CC effects that work[ed] through Overguard [before Dante Unbound, mostly]

[Tiltskillet]

34 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

My bad, you're right. I confused Finishers with Mercies. 

Anyway, you did a great job on this list, it must have been a long work. Well done!

Thanks.  I'm sure there is missing stuff, especially on augments and effects that -don't work- through Overguard but probably should.  Periodically I remember things to add and then forget all about them for a while too, lol.

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 10 heures, Tiltskillet a dit :

I have some updates for Dagath, Qorvex, and Nautilus Cordon...

Dagath:  None.

Qorvex:  Chyrinka Pillar does apply its slow to OGs, in addition to being a decent distraction through its radiation proc utility as long as normal units are around.

• As expected, Containment Wall's grouping effect doesn't work on OGs--however its  damage vulnerability is not applied to them either.  Juggernaut is also unaffected, which may mean that all targets immune to the grouping are immune to the debuff.  More testing needed to verify.

Nautilus Cordon: No longer works on OGs as of today.

 

@(NSW)AegisFifi  I did verify this in game.

Thank you very much ! A great GG !

You are doing an excellent work for the whole community.

Let's hope one day everything will be working consistently.

[Elenortirie]

Note about Mag's Polarize augument - it works in full against enemies with overguard - which means not just weapon jam, but in terms of robotics, full sleep.

[helioth137]

interesting, thanks for all the work put into this

[-ShadowRadiance-]

On 2023-03-29 at 2:53 AM, Tiltskillet said:

Decoy is quite good at drawing OG aggro if you can keep it alive.

Banishing the decoy works. It keeps the agro

 

[Xzorn]

To be honest you could just sum this up as "most anything Iron Skin wasn't coded to deal with".

There aren't any PROC animation effects like Blind, Weapon Jam or Scarabs from NPCs so many of those would have been missed.
Any effect which produces a unique animation has a good chance of working. They would need to have coded all animations in a single function otherwise they would need to flag against every single animation type separate.  IN other words it should be coded similar to this...

Spoiler

///Placed inside Global Animation Function for playing animations based on different effects

local function hasOverGuard(char)
    local esvChar = Ext.Entity.GetCharacter(char)
    if esvChar.Stats.OverGuard >=0 then
        return 1
    else
        return 0
    end
end

(Instead they're likely doing this I'd guess and placing it as a check in Overguard)

local OverGuardIgnoreList = {
    "Animation0",
    "Animation1",
    "Animation2",
    "Animation3",
    "Animation4",
}

(The 2nd option is easier. You don't have to write a whole new function for playing animations but you have to list every animation to ignore)

It's a very questionable change and likely a jank copy + paste from Rhino with inserted local function checks like I showed.
Saddest part is they didn't bother to fix issues with Iron Skin while doing it. Like not gaining mitigation from rolling or blocking with melee.

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

It's a very questionable change and likely a jank copy + paste from Rhino with inserted local function checks like I showed.

There are so many inconsistencies that I think they must have to do a lot of this individually by hand.  Most blinds work, but not all.  Most disarms work, but not all.  Most slows don't work, but some do.  I think they've now made all grouping abilities no longer work through Overguard, but it's taken piecemeal fixes.  Etc.  Then there are all the ability components that aren't CC--and in one or two cases aren't even connected to an ability with any CC--that don't work through Overguard.  I suppose there might be some copypasta-ing from "boss" or other attributes in those cases.

I really know less than nothing about what's happening back there, but it's fun to guess.

[Xzorn]

23 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

There are so many inconsistencies that I think they must have to do a lot of this individually by hand.  Most blinds work, but not all.  Most disarms work, but not all.  Most slows don't work, but some do.  I think they've now made all grouping abilities no longer work through Overguard, but it's taken piecemeal fixes.  Etc.  Then there are all the ability components that aren't CC--and in one or two cases aren't even connected to an ability with any CC--that don't work through Overguard.  I suppose there might be some copypasta-ing from "boss" or other attributes in those cases.

I really know less than nothing about what's happening back there, but it's fun to guess.

 

I've worked on some projects up to 4 years and keeping the code clean can get very hard. Esp when you add things you never intended. As a coder you're left with an option of re-writing thousands of lines to make a clean function or use a shortcut which works just as fine and only someone looking at the code could tell.

The first example I gave would be inserted into a new global function that deals with all animations which not only requires listing them but also scalping all other code in other places involving it. Say Rhino's Stomp animation is a product of the skill's code itself. That would have to be removed and moved into the global controller.

Every time they create a new animation, status, skill, damage type, whatever. It's given a string name.
Because it works and doesn't work at the same time, it makes me think they took the shortcut of running it through a list of these strings.

Which also means anything new would have to be added to the list. Forever. I'm obviously guessing too but the behavior lines up.

[KitMeHarder]

Here's another fun one. Heat Thermal Sunder's scaling damage doesn't work against OG, it'll always do the same damage as if the enemies don't have heat procs on them.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

I didnt see this mentioned:

The clones created by "Duplex Bond" companion mod does agro OG enemies and can act as a distraction.

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 16 heures, KitMeHarder a dit :

Here's another fun one. Heat Thermal Sunder's scaling damage doesn't work against OG, it'll always do the same damage as if the enemies don't have heat procs on them.

Yes, true, as the scaling damage is tied to the way Thermal sunder applies new stances of Heat procs, this was kind of predictable, but now we are sure about it. Thanks.👍

Il y a 4 heures, -ShadowRadiance- a dit :

I didnt see this mentioned:

The clones created by "Duplex Bond" companion mod does agro OG enemies and can act as a distraction.

