Stalker Content and a lore theory(AMA Answer)

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

During the AMA the question of accessing Stalker outside of Duviri was asked. Rebecca's reply as follows:

"Currently no, but if things go according to plan (fingers crossed) this won't be the last you see of Stalker in 2023, but what that actually means you'll find out at Tennocon (not PvP lol)

My theory:

Drifter is the one who takes control of our Warframe and breaks War in The Second Dream. It's Drifter "repaying his debt" to The Operator.

My theory is this explains why Stalker is present in Duviri. What I think will happen is this new "Stalker content" will fill in the gaps on how Drifter acquires The Lotus in The New War.

It'll also explain how Drifter loses "The Lotus Hand" since this isn't present in The New War. (We don't see or know how The Lotus ends up with Drifter)

They can also explore Stalker Lore. Maybe his orgions. Maybe witness The Collpase from his perspective and watch our Tenno kill the Emperors.

Quest ends with a "Hunhow Syndicate" being introduced and Shadow Stalker becomes the playable warframe accessed outside Duviri.

This could line up and tie in The Second Dream to the lore we have now since The Drifter has a "debt" to the Operator. Which is then paid by helping The Operator in The Second Dream.

Thoughts?

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

I'm just trying to give the Stalker some therapy, using him to conquer each Orowyrm (in steel path) to maybe help Stalker with his emotions. 

I think returning Spacemom to the Operator is the dept repayment? 

[Voltage]

Adding Stalker was perfect for Duviri since all his weapons sum up how the severe time-gating feels. /s

In all seriousness, you can think of a theory, but the truth of the matter is that we can't really know since DE has opened Pandora's Box to "the multiverse" with Eternalism in The New War, so there are no stakes anymore or real connection since anything is really on the table at all times. The weight of Teshin in The New War was completely thrown out because of this.

[Waeleto]

I REALLY hope we get playable stalker outside of duviri as a normal full warframe 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

8 hours ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

Maybe witness The Collpase from his perspective and watch our Tenno kill the Emperors.

man, I would love this. watching all those smug, high and mighty Orokin who committed all those atrocities get sliced and diced like vegetables would be amazing. 

[ant99999]

24 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

man, I would love this. watching all those smug, high and mighty Orokin who committed all those atrocities get sliced and diced like vegetables would be amazing. 

It's really a shame none of those who we know were the nastiest, did get it that way, neither Ballas, nor Tuvul, nor Nihil.

I'd personally gladly made Tuvul into a bowl of colesaw, but sadly he was more needed for Voruna lore.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

1 minute ago, ant99999 said:

It's really a shame none of those who we know were the nastiest,

that's just it though: we don't know just how bad some of the other Orokin were, because we've never heard about them; there wasn't just a handful, they were spread quite far across the system, and while we know of the executors, and a few of the Orokin characters that appear in the Leverian, there are likely still many more Orokin who's stories are to be discovered. 

anyway, the important thing is that (almost) all of them are dead, and the few that are left are actually allies, like the Entrati. 

[TARINunit9]

9 hours ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

Drifter is the one who takes control of our Warframe and breaks War in The Second Dream. It's Drifter "repaying his debt" to The Operator.

I categorically reject any explaination that the Warframe didn't just do it of their own power and free will.

As for the debt? Drifter already helped the Z-kid by saving Lotus. It's a time loop: the "paradox" is actually the Z-kid as he helps the Drifter escape Duviri. After escaping, Drifter goes and saves Lotus in the New War. After beating the New War, the Z-kid goes and helps the Drifter escape Duviri, so the Drifter can save Lotus, and so on and so on

[ant99999]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

that's just it though: we don't know just how bad some of the other Orokin were, because we've never heard about them; there wasn't just a handful, they were spread quite far across the system, and while we know of the executors, and a few of the Orokin characters that appear in the Leverian, there are likely still many more Orokin who's stories are to be discovered. 

Yeah, that's true, for all we know the remaining 4 executors may be even worse than those we know (although, it's pretty hard to compete with Ballas in this category). Yeah, all things considered, the Collapse would be a fun... salad cooking activity.

[ElfieJenkins]

My tinfoil hat theory was that Stalker is a relative of our Tenno, as the Envy memory from Duviri implied (to me at least) that our Tenno has a sibling.

