time to unerf kuva zarr and bramma?

[Vaml77]

I ask this because these weapons in circuit mode have become practically useless or unfeasible. And with the absence of pets it becomes even more difficult to maintain the weapon's ammunition.

[Tiltskillet]

I think Circuit is extra stingy with ammo, perhaps even more than the lack of container drops would imply.  In any case it seems much more logical to address the general problem in the Circuit than to patch up two specific weapons because of the Circuit.

[Circle_of_Psi]

No

[taiiat]

51 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I think Circuit is extra stingy with ammo, perhaps even more than the lack of container drops would imply.  In any case it seems much more logical to address the general problem in the Circuit than to patch up two specific weapons because of the Circuit.

yeah, while there is stuff to address with some of these Weapons overall, anything Circuit/Undercroft specific is just a reminder that Circuit should just have significantly elevated Ammo drops from Enemies because the mode is supposed to be about using random stuff and completing tasks with it, which i don't think Ammunition should really be a part of.
this is a mode where you're potentially going to be using Weapons with kinda crap Mod loadouts (like, basically any Weapon that you don't own), meaning subpar DPS..... and so there should be a higher abundance of Ammo here, rather than less.

on that note i'd probably even say Hit Counter should be more generous by default in the Undercroft, for the same reason that any Weapon you don't own will probably have mediocre Modding. atleast an extended default timer, if not also maybe artificially increasing your Hit gains.

Edited June 19, 2023 by taiiat

[Pizzarugi]

So just because it sucks in Duviri, it should become a staple skill crutch again for content everywhere else in the game?

[AntifreezeUnder0]

I mean there probably should be revisit of the aoe nerf to include ''the new'' aoe toys who are pretty much close to former zarr, bramma and ogriss.

[Frendh]

Like mentioned previously, I think it is better to increase the ammo drops in some way in Undercroft rather than buffing said weapons.

[Mr.Holyroller]

Im convinced they're never going to un-nerf any AOE weapons.
DE has no sense of weapon balance.
I still can't believe how OP Glaive Prime remains to be and how strong some of these incarnon genesis adapted weapons are while REAL aoe weapons are basically garbage now because of their ammo capacity.

I'd also like to throw in that they killed Trinity's link like 4 years ago because of the self-damage abuse and they've never brought it back to being a decent skill since them.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Mr.Holyroller

[Tiltskillet]

51 minutes ago, taiiat said:

yeah, while there is stuff to address with some of these Weapons overall, anything Circuit/Undercroft specific is just a reminder that Circuit should just have significantly elevated Ammo drops from Enemies because the mode is supposed to be about using random stuff and completing tasks with it, which i don't think Ammunition should really be a part of.

I'm sure that's a factor too, but I think there's more to it.  Even when I have great weapons, I'm running into more ammo problems against enemies that I kill about as quickly outside Circuit.

Some of it is the lack of containers.  There's also a bug I've run into twice that prevents picking up ammo.   But I'm also wondering if Dax (for instance) are coded to have proper ammo drops.

[KitMeHarder]

Even if DE thought that rolling back those changes were warranted, they basically never revert nerfs to things that were nerfed because of high usage rates. You'd be better off asking them to unnerf Merciless arcanes.

1 hour ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

I mean there probably should be revisit of the aoe nerf to include ''the new'' aoe toys who are pretty much close to former zarr, bramma and ogriss.

Not even close. They're powerful, but they neither have the coverage nor the complete lack of pacing. The ammo changes were put in place so you could still use your strong weapons, but you'd then have to fall back on your melee/secondary from time to time. Incarnon weapons already have this baked-in, with their need to build precision charges.

[taiiat]

6 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I'm sure that's a factor too, but I think there's more to it.  Even when I have great weapons, I'm running into more ammo problems against enemies that I kill about as quickly outside Circuit.

Some of it is the lack of containers.  There's also a bug I've run into twice that prevents picking up ammo.   But I'm also wondering if Dax (for instance) are coded to have proper ammo drops.

tbh i wouldn't even bother trying to find what the actual problem is, i'd just like, triple the Ammo drop rate for Enemies in the Undercroft and call it a job well done
fix'd

4 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

Not even close. They're powerful, but they neither have the coverage nor the complete lack of pacing. The ammo changes were put in place so you could still use your strong weapons, but you'd then have to fall back on your melee/secondary from time to time. Incarnon weapons already have this baked-in, with their need to build precision charges.

Mutation still doesn't work to support this, so it still doesn't work. i switch away from my Ammo limited Weapon to use my other, switch back literally several Minutes later, still haven't refilled my Ammo yet because it didn't pick up the damn Ammo that i Walked over.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

29 minutes ago, taiiat said:

Mutation still doesn't work to support this, so it still doesn't work. i switch away from my Ammo limited Weapon to use my other, switch back literally several Minutes later, still haven't refilled my Ammo yet because it didn't pick up the damn Ammo that i Walked over.

catch22

out of ammo means swap to other weapon

mutation only works when wielding the weapon in question

.......

?what if it were changed so that Mutations were always in effect regardless of holstering?

Say, I'm wielding a secondary and pick up secondary ammo, my primary mutation steals half off it. (or would it be better to have it Clone half the ammo? with no downside? might be OP)

[KitMeHarder]

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

Mutation still doesn't work to support this

I'm just reiterating DE's logic, I'm not saying whether or not it's completely sound.

Personally, I think what they did in Veil Breaker was very overkill in regards to ammo.

[taiiat]

15 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

catch22
out of ammo means swap to other weapon
mutation only works when wielding the weapon in question

?what if it were changed so that Mutations were always in effect regardless of holstering?
Say, I'm wielding a secondary and pick up secondary ammo, my primary mutation steals half off it. (or would it be better to have it Clone half the ammo? with no downside? might be OP)

the last / first time i brought this up, i'm pretty sure my behavior adjustment at the time was something like when the other Weapon is full then convert Ammo.
so it's always active but Ammo is preferred towards the thing you're holding first to ensure that Mutation doesn't starve other Weapons.

but whatever the solution, clearly it isn't working right now since i'm not getting my Ammo, it's still sitting on the Ground.