Sorry, it's my fault. I tested companions before the last updates and I haven't tested the new Bond Mods yet.

Thanks for the information.

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, AegidiusF said:

Yes, true, as the scaling damage is tied to the way Thermal sunder applies new stances of Heat procs, this was kind of predictable,

I don't understand Gauss or Thermal Sunder's mechanics very well, so I have some (probably silly) questions.

Why is that behavior predictable?

On normal enemies, it looks like the initial damage of TS doesn't scale off heat  from other sources.  Is that correct?

Against  OGs it sure looks like its damage scales down--i.e., getting worse on each cast rather than better.   If I'm not hallucinating it, any idea why that would happen?

3 hours ago, AegidiusF said:

Sorry, it's my fault.

Hardly. :P

[KitMeHarder]

48 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Against  OGs it sure looks like its damage scales down--i.e., getting worse on each cast rather than better.   If I'm not hallucinating it, any idea why that would happen?

On Gauss, TS also scales with Battery and heat cast spends your battery. You probably walked up to the enemy with some battery gained and each cast you did made you have less battery.

53 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

On normal enemies, it looks like the initial damage of TS doesn't scale off heat  from other sources.  Is that correct?

It scales with any heat DoT, not just those from TS.

[Tiltskillet]

I added notes about Loki's new Damage Decoy augment not allowing the targeting of OGs, and Titania drones being very good at drawing OG aggro.  I'll have some more additions soon.

@KitMeHarder Thank you for the explanations on Sunder.  I planned on adding the note about scaling but decided I want to do some retesting first.

[Tiltskillet]

Looks like I may be doing a lot of revisions, lol.

[Arbitrary]

On 2023-03-28 at 8:53 PM, Tiltskillet said:

Grendel: Regurgitate's slow works on OGs.

On 2023-03-28 at 8:53 PM, Tiltskillet said:

Polarize’s augment jams OG weapons, which ends up working more like a Stun than a Disarm on ranged OGs, as they stand in place and won’t cast special abilities for the duration.  Crush’s augment immobilizes OGs, though they can still turn, shoot and cast.

On 2023-03-28 at 8:53 PM, Tiltskillet said:

Rhino: Rhino Stomp slows OGs..  It’s a 97.5% slow, so near paralysis, and will short circuit some eximus abilities.

On 2023-03-28 at 8:53 PM, Tiltskillet said:

Breach Surge blinds OGs.

On 2023-03-28 at 8:57 PM, Tiltskillet said:

Zenurik slow: works

On 2023-03-28 at 8:57 PM, Tiltskillet said:

Primary Obstruct:  Jams ranged weapons through OG.

On 2023-03-28 at 8:57 PM, Tiltskillet said:

Halikar etc.: Disarm works

All of these got fixed with Dante Unbound and no longer go through Overguard.

[Tiltskillet]

6 minutes ago, Arbitrary said:

All of these got fixed with Dante Unbound and no longer go through Overguard.

Thank you.  The only two things I've found so far that are still working are Magnetized Discharge and Chesa Neutralize.   So two disarms, although I don't think any of the ones that weren't working before have been enabled.  I do have more to test.  Anyway I'm going to wait on revisions for a few days at least, in case a hotfix fixes the bugfixes.  Or, more likely, adds to them.

I'm supercurious if any of the things that seemingly should work through Overguard but didn't have also been changed.

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 2 heures, Arbitrary a dit :

Zenurik slow: works

Oh! I always thought this was intended. 😥sniff sniff

[taiiat]

7 hours ago, Arbitrary said:

All of these got fixed with Dante Unbound and no longer go through Overguard.

hilarious that what Focus brings being explicitly excluded - that's borderline retconning the Lore behind Tenno. but i digress.

4 hours ago, AegidiusF said:

Oh! I always thought this was intended. 😥sniff sniff

no kidding, makes sense to the Lore of Tenno.

[Tiltskillet]

9 minutes ago, taiiat said:

hilarious that what Focus brings being explicitly excluded - that's borderline retconning the Lore behind Tenno. but i digress.

Zenurik slow was the only school CC  that fully worked though.  So if them not working through Overguard is contradicted by the lore (and I don't know if it is or not) it would appear that was never a concern.

[taiiat]

3 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Zenurik slow was the only school CC  that fully worked though.  So if them not working through Overguard is contradicted by the lore (and I don't know if it is or not) it would appear that was never a concern.

IMO it is against the Lore - purpose made Weapons to counteract the greatest Enemy, working when nothing else does
if other parts of Focus weren't applying, to me that should've been fixed (made to work/apply).

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 7 heures, taiiat a dit :

no kidding, makes sense to the Lore of Tenno.

I totally agree, by the way. 

[ShardTheDiceGirl]

I can't find any proper info on it, does Mesa's Shooting Gallery + Muzzle Flash combo still blind enemies with Overguard, or was that fixed at some point?

[Tiltskillet]

32 minutes ago, ShardTheDiceGirl said:

I can't find any proper info on it, does Mesa's Shooting Gallery + Muzzle Flash combo still blind enemies with Overguard, or was that fixed at some point?

It's still blinding Eximus in the Sim, so I think it's untouched...for now.   Very occasionally the blind seems  unreliable, but I had the same problem when I tested it a year ago.

 

[(PSN)rexis12]

On 2024-03-29 at 12:04 AM, Arbitrary said:

All of these got fixed with Dante Unbound and no longer go through Overguard.

God every update with Overguard just pisses me off more and more, and they wonder why they feel like theey can't change/update Loki without completely removing his identity.