Dissipate nerf: DE nerfs everything except what should be nerfed because theyve designed themselves into a corner, creatively and financially

[TeaHands]

8 minutes ago, (NSW)squirtpig said:

Lol alright bud, agree to disagree I guess. Idk how to argue against a high threshold for low quality game design but im glad you can enjoy it. Cheers!

Sorry reasonable changes to obviously broken items in a game is too much for you. Toodeloo!

[BIGF0O7]

1 minute ago, TomCruisesSon said:

Sorry reasonable changes to obviously broken items in a game is too much for you. Toodeloo!

Enjoy your bramma wukong for clearing brain dead ai mobs until you’re in your 40s. Wish i could, but regretably i like when games dont suck :/. Ah well, glad at least one of us is having fun!

[vanaukas]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)squirtpig said:

Yes i absolutely can, because i dont need to maintain energy at the rate i could with dissipate before the changes in any content *except* high enemy density content. Now I cant. Thats the problem. Spammable doesnt mean broken, especially when spamming comes with quite a few risks unique to high enemy density content, be it acolytes or multiple eximus or any of the other threats that can one shot operator, and in turn one shot your frame on transference static. This is different than say most nuking weapons or frames where if you screw up, just recast/fire again to correct for your error and you’re absolutely fine. 

You can't be killed in void mode and warframes are 100% invulnerable to damage on transference unless they are using an energy drain ability active, in that case they'll have 90% DR. Spamming Dissipate was far from "risky". 

If you think that getting those huge ammounts of energy by just spamming the arcane in 2 seconds is not broken then we have a completely different definition of "broken". Even energize, your example of "broken" is more balanced: 15s of cooldown, is not guaranteed and gives only 150 extra energy. Dissipate was done at your will, guaranteed, spammable, no cooldowns and zero risk if you know what are you doing.

[Awazx]

First: everything in this game is a "press this button to win".

Second: I don't remember what is "dissipate" is and I don't give a S#&$. I only see another post that asks for "nerf X, Y, N" because DE nerfed his favorite toy and now it's time to punish others: "...if I can't have fun, no one else will."

It is because of people like you who are grown-up and level-headed on these forums that the game is going from bad to worse. Probably a lot of the nerfs that ruined the fun of so many players in the past would never have happened if DE hadn't listened to that noisy minority you're a part of asking for nerfs IN A PVE GAME.

And now go somewhere else where you're allowed to spoil other people's fun, genius.

[Tyreaus]

9 minutes ago, Josh486 said:

Dissipate is still really good. I don’t get the big issue, it did sort of need a nerf considering how easy it is to use. While I agree that other stuff needs it too, I doubt DE wants to nerf AOE weapons at this point, even if it would be healthy for the game

FWIW, I think part of it is that there wasn't any counter-balance to give the appearance of re-balancing. For example, had they upped the energy per mote to 15, sure you probably wouldn't get as much energy once you crunch the numbers, but at least it would fit with the "tweaking to remove spam-based optimization" basis.

That and their statement that they needed to do it to keep Zenurik relevant doesn't sit well with a lot of people. The Focus rework plus Dissipate arcane was viewed as getting out of the Zenurik meta, which was noted by several over the years as being the poster boy for Warframe's shoddy energy economy. So for the developers to even hint toward going backwards is...icky, to say the least.

I don't think the mechanical changes are a huge issue either. Admittedly I would prefer an emphasis of Dissipate being a "get more energy less often" option, like an emergency button when getting slapped by a Leech eximus, to contrast and complement Zenurik's more passive energy generation over time. But the way it got presented and the rationale behind it was not well done.

(Also, albeit just my opinion, I think there's a flaw in how the efficacy of the arcane is dependent on enemy density. Being able to spam it effectively compensated for low enemy density: if most of the group you were targeting gets atomized by a squadmate, no biggie, just throw the laser in there a few times to siphon from the few stragglers left. Without that compensation, it feels like it should have some sort of tweak to fill that shortfall. Like more energy per mote, for example.)

[TeaHands]

8 minutes ago, (NSW)squirtpig said:

Enjoy your bramma wukong for clearing brain dead ai mobs until you’re in your 40s. Wish i could, but regretably i like when games dont suck :/. Ah well, glad at least one of us is having fun!

Oh we got a salty sailor.

And it's hilarious how dead wrong you are. But that seems to be a common theme when you get angy 😠 

[(PSN)pedrochass2005]

8 minutes ago, (NSW)squirtpig said:

Buddy, im not gonna rewrite my entire post but I very clearly laid out the distinction between stuff that should be nerfed and dissipate. Your argument is basically “you say you want less forrest fires, yet you cry when you cant use your stove. Curious!” Like, No offense but your take is very, very bad

What you fail to see it that to the aoe meta players their nuking is also just a stove, your distintion betwenn stuff that should be nerfed and dissipate is that you like one and dislike the other, the same kind of arguments you use to  defend dissipate would be applied to defend these things, you migth be right about dissipate balancement,but you decided to expose your opinion in the most childlike way just like aoe meta defenders would, you are shouting about forest fire while disposing trash in the water

[BIGF0O7]

10 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

You can't be killed in void mode and warframes are 100% invulnerable to damage on transference unless they are using an energy drain ability active, in that case they'll have 90% DR. Spamming Dissipate was far from "risky". 

