Are we ever getting that Werewolf frame?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Ok so I had you backwards this whole time. You do know what a Vampire is, it's the other part you were confused on 

So, a lot of this wasn't in the lore yet when Terry was first released, but it was when Revenant was released, so let me walk you through it:

Eidolons are undead Sentients. They feed on the flesh of other Sentients, and also enslave them to their will. They rise from the mud every evening before retreating from the sun in the morning. Stagnant waters and swamps are infected by their poisonous touch, but they steer clear from the ocean even though what they really want is plonked smack dab in the middle of it. They keep their rotting bodies stable by slathering themselves in the mud and debris of their gravesites. Their most powerful thrall, Revenant, hates their guts and was only enslaved after he made the mistake of inviting them in after a moment of arrogance. And as established, Revenant's powers are hypnotism and transforming into a poisonous fog

Dracula is an an undead vampire. He feeds on the flesh of humans while also enslaving them to his will. He rises from his grave every evening before retreating from the sun in the morning. The swamps and stagnant waters around his castle are infested with his evil magic and will-o'-the-wisp, but he cannot cross the ocean waters unassisted even though what he really wants is on the other side. Even when he gets to England he must keep his vampire body stable by slathering himself in Transylvania soil. His most powerful thrall, Renfield, hates his guts and was only enslaved after a moment of weakness. Dracula's powers are hypnotism and turning into a poisonous fog.

You had your Eidolon frame all along

Just because something is undead does not automatically make it a vampire.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 hours ago, Loza03 said:

And historical accounts and mythologies of Werewolves involved stories of people who walked around on hands and knees and thought they were a wolf really really hard.

As a matter of fact, they also involved people who went to sleep and dreamed into a wolf or wolf-like astral body, and fought demons in the name of God. Voruna is a Tenno, someone who sleeps and dreams into another, wolf-like body and fought demons in the name of those who proclaim themselves gods.

It's also worth acknowledging that Dracula did require soil from his homeland to thrive and heal, and had his own personal lair that only he could traverse and allow people to enter or leave (at least without great effort from the victim). Not exactly distant concepts to fusing oneself to a landscape to heal, or having a personal pocket dimension that only you can travel to and from to.

As for lasers, true, Drac doesn't shoot lasers, but it's worth remembering that was a later addition to his kit after people complained that the frame was too much vampire, not enough Eidolon.

Well you know those complaints happen to pop up when DE announces a certain type of frame and then immediately shows that frame with non-theme centric abilities.

Seriously, you people are adamant on making up vague connections between vampires and Eidolons instead of just acknowledging that Revenant shouldn’t have a vampire theme. When you fight the Eidolons they aren’t turning into bats and smoke trying to suck your blood. So why tf is Revenant doing those things?

[Loza03]

7 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Well you know those complaints happen to pop up when DE announces a certain type of frame and then immediately shows that frame with non-theme centric abilities.

Seriously, you people are adamant on making up vague connections between vampires and Eidolons instead of just acknowledging that Revenant shouldn’t have a vampire theme. When you fight the Eidolons they aren’t turning into bats and smoke trying to suck your blood. So why tf is Revenant doing those things?

Because most of the thematic connections in Warframe range from fairly tangential to outright vague in the first place. Wisp uses obviously sci-fi stuff to achieve her ghost them (for example, her 3 lets her 'phase through walls' if you can see through them, by portal travel), and nothing about Loki's physical design and abilities is tangential at best (he never self-duplicates, and I can't find any references to him turning invisible, but I've not got the Eddas) but it still gets across the 'trickster' vibes. There's a few that are dead-on, of course - Wukong springs to mind, and Harrow to some degree although with all those chains his self-flagellation has... different and not very holy connotations, and in any case, those examples are the exception. But plenty either reference generic concepts (Tech, Ghost, Ice, Sword), or blends of concepts (Khora sports visual aesthetics from Dominatrixes, Spiders and Circus Animal tamers) or putting one visual concept on top of a different mechanical concept (A porcelain doll has no real connection to power over antimatter, yet Nova exists).

