The impact AoE nerf could have

[Lutesque]

15 hours ago, Cyber_Kitten said:

I mean, I would gladly have some more "difficult" content in Warframe. But I believe that the way Warframe was made mechanically makes it almost impossible for it to have a balanced experience with tough content.

Even if it was Possible.... Making things harder does automatically make the game more fun....

15 hours ago, Cyber_Kitten said:

 

You have to take in consideration that every player is at a different level in terms of how powerful they are. How are they going to make difficult and challenging content for everybody?

Matthew Matosis made a similar Observation in his Dark Souls Commentary and suggested that everything in your Loadout should be Assigned a Value Bases on how powerful it is.... 

This could work for Warframe.... Everything in your Loadout will be Evaluated based on how Powerful it is and then the Mission will simply Scale based on that Value....

11 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

• If your Warframe dies in a mission, its permanent. You won't ever get to play with them again.
• Kubrows and Kavats have a 50 percent chance to randomly attack you, in mission but also on the Orbiter. 
• Game will randomly add Steel Path modifiers to non Steel Path missions. 
• Rivens can now have as many negative stats as positive, but also, the stats are no longer displayed. You just got to figure them out in game. 
• Enemy modding. You can now mod enemies with Galvanised Mods, Weapon Arcanes, Umbra Mods, on kill buffs. Now your weaker team mates are a liability. 
• Shadow Stalker, now just stalks you. No attacking, no confrontation, they will just quietly follow you around and take peeks at you. Whose that in that Grineer tunnel on the other side of the Tile Set? Why is Mesa missing a boot? 

👀 !!!

 

[MutoManiac]

I started around July 2021 playing WF. I found it plenty hard in the beginning mostly playing solo. Maybe the ones saying it's too easy always play in a squad? I consider myself an average player that needs help from time to time for things like high level sisters. At some point I'll figure out a way to defeat the level 5 ones by myself. I find that's the attraction, seeing yourself progress and figuring out what you need to do. For those that find it too easy, you have mastered the game after thousands of hours, is that not enough? I remember Call of Duty 4 (the first Modern Warfare) lasted a total of four hours and that was it. That game will go down as one of the best games ever released and to repeat, it was four hours long.

When I want to try a new weapon and like it enough, I go to Hydron as for me, it's the fastest way to level. I don't take my other best weapons and turn off my sentinel's assault mod so it doesn't kill everything instead. Unless I'm leveling a frame, I don't even use abilities, I enjoy seeing how others play, see if I'm interested in getting the frame they use and if they ask for help, there is always someone to offer good advice. The community is what makes the game strong.

Like some here have said, use more fun builds and play whatever you want. DE made SP level 9999 just for those that want it. The rest of us want a fun game and WF delivers it by a lot, bugs and all. I keep trying things like Destiny 2, but they pale in comparison, feels like the game play is stuck in the 90s and WF is so much better at everything. Maybe I'm still in the honeymoon stage, but I'm loving every minute of it.

[Zimzala]

31 minutes ago, m_a_r_c_h_ said:

I started around July 2021 playing WF. I found it plenty hard in the beginning mostly playing solo. Maybe the ones saying it's too easy always play in a squad? I consider myself an average player that needs help from time to time for things like high level sisters. At some point I'll figure out a way to defeat the level 5 ones by myself. I find that's the attraction, seeing yourself progress and figuring out what you need to do. For those that find it too easy, you have mastered the game after thousands of hours, is that not enough? I remember Call of Duty 4 (the first Modern Warfare) lasted a total of four hours and that was it. That game will go down as one of the best games ever released and to repeat, it was four hours long.

When I want to try a new weapon and like it enough, I go to Hydron as for me, it's the fastest way to level. I don't take my other best weapons and turn off my sentinel's assault mod so it doesn't kill everything instead. Unless I'm leveling a frame, I don't even use abilities, I enjoy seeing how others play, see if I'm interested in getting the frame they use and if they ask for help, there is always someone to offer good advice. The community is what makes the game strong.

Like some here have said, use more fun builds and play whatever you want. DE made SP level 9999 just for those that want it. The rest of us want a fun game and WF delivers it by a lot, bugs and all. I keep trying things like Destiny 2, but they pale in comparison, feels like the game play is stuck in the 90s and WF is so much better at everything. Maybe I'm still in the honeymoon stage, but I'm loving every minute of it.

One of Us ... One of Us ... One of Us ...

[Dunkelheit]

Am 1.1.2022 um 21:11 schrieb George_PPS:

We always hear about players wanting the game to be harder, here are some solid and real solutions that work instantly and every time:

1. Play Solo
2. Equip just 6, 5 or even 4 Mods for every items in your loadouts.
3. Use the weakest elemental damages types against each faction. 
  For example, equip full magnetic damage types in all weapons in Grineer missions.
4. Rank essential Mods to just 60%.
5. Use only the most obscure abilities of every warframe in all missions. 

