What is “Soulsframe?”

[Felsagger]

2 hours ago, FadeToNull said:

Fel, the guy is agreeing with you.

I'll try rephrasing what he said.

DrBorris, paraphrased:

By today's standards, Warframe doesn't have the best graphical fidelity. But it has a great art style. I appreciate artistic presentation more than graphical fidelity.

He recognizes that the graphics are average but has a great art style. He said he doesn't care about graphics. 

But I do. 

[DrBorris]

33 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

average

WHAT DOES THIS EVEN MEAN

Sorry to be so loud, but you keep saying this word, you keep using it in a derogatory way, but all you've done to describe "average" is as a description of a game that isn't aiming for realistic graphics. To say you're just expressing your opinion about graphics is cow poo, you've been dev bashing and criticizing players for 'settling' for "average." You've made out Horizon to be an objectively superior game because it has higher fidelity graphics, whenever someone brings up anything about Warframe's future anyplace on these Forums you throw around videos/images as if Warframe is a failure because it isn't doing what this other game did. 

I care a lot about graphics, the way a game looks plays a major part in how I enjoy games. But I have a bit more nuance to my taste than "it looks real, therefore good." 

 

Warframe has great graphics, it doesn't have the highest fidelity graphics but that isn't the only way a game can look great. There have been plenty of games with high fidelity (for a recent example, Forspoken) that most have agreed look downright ugly. There have been games with far fewer polygons that look better than Warframe. Trying to make an objective assessment of something that is intrinsically subjective is inane, either use "graphics" as a descriptor with no inherent value or understand that it isn't something you can prove to be better/worse, stop doing both. 

[FadeToNull]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

He recognizes that the graphics are average but has a great art style. He said he doesn't care about graphics. 

But I do.

Ah ok. I guess I misunderstood. mb

[Felsagger]

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

WHAT DOES THIS EVEN MEAN

Not bad. 

Not great. 

 

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

Sorry to be so loud, but you keep saying this word, you keep using it in a derogatory way,

How can that be derogatory? It is what it is. 

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

but all you've done to describe "average" is as a description of a game that isn't aiming for realistic graphics.

The term average is used as a game that runs in a greater number of platforms. NSW, PS4, PS5, Xbox One, Xbox Series S, PC (Range of video cards, Ram, Rom, MP, Memory, Memory streaming)

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

To say you're just expressing your opinion about graphics is cow poo

This is your subjectivity. It is irrelevant.

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

, you've been dev bashing and criticizing players for 'settling' for "average."

Completely false. 

Saying that the game is average is not a derogation. It's a declaration where the developers are and where is the studio aiming. In simple terms they are not heading towards open worlds with high level of detail. When DE considered the IOS phone such possibility is discarded. 

 

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

You've made out Horizon to be an objectively superior game because it has higher fidelity graphics, whenever someone brings up anything about Warframe's future anyplace on these Forums you throw around videos/images as if Warframe is a failure because it isn't doing what this other game did. 

Horizon Zero dawn is a superior game in graphics, storytelling, game play mechanics, character development, animation, illumination, level of detail. 

That is a proven fact.  However this doesn't make warframe a failure. I'm stating what Warframe will never be and what the game could have been if DE where focusing only on PC and PS5 instead of a greater number of consoles with low end capabilities. 

How is that derogatory? It's the truth. 

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

I care a lot about graphics, the way a game looks plays a major part in how I enjoy games. But I have a bit more nuance to my taste than "it looks real, therefore good."

Horizon encompasses graphics AND gameplay. 

Another example of melee combat is God of War Ragnarok. This game is superior in graphics AND game play mechanics. 

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

Warframe has great graphics

Only in your dreams. 

Yes. 

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

, it doesn't have the highest fidelity graphics but that isn't the only way a game can look great.

We already know that. Artistic license and style. Horizon Zero has that too. 

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

Trying to make an objective assessment of something that is intrinsically subjective is inane, either use "graphics" as a descriptor with no inherent value or understand that it isn't something you can prove to be better/worse, stop doing both. 

Who is making an objective assessment here? I am simply stating that DE graphics and game play evolution will remain average with no capability to improve as fast as the next generation games for console or PC IF IOS phones are considered. 

 

Simple. You have to deal with this reality. It's hard to accept it. It is what it is. 

 

[SneakyErvin]

23 hours ago, Felsagger said:

The IOS phones IS the floor hardware from now on.