Vampires and Werewolves are not only are incredibly well-trodden and generic fantasy ground ripe for reimagining, they're fantasy ground with dozens of different definitions across the years. Even taking the 'turn into bats and sucking blood', do the Vampires in Twilight turn into bats? Colin Robinson from 'What we do in the Shadows' doesn't suck blood, but nobody questions that he's a Vampire. And I've already talked at length at how many massively different takes on werewolves exist (again, some of which Voruna actually hits pretty well), and much the same is true for Vampires. And all that's just European ideas of creatures rising from dead to feast on the living or people who turn into animals. What about Japan's Jubboko trees or Kitsune? 

So really, what you're complaining about is that Revenant and Voruna aren't exactly like the aesthetics set by western cinema less than a century ago, despite the fact that Digital Extremes has a long track record of not doing that, and that resulting in Warframe having one of the most unique visual identities in the modern gaming space.

Revenant and Voruna might not be particularly stunning and iconic Vampires and Werewolves, but the fantasy of playing a Vampire or a Werewolf exists in other games anyway. Instead, DE did something different. Revenant combines the mechanics of a vampire with the aesthetics of an existing form of Undead in the Warframe Universe, and Voruna is a humanoid wolf (a 'Were-Wolf') that draws upon common themes of wolf packs and hunting.

[TeaHands]

[GPrime96]

On 2023-05-11 at 9:45 AM, YikersDikers said:

Rebecca has come out in a devstream previously saying that Voruna is more of a Wolf based frame instead of a Werewolf Frame. 

As for Revenant, he isn't an Eidolon Frame, he is a vampire frame wearing eidolon cosmetics. 

Revenant can’t figure out if he’s Vlad Dracula or a Eidolon after he put on his costume

[SneakyErvin]

11 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

I personally think of the game Bloodborne when I came up with the idea. Basically characters like Lady Maria, Gehrman, and Father Gascoigne who can move quickly with razor sharp melee weapons, favoring mobility and aggressiveness over heavy armor. They also use guns and therefore would work very similarly to a Warframe specifically designed to hunt down infested horrors.

This also ties into why it would be a Hunter frame: irony. Several of the Bloodborne bosses are/were hunters that turn into the very monsters they hunt, with only Ludwig regaining his sanity after he transforms. 

Basically my idea is this: Hugh mobility, low armor and shields, frame has an ability that allows it to close the gap between himself/herself quickly and attack enemies, has an ability that makes it so killing enemies makes it stronger and faster, has a bunch of gadgets that can do a variety of functions (blinding smoke bombs, launching projectiles like knives, etc), and an exalted/signature weapon that can swap between two stances mid fight. As the frame kills enemies and uses abilities, the frame builds up a "werewolf meter" which triggers automatically when full, and causes a surge of energy, increases the attack speed of melee weapons, boosts the strength and speed of abilities, causes constant hp regeneration, and lands guaranteed staggers on enemies on hits (with an increased chance of slash procs). Enemies also become highlighted in red as part of the cosmetic and are visible on the minimap. The frame reverts to normal when the meter runs out but it can be kept up by killing enemies.

That just feels more like a "generic" monster frame and not very werewolf-ish overall. Werewolves tend to be one of two things, either someone cursed and at the mercy of the full moon or night in general, or it is a skinwalker/shapeshifter that can shift on demand. And in the first case you have either those that go full feral and cant turn back, or you have those that go feral during a full moon (most werewolf stories) or most every night, like Kveldulv in old norse tales whom turned "vrickad vrång" or well raging insane at night.

[TARINunit9]

11 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Just because something is undead does not automatically make it a vampire.

