Limbo and the players who use him are the absolute worst.

[--Leyenda-yight6]

En 19/2/2023 a las 0:48, gamingchair1121 dijo:

only if you don't know how the rift works

I use limbo in defenses and excavations, but it is true that it is too disruptive: I only use number 1 on defense objectives in raids because if I use it on an ally they will insult me, my family and my ancestors hahaha, number 2 It's fine to use it with 4 as long as it has a low range because if not after a while I find myself alone in the squad, and I replace 3 with helminth, it's difficult to use and exaggeratedly disruptive, as if it had been created for that purpose.

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

My current issue with Limbo is that his abilities are no longer strong enough at what they do.

For example I was working the Archon Interception this week with a limbo player.

The issue we kept running into was that they would cast cataclysm on the point while were were in the process of clearing out enemies.

A solid strategy if they had waited for it to be fully clear.  But usually it would slow the process down.  And in a couple of occasions assisted the enemies in survival to capture/keep the point.  As sentients will resist and eximus are immune. 

He's in need of a rework to be in line with the games current mechanics. 

[gamingchair1121]

13 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

With our polite Limbo shielding the defense objective, now I can’t clear the point from a distance because of the rift.  Sure, my abilities will go through, but my abilities are only one part of my arsenal. Limbo has effectively limited the rest.

yeah but whatever is in the rift is also going to be affected by stasis, so its not going to be able to do anything

even if its an eximus, the limbo kinda has to have something that can kill them

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

On 2/15/2023 at 6:58 AM, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Limbo is AMAZING !

Some players can be a problem, and this is not only a Limbo problem : Frost players casting Snow Globe mindlessy, Wisp players with those Reservoirs,, Volt players with Speed (at least we can get rid of it... till the next cast), Slow Nova on Defense Missions (making it last much longer), Styanax players recharging shields when you want to benefit from the Augur set mods...

If Limbo needs a rework because some players don't know how to play it well, so almost every single frame also need a rework.

Theyre far less of a problem than limbo so no not really. If they need a rework its only to 1 ability, and that 1 ability aint harming too much.

Try to troll with Frost, Volt, Wisp, etc, then go do that crud with limbo. Doing so will show you just how much more disruptipve to gameplay a limbo can be than the other frames you brought up, and will help you to understand why this post isnt bringing them up

 

Like im a person who likes trolling here and there, all frames i troll with people usually found ways to work around me, but with Limbo??? I can legit break the game and force my entire team to sit in time out. I can even make them fail the mission if enemies are tanky enough and i have no teammates with damage abilities.

Limbo's is the king of disrupting gameplay. Scale to 1 to 10 he can rest at a solid 8/10, it can get really really bad

Wisp can be the 2nd worst, but her disruption is only like a 5/10, just gotta move around to get your kills, shes like a slow Nova.

Volt 2/10 and Frost is like a 4/10, they can be annoying but they arent gonna break the game much. You can still play like normal for the most part. I was sure a chilling globe frost at enemy spawn points would get someone to straight face me but as long as players could kill, they seemed not to care too much. There were many times where we'd hit 5 waves in a defense mission, and my WHOLE random squad wanted to go to wave 10. Not sure if they really just didnt want to give me attention and knew thats what i was looking for from the troll, or if the troll just wasnt bad enough 

Volts troll almost laughable, i find more players loving my speed boost than hating it, its rare i find a hater 

[AegidiusF]

Le 22/02/2023 à 06:33, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim a dit :

Volts troll almost laughable, i find more players loving my speed boost than hating it, its rare i find a hater 

Just look at this forum and you'll find a bunch of threads asking for a way to not get Volt's and Wisp speed buff. Some players use it to troll and recast as soon as they see you get rid of it.

Again, frames are ok, but players can really be disruptive.

[A-Flying-Brick]

I'm not saying other frames can't be disruptive, but you can still play when those frames are being disruptive. Limbo can make you completely unable to play if they wish.

Players are always going to be disruptive and toxic, the best thing to do is not give them the tools to ruin the game for others. Limbo is that tool. He is a tool that in the wrong hands makes you unable to play.