If you think that getting those huge ammounts of energy by just spamming the arcane in 2 seconds is not broken then we have a completely different definition of "broken". Even energize, your example of "broken" is more balanced: 15s of cooldown, is not guaranteed and gives only 150 extra energy. Dissipate was done at your will, guaranteed, spammable, no cooldowns and zero risk if you know what are you doing.

The only frames that its really useful for are precisely frames with toggled abilities, and unless you’re just running origin system hydron runs, you should know that 90%dr doesnt mean anything when enemies are doing enough damage to one shot you 10 times over. Hell, even Harry can one shot on transference static. 
 

Again, void mode runs out. I kinda feel like you didnt actually use dissipate that much because unless you’re just standing in the middle of enemies in an infinite loop of dissipate energy orbs for operator, ideally you would be a few meters away outside of the range of dissipate, specifically so that your operator isnt sucking up the motes that you’re trying to generate for your warframe. Im trying to do this process as quickly as possible so i can jump back in my frame, get the energy and continue killing stuff.  Because of that, again, vode mode runs out, and in that moment, operator is extremely vulnerable, thus making my frame vulnerable. 

[BIGF0O7]

5 minutes ago, Awazx said:

 

Second: I don't remember what "dissipate" 

[BIGF0O7]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)pedrochass2005 said:

What you fail to see it that to the aoe meta players their nuking is also just a stove, your distintion betwenn stuff that should be nerfed and dissipate is that you like one and dislike the other, the same kind of arguments you use to  defend dissipate would be applied to defend these things, you migth be right about dissipate balancement,but you decided to expose your opinion in the most childlike way just like aoe meta defenders would, you are shouting about forest fire while disposing trash in the water

Just…no lol

[Gamma745]

27 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

I may remind you that the cooldown of 1.5s is on the same enemy, not the rest.

Decided to check the patchnotes for this. Let's just say, this complaint just went from "maybe understandable" to "pathetic" in my eyes.

[TheLexiConArtist]

Where:
{Mechanic A} being abstractly 400% of the desired 'balance'
{Mechanic B} being abstractly 200% of the desired 'balance'

Then:
The existence of A does not mean that B is balanced.
The existence of A does not mean B cannot be resolved if A is not resolved first.

[ReddyDisco]

Didn't use it myself much, glad i sold r5 dissipate sets before the nerf

[Vortex]

1 hour ago, (NSW)squirtpig said:

Bramma needs a nerf. Plasmor needs a nerf. Ignis needs a nerf. Wukong needs a nerf. Saryn needs a nerf. Xaku needs a nerf. 

Anything that is “press button to win” needs a nerf. Dissipate was not press button to win. It was easy to screw up, and a huge security risk in high level content if you didnt time your use of it right. It did not need a nerf.
 

 

I don't think so, this is what keep Warframe alive actually.

The most fun games are those that you explode horders while trying to stay alive, no one want to play your single target fantasy.

[vanaukas]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)squirtpig said:

The only frames that its really useful for are precisely frames with toggled abilities, and unless you’re just running origin system hydron runs, you should know that 90%dr doesnt mean anything when enemies are doing enough damage to one shot you 10 times over. Hell, even Harry can one shot on transference static. 

Eh first off, everything in the game, including railjack is on "origin system". You may be refering to the regular star chart.

Second, about the DR, I was just pointing out that you can, in fact, deactivate your draining ability if you aren't able to survive for a few seconds on transference, which seems to be your issue. 100% DR means a lot for any kind of damage, right?

[BIGF0O7]

8 minutes ago, TomCruisesSon said:

Oh we got a salty sailor.

And it's hilarious how dead wrong you are. But that seems to be a common theme when you get angy 😠 

My god youre annoying. But nah im definitely right about my criticisms, and anyone thats ever played any other video game besides warframe—most of which quit because they come to similar conclusions, which in summary can be described as “this game sucks”—likely agrees with me because they’re not brown nose try hards who feel compelled to defend a notoriously incompetent studio—especially among even their own playerbase—because the thought that the thing they like is actually pretty dumb is understandably a bit too much to handle for players who are similarly notorious for being cultish in their devotion to said game, lacking any identity outside of that game for whatever reason. Enjoy your mediocrity

[BIGF0O7]

4 minutes ago, Vortex said:

I don't think so, this is what keep Warframe alive actually.

The most fun games are those that you explode horders while trying to stay alive, no one want to play your single target fantasy.