Of course, there are those who say Stalker is an Umbra style frame, while I can see that, I still interpret what we know from Second Dream as Stalker's operator losing it on finding out they were just puppeting something.

Whatever it ends up being, it'll be interesting to see. Maybe we'll get another Stalker assassin spawn update, but he'll go back to actually being challenging.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

1 hour ago, ElfieJenkins said:

My tinfoil hat theory was that Stalker is a relative of our Tenno, as the Envy memory from Duviri implied (to me at least) that our Tenno has a sibling.

Of course, there are those who say Stalker is an Umbra style frame, while I can see that, I still interpret what we know from Second Dream as Stalker's operator losing it on finding out they were just puppeting something.

Whatever it ends up being, it'll be interesting to see. Maybe we'll get another Stalker assassin spawn update, but he'll go back to actually being challenging.

I'm still of the belief that that Stalker's "Operator" is stuck in a transference loop within the warframe along with the Acolytes. I'm hoping that explains what happens to the "Low Guardians" during The Collapse. 

Shadow Stalker has the same body as Umbra Excalibur. That could be the only connection between them. Now that could lead to the theory that Stalker is Issia from The Sacrifice but I'm thinking that's not the case.

That is unless all Low Guardians are all the decendants of Umbra which all suffered the same fate, which would mean all Stalker/Acolytes were created to be Operated like a Warframe, which would be a cool idea but I'm thinking that's not the case. 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

6 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

I categorically reject any explaination that the Warframe didn't just do it of their own power and free will.

As for the debt? Drifter already helped the Z-kid by saving Lotus. It's a time loop: the "paradox" is actually the Z-kid as he helps the Drifter escape Duviri. After escaping, Drifter goes and saves Lotus in the New War. After beating the New War, the Z-kid goes and helps the Drifter escape Duviri, so the Drifter can save Lotus, and so on and so on

With the new Stalker content they have planned: The Second Dream is the likely place to start. Because after that event (By interacting with the Warframe and snapping War) you have a plausible scenario that Drifter lends Operator a helping hand in this instance. 

And I would think if they do have a dedicated "Stalker Update" they would go back to The Second Dream and create a Drifter connection to it.

Then they end it by returning to The New War and potentially create the long time discussed "Stalker/Hunhow Syndicate" because we've saved The Lotus/Natah/Margulis. 

It's not PvP related, so it won't involve the Stalker Mode. But it could recreate something that's PvE related where we unlock Stalker as a playable Warframe outside Duviri.

My thinking is this is how we get that. And it also allows for Stalker to get that long desired rework. Because as much as I'm a fan of playable Stalker:

My hope is his abilities are not a cut/Paste job that he did get in Duviri. Now it makes sense to have it this way in this instance but outside Duviri he definitely needs more.

[TARINunit9]

23 minutes ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

Because after that event (By interacting with the Warframe and snapping War) you have a plausible scenario that Drifter lends Operator a helping hand in this instance. 

Again, I will categorically reject this. The Warframe broke War by themselves. No transference, no Lotus, no Drifter. Purely autonomous Warframe.

[Atsia]

Yeah no. If they're gonna do anything with Stalker it won't be retroactively changing story beats. We already know how Drifter pays back the help they got, it's the entirety of New War Act Two and them saving the Lotus.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

2 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Again, I will categorically reject this. The Warframe broke War by themselves. No transference, no Lotus, no Drifter. Purely autonomous Warframe.

It's still completely plausible to have this happen. If it actually does become the case I'm not against this outcome happening at all. 

[TARINunit9]

51 minutes ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

It's still completely plausible to have this happen. If it actually does become the case I'm not against this outcome happening at all. 

Plausible under established lore? Yes. A good idea for the writers to do? Absolutely not, we are in opposite camps there

[rhoenix]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

With the new Stalker content they have planned: The Second Dream is the likely place to start. Because after that event (By interacting with the Warframe and snapping War) you have a plausible scenario that Drifter lends Operator a helping hand in this instance. 

The problem is that this view completely invalidates the whole "Warframes may still have some free will" hints leading up to The Sacrifice quest.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

1 hour ago, rhoenix said:

The problem is that this view completely invalidates the whole "Warframes may still have some free will" hints leading up to The Sacrifice quest.