Mmm clearly when the game already supports hardware older than the game more or less.

21 hours ago, FadeToNull said:

Fel, the guy is agreeing with you.

I'll try rephrasing what he said.

DrBorris, paraphrased:

By today's standards, Warframe doesn't have the best graphical fidelity. But it has a great art style. I appreciate artistic presentation more than graphical fidelity.

He will never understand that, since he ignores that point no matter whom it comes from. If things doesnt have all the bells and whistles it is a bad game according to him. Which is why he dodges any mention of games like Valheim etc. Games that would according to him look horrible and not be playable or successful at all.

[Felsagger]

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Mmm clearly when the game already supports hardware older than the game more or less.

IOS tech progress, of course it progress but never at the capability of a game dedicated device such as a household console OR a game dedicated personal computer. 

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

He will never understand that, since he ignores that point no matter whom it comes from.

Skipping the posts in the thread in your favor doesn't work. Selective reading for your classical trolling is very easy to spot. 

Fade to null wrote. "Ah ok. I guess I misunderstood. mb""

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

If things doesnt have all the bells and whistles it is a bad game according to him.

Baiting members with obvious false remarks doesn't make your statement more valid. 

It's a good swedish strategy but well known in the forum boards. 

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Which is why he dodges any mention of games like Valheim etc. Games that would according to him look horrible and not be playable or successful at all.

How can I dodge the argument?

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE GAME VALHEIM. I don't care about it either. I can't speak about things I do not know or play. 

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Felsagger said:

IOS tech progress, of course it progress but never at the capability of a game dedicated device such as a household console OR a game dedicated personal computer. 

Phones like PCs progress every year, with 1-2 models or so per generation dedicated to gaming. Consoles arent even brand new the year they release since they are still behind a PC, and the phones are also catching up on the latest generation of consoles before a new generation is ready to release (which is years and years down the line). And this is before we actually start to view the concept of actual gaming phones on android, like the ROG phones and so on.

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Baiting members with obvious false remarks doesn't make your statement more valid. 

Then why are you more or less spam posting videos of the same unrelated single player game? You are clearly only concerned about graphics and dont really consider why the graphics are better in a brand new game with a narrower hardware requirement compared to a 10 year old game that allows people with 10+ year old rigs to play it aswell. 

[Felsagger]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

Phones like PCs progress every year, with 1-2 models or so per generation dedicated to gaming. Consoles arent even brand new the year they release since they are still behind a PC, and the phones are also catching up on the latest generation of consoles before a new generation is ready to release (which is years and years down the line). And this is before we actually start to view the concept of actual gaming phones on android, like the ROG phones and so on.

Everything progresses in this world. 

The issue here is CAPABILITY OF THE DEVICE.  

Problem with this reasoning of yours. IOS phones ARE NOT GAME DEDICATED DEVICES. 

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

Then why are you more or less spam posting videos of the same unrelated single player game? You are clearly only concerned about graphics and dont really consider why the graphics are better in a brand new game with a narrower hardware requirement compared to a 10 year old game that allows people with 10+ year old rigs to play it aswell. 

Because it irks you and tells you how your favorite game sucks?  That's not it. 

I am making a statement of what IOS phones can't do. 

 

[SneakyErvin]

14 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

The issue here is CAPABILITY OF THE DEVICE.  

Problem with this reasoning of yours. IOS phones ARE NOT GAME DEDICATED DEVICES. 

And the capability of the device is enough, hence why they suddenly surpass consoles or older generations of PCs during a "console cycle".

Yes they are. Each generation comes with versions dedicated for gaming. And companies as mentioned also create gaming phones. And you can just see it in Immortal, where there were PCs of the same age as those used to play WF that were not meeting minumum requirements to play it, at the same times the phones that were available and supported had no issues with the game. So if they were to allow those old PC to play Immortal and develop the game to cater to them, then those generations of PCs would be the floor. And PCs in Immortal were still the floor since they allowed older PCs to play it. So in WF that reaches further back regarding compatible PCs, the phones will be far above the floor.

edit: And under the floor boards NSW will still be present with further potential limitations aswell as certification process ontop of that. So there is a very very far gap between the floor level and phones. You practically cannot get phones old enough anymore to set a floor lower than NSW or really old PCs really.

[Zimzala]

57 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE GAME VALHEIM. I don't care about it either. 

