PVP and Clan PVP Brainstorm

[SpeedoDragon]

So I'd like to hear what other people have to say about their PVP experience whether new or old.

Personally I find PVP to be overly chaotic and boring. It's boring because their isn't a lot of thought that goes into in terms of methodical strategy. The basis of it is jump around in an unpredictable manner, shoot at others doing the same, sometimes use melee mostly for the ground slam stagger. For conclave based PVP I think variety in playstyles should be viable. Maybe it's because the game has been increasing in speed but I find it hard to think instead of react. I suggest reducing overall movement in PVP and adding melee counters against both melee attacks and ranged. If you strike at someone and they time a block and then quickly attack it will deflect your weapon and stagger you slightly but if you also block as soon as they attack you can have a sort of back and forth until someone messes up or they roll away. If you strike them with a heavy attack and they block it instead pushes them back while still in guard.

As for Clan PVP ideas, with the new Railjack system being a thing, Clans could compete for Resource Nodes that pop up randomly in the Observatory that you can access from a separate panel. Maybe a random asteroid pops up and your Clan Leaders can deploy your Clan Flagship to mine it but if there is already a Clan there you begin Railjack war to destroy each others Flagships. It could be done so that every member whether online or not will have their Railjack piloted by their Crew while Tenno have to sabotage the enemy Flagship or Steal the Resources being Collected. This could also be an hour long event and each Clan Tier has it's own league to avoid Large Clans bullying Smaller Clans and the same Going for Alliances. It could be a Free For All invasion allowing multiple Clans to join in to either Plunder or Takeover the Node. Having a Mercenary System where lone Tenno or Clans can assist another clan for a Payout predetermined by the hiring Clan. The Flagship could have have a Hired Crew of Operators purchased in a separate terminal but similar to the Railjack Crew. Maybe allow for the donation of non prime weapons from Clan Members. After the Flagship of the Defending Clan is destroyed the first Clan that intiated the fight can take it's place allowing for the fight to continue until the node is depleted, sending the defeated clan home, requiring them to repair their Flagship at no additional cost but requires time to do so they can't just return to the same node out of spite.

Unrelated to this sort of, maybe allow the Barracks to have a terminal that allows all the functions that the Orbiter has such as Foundry, Incubator, Ext. and allowing Members to Spawn into the Clan when they boot up the game. I'd want this because my Clan is like my Home in this game and the only reason most people do hangout there is because of the inconvenience of having to first load up the Clan or needing to return to their Orbiter to do stuff.

[Sporthand]

2 hours ago, SpeedoDragon said:

So I'd like to hear what other people have to say about their PVP experience whether new or old.

Personally I find PVP to be overly chaotic and boring. It's boring because their isn't a lot of thought that goes into in terms of methodical strategy. The basis of it is jump around in an unpredictable manner, shoot at others doing the same, sometimes use melee mostly for the ground slam stagger. For conclave based PVP I think variety in playstyles should be viable. Maybe it's because the game has been increasing in speed but I find it hard to think instead of react. I suggest reducing overall movement in PVP and adding melee counters against both melee attacks and ranged. If you strike at someone and they time a block and then quickly attack it will deflect your weapon and stagger you slightly but if you also block as soon as they attack you can have a sort of back and forth until someone messes up or they roll away. If you strike them with a heavy attack and they block it instead pushes them back while still in guard.

As for Clan PVP ideas, with the new Railjack system being a thing, Clans could compete for Resource Nodes that pop up randomly in the Observatory that you can access from a separate panel. Maybe a random asteroid pops up and your Clan Leaders can deploy your Clan Flagship to mine it but if there is already a Clan there you begin Railjack war to destroy each others Flagships. It could be done so that every member whether online or not will have their Railjack piloted by their Crew while Tenno have to sabotage the enemy Flagship or Steal the Resources being Collected. This could also be an hour long event and each Clan Tier has it's own league to avoid Large Clans bullying Smaller Clans and the same Going for Alliances. It could be a Free For All invasion allowing multiple Clans to join in to either Plunder or Takeover the Node. Having a Mercenary System where lone Tenno or Clans can assist another clan for a Payout predetermined by the hiring Clan. The Flagship could have have a Hired Crew of Operators purchased in a separate terminal but similar to the Railjack Crew. Maybe allow for the donation of non prime weapons from Clan Members. After the Flagship of the Defending Clan is destroyed the first Clan that intiated the fight can take it's place allowing for the fight to continue until the node is depleted, sending the defeated clan home, requiring them to repair their Flagship at no additional cost but requires time to do so they can't just return to the same node out of spite.