Leaving aside the folklore Dracula and Revenant are based on (wherein yes, basically every undead used to automatically be a vampire) my real point is you're looking at the wrong term. When you ask "where is my Eidolon frame?" DE responds "what are you talking about? The undead sentient vampire that enslaves things with ghostly energy and drinks the life force out of people is called Revenant"

What you have really wanted for the last four years, is "where is my TERRALYST frame?"

You have to understand, in the official style guide "Eidolon" is a broad category (undead Sentients with vampire theming) and "Eidolon Terralyst" is not one thing, it is two things (a Terralyst that is also an Eidolon). The official designation of Undead Lotus during the New War, is "EIDOLON Lotus"

This is why you've just been shouting at a forum made of brick walls for five years

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

That just feels more like a "generic" monster frame and not very werewolf-ish overall. Werewolves tend to be one of two things, either someone cursed and at the mercy of the full moon or night in general, or it is a skinwalker/shapeshifter that can shift on demand. And in the first case you have either those that go full feral and cant turn back, or you have those that go feral during a full moon (most werewolf stories) or most every night, like Kveldulv in old norse tales whom turned "vrickad vrång" or well raging insane at night.

A frame that transforms on will between two modes would also work as well, even if Equinox and Sevagoth embody that concept. 

My idea was simply to make it streamlined, (obviously the transformation would cause differences in animations etc), but having two different frames with entirely different kits would work as well. 

If we were to alter my idea, the 4th ability would be replaced with the passive and have an energy drain instead of a meter, the frame would then be like Sevagoth where you get new abilities that are more powerful, but unlike Sevagoth you can still function like a regular frame (basically a mix between Sevagoth and Equinox).

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

I decided to make Bing Ai ,( a derivative of chat GPT) make a werewolf frame: Here is a possible design for a Warframe that can shapeshift into a werewolf:

 

Name: Lupus

 

Passive: Feral Instinct - Lupus gains increased movement speed, melee damage and critical chance based on the amount of health he has lost.

 

Ability 1: Howl - Lupus unleashes a powerful howl that stuns nearby enemies and boosts the attack speed and armor of himself and his allies.

 

Ability 2: Lunge - Lupus leaps forward and bites an enemy, dealing damage and healing himself for a percentage of the damage dealt. If the enemy is killed by this ability, Lupus gains a stack of Bloodlust, increasing his damage and attack speed for a duration.

 

Ability 3: Shred - Lupus slashes with his claws, dealing damage to enemies in front of him and applying a bleed effect. If he hits an enemy affected by bleed, he deals bonus damage and refreshes the bleed duration.

 

Ability 4: Transformation - Lupus transforms into a werewolf, gaining increased health, armor, melee range and movement speed. He also gains access to new attacks and combos while in this form. He can toggle this ability on and off at will, but it drains energy over time while active.

[Mediloric]

I'm impressed it took this long to devolve into a Rev argument. 

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

18 hours ago, Loza03 said:

 

It's also worth acknowledging that Dracula did require soil from his homeland to thrive and heal, and had his own personal lair that only he could traverse and allow people to enter or leave (at least without great effort from the victim). Not exactly distant concepts to fusing oneself to a landscape to heal, or having a personal pocket dimension that only you can travel to and from to.

 

So you're saying.... 

Limbo is dracula frame confirmed?!

4 minutes ago, Mediloric said:

I'm impressed it took this long to devolve into a Rev argument. 

I'm surprised as well considering the argument went "Voruna should be more like a werewolf" 

"Oh no, Mr "Revenant is not theme accurate is targeting another frame, we better go stop him."

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

I decided to make Bing Ai ,( a derivative of chat GPT) make a werewolf frame: Here is a possible design for a Warframe that can shapeshift into a werewolf:

 

Name: Lupus

 

Passive: Feral Instinct - Lupus gains increased movement speed, melee damage and critical chance based on the amount of health he has lost.

 

Ability 1: Howl - Lupus unleashes a powerful howl that stuns nearby enemies and boosts the attack speed and armor of himself and his allies.