I mean thats also kinda covered in The Sacrifice Quest as well in the sense that Umbra was given a unique strain to covert him. Umbra is really the only Warframe that still possess that aspect of themselves outside Stalker and the Acolytes.

Now this could be the same strain that Stalker/Acolytes have which can be explored more deeply which I'd be all for. 

But it also makes sense to have this strain which allows for that and another which completely wipes out an individuality remaining (the more ideal choice for a warframe) to also exist 

But I'm also for the Drifter Assistance Scenario as well. It's still a plausible outcome.

[rhoenix]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

I mean thats also kinda covered in The Sacrifice Quest as well in the sense that Umbra was given a unique strain to covert him. Umbra is really the only Warframe that still possess that aspect of themselves outside Stalker and the Acolytes.

Now this could be the same strain that Stalker/Acolytes have which can be explored more deeply which I'd be all for. 

But I'm also for the Drifter Assistance Scenario as well. It's still a plausible outcome.

The "different strain" that The Sacrifice references is the Helminth strain.  As in, the Helminth we have on our ship - the same strain that makes all of our Warframes as they are, and not Infested monstrosities like Lephantis.

The only difference between Umbra and a "normal" warframe in terms of process is that Ballas hadn't finished Umbra's psychological torture to make him completely compliant - and it was most certainly meant as torture on Ballas' part.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

12 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

man, I would love this. watching all those smug, high and mighty Orokin who committed all those atrocities get sliced and diced like vegetables would be amazing. 

got my vote, would also be interesting to learn about the other "low guardians"

[(PSN)robotwars7]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

got my vote, would also be interesting to learn about the other "low guardians"

I'm guessing since "Low Guardian" is a title, there were multiple ranks, and I suppose "Guardian" would mean they worked almost exclusively as close protection for the Orokin i.e. keeping the plebs away, while the Dax were basically the police force/human military staff (they also had MOAs back then too), and Tenno occupied more of a special forces role, due to their enhanced capabilities. 

what i wouldn't give for "flashback missions" set in important moments in the warframe timeline to become a thing so that we could actually play out the massacre ourselves.. IMO that's just as interesting as any new quest, if not more so!

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

1 minute ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

I'm guessing since "Low Guardian" is a title, there were multiple ranks, and I suppose "Guardian" would mean they worked almost exclusively as close protection for the Orokin i.e. keeping the plebs away, while the Dax were basically the police force/human military staff (they also had MOAs back then too), and Tenno occupied more of a special forces role, due to their enhanced capabilities. 

what i wouldn't give for "flashback missions" set in important moments in the warframe timeline to become a thing so that we could actually play out the massacre ourselves.. IMO that's just as interesting as any new quest, if not more so!

  would add to the lore and base game immersion imo

be also interesting if we figured out how orokin made these guardians, as stalkers whole setup/kit is different, makes me think unlike warframes we know per sacrifice, then hypothetically there was another method or different process involved for them and explains their background/ roles 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

4 hours ago, rhoenix said:

The only difference between Umbra and a "normal" warframe in terms of process is that Ballas hadn't finished Umbra's psychological torture to make him completely compliant - and it was most certainly meant as torture on Ballas' part.

This could also explain why Umbra still possessed control. He's the only warframe we have access to that still has autonomy when we transfer out of him. 

The reason why I said "different strain" is because by this time: Ballas has already created  the warframes, and  he's perfected the process.

So this specific strain administered to Umbra, is specific to create the result of psychological torture and maximize upon it on the infected. It's intentional. Hence a "different strain. "

Additionally Umbra is the only warframe we possess that's able to operate autonomously. Add in Stalker and the Acolytes that's a grand total of 7 Warframes that potentially exhibit this trait.

We are still not 100% certain if they are piloted warframes. And I hope this actually gets explained. I'm personally of the belief they are not and completely autonomous. 

Which lends me to believe either:

1) Stalker and Acolytes are decendants of Umbra, converted into Warframes to serve as "Low Guardians"

2) The Low Guardians now Masterless and want revenge.  This leads them to intentionally infect themselves to become Warframes in order to Hunt the Tenno. The memory of failure during The Collapse seering into there minds.

3) For there failure to protect the Emperors, the Low Guardians get infected with the same strain creating Stalker and the Acolytes. The memory of failure is a constant reminder.

4) Low Guardians entered a transference loop, Sacrificing there physical bodies and became Warframes.