Unrelated to this sort of, maybe allow the Barracks to have a terminal that allows all the functions that the Orbiter has such as Foundry, Incubator, Ext. and allowing Members to Spawn into the Clan when they boot up the game. I'd want this because my Clan is like my Home in this game and the only reason most people do hangout there is because of the inconvenience of having to first load up the Clan or needing to return to their Orbiter to do stuff.

Hello, I am thinking of indirect competition with PVP rather than direct competition since Warframes is a way too powerful warriors. 
We can compete with kill counts every match. A player leads kill counts and receives a clan score of +3, while others get +2, +1, +1. A player receives penalized a clan score of -1 per death count.
 

Gathering resources can be a competitive match. The clan might require over 2 million materials before a week's deadline. 
The top 3 tiers clans received abundant rewards and were praised by pressing 'F' from other players. The praising players also received a small amount of tips.

Clan dojo participation is also significant, so the dojo clan's founders must decorate to make the dojo clan attractive and increase the number of visitors.

That's my small cents! 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Sporthand

[SpeedoDragon]

This could be combined with the Railjack wars I was talking about. Instead of directly fighting we could sabotage each others Flagship while also fighting off defending AI Railjacks. it could use the Crews of the Tenno in the Clan and their load outs. And the Flagship could be defended by one of the main Factions.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

How about Clans can compete for Control of different starchart Nodes?

and any other Tenno who play missions on those nodes have to pay a portion of mission rewards as 'tax' to the owning clan?

 

(its kinda like the Lich influenced nodes, but Other Tenno instead owning them).

[(PSN)Lollybomb]

You're just proposing to bring back Solar Rails, but with railjack.  Splitting it up by clan tier is unlikely to help anything.  The core problem is that there are too many clans to implement a system where a fixed number of groups (4 tiers times the number of nodes) get all the payout for winning, and everyone else gets nothing.  You're either the best of the best in your group, or you might as well not bother.  So, for roughly 99% of the playerbase, they might as well not bother.  Doesn't seem like a system that's worth diverting development time towards.

Also the idea of trying to compete for general nodes across the starchart is terrible.  The Lich system is opt in.  You've agreed to that tax.  Just being forced to give up some of your mission rewards just because some bigger clan did something entirely unrelated?  Terrible idea.

[(PSN)Unstar]

Tried PvP, it felt like playing something from the original Counterstrike era that wasn't at the level of quality of a game like Counterstrike.  Didn't go back, doesn't seem to be Warframe's strong suit.

Edited August 23, 2023 by (PSN)Unstar

[PublikDomain]

23 minutes ago, (PSN)Lollybomb said:

You're just proposing to bring back Solar Rails, but with railjack.  Splitting it up by clan tier is unlikely to help anything.  The core problem is that there are too many clans to implement a system where a fixed number of groups (4 tiers times the number of nodes) get all the payout for winning, and everyone else gets nothing.  You're either the best of the best in your group, or you might as well not bother.  So, for roughly 99% of the playerbase, they might as well not bother.  Doesn't seem like a system that's worth diverting development time towards.

Also the idea of trying to compete for general nodes across the starchart is terrible.  The Lich system is opt in.  You've agreed to that tax.  Just being forced to give up some of your mission rewards just because some bigger clan did something entirely unrelated?  Terrible idea.

It's not like the Tax is unchangeable. If the tax is a problem: change it. Then it won't be a problem.