 

Ability 2: Lunge - Lupus leaps forward and bites an enemy, dealing damage and healing himself for a percentage of the damage dealt. If the enemy is killed by this ability, Lupus gains a stack of Bloodlust, increasing his damage and attack speed for a duration.

 

Ability 3: Shred - Lupus slashes with his claws, dealing damage to enemies in front of him and applying a bleed effect. If he hits an enemy affected by bleed, he deals bonus damage and refreshes the bleed duration.

 

Ability 4: Transformation - Lupus transforms into a werewolf, gaining increased health, armor, melee range and movement speed. He also gains access to new attacks and combos while in this form. He can toggle this ability on and off at will, but it drains energy over time while active.

I like that concept actually, full on feral in the base form with a werewolf form to enable at will. It really fits an Orokin design concept of something made for the purpose of war while still rocking a solid werewolf theme with shapeshifting. Reminds me of the clans in Werewolf the Apocalypse that never go human, they only exsist in different stages of the wolf form, ranging from stage 2 (stage 1 being normal human) to stage 5 (normal wolf). So this frame could either be at base stage 2 (wolfman) going stage 3 (huge biped werewolf) on transform, or base stage 3 going stage 4 (huge quadruped werewolf) on transform.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

16 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Because most of the thematic connections in Warframe range from fairly tangential to outright vague in the first place. Wisp uses obviously sci-fi stuff to achieve her ghost them (for example, her 3 lets her 'phase through walls' if you can see through them, by portal travel), and nothing about Loki's physical design and abilities is tangential at best (he never self-duplicates, and I can't find any references to him turning invisible, but I've not got the Eddas) but it still gets across the 'trickster' vibes. There's a few that are dead-on, of course - Wukong springs to mind, and Harrow to some degree although with all those chains his self-flagellation has... different and not very holy connotations, and in any case, those examples are the exception. But plenty either reference generic concepts (Tech, Ghost, Ice, Sword), or blends of concepts (Khora sports visual aesthetics from Dominatrixes, Spiders and Circus Animal tamers) or putting one visual concept on top of a different mechanical concept (A porcelain doll has no real connection to power over antimatter, yet Nova exists).

Vampires and Werewolves are not only are incredibly well-trodden and generic fantasy ground ripe for reimagining, they're fantasy ground with dozens of different definitions across the years. Even taking the 'turn into bats and sucking blood', do the Vampires in Twilight turn into bats? Colin Robinson from 'What we do in the Shadows' doesn't suck blood, but nobody questions that he's a Vampire. And I've already talked at length at how many massively different takes on werewolves exist (again, some of which Voruna actually hits pretty well), and much the same is true for Vampires. And all that's just European ideas of creatures rising from dead to feast on the living or people who turn into animals. What about Japan's Jubboko trees or Kitsune? 

So really, what you're complaining about is that Revenant and Voruna aren't exactly like the aesthetics set by western cinema less than a century ago, despite the fact that Digital Extremes has a long track record of not doing that, and that resulting in Warframe having one of the most unique visual identities in the modern gaming space.

Revenant and Voruna might not be particularly stunning and iconic Vampires and Werewolves, but the fantasy of playing a Vampire or a Werewolf exists in other games anyway. Instead, DE did something different. Revenant combines the mechanics of a vampire with the aesthetics of an existing form of Undead in the Warframe Universe, and Voruna is a humanoid wolf (a 'Were-Wolf') that draws upon common themes of wolf packs and hunting.

Revenant has an actual in lore connection to a specific faction of specific powers.

Voruna started with the question of a werewolf frame with a transformation.

Neither frame has any connection to either of those things in their abilities.

IDK why that’s so hard to understand. Instead you’d much rather go off on a whole philosophy tangent about “What really is an Eidolon or Werewolf” and “themes are only vague guidelines that should be interpreted in direct contradiction to the theme itself”.