Some people here don't see anything wrong with that and roll out the old "it's not the frame, only the people who play him" or "but x and y frames are disruptive too", it's tiresome and ultimately making the situation worse. Limbo is just as much the problem as the jerks who use him to troll. His kit is beyond outdated and obnoxious to be around. As I've pointed out even when they don't spam Banish, they will spam Catacysm which makes it difficult to play. Not just because of the laundry list of changes but because of the ever shrinking space. I'll line up a shot of something that's in the effect, only for it to shrink just enough to block my shot. It's frustrating and should not be a thing.

[Qriist]

 

 

On 2/18/2023 at 7:37 AM, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

The inability to shoot through it only just forces you to move a bit (inside, outside) just like when you're outside Frost SnowGlobe (that prevents all your shot to go through).

On 2/17/2023 at 5:14 AM, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

I understand your position, but Cataclysm is as disruptive as Frost Snow Globe.

Cataclysm has not the potential to prevent the squad members to continue playing. It has a duration, it's range decreases over time and everybody can move inside and outside of it.

Perhaps if you mention a specific situation in which Cataclysm was used to grief you, I will be able to undrestand.

Over Discord, a buddy and I were running a Corpus Steel Path relic mission last night mostly so he could test his Gyre build with the new augment, but also so he could run the vaulted relic he couldn't trade to me due to crossplay. I was running my well-tested Nezha and a proper loadout of weapons. The squad was open so a rando playing Limbo joined us within the first couple minutes. The goal was to crack his small stash of this particular relic and go. Shouldn't have taken very long at all.

The goal was drastically impeded by the Limbo player, who kept dropping high range+duration cataclysms and leaving the excavator unattended. Running to the excavator to protect it was made more difficult by the inability to shoot across the boundary. Fair point that in this one, very specific way Cataclysm is similar to snow globe. Things get worse from here, however.

If he wasn't doing that then he'd drop a Cataclysm on an active excavator that was already being defended. Eximus are immune to rift shenanigans so they were happily deleting excavators before we could find and reach them outside the rift - never mind the fact that they were coming from multiple directions so it was extremely likely the one you killed outside the rift had a brother from another mother on the opposite side. Plus, leaving the rift to find the Eximus meant all the other enemies could swarm the excavator. The inability to shoot from inside to the outside is not similar to snow globe and is significantly more disruptive to everyone else.

You seem like an experienced player who has been around for a while so I'll ask you this: did you know that excavation missions can be two entire relic cracks in without extraction becoming available? Did you? Cool if you did. I personally learned that last night. It turns out, you need to 100% at least a single excavator before Lotus lets you bring your goodies home.

The Limbo player was making extraction itself impossible and refused to stop dropping cataclysms when we both asked. It wasn't until he got bored that he stopped what he was doing, but even still he was insulting us the entire time during extraction. My buddy and I were laughing while the Limbo was cussing us out in typoed slurs that got around the chat censors. I don't care about naughty words and I love flame wars - because they are inconsequential, ephemeral.

The Limbo's actions though? Those were directly detrimental to my gameplay experience. Those actions were only possible because Limbo has a kit that's very poorly integrated into the entirety of Warframe.

I despise Volt's uncontrollable speed boosts while i'm playing Titania but I'd happily squad up next to 45 simulateous Volts in the same mission before I play with a Limbo player like that again.

On 2/15/2023 at 12:40 PM, A-Flying-Brick said:

the problem is many Limbo players know it's disruptive and don't care.

At this point, there's nothing to do but report them, I guess.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

The biggest issue with limbo is he renders your teams' weapons useless in many ways. You are required to play around him or else you cannot do anything. It is simply horrible design in a coop orientated game. Because of this the wide majority of limbo players use him to troll.

[sunderthefirmament]

On 2023-02-23 at 6:15 PM, A-Flying-Brick said:

Not just because of the laundry list of changes but because of the ever shrinking space. I'll line up a shot of something that's in the effect, only for it to shrink just enough to block my shot. It's frustrating and should not be a thing.

Completely agree. 
 

It’s a cool concept on paper, the ever shrinking sphere of influence. But in actual gameplay, it feels awful and unpredictable. I never know if a shot at the edge of a cataclysm is going to land. And that sucks, because the edge is where enemies usually are, at least if the Limbo is maintaining his stasis. 

[AegidiusF]

Just to give an exemple of players complaining about Frost Snow Globe (very funny the OP mentioned Limbo). 

There are many other threads complaining about Volt and Wisp, but as this is a brand new one, I took it as an exemple. 