Please feel free to add more advice and recommendations to help these players. 

Here is another idea:
If you want to play a brainless smashfest, why not regulate yourself and only play on Earth against lvl 5 enemies? Why is it only the challenge crew that should regulate themselves when you can do it yourself? Look at how fun that is.

[(NSW)Greybones]

7 hours ago, m_a_r_c_h_ said:

I started around July 2021 playing WF. I found it plenty hard in the beginning mostly playing solo. Maybe the ones saying it's too easy always play in a squad? I consider myself an average player that needs help from time to time for things like high level sisters. At some point I'll figure out a way to defeat the level 5 ones by myself. I find that's the attraction, seeing yourself progress and figuring out what you need to do. For those that find it too easy, you have mastered the game after thousands of hours, is that not enough? I remember Call of Duty 4 (the first Modern Warfare) lasted a total of four hours and that was it. That game will go down as one of the best games ever released and to repeat, it was four hours long.

When I want to try a new weapon and like it enough, I go to Hydron as for me, it's the fastest way to level. I don't take my other best weapons and turn off my sentinel's assault mod so it doesn't kill everything instead. Unless I'm leveling a frame, I don't even use abilities, I enjoy seeing how others play, see if I'm interested in getting the frame they use and if they ask for help, there is always someone to offer good advice. The community is what makes the game strong.

Like some here have said, use more fun builds and play whatever you want. DE made SP level 9999 just for those that want it. The rest of us want a fun game and WF delivers it by a lot, bugs and all. I keep trying things like Destiny 2, but they pale in comparison, feels like the game play is stuck in the 90s and WF is so much better at everything. Maybe I'm still in the honeymoon stage, but I'm loving every minute of it.

Fun builds all the way 👍 ; I’d hate to be doing the same thing on repeat and not have fun in a videogame

[PrimalordialBob]

Steel path already exists for those desiring a challenge. If they want harder they can put on some dragon keys or lessen the strength of their build

[Lutesque]

12 hours ago, m_a_r_c_h_ said:

I started around July 2021 playing WF. I found it plenty hard in the beginning mostly playing solo. Maybe the ones saying it's too easy always play in a squad?

Yeah it was in November I think when I started.... It was the holidays and Fortuna just launched so plenty of people were online and Finding Squads was Easy... 

Basically I got Carried Everywhere 😎 !!!!

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

5 hours ago, PrimalordialBob said:

Steel path already exists for those desiring a challenge. If they want harder they can put on some dragon keys or lessen the strength of their build

A slightly bizarre problem that seems to be rearing its head is I’m not sure players seem to know how to lessen the strength of their build and still make it through fights, like building for a level 50 sortie or level 70 Requiem relic crack or a level 30 Nightmare

🤔 I’m not entirely certain, mind. But it kind of feels like players mainly know how to build to make the fight easy, or go completely modless. In between the two seems a bit of a mystery

[Zimzala]

8 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

Here is another idea:
If you want to play a brainless smashfest, why not regulate yourself and only play on Earth against lvl 5 enemies? Why is it only the challenge crew that should regulate themselves when you can do it yourself? Look at how fun that is.

Because that's not how the game is built, it's called "playing the hand you are dealt".

I fight lower level enemies all the time for mindless smash fest now.

Within the current framework, if you have beaten the game, then your only form of challenge revolves around you own effort to make that challenge.

How is this not obvious?

[Metalgearfox]

It's not really a numbers issue. If you can CC chain enemies endlessly, then they are just bullet sponges.

The bosses in New War are perfect examples of how to make the enemies better. They have actual mechanics that you can deal with by taking actions to avoid them / end them / deal with them.
A lancer with beeg health isn't actually harder than a lancer with smol health.

[Dunkelheit]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Zimzala:

Because that's not how the game is built, it's called "playing the hand you are dealt".

I fight lower level enemies all the time for mindless smash fest now.

Within the current framework, if you have beaten the game, then your only form of challenge revolves around you own effort to make that challenge.

How is this not obvious?

Maybe because it is not obvious?

I can easily create challenges as a developer and the tech is already in game. Let me make an example:

Steel Path Sortie:
Weapon = MK-1 Braton
Frame = Harrow, Grendel, Hydro and Yareli
Modifier = Grineer mission

There you go, it is within the current framework and it poses very much a challenge.

I have written this in 30 seconds and not thought it through till the end, so do me a favor and do not turn it around by nitpicking my choices. I hope you understand what I was going for.

Warframe has a couple of problems, which makes creating challenges hard:

- Arcane Energize
- AOE weapons
- exploits of shield gating via Dragon Key
- Primed Sure Footed

Take those away and creating a challenge is easy.