Just retcon the tax: instead of the players playing on the node paying a tax out of their mission rewards, the NPCs on the node can match a percentage of that to pay the tax instead. So if the tax is 10%, instead of the player getting 90% of their Credits/resources at the end of the mission and the controlling group getting 10%, the player could get their full 100% and the controlling group could get 10% of that amount as well. It's not like Plastids and Credits are that big a deal. Narratively it could be protection payments from a settlement, or a fee paid by the allied Syndicates profiting from friendly control of the node, or loot plundered by the controlling group's operatives, or whatever.

The issue of there being limited space to compete over is also real, but was a problem that was compounded exponentially in the old system by only having a small handful of nodes to compete over. But we've got a whole Starchart! If every node can be contested then there's suddenly a whole lot of space on the Starchart to share. Big, active groups would obviously gobble up a lot of the territory, but that could be kept in check with meta-rules like "if you control any nodes you can only invade adjacent nodes". And it's not like groups without territory are actually left out and get nothing, since Alliances can be formed (that's what they're for) and even without participating as a controlling player you can always participate as a mercenary where you get paid more, not less.

[Sporthand]

14 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

It's not like the Tax is unchangeable. If the tax is a problem: change it. Then it won't be a problem.

Just retcon the tax: instead of the players playing on the node paying a tax out of their mission rewards, the NPCs on the node can match a percentage of that to pay the tax instead. So if the tax is 10%, instead of the player getting 90% of their Credits/resources at the end of the mission and the controlling group getting 10%, the player could get their full 100% and the controlling group could get 10% of that amount as well. It's not like Plastids and Credits are that big a deal. Narratively it could be protection payments from a settlement, or a fee paid by the allied Syndicates profiting from friendly control of the node, or loot plundered by the controlling group's operatives, or whatever.

The issue of there being limited space to compete over is also real, but was a problem that was compounded exponentially in the old system by only having a small handful of nodes to compete over. But we've got a whole Starchart! If every node can be contested then there's suddenly a whole lot of space on the Starchart to share. Big, active groups would obviously gobble up a lot of the territory, but that could be kept in check with meta-rules like "if you control any nodes you can only invade adjacent nodes". And it's not like groups without territory are actually left out and get nothing, since Alliances can be formed (that's what they're for) and even without participating as a controlling player you can always participate as a mercenary where you get paid more, not less.

Hello, what I am concerned about your ideas of clans PVP is how those dominant clan members capture the node.

I can only think about the winner-takes-all by the score (kill count, resources, or influence) before the node lockdown within 12 hours.

Or cool-time before resuming the match of the captured nodes. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Sporthand

[PublikDomain]

3 hours ago, Sporthand said:

Hello, what I am concerned about your ideas of clans PVP is how those dominant clan members capture the node.

I can only think about the winner-takes-all by the score (kill count, resources, or influence) before the node lockdown within 12 hours.

Or cool-time before resuming the match of the captured nodes. 

IIRC that's pretty much how it used to work. Once a node was contested the winner was decided through overall victories (either most in a fixed time or first to a certain number, don't remember the specifics) and the node was then secured for a small window before it could be invaded by someone else again.

[bad4youLT]

On 2023-08-23 at 6:04 AM, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

How about Clans can compete for Control of different starchart Nodes?

and any other Tenno who play missions on those nodes have to pay a portion of mission rewards as 'tax' to the owning clan?

 

(its kinda like the Lich influenced nodes, but Other Tenno instead owning them).

I'm not sure if this supposed to be a joke or you just simple never heard of Dark Sectors and Solar Rails 

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

On 2023-08-23 at 3:24 PM, (PSN)Lollybomb said:

 

Also the idea of trying to compete for general nodes across the starchart is terrible.  The Lich system is opt in.  You've agreed to that tax.  Just being forced to give up some of your mission rewards just because some bigger clan did something entirely unrelated?  Terrible idea.

 

I see you are Not an EVE Online player....