 

 

[AegidiusF]

Le 25/02/2023 à 02:29, Qriist a dit :

so he could test his Gyre build with the new augment

Just to say that her agment is really cool. I use it all the time now. I hope your friend loved it too.

Back to the main subject :

 

Le 25/02/2023 à 02:29, Qriist a dit :

The goal was drastically impeded by the Limbo player, who kept dropping high range+duration cataclysms and leaving the excavator unattended. Running to the excavator to protect it was made more difficult by the inability to shoot across the boundary. Fair point that in this one, very specific way Cataclysm is similar to snow globe. Things get worse from here, however.

If I understood it correctly, the Limbo casted Cataclysm to protect the excavator, but he didn't cast Stasis, so you had to run to protect the excavator. Have I understood it correctly ?

Le 25/02/2023 à 02:29, Qriist a dit :

The inability to shoot from inside to the outside is not similar to snow globe and is significantly more disruptive to everyone else.

Yes, I agree.

Le 25/02/2023 à 02:29, Qriist a dit :

did you know that excavation missions can be two entire relic cracks in without extraction becoming available? Did you? Cool if you did. I personally learned that last night. It turns out, you need to 100% at least a single excavator before Lotus lets you bring your goodies home.

Excavation Void Fissures always need two excavators to be completed to crack a relic. This can be sometimes surprising, I understand, but it also gives you some control about the void reactants you'll need to collect to open your relic.

Le 25/02/2023 à 02:29, Qriist a dit :

but even still he was insulting us the entire time during extraction

You should have reported this. This kind of behavior is inacceptable and I'm sorry for you. Not everybody in the community is like that.

Le 25/02/2023 à 02:29, Qriist a dit :

At this point, there's nothing to do but report them, I guess.

Yes, you did the correct thing, you just forgot to mention that he insulted you.

 

To be honest, I can't really understand what was the problem with the Limbo gameplay on the Excavation you were playing with your friend, I'm sorry. If the Limbo was casting Cataclysm, you just needed to bring energy cells to the excavator and finish the mission. You were two, one could stay with the excavator and protect it (Nezha and Gyre's abilities work from inside the Rift, as almost all warframe's abilities). Perhaps I misunderstood what you've said, and I apologize, but in the same situation I would have ignored the Limbo and brought the Energy cells to the Excavator as fast as possible to finish the mission. Specially that he was using a high range and duration Limbo, making cataclysm to have a big radius and a low shrinking rate, letting you have enough space to fight enemies inside.

 

[Qriist]

3 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Just to say that her agment is really cool. I use it all the time now. I hope your friend loved it too.

Thanks, he really did enjoy it. He said it greatly lessened the babysitting of his ability timers.

4 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

If I understood it correctly, the Limbo casted Cataclysm to protect the excavator, but he didn't cast Stasis, so you had to run to protect the excavator. Have I understood it correctly ?

I don't know if he cast Statis. Even if he had, we were in Steel Path so Statis-immune Eximus enemies were abundant. The excavators themselves do not have much resilency. They have about 2k shields and 8k health, very easy to destroy if an enemy slips past you from the literally every direction they come from. An Eximus unit's aura abilities can destroy one in seconds if he's around a wall - or outside the rift boundary.

Compare this to Mobile Defense: the defense objective is much more tanky, completes faster, is naturally protected by the wall it's usually in, players don't have to leave their defense points to get power/shields for the computer, and the computer isn't capable of being stalled by lack of said power.

Taken from a couple of Earth missions:

I'm not knocking Excavation for any of those differences, I actually prefer that game mode. I'm merely pointing that you need to be on your toes for it to work. As well, it's one of the few modes where other players are capable of sabotaging the mission.

5 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Excavation Void Fissures always need two excavators to be completed to crack a relic.

No. This assertion is wrong. I tested it myself on another Excavation fissure just now before posting this comment because I wanted to be sure the other night wasn't a fluke.

Cracking a relic requires 0 complete excavators and 200 Cryotic. Extraction becoming available requires 1 complete excavator and 1 relic crack. This latter is usually an invisible requirement because people are typically capable of completing their first few excavators.

You can easily test this in solo mode by allowing several excavators to get destroyed until you gather 200 Cryotic and crack your first relic. Extraction will still not be available until you go 100% an excavator.

5 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

You should have reported this. This kind of behavior is inacceptable and I'm sorry for you. Not everybody in the community is like that.