[Zimzala]

23 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

Maybe because it is not obvious?

I can easily create challenges as a developer and the tech is already in game. Let me make an example:

No you cannot, you are not a developer and no, you do not get to decide what is 'easy' either.

You have the control over your playtime.

If you choose to give up that self agency to a game maker to define your fun, that's your choice, but there is no onus on others to make things fun for you, that's your problem to solve.

So, the game works the way it works, you can choose to work within the confines of the game to make your own fun, or not, still your choice.

Just don't use things that you think make the game too easy or too hard from your POV.

Self Agency, Self Control.

[(NSW)Greybones]

6 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

Warframe has a couple of problems, which makes creating challenges hard:

- Arcane Energize
- AOE weapons
- exploits of shield gating via Dragon Key
- Primed Sure Footed

Take those away and creating a challenge is easy.

You don’t need to not use these options, but instead you can use them with different combinations. They’re not superpowered in and of themselves. Take any of these by themselves and see how far they get on their own, then add on to them until the desired results are achieved by building from the ground up; there’s no need to stop using them, but be aware of what using them alongside other options does. It can make the game easy or hard depending on what the other options are and where they’re used, and it doesn’t take Steel Path to have a hard game.

(Personally I hate the shieldgate crutch, not even because it’s basically an exploit, but because it’s being treated as “This is the only way to survive” by so many players)

[Lutesque]

7 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

Warframe has a couple of problems, which makes creating challenges hard:

- Arcane Energize
- AOE weapons
- exploits of shield gating via Dragon Key
- Primed Sure Footed

Take those away and creating a challenge is easy.

Not quite.... Take those away and people will move on to The Next Meta...

You'l be going through quite a few layers before you finally reach a Point where things Actually are Challenging.... And even when you do.... The game would just be boring due to a lack of Variety.... In other words..... Dog Days.... 👀

 

[Loza03]

On 2022-01-03 at 4:27 PM, Numerikuu said:

...Also man, Iceborne was hands down one of the best game DLCs to have released in a long time. It was a love letter to all Monster Hunter fans imo. Here's to hoping Capcom release another World-like in the future 🤎

This post in particular is older, but I want to touch on Iceborne/World and also Rise because they also bring up something really important about the Warframe and difficulty  debate.

World, Iceborne, and Rise are, themselves, a lot easier than their predecessors, even going beyond things like quality of life. They offer free item restocks and powerful abilities and free instances of really big damage. However, they're beloved both by the more casual audience that they fostered and most of the older fans (myself technically included, even though I only hopped on in 4U) because what these games lost in intense difficulty, they made up for with mechanical interest. MH4U's Shagaru Magala was tougher than Narwa by a long shot. But Narwa remained an incredibly engaging final boss because of how dynamic the whole fight is because it makes full use of the wirebug to introduce a 3D environment with attacks that require you to use that.

By contrast, Warframe's reduction in difficulty usually comes with a reduction in the need to use its mechanics. You don't need to Parkour, or manage health and energy, or in some cases, even employ basic action game principles like spacing, timing and aim, and one of the other big complaints has been that Warframe doesn't fully capitalise on the new mechanics it introduces.

 

Difficulty is little more than a means to this end and it is by no means the only way to achieve it. Whilst most any way that increasing the interactions with Warframes mechanics both core and secondary will almost certainly involve a respective increase in difficulty, those aren't inherently bound together, and Warframe doesn't exactly need to become 'I wanna be the Dark Souls in a Dwarf Fortress' to be able to engage its mechanics and audience.

[Lutesque]

2 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

By contrast, Warframe's reduction in difficulty usually comes with a reduction in the need to use its mechanics. You don't need to Parkour, or manage health and energy, or in some cases, even employ basic action game principles like spacing, timing and aim, and one of the other big complaints has been that Warframe doesn't fully capitalise on the new mechanics it introduces.

If DE or anybody else has a problem with that then maybe they should make Managing Health/Energy more Fun and Pakour more consistent....

It's Natural for people not to want to use Something if it feels like no Effort was put in to it.... I mean seriously.... 25 Energy for RNG Orbs.... How long has this game being going on for and RNG orbs are still worth only 25 Energy.... 👀

 

[Orokin]

Wow, great idea. In fact, I should have just not farmed anything at all and just used the starter gear. 

Here are some more ideas:

1. Play on the minimum mouse sensitivity so you have to work harder to aim at enemies
2. Instead of using your keyboard normally, press a random key every second
3. Turn your monitor brightness and in-game brightness to the minimum
4. Limit your fps to around 10

[Loza03]

16 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

If DE or anybody else has a problem with that then maybe they should make Managing Health/Energy more Fun and Pakour more consistent....