Many here don't play Horizon Zero Dawn or care about it at all, yet you won't shut up about it, but no one else is allowed to do the same?

You seem to actually think everyone here has to agree with your opinions as objective fact and at the same time try to claim anyone talking about anything you don't agree with with is objectively wrong.

You jump right to claims of emotional tirades over not liking what you say about WF, to having emotional tirades over your opinions not being accepted as objective facts.

Are you even listening to yourself? It's transparent, sophomoric, and to use one of your favorite descriptors of the ideas and outlooks of others, 'dumb'.

I know you won't stop, and that's awesome, because I still get a good laugh with my morning coffee.

We get it. WF is inferior in your mind to our favorite game(s).

So what?

Happy Gaming.

[Felsagger]

23 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Many here don't play Horizon Zero Dawn or care about it at all, yet you won't shut up about it, but no one else is allowed to do the same?

You seem to actually think everyone here has to agree with your opinions as objective fact and at the same time try to claim anyone talking about anything you don't agree with with is objectively wrong.

You jump right to claims of emotional tirades over not liking what you say about WF, to having emotional tirades over your opinions not being accepted as objective facts.

Are you even listening to yourself? It's transparent, sophomoric, and to use one of your favorite descriptors of the ideas and outlooks of others, 'dumb'.

I know you won't stop, and that's awesome, because I still get a good laugh with my morning coffee.

We get it. WF is inferior in your mind to our favorite game(s).

So what?

Happy Gaming.

 

How about if tell you that I enjoyed Warframe and I do care for the game. 

But then, expressing my opinion doesn't change your enjoyment and your mindset about the game. That is yours. You enjoy what you like. That's perfectly fair. But I have my set of ideas and my way of thinking. You always come with discharges against users. Rarely you speak about the game. 

No one's opinion is an objective fact. The only objective fact here is history and what happened. Here we simply make suppositions and speak about the game in our ways. Sometimes we are happy with what we have and sometimes not. 

Either way, have a nice day and carry on enjoying Warframe with your alternate rant account. 

[Stormandreas]

It's just DE's Soulslike game they are making.

Basically, what you've played in Duviri (if you've played it), but made into a full game.....

[Felsagger]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And the capability of the device is enough, hence why they suddenly surpass consoles or older generations of PCs during a "console cycle".

That's true. Current phones are far better than older console generations. Eventually portable phones will surpass the PS5 doing exactly what Horizon Zero Forbidden west is doing right now. 

Yes that's correct but the question here is when. When such events will take place? Phones are not game dedicated machines at the level of current consoles. Expensive phones that are around 1200 dollars are not game dedicated like a classical household console that costs costs less like a PS5. 

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yes they are. Each generation comes with versions dedicated for gaming.

No current phone game could run Horizon Zero Forbidden west or Horizon Zero Burning Shores (A PS5 content exclusive)

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And companies as mentioned also create gaming phones.

These are very expensive. Who is the average user of these phones and what budget they have? 

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And you can just see it in Immortal, where there were PCs of the same age as those used to play WF that were not meeting minumum requirements to play it, at the same times the phones that were available and supported had no issues with the game. So if they were to allow those old PC to play Immortal and develop the game to cater to them, then those generations of PCs would be the floor. And PCs in Immortal were still the floor since they allowed older PCs to play it. So in WF that reaches further back regarding compatible PCs, the phones will be far above the floor.

Ram memory is a significant factor in game design. PCs and next generation consoles can keep the pace but not older hardwares. 

 

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

edit: And under the floor boards NSW will still be present with further potential limitations aswell as certification process ontop of that. So there is a very very far gap between the floor level and phones. You practically cannot get phones old enough anymore to set a floor lower than NSW or really old PCs really.

Right now, can you run Horizon Zero on a GAMING phone? 

[Felsagger]

36 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

It's just DE's Soulslike game they are making.

Basically, what you've played in Duviri (if you've played it), but made into a full game.....

Duviri is not bad at all. Some people liked it. I am sure that the next game DE is making will not be bad either but two GAAS F2P games takes a lot of time I don't have. I barely can play video games lately. 

[FadeToNull]

40 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

It's just DE's Soulslike game they are making.

Basically, what you've played in Duviri (if you've played it), but made into a full game.....

Yeah, I've played Duviri. Been enjoying it. It's pretty fun. Props to DE for trying something different.

[Felsagger]

1 minute ago, FadeToNull said:

Yeah, I've played Duviri. Been enjoying it. It's pretty fun. Props to DE for trying something different.