Yes, you did the correct thing, you just forgot to mention that he insulted you.

I appreciate -and am grateful for- your concern in this regard but I must respectfully rebuke it on philosophical grounds.

I didn't "forget" to mention the insults in my report, nor did I actively elect to give him a pass; it's simply that slurs of any variety do not warrant reporting. Cheating, griefing, etc... those are actions that are detrimental to gameplay. Administrative action should be taken upon them. Naughty words are not actions and therefore no administrative action should be taken.

I have the tools to ignore that player's words at my disposal via closing the chat and/or selecting the "Ignore" menu option. This provides me more than enough agency to disengage with annoying party members. I do not need to outsource that agency to DE.

5 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

To be honest, I can't really understand what was the problem with the Limbo gameplay on the Excavation you were playing with your friend, I'm sorry. If the Limbo was casting Cataclysm, you just needed to bring energy cells to the excavator and finish the mission. You were two, one could stay with the excavator and protect it (Nezha and Gyre's abilities work from inside the Rift, as almost all warframe's abilities). 

You're right that Warframe abilities work inside the rift.

My buddy's Gyre has medium-ish AOE and can protect the excavator well from melee. She has no point defense abilties capable of compensating for Limbo's rift disruption.

My own Nezha is designed to be a support tank. Subsumed with Pillage; modded with Reaping Chakram; and equipped with Molt Reconstruct; he does many things very well. I'm quite proud of the build I've tinkered with to the perfection of personal taste. He also has no point defense ability capable of compensating for Limbo's rift disruption. The single crowd control ability he possesses (Divine Spears) has negligible effect on Eximus. His fallback crowd control is the unparalleled serenity offered by unalived malefactors. To that end, the general rotation on my Nezha is Pillage>Chakram>use weapons to delete enemies. It's this third part that was being disrupted by Limbo.

6 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

in the same situation I would have ignored the Limbo and brought the Energy cells to the Excavator as fast as possible to finish the mission. Specially that he was using a high range and duration Limbo, making cataclysm to have a big radius and a low shrinking rate, letting you have enough space to fight enemies inside.

Ignoring the Limbo was not possible.

Remember, excavators don't always spawn in wide open fields. They often spawn in cramped areas around a corner. This gives Eximus units a chance to breach your defenses -or simply launch an aura on the excavator- before you can pinpoint their location. If you guess wrong then you need to travel back entirely through the Cataclysm instead of shooting from afar. That delay usually means a dead excavator.

Despite being over 20 minutes into the map, energy cells were not litering the landscape because we were moving areas much too quickly for the enemy spawn rate to stabilize in any one location. That rapid movement was, of course, thanks to an abundance of dead excavators.

Once the Limbo got bored; once he stopped dropping Cataclysms; once he wanted to leave, we were able to immediately complete an excavator and extract.

 

Look, I'm not trying to rag on Limbo as a concept. I like his intended play style, and I occasionally take him out for spy missions or syndicate medallion hunting - amusingly enough, it's useful to spam Cataclysm when looking for medallions. What I don't like is someone else playing a Limbo because I have to actively work around all of their abilities. It is not a pleasant experience to have what is effectively an immortal enemy unit taking the place of an useful -or even useless- squad mate.

All of this together indicates that Limbo is not well-integrated into the game. Cool aesthetics do not outweigh failed missions.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

8 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Just to give an exemple of players complaining about Frost Snow Globe (very funny the OP mentioned Limbo). 

There are many other threads complaining about Volt and Wisp, but as this is a brand new one, I took it as an exemple. 

 

 

Since you're going to drag me into this, I guess I'll throw in with the other guy.
 

  

On 2/17/2023 at 5:14 AM, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Perhaps if you mention a specific situation in which Cataclysm was used to grief you, I will be able to undrestand.

I had a Limbo in a pub eidolon hunt using cataclysm every single time we broke the eidolon's shield, getting mad at us for getting mad at him because we couldn't shoot the friggin thing.

Imagine dragging someone from another thread into your argument, when all they want is for abilities to not literally prevent other players from performing tasks.  

[AegidiusF]

Le 23/02/2023 à 19:57, (NSW)AegisFifi a dit :

Just look at this forum and you'll find a bunch of threads asking for a way to not get Volt's and Wisp speed buff. Some players use it to troll and recast as soon as they see you get rid of it.