Is it really so much of a sin to ask that the Eidolon Warframe have powers that reflect the Eidolon sentients of the plains of Eidolon within the game of Warframe, and not some mystically bloodsucker from a 100 year old book?

And is it really too much to ask for DE to not pull a 180 on a theme that they hyped up and then just not deliver on?

Seriously, you people make me feel like I’m some test subject in gaslighting experiments.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Leaving aside the folklore Dracula and Revenant are based on (wherein yes, basically every undead used to automatically be a vampire) my real point is you're looking at the wrong term. When you ask "where is my Eidolon frame?" DE responds "what are you talking about? The undead sentient vampire that enslaves things with ghostly energy and drinks the life force out of people is called Revenant"

What you have really wanted for the last four years, is "where is my TERRALYST frame?"

You have to understand, in the official style guide "Eidolon" is a broad category (undead Sentients with vampire theming) and "Eidolon Terralyst" is not one thing, it is two things (a Terralyst that is also an Eidolon). The official designation of Undead Lotus during the New War, is "EIDOLON Lotus"

This is why you've just been shouting at a forum made of brick walls for five years

The Eidolon sentients have a list of abilities both shown by them and described in lore. The Teralyst happens to be the biggest example of them. Tho the Ropalolyst was originally intended to be another Eidolon fight suggesting that there’s more Eidolons than Terry, Gary, and Harry and the Vomvalysts.

Also, Lotus becoming an Eidolon showcases that only Sentients can become Eidolons. Meaning Revenant would’ve had to have been turned sentient. Which means he should have more sentient like powers. Not Vampire themed powers.

[TARINunit9]

51 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Also, Lotus becoming an Eidolon showcases that only Sentients can become Eidolons. Meaning Revenant would’ve had to have been turned sentient. Which means he should have more sentient like powers. Not Vampire themed powers.

Ok now you just typing out nonsense. "He was turned into a Sentient" no you're just coping to justify your hatred of vampires. (And I checked the quest transcript to make sure)

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

7 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Ok now you just typing out nonsense. "He was turned into a Sentient" no you're just coping to justify your hatred of vampires. (And I checked the quest transcript to make sure)

Ok then. Name other undead, non-sentients that have turned into Eidolons.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Ok then. Name other undead, non-sentients that have turned into Eidolons.

Going strictly by the lore, Revenant wasn't turned into a Sentient and/or an Eidolon. He just died: Nakak poetically describes Warden/Revenant as being dragged to the underworld. Terry then carved Warden's/Revenant's corpse into a "mask"

Now let's look at things from a broader thematic perspective:

Why does Revenant have Eidolon Vampire Folklore powers? And why are those not contradictory? Because the devs say so. Their universe, because that's how writing works. It really is just that simple

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Revenant has an actual in lore connection to a specific faction of specific powers.

As I and other have pointed out, said specific faction isn't entirely disconnected from the Vampire theme in the first place, certainly within enough of the same fields to start with to be ripe ground for reinterpretation, even if the 'attach one visual theme to a different mechanical one' wasn't a well-established trend by the time Revenant released.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Voruna started with the question of a werewolf frame with a transformation.

Pretty sure it started with a question of if people wanted a werewolf frame. And even if that's not the case if we were stuck with the original questions, we'd never have gotten Warframes in the first place

1 hour ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

IDK why that’s so hard to understand. Instead you’d much rather go off on a whole philosophy tangent about “What really is an Eidolon or Werewolf” and “themes are only vague guidelines that should be interpreted in direct contradiction to the theme itself”.

Because the former philosophy informs all design, and I didn't say jack about the latter, I said that plenty of themes in Warframe are vague, tangiential and frequently redefined in the creative process, citing multiple examples.  To address the former in more detail, if you don't ask the question of 'What is X' as well as the related 'Why is X' when you're designing something, you're only going to produce extremely surface level tropes and stereotypes, and if they've been around long enough, chances are those tropes and stereotypes aren't doing what they're supposed to do anymore due to cultural drift.