Yeah clearing mobs of brain dead ai certainly scratches an itch if you’re generally bad at video games. If only mob shooters traditionally had pretty intensive enemy ai to make the otherwise repetitive game play interesting, then maybe id have a point in saying that warframe’s design is increasingly lazy and broken. Oh wait…

[Pakaku]

44 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

fun fact: the reason why people use zenurik is because warframe's energy economy is garbage. without zenurik or energize, you don't get to use abilities. that's why people use them. it was a good thing that something is better than zenurik. if they wanted people to use the other schools they need to either make energy economy better or revert emergence dissipate to how it was before.

yeah sure some frames like limbo garuda and harrow can counter it but limbo needs to afk in the rift, garuda needs to sacrifice half her health, and harrow needs energy to even do it

I like Harrow's method because it requires some thinking ahead. Once you get into the loop, it's really really hard to run out of energy.

Meanwhile I'm running Zenurik on my Hildryn because the idea of giving everyone else energy is just too good to pass up even if I don't need any myself.

[RichardKam]

1.5 seconds delay is really......nothing. As long as it allows me to break away from energize or zenurik, dissipate is still an excellent choice. 

And I don't like spamming.  

And Saryn does not need a nerf. Anyone saying Saryn need a nerf spends too much time in Sedna Hydron. 

Com'on, seriously, people should stop over-reacting. 

[TeaHands]

11 minutes ago, (NSW)squirtpig said:

My god youre annoying. But nah im definitely right about my criticisms, and anyone thats ever played any other video game besides warframe—most of which quit because they come to similar conclusions, which in summary can be described as “this game sucks”—likely agrees with me because they’re not brown nose try hards who feel compelled to defend a notoriously incompetent studio—especially among even their own playerbase—because the thought that the thing they like is actually pretty dumb is understandably a bit too much to handle for players who are similarly notorious for being cultish in their devotion to said game, lacking any identity outside of that game for whatever reason. Enjoy your mediocrity

Again, it is astounding how consistently wrong you are.

It's funny because there's problems with the game I agree with you on in terms of brain dead AoE meta and frames that encourage afk gameplay. But me pointing out that this one Arcane is still in a good place absolutely triggered you and got you trying to label me all sorts of ways.

You are way beyond tilted.

[nslay]

Well, you got lots of other options without needing to use now-clunky Zenurik (it's clunky compared to just Void Dash for the effect). You could use Equilibrium + Synth Mods... use a Sentinel with Gas damage or use Swipe on a Kavat to spread the Synth effect efficiently. The Sentinel only pairs well with CC frames that can keep enemies occupied and not shooting at the Sentinel. A good choice for a Sentinel would be Dethcube Prime for its energy-generating augment and tankiness. You could use Helminth to give yourself something like Dispensary or Spectorage with Spectrosiphon augment. You could sacrifice some Warframe stats to use Fleeting Expertise. You could use Syndicate weapons that generate energy. Or use a combination of some of these for redundancy.

I'm mostly using Naramon, Unairu and Madurai these days. Energy has been trivial to come by without Zenurik for around a couple years now.

[BIGF0O7]

4 minutes ago, TomCruisesSon said:

Again, it is astounding how consistently wrong you are.

It's funny because there's problems with the game I agree with you on in terms of brain dead AoE meta and frames that encourage afk gameplay. But me pointing out that this one Arcane is still in a good place absolutely triggered you and got you trying to label me all sorts of ways.

You are way beyond tilted.

Yes, again, you are extremely annoying. All you’ve offered in the entirety of our exchange is, essentially, “nuh uh”. Why would I be nice to you lol? 

[Karsaros]

22 minutes ago, Vortex said:

I don't think so, this is what keep Warframe alive actually.

The most fun games are those that you explode horders while trying to stay alive, no one want to play your single target fantasy.

I feel personally attacked by this, while at the same time completely proves my point, players go AOE because its easy and brainless.

[BIGF0O7]

6 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

1.5 seconds delay is really......nothing. As long as it allows me to break away from energize or zenurik, dissipate is still an excellent choice. 

And I don't like spamming.  

And Saryn does not need a nerf. Anyone saying Saryn need a nerf spends too much time in Sedna Hydron. 

Com'on, seriously, people should stop over-reacting. 

1.5 second cooldown is absolutely not nothing, especially in the only situations where dissipate was actually useful, like high enemy density content that now nets a fraction of what it did before in 5 times as long of a time frame as it used to.

[TheLexiConArtist]

6 minutes ago, nslay said:

You could use Equilibrium + Synth Mods... use a Sentinel with Gas damage or use Swipe on a Kavat to spread the Synth effect efficiently.

Honestly, as much as I disagree with the current combat state of the new Eximi, the fact they now drop 1 energy and 2 health orbs guaranteed is pretty nice. Add Equilibrium to that and that's a reasonable chunk of energy dropped each time you pop one. At least if you're comparing it against Zenurik, you've got what, 16 seconds of the passive generation with a single kill?