Le 15/02/2023 à 12:58, (NSW)AegisFifi a dit :

Some players can be a problem, and this is not only a Limbo problem : Frost players casting Snow Globe mindlessy, Wisp players with those Reservoirs,, Volt players with Speed (at least we can get rid of it... till the next cast), Slow Nova on Defense Missions (making it last much longer), Styanax players recharging shields when you want to benefit from the Augur set mods...

If Limbo needs a rework because some players don't know how to play it well, so almost every single frame also need a rework.

 

Il y a 1 heure, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan a dit :

Since you're going to drag me into this, I guess I'll throw in with the other guy.

As you can see, I've said before on this thread that Frost Snow Globe being cast mindlessy was a problem and that there were some threads asking for some changes on Volt and Wisp (I forgot to mention Frost, sorry), and your thread was just there in front of my eyes when I was reading the last answers on this thread about Limbo : that's why I mentioned your thread.

But we do not have two different groups fighting for each ones opinons : we are just discussion about our different in game experience with Limbo. As you can see, @Qriist and I, we are having a very friendly conversation and trying to understand each other.

Il y a 2 heures, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan a dit :

I had a Limbo in a pub eidolon hunt using cataclysm every single time we broke the eidolon's shield, getting mad at us for getting mad at him because we couldn't shoot the friggin thing.

That's really very bad situation.

Il y a 2 heures, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan a dit :

Imagine dragging someone from another thread into your argument, when all they want is for abilities to not literally prevent other players from performing tasks. 

I wasn't dragging you, but your post as it shows that, as I said before, Frost (and many other frames) can be as disruptive as Limbo : because a player that wants to be disruptive will be disruptive with any frame or any weapon. You can be disruptive with a Switch Nova, the same build that changes from Speed to Slow in the mission. You can be disruptive with a negative Ability Strength Banshee and Resonance augment mod (specially on Steel Path) reducing considerably your damage. You can be disruptive with a Nekros on a Corpus mission, preventing Limbo from casting Cataclysm by summoning dead Nullifiers...

My experience with Limbo is not as negative as some other players. I can perfectly understand their opinions, but I never experienced the same thing.

Il y a 3 heures, Qriist a dit :

No. This assertion is wrong. I tested it myself on another Excavation fissure just now before posting this comment because I wanted to be sure the other night wasn't a fluke.

I'm sorry, I made a mistake : you need 200 cryotics to open a relic, not to complete an excavator. You are right.

Il y a 3 heures, Qriist a dit :

I'm not knocking Excavation for any of those differences, I actually prefer that game mode. I'm merely pointing that you need to be on your toes for it to work. As well, it's one of the few modes where other players are capable of sabotaging the mission.

There are many other advantages on Excavation Void Fissures : the bossters for infinite void fissures works really nice and lets you get a lot of affinity, resources and Void traces. It's, in my opinion, one of the best modes for opening relics.

Il y a 3 heures, Qriist a dit :

What I don't like is someone else playing a Limbo because I have to actively work around all of their abilities. It is not a pleasant experience to have what is effectively an immortal enemy unit taking the place of an useful -or even useless- squad mate.

I totally agree.

 

[A-Flying-Brick]

I do enjoy Frost being brought back into this, Snow Globe is one of his abilities that is only as disruptive as the player using it. I do agree that needs a change too. But it has nothing on Banish let alone Cataclysm. I mentioned Null Audit as that's the more disruptive form of SG. I don't think Frost is that bad, unlike Limbo, he does need a minor rework with focus on allowing your allies to shoot through the SG but he's good enough if you build him right and work with your team. Limbo needs a lot more attention since he has multiple abilities that ruin the game for others.

As I've mentioned, toxic players will always be toxic but you can limit the damage by taking away the tools they use to be toxic. You'll always get people spamming abilities but things like Volt's Speed are annoying but it doesn't stop you from playing whereas Banish/Catacylsm do. Every other frame can spam their abilities until the heat death of the universe and not be anywhere near as disruptive as Limbo.

Can we quit it with trying to say other frames are worse? It's been covered already. I believe I've explained my points well enough. Sure you might not like other frames but Limbo is incredibly disruptive and being used to ruin the game for others. I like the idea of Limbo but his kit needs serious attention to remove the disruptive elements. A big part of this game is teamwork and that cannot happen with a Limbo in your squad.