 

5 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

I'm not sure if this supposed to be a joke or you just simple never heard of Dark Sectors and Solar Rails 

 

Bring back the chaos! this game is going stale and some real Conflict would be great.

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

DE already said that PvP isn't on the cards, hence why they aren't going ahead with ideas like Stalker Invasion mode. now let's think about this logically:

if DE aren't willing to add PvP for one player to go against one other, or a full squad of 4 at most, what makes you think they'll be willing to add a mode that would have large teams and massive setpieces that take time to develop?

[Sporthand]

7 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

IIRC that's pretty much how it used to work. Once a node was contested the winner was decided through overall victories (either most in a fixed time or first to a certain number, don't remember the specifics) and the node was then secured for a small window before it could be invaded by someone else again.

Hmm. The star chart nodes can restrict the player's capture like the Planetside 2.

On 2023-08-22 at 10:36 AM, Sporthand said:

Hello, I am thinking of indirect competition with PVP rather than direct competition since Warframes is a way too powerful warriors. 
We can compete with kill counts every match. A player leads kill counts and receives a clan score of +3, while others get +2, +1, +1. A player receives penalized a clan score of -1 per death count.
 

Gathering resources can be a competitive match. The clan might require over 2 million materials before a week's deadline. 
The top 3 tiers clans received abundant rewards and were praised by pressing 'F' from other players. The praising players also received a small amount of tips.

Clan dojo participation is also significant, so the dojo clan's founders must decorate to make the dojo clan attractive and increase the number of visitors.

That's my small cents! 

Based on this information, we can compete with who kills the most or collects the most resources. But participation is only crucial for winning the matches and preventing AFKers.

 
 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Sporthand

[TARINunit9]

The only time I ever did PvP in this game was the Quick Steel tac alert (free for all deathmatch, all players restricted to Hikou and Nikana). It was mildly fun, then I never touched PvP again

[SpeedoDragon]

On 2023-08-23 at 3:24 PM, (PSN)Lollybomb said:

You're just proposing to bring back Solar Rails, but with railjack.  Splitting it up by clan tier is unlikely to help anything.  The core problem is that there are too many clans to implement a system where a fixed number of groups (4 tiers times the number of nodes) get all the payout for winning, and everyone else gets nothing.  You're either the best of the best in your group, or you might as well not bother.  So, for roughly 99% of the playerbase, they might as well not bother.  Doesn't seem like a system that's worth diverting development time towards.

Also the idea of trying to compete for general nodes across the starchart is terrible.  The Lich system is opt in.  You've agreed to that tax.  Just being forced to give up some of your mission rewards just because some bigger clan did something entirely unrelated?  Terrible idea.

I agree that Solar Rails was pretty S#&amp;&#036;ty, What I proposed is more of an instance based clan war that is hosted by the Clan's Flagship if they are the first to get there and start extracting resources. This could be anything and by defeating the Flagship your Clan takes over the Instance. As for how the combat would work I would Make it Railjack only or multi-phased where you defeat the Flagships Railjack team consisting of Tenno Pilots and Crew vs your Tenno Pilots and Crew and if you defeat the defending Clan you gain access to the interior which is defended by Tenno's AI Crew as well as other defense systems that can be unlocked within the Flagship. It could consist of multiple missions put together such as a spy into a sabotage into a defense/survival then you extract before the Flagship blows up. If you successfully get threw the whole mission your Clan takes over as the Defending Clan and allows for others to try and take over. to make it less messy, multiple clans can compete to complete it first and if another clan completes it before you it fails the mission and you extract with what every resources you were able to steal while Sabotaging the enemy. It could span over a week and the Flagship that gets destroyed simply requires you to Repair it in the Clan before you can re-use it again at 0 cost just a long wait time. The last Clan to hold the defending position gets a bonus reward while all other defending Clans that got defeated walk away with what ever they manage to collect within their run. there could even be a log where it shows the Clan the different attempts other Clans made so they can change up their strategy for defending.<this last one is a bit over kill cause I can't imagine recording play by play but more wishful thinking.