For example, why do vampires not appear in mirrors? Because mirrors are made of a holy metal... except silver isn't as ubiquitously considered holy in the modern day (doubly with how increasingly-secular the world is), and Mirrors aren't made of silver anymore. Except, well, that's the trope, so vampires can't be seen in mirrors in media to this day even though it makes absolutely no thematic sense. In reverse, the Castlevania anime takes some time to discuss the 'Crosses and Vampires' when Sypha points out that a 'Sign of the Cross' weapon developed in India makes no sense because Hindu Vampires, and Trevor comments that it's actually due to differences in vampire vision and the cross being a geometric shape that startles their predator brains. One of these things is an example of writing from people who asked questions about themes and tropes (in this case to justify one, but abandoning irrelevant themes is also common), and the other is from people who don't. Even Stephanie Myer realised that she had to cull certain Vampire tropes to better address other themes and goals, much to the rest of the world's despair. Stephanie Myer.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Is it really so much of a sin to ask that the Eidolon Warframe have powers that reflect the Eidolon sentients of the plains of Eidolon within the game of Warframe, and not some mystically bloodsucker from a 100 year old book?

please dont tell me you actually think bram stoker invented vampires this must be hyperbole

And, no, but boring design is, and saying that if something has one theme, it can only have that one theme and only in one way is a very good way for design to get boring.

2 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

And is it really too much to ask for DE to not pull a 180 on a theme that they hyped up and then just not deliver on?

In Revenant's case, I distinctly remember it, and they hyped up both the vampire and the eidolon parts pretty equally, and Voruna is just straight up the theme they hyped up, it's just that theme encompasses more than a Hollywood B-movie from 90-ish years ago.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

18 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Going strictly by the lore, Revenant wasn't turned into a Sentient and/or an Eidolon. He just died: Nakak poetically describes Warden/Revenant as being dragged to the underworld. Terry then carved Warden's/Revenant's corpse into a "mask"

Now let's look at things from a broader thematic perspective:

Why does Revenant have Eidolon Vampire Folklore powers? And why are those not contradictory? Because the devs say so. Their universe, because that's how writing works. It really is just that simple

He got dragged into the Eidolons pocket dimension where they tried to rebuild themselves off of him. How tf did you take what was clearly stated as “poetic description of just dying”.

14 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

As I and other have pointed out, said specific faction isn't entirely disconnected from the Vampire theme in the first place, certainly within enough of the same fields to start with to be ripe ground for reinterpretation, even if the 'attach one visual theme to a different mechanical one' wasn't a well-established trend by the time Revenant released.

Pretty sure it started with a question of if people wanted a werewolf frame. And even if that's not the case if we were stuck with the original questions, we'd never have gotten Warframes in the first place

Because the former philosophy informs all design, and I didn't say jack about the latter, I said that plenty of themes in Warframe are vague, tangiential and frequently redefined in the creative process, citing multiple examples.  To address the former in more detail, if you don't ask the question of 'What is X' as well as the related 'Why is X' when you're designing something, you're only going to produce extremely surface level tropes and stereotypes, and if they've been around long enough, chances are those tropes and stereotypes aren't doing what they're supposed to do anymore due to cultural drift.

For example, why do vampires not appear in mirrors? Because mirrors are made of a holy metal... except silver isn't as ubiquitously considered holy in the modern day (doubly with how increasingly-secular the world is), and Mirrors aren't made of silver anymore. Except, well, that's the trope, so vampires can't be seen in mirrors in media to this day even though it makes absolutely no thematic sense. In reverse, the Castlevania anime takes some time to discuss the 'Crosses and Vampires' when Sypha points out that a 'Sign of the Cross' weapon developed in India makes no sense because Hindu Vampires, and Trevor comments that it's actually due to differences in vampire vision and the cross being a geometric shape that startles their predator brains. One of these things is an example of writing from people who asked questions about themes and tropes (in this case to justify one, but abandoning irrelevant themes is also common), and the other is from people who don't. Even Stephanie Myer realised that she had to cull certain Vampire tropes to better address other themes and goals, much to the rest of the world's despair. Stephanie Myer.

please dont tell me you actually think bram stoker invented vampires this must be hyperbole

And, no, but boring design is, and saying that if something has one theme, it can only have that one theme and only in one way is a very good way for design to get boring.