[(PSN)deathwolfclaw666]

At the minimum we should be able to still activate objects while in the void and still be using them even if out in the void. Rift Surge has to be the most disruptive ability Limbo has and could do with a change. 

Banish is handy for putting a teammate in the void while they revive or enemies in when they're starting to overrun the team or an area.

The old 4/2 will keep enemies frozen in a bubble with some slowly moving as it shrinks. Once the Limbo recasts you tend to have clusters of enemies now inside and waiting to be multi-killed. The issue will always be bubble size, sometimes it's too small other times too big. A selection of frame abilities can bypass Cataclysm hitting enemies on the other end so potentially you can run a low range Cataclysm to protect a Mesa while she kills enemies outside the void with Peacemaker.

Then there's AOE Cataclysm builds. Cataclysm does Blast damage making it handy against Infested and to an extent Corpus. Additionally Cataclysm has the ability to destroy crates when hit making it handy when you want to clear the map of icons while looking for clan marks. 

Ultimately Limbo's Cataclysm suffers from the same issue as Frost's Snow Globe. In that there's now this bubble which may be in the way that we can't naturally shoot through. The result might end up being us wishing ill on said player. As for Rift Surge I'd personally change it to an ability that blasts enemies with damage who are in the void.

At the end of the day some of our experiences with certain frames can be completely different which is why you'll end up with "I see no issue" or "what about X frame".

Personally while I used to have an issue with Limbo players these days 9.5/10 I tend to be able to play around them. More so I find myself having issues with the players in the match complaining about the Limbo and making me do more work. My worst match thus far was because a player got a Limbo to stop while another player and I told them there were ok to carry on. For me Frosts with SG have been the worst blocking me out of large areas of the map and even resulted in a fail or two because now I can't easily hit the enemies around the objective. Other than that Nova and her MP have slown matches to a crawl followed by Khora's Strangledome has kept enemies out of reach on occasion. 

[Qriist]

10 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Since you're going to drag me into this, I guess I'll throw in with the other guy.

8 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

As you can see, @Qriist and I, we are having a very friendly conversation and trying to understand each other.

I have absolutely no beef with Aegis. We have a disagreement of perspective, sure, but it's not his job in this discussion to blindly accept my position: it's my job to sell it. To that end I believe by outlining several notable ways Limbo can seriously harm a mission to the point of sabotage we've softened Aegis' view a little bit. On the flip side, by participating in this discussion I've learned a number of ways to better play around a Limbo set on trolling - others have softened my view a little bit.

This is a great conversation!

11 hours ago, Qriist said:

What I don't like is someone else playing a Limbo because I have to actively work around all of their abilities. It is not a pleasant experience to have what is effectively an immortal enemy unit taking the place of an useful -or even useless- squad mate.

8 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

My experience with Limbo is not as negative as some other players. I can perfectly understand their opinions, but I never experienced the same thing.

3 hours ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

A big part of this game is teamwork and that cannot happen with a Limbo in your squad.

I'd like to share my experience this evening with another Limbo because it provides important contrast to what I wrote about the other night. My buddy and I were doing the Archon hunt, which has a second stage excavation this week. He was running his well-tuned Wisp and I was running Vauban. My Vauban is not nearly as tweaked as my Nezha but I've played with him a reasonable amount. Vauban also happened to be my buff frame for the hunt, so I figured that would help offset any difficiencies in my unoptimized build. We were going into the mission with a totally different skill set.

The first excavator was barely running when our first rando joined us: a Limbo player. We had a brief discussion if we should bail and ultimately decided to stay to see how things go - a big component of that discussion was the aforementioned different frames.

It turns out, this Limbo also liked spamming Cataclysm. However, I quickly noticed that his build was low duration and low range. My own Bastille had a larger radius than his Cataclysm. Limbo was effectively using the Cataclysm as a short-lived Snow Globe. On top of that, due to Vauban's particular offensive abilities working well to get damage across the rift and Wisp's healing motes keeping the excavator alive, we only lost a single excavator near the end of the level. Even though we both had some initial trepidation my buddy and I left the mission rather happy with the results.

Had we brought the same frames as last time (Gyre and Nezha) we might have had more trouble compensating for the Cataclysm, but I think this particular Limbo player might have adapted his playstyle to better suit the situation. He definitely seemed like he was aware of Limbo's disruptive potential and had actively worked to mitigate that, both in build and in gameplay.