It's Natural for people not to want to use Something if it feels like no Effort was put in to it.... I mean seriously.... 25 Energy for RNG Orbs.... How long has this game being going on for and RNG orbs are still worth only 25 Energy.... 👀

 

I mean... yeah, absolutely.

 

Warframe has an undercurrent of being brutally unforgiving. It's just lost beneath the overtones of it being a complete no effort ride. The fact it's loaded with hitscan being another example - hitscan can't be 'dodged' in the traditional sense, you can only put RNG in your favour. Sometimes no matter how hard you try or how skilled you are, you get hit because the game rolled a dice and got a nat 20.

[Lutesque]

23 minutes ago, Orokin said:

Wow, great idea. In fact, I should have just not farmed anything at all and just used the starter gear. 

That's The Spirit... 😉 !!!

4 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

 

Warframe has an undercurrent of being brutally unforgiving. It's just lost beneath the overtones of it being a complete no effort ride. The fact it's loaded with hitscan being another example - hitscan can't be 'dodged' in the traditional sense, you can only put RNG in your favour. Sometimes no matter how hard you try or how skilled you are, you get hit because the game rolled a dice and got a nat 20

I feel like there is literally no escape from RNG.... It's just Oozing out of every crevice in this game....

[Dunkelheit]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb Lutesque:

Not quite.... Take those away and people will move on to The Next Meta...

You'l be going through quite a few layers before you finally reach a Point where things Actually are Challenging.... And even when you do.... The game would just be boring due to a lack of Variety.... In other words..... Dog Days.... 👀

 

Let me make it a bit slower for you and write it more abstract:

There are a couple of things which can kill a player:
1. if you are being CC chained
2. One super strong enemy who can outlive the dmg he gets while dishing out punishment
3. A big horde of enemies that overwhelm the player
4. lack of energy / ammunition
5. Lack of healing (you can slowly be whittled down)

Those problems have been taken care of by DE and thus it is nigh impossible to die in the game, making it really hard to challenge people. There is no super strong enemy, the hordes that can overwhelm you are taken care of by AOE weapons, you cannot be CCed due to PSF and it is really hard to run out of energy. I still remember times when Trinity was a must have in every group that went against harder content.

Try it yourself... use Harrow and single target weapons and look how easy SP is. Can't wait for the next meta then and the layers :)

[Lutesque]

10 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

Those problems have been taken care of by DE and thus it is nigh impossible to die in the game, making it really hard to challenge people.

You're basing this off your own Personal Immortal Build.... Not on what everyone else uses....

As someone who doesn't Spam Energy Restores... Abuse Shield Gating... And uses Single Target Weapons sometimes.... I die plenty....

Hell... I'm Dying right now.... 👀

13 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

There is no super strong enemy, the hordes that can overwhelm you are taken care of by AOE weapons, you cannot be CCed due to PSF and it is really hard to run out of energy.

You only have yourself to blame ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.... 

If you don't like it... Don't use it....

[(NSW)Greybones]

15 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

You only have yourself to blame ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.... 

If you don't like it... Don't use it....

Either that, or it might be worth trying it in a different configuration, @Dunkelheit.

If perpetual energy plus overtuned AoE plus PSF = snoozeville for you, what’s an alternative arrangement of factors, mods, weapons, etc.? (can involve overtuned AoE or PSF or perpetual energy if so preferred)

[ushull]

Mmm if you want the game more hard, play without mods, with all 4 dragonkeys equiped, no pet for vacumm and in sp mode.

[pantophage]

there's always cries for more difficult gameplay but whenever anything complex gets added people whine until it is easy.
arbitrations-you can now revive
steel path-enemies were nerfed
railjack- team mechanics removed
TNW- archons and drifter segments are super complained about even though its all explained on screen

point blank, if warframe wants challenge, it needs enemies with mechanics and better AI. no amount of damage or HP scaling will ever equate to real challenge since players can be functionally immortal and pump out damage like no other. unfortunately mos players hate whenever there is any degree of those. Eidolons and other open world bosses are widely despised and they have very very simple mechanics and heavily telegraphed attacks. until players come to accept mechanics as a part of difficulty, there will be no challenge that DE will implement and keep

 

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, pantophage said:

there's always cries for more difficult gameplay but whenever anything complex gets added people whine until it is easy.

PREACH !!! 

1 hour ago, pantophage said:

Eidolons and other open world bosses are widely despised and they have very very simple mechanics and heavily telegraphed attacks.

No they're not....

The Terralyst's Sprinklers are Not Telegraphed... And even if they were... You can't avoid them Anyway.... Pretty much all of the Hydrolyst's Bull $@#& is not Telegraphed ..... The Rain... The Orbs.... It all comes out of No Where....