In Revenant's case, I distinctly remember it, and they hyped up both the vampire and the eidolon parts pretty equally, and Voruna is just straight up the theme they hyped up, it's just that theme encompasses more than a Hollywood B-movie from 90-ish years ago.

Dude I’m not reading all that. Flat out I’m just not. If you have to right a college thesis paper to counter what I’m arguing with vastly less words that it’s pretty obvious you are vastly overthinking all of this. You’re going off on tangents about mirrors and Hindu religion. How tf does any of that relate to undead robots that shoot lasers?

[(XBOX)Rez090]

On 2023-05-11 at 11:44 PM, Greedygreen said:

Revenant is definitely not a vampire, garuda fits vampire more than him, heck even Trinity is more vampiric.

Oof, totally wrong on all three descriptions.

[Loza03]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Dude I’m not reading all that. Flat out I’m just not. If you have to right a college thesis paper to counter what I’m arguing with vastly less words that it’s pretty obvious you are vastly overthinking all of this.

If you don't ask questions when designing, your design will be boring, DE noticed an opportunity to reimagine something and did, that's a good thing, and they were honest about it.

 

There, 31 words and the response could fit in a Tweet. And like most Tweets it leaves out a ton of information, nuance and examples, but since when were any of those things important for intellectual discussion or an interesting, curious mind open to new information and experiences anyway?

[(PSN)clary_pangs]

nothing lunatic? but luna is lua and she was introduced in lua's prey xD

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

17 hours ago, Loza03 said:

If you don't ask questions when designing, your design will be boring, DE noticed an opportunity to reimagine something and did, that's a good thing, and they were honest about it.

 

There, 31 words and the response could fit in a Tweet. And like most Tweets it leaves out a ton of information, nuance and examples, but since when were any of those things important for intellectual discussion or an interesting, curious mind open to new information and experiences anyway?

Rebecca literally just ignored the Eidolon theme entirely and made vampire powers because she likes vampires. Reimagining things to the point where you’ve completely lost the plot and aren’t even making theme appropriate abilities for the frame should be an obvious sign that you’re not doing your job correctly.

[Circle_of_Psi]

I'm honestly fine with what we have now, but it will be nice to have a actual werewolf 

[SneakyErvin]

I'm still amazed about Gears obsession. I mean the concept of Rev isnt hard to grasp.

Vampire themed frame made by the Orokin.

Orokin Vampire themed frame goes to earth.

Frame fights Eidolons night after night.

Frame sacrifices itself to lock Eidolons from the plains.

Operator at some point dies.

Eidolon tries to use the frame as a proxy.

Frame gets "corrupted" much like Eidolons from the same source i.e the fallout of Gara's bomb and the death of the sentient.

Frame is now effectively an Eidolon that also retains the basic arsenal of the frame as design by the Orokin, just as the eidolon have powers that are of sentient nature, not some specific eidolon arsenal. What seperates eidolons from other sentients is that they are sentient in the same way as a zombie would be considered sentient compared to a human, and that they wield massive ship sized weaponry and armaments, which isnt a shocker since they are only parts of a massive ship sized sentient, that for some reason have managed to come alive or well undead.

And since the eidolon havent changed much compared to normal sentients, why should Rev have some specific eidolon ability kit? He has enough that shown the eidolon theme, by having eidolon inspired visuals on some skills.