 

I still maintain that Limbo requires a rework to better integrate into the game, mind you. A player shouldn't have to be "aware" of a frame's massive squad-wide downsides to experience the frame's kit to the fullest, nor should the non-Limbos need to actively fight the majority of his kit.

I just see Limbo's potential a little better now.

  

8 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

You can be disruptive with a Nekros on a Corpus mission, preventing Limbo from casting Cataclysm by summoning dead Nullifiers...

Not gonna lie, I didn't know this was possible and it brought a little bit of a revenge smile to my face. :P

[gamingchair1121]

2 hours ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

You'll always get people spamming abilities but things like Volt's Speed are annoying but it doesn't stop you from playing whereas Banish does.

you know you can roll out of the rift right

2 hours ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

Every other frame can spam their abilities until the heat death of the universe and not be anywhere near as disruptive as Limbo.

that's because you only use limbo's abilities when you need to, similar to how you probably wouldn't want to use valkyr for hijack or ash for excavation

also khora's 4

2 hours ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

A big part of this game is teamwork and that cannot happen with a Limbo in your squad.

even if not as good as trinity or citrine, limbo can actually be a pretty good support frame. he has his rift haven augment that heals you you can equip magus repair on your operator to heal yourself and teammates and he can freeze enemies and give you free energy and invulnerablility in the rift. he's also one of the best frames for any mission where some kind of cc is required, like excavation, interception, or mobile defense.

unfortunately, both the limbo and their teammates need to know how the rift works and how to use it, and the really good limbos make up about 6.83% of total limbo usage, 93.7% of them playing mostly solo, myself included, so I don't blame you for not knowing this

[FBalfour]

9 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

he's also one of the best frames for any mission where some kind of cc is required, like excavation, interception, or mobile defense.

Laughs in Harrow

 

Since when?

[gamingchair1121]

5 minutes ago, FBalfour said:

Laughs in Harrow

 

Since when?

14 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

he's also one of the best frames for any mission where some kind of cc is required, like excavation, interception, or mobile defense.

also harrow's 1 is his subsume so you can put it on limbo

[FBalfour]

1 minute ago, gamingchair1121 said:

also harrow's 1 is his subsume so you can put it on limbo

Yeah. And everyone else, rendering Limbo the single most useless CC frame. Obie with Condemn is better at CC. Hallowed Ground Death Prison? Pure Beauty.

But this reads to me as "Limbo needs to replace his CC with something better but I really like his concept and am desperately trying to not have the devs delete this wonderful concept, despite its very poor execution"

I long for the day I see "Limbo deleted" in a patch note.

[gamingchair1121]

7 minutes ago, FBalfour said:

Yeah. And everyone else, rendering Limbo the single most useless CC frame.

he is definitely not the most useless cc frame

10 minutes ago, FBalfour said:

But this reads to me as "Limbo needs to replace his CC with something better but I really like his concept and am desperately trying to not have the devs delete this wonderful concept, despite its very poor execution"

its not that his cc is weak and needs to be replaced, its that there's no reason to not use helminth to make him even better at what he's already good at

16 minutes ago, FBalfour said:

I long for the day I see "Limbo deleted" in a patch note.

 not going to happen

sure, DE could refund deluxe skins and give you back the plat, but that about tennogen or prime access? would you even get the money back or would they just be straight deleted? what about his prime weapons? would they be deleted as well or find someone else to own them (would be quite a disappointing prime access)? what about literally anything else referencing him, like his idle animations or prime noggles?

people might also lose trust in DE knowing that their main or weapons could just be deleted any day they feel like it

[A-Flying-Brick]

1 hour ago, gamingchair1121 said:

you know you can roll out of the rift right

that's because you only use limbo's abilities when you need to, similar to how you probably wouldn't want to use valkyr for hijack or ash for excavation

also khora's 4

even if not as good as trinity or citrine, limbo can actually be a pretty good support frame. he has his rift haven augment that heals you you can equip magus repair on your operator to heal yourself and teammates and he can freeze enemies and give you free energy and invulnerablility in the rift. he's also one of the best frames for any mission where some kind of cc is required, like excavation, interception, or mobile defense.

unfortunately, both the limbo and their teammates need to know how the rift works and how to use it, and the really good limbos make up about 6.83% of total limbo usage, 93.7% of them playing mostly solo, myself included, so I don't blame you for not knowing this

Yes you can roll out but as I've said, they will spam Banish so you're stuck in the Rift Plane constantly. Plus rolling does nothing inside Cataclysm.