That's fair. They tried and succeeded giving a new experience. After all the updates, Duviri is performing way better. 

 

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, Stormandreas said:

It's just DE's Soulslike game they are making.

It's still not a soulslike, and Duviri isn't one either.

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, Felsagger said:

That's true. Current phones are far better than older console generations. Eventually portable phones will surpass the PS5 doing exactly what Horizon Zero Forbidden west is doing right now. 

Yes that's correct but the question here is when. When such events will take place? Phones are not game dedicated machines at the level of current consoles. Expensive phones that are around 1200 dollars are not game dedicated like a classical household console that costs costs less like a PS5. 

No current phone game could run Horizon Zero Forbidden west or Horizon Zero Burning Shores (A PS5 content exclusive)

These are very expensive. Who is the average user of these phones and what budget they have? 

Ram memory is a significant factor in game design. PCs and next generation consoles can keep the pace but not older hardwares. 

 

Right now, can you run Horizon Zero on a GAMING phone? 

When? Each year phones catch up. Also, who actually cares about the price? Most people that care to game on a phone will likely need it for other things aswell, so they very likely get the phone for "free" with a payment plan for calls/sms/mms and internet.

And of course no phone can run Horizon, since well it isnt ported, which also answers your last question. Just as there are several games you cannot play on consoles or PC since they simply arent ported.

Though my point is simply that phones will never be the floor when consoles are included because the phones will surpass consoles, more notably consoles like NSW, before a new console generation is released. And a dev can never change minimum console requirements before a new generation is out, but with phones and PC they can in practice do it yearly if they so wanted since that is the frequency of new hardware releases. The only time a phone would be the floor is in a setting where the game will only run on PC and phones and the hardware requirement is narrow. The moment it opens up to old PC generations the phone will no longer be the floor.

 

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

14 hours ago, Corvid said:

It's still not a soulslike, and Duviri isn't one either.

It's not soulslike either to someone who is legally blind or does not know what a soulslike it.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

It's not soulslike either to someone who is legally blind or does not know what a soulslike it.

What if you're illegally blind?

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

It's not soulslike either to someone who is legally blind or does not know what a soulslike it.

So you find Duviri punishing, challenging, requires active dodging and stamina management between offense and defense? And here I sit and do a roll here and there to close gaps then cleave or smash Dax with heavy attack spamming with zero decrees in SP.

Yus, clearly soulslike. /s

[Felsagger]

Well, not everybody likes Duviri, Ervin. 

[cute_moth.npc]

On 2023-05-23 at 6:31 AM, Felsagger said:

Because it irks you and tells you how your favorite game sucks?  That's not it. 

I was playing Horizon Zero last night and it actually kind of really surprised me how bad the AI is. Like seriously, you can clear bandit camps by baiting enemy alert levels and just headshotting each bandit when they all walk through the same door in sequence, piling up dead bodies and they're too dumb to figure it out. Don't even get me started on sneaking around the robots.. Literally actually too easy, except for the ones with the built in radar.

The rest of the game is amazing, especially the story progression and how much character interaction there is but I was kind of expecting smarter enemies lol.

[ant99999]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

It's not soulslike either to someone who is legally blind or does not know what a soulslike it.

If Duviri us soulslike, then half of all games using melee combat has to be by your standarts. Monster Hunter is soulslike. Chivalry is soulslike. Guild Wars 2 is soulslike. Shadow Warriror 2 is soulslike, etc.

Maybe it's not us who's legally blind but you who's seeing things?

[Felsagger]

25 minutes ago, cute_moth.npc said:

I was playing Horizon Zero last night and it actually kind of really surprised me how bad the AI is. Like seriously, you can clear bandit camps by baiting enemy alert levels and just headshotting each bandit when they all walk through the same door in sequence, piling up dead bodies and they're too dumb to figure it out. Don't even get me started on sneaking around the robots.. Literally actually too easy, except for the ones with the built in radar.

Well PS2 A.I. Warframe enemies run in circles. 

I know that HZFB and HZ Burning Shores have issues in the A.I.. But in difficult levels things are more demanding. 

25 minutes ago, cute_moth.npc said:

The rest of the game is amazing, especially the story progression and how much character interaction there is but I was kind of expecting smarter enemies lol.

Well, Horizon Zero Dawn Burning shores and Forbidden west have those issues. I recognize that.