Every Limbo I've seen will spam Banish and/or Cataclysm, with not one care for anyone else. Personally, I believe he is not right for any mission-type in his current state. Also Valkyr is great for Hijack, she can buff her teammates and CC quite well. While not my number one pick for Hijack, still more viable. Plus Ash on Excavation is definitely better than a Limbo, heavy slash damage and a mild CC with no team disruption. I'd call that a win any day of the week.

Last time I checked, you can still attack enemies that are in Khora's 4, if anything it's great to have up to cover an area. Sure it can be shot through but it certainly takes some of the stress off the rest of the squad who only need to deal with the Nullifiers and Eximus units. It's a great defensive CC that is certainly more vauable to have than Cataclysm blocking shots.

Trinity is much better at support than Limbo. She can Heal, Restore Energy, Shields and give Damage Resistance. Limbo has nothing on that. As I've pointed out, he has to be the worst choice for Excavation, Interception or Mobile Defence. Putting Harrow's Condemn on any frame is better for CC than Limbo and it doesn't disrupt the rest of the squad.

Playing solo is no excuse for Limbo's problems. Making up random statistics and using your anecdotal accounts are nothing more than logal fallacies that change none of the facts here. Limbo is nightmare to deal with and not in a good way.

16 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

he is definitely not the most useless cc frame

its not that his cc is weak and needs to be replaced, its that there's no reason to not use helminth to make him even better at what he's already good at

He's not that good. As I've said previously it's not very good CC. Aside from Harrow, there's: Vauban, Volt, Khora and Equinox to name a few. Also before you chime in with a "bUt THose fraMes arE disUPtiVe toOooo", they are not as disruptive as Limbo, please stop diverting the thread because you don't like that people have had bad experiances with a frame you enjoy and/or dislike him. It's childish and almost as disruptive as the frame you're idolising.

[FBalfour]

4 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

its not that his cc is weak and needs to be replaced, its that there's no reason to not use helminth to make him even better at what he's already good at

Limbo's entire basekit is set around being disruptive to their own team and running solo. If someone wants to play Limbo solo, more power to them, but they render everyone else's fun non-existent.


Again; Condemn on anyone else is better CC, and here's why:
Limbo's kit is focused on helping himself, and himself alone. Yes, even with the heal augment. Because the heal augment takes allies away from where they are useful
Toss condemn on literally anyone else and it amplifies their team-skills. On Limbo? Only self. Because Limbo is a selfish frame.

Already good at CC? I fail to see it. Only Cataclysm and Stasis, which (whoops!) only really benefit Limbo. His 1 affects 1 target per cast. Harrow is significantly better. An entire crowd for a cast, plus with Tribunal allows allies to proc Harrow's other team-based abilities.

 

The only crowd Limbo actually has any semblance of control over is the rest of their team.

 

Limbo needs to be completely re-worked. There are a multitude of ways to fix him. I love his aesthetic and concept, but the execution is so bad that it gives everyone who plays him a bad reputation. As previously mentioned earlier in this thread the moment a Limbo joins a lobby, people think of leaving. That is the reputation that Limbo has, and without a complete rework that reduces the easy application of trolling, it will continue to be that way. But unless the mains accept and make a move towards trying to better a frame that they clearly love, they will continue to run into people who will immediately assume the worst of them, because that's what we get to see.

If you love a frame, be it Limbo, Harrow, Citrine, Oberon, Wukong, whatever, it is always in your best interest to help other people love them. Not tell them they're wrong or uneducated for having a fully-formed opinion based off of the interactions they've had with that frame. Telling people "You can always roll out of the rift" sounds more like a wannabe supervillain trying to find the loophole that makes their dastardly deeds technically legal than a gentle reminder of "Hey, I know this can be frustrating, so I'm here for you to help you out. We've got this."

TL;DR: If you love something, let it get fixed instead of arguing about how it's flawless.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

9 hours ago, FBalfour said:

 The only crowd Limbo actually has any semblance of control over is the rest of their team.

That is absolutely hilarious but true.