Removal of Flawed Mods and MK1 Weapons

[PublikDomain]

Quote

Let us keep Mk1 weapons in Conclave

There's no reason to delete them for anyone.

[PollexMessier]

17 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

There's no reason to delete them for anyone.

Yeahhh I dont really understand the motive behind this decision. It does smooth out the new player experience a little but that has WAY more issues than the fact that the difference between mk-1 weapons and their normal counterparts is a little bit confusing for the first 2 hours of the game.

Sorting out removing MK-1s while not massively screwing up people's mastery or creating a situation of more unobtainable gear is way more work than it's worth when there's about 100 other urgently bad things about the new player experience they could be fixing instead.

[MaxTunnerX]

This is one of the most random ideas Ive heard from DE. As much as I never liked them much, removing them isnt the right way. Cant really imagine any scenario that wouldnt ruin the game.

Edited September 10, 2023 by MaxTunnerX

[[DE]Juice]

Hi Tenno!

After the changes to MK1 Weapons and Flawed Mods were first announced during TennoLive 2023 and in the Abyss of Dagath web news post, we saw some confusion around how these changes will be implemented, so we want to provide some clarification about our plans for the Abyss of Dagath Update.

MK1 Weapons are not being removed from the game, so you don't need to worry about missing out on Mastery. They will be swapped out of the Vor’s Prize Quest for the standard version of the weapons and will remain acquirable via the in-game Market for Credits.

We will cover Flawed Mod and MK1 Weaponry changes in more detail in our September Devstream, as well as a Dev Workshop coming later this month.

See you then!

[Voltage]

9 minutes ago, [DE]Juice said:

MK1 Weapons are not being removed from the game, so you don't need to worry about missing out on Mastery. They will be swapped out of the Vor’s Prize Quest for the standard version of the weapons and will remain acquirable via the in-game Market for Credits.

Thank you for this information!

While this is understandable and easier to implement, it would have probably been better if MK-1 weapons were just removed from the game entirely and the Mastery incorporated into Vor's Prize or some other means. I say this because the current changes still retain arsenal bloat for not much reason other than the Mastery, and removing them from Vor's Prize means it will become yet another thing that new players aren't shown when they start their experience. It would also be better going forward, because MK-1 weapons also benefit from Incarnon Adapters, and this would remove additional bloat from that system as well if they were gone.

Cheers.

[SilentMashiko]

20 минут назад, Voltage сказал:

Thank you for this information!

While this is understandable and easier to implement, it would have probably been better if MK-1 weapons were just removed from the game entirely and the Mastery incorporated into Vor's Prize or some other means. I say this because the current changes still retain arsenal bloat for not much reason other than the Mastery, and removing them from Vor's Prize means it will become yet another thing that new players aren't shown when they start their experience. It would also be better going forward, because MK-1 weapons also benefit from Incarnon Adapters, and this would remove additional bloat from that system as well if they were gone.

Cheers.

i'd imagine it would be a pain to setup compensation for ppl who invested potatoes, forma, adapters and incarnons into those weapons
plus they kinda do serve a purpose - no need to wait for crafting, and being able to test a small variety of different weapons

[Voltage]

9 minutes ago, SilentMashiko said:

i'd imagine it would be a pain to setup compensation for ppl who invested potatoes, forma, adapters and incarnons into those weapons
plus they kinda do serve a purpose - no need to wait for crafting, and being able to test a small variety of different weapons

This could be handled through a script if they really wanted to compensate (even though they don't compensate that often anyways), and how many people do you actually think totally upgrade these things?

I'm part of that miniscule percentage that has upgraded them, but I still think it would be good for the game if they were gone going forward. The game is 10 years old and some fat could be trimmed. I wouldn't be nearly as bothered by this Forma going given I've lost countless hours and resources over the years from other changes (Railjack, PoE Arcanes, etc.).

It's better for the game if newer players aren't wasting their precious resources on bad gear, and players who are more experienced don't have unneeded bloat. The base versions could be made available for Credits instead of crafted to preserve that behavior as a Credits-only option.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Voltage

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

53 minutes ago, [DE]Juice said:

Hi Tenno!

After the changes to MK1 Weapons and Flawed Mods were first announced during TennoLive 2023 and in the Abyss of Dagath web news post, we saw some confusion around how these changes will be implemented, so we want to provide some clarification about our plans for the Abyss of Dagath Update.

MK1 Weapons are not being removed from the game, so you don't need to worry about missing out on Mastery. They will be swapped out of the Vor’s Prize Quest for the standard version of the weapons and will remain acquirable via the in-game Market for Credits.

We will cover Flawed Mod and MK1 Weaponry changes in more detail in our September Devstream, as well as a Dev Workshop coming later this month.

See you then!

Thank you juice for letting us keep mk1 weapons!

[IDystopiaI]

On 2023-08-27 at 7:50 AM, Voltage said:

This is just early feedback, but the decision to remove flawed mods is great and I hope they are just entirely deleted/replaced with base mods.

Some of the Flawed Mods were actually stronger than their base versions for the same drain, making them more new player friendly because of their slot efficiency.  

An example of this is Flawed Flow, which has a max drain of 5 and provides +72% max energy while regular Flow only provides +50% for 5 drain. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Flow

Edited September 20, 2023 by IDystopiaI
typos

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

22 minutes ago, IDystopiaI said:

Some of the Flawed Mods were actually stronger than thier base versions for the same drain, making them more new player friendly because of their slot efficiency.  

An example of this is Flawed Flow, which has a max drain on 5 and provides +72% max energy while regular Flow only provides +50% for 5 drain. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Flow

Flawed mods have extremely niche uses and there is no reason to use them once you get the normal versions. Even in your example, it would be better to just rank the damn mod or polarize.

[SneakyErvin]

22 minutes ago, IDystopiaI said:

Some of the Flawed Mods were actually stronger than thier base versions for the same drain, making them more new player friendly because of their slot efficiency.  

An example of this is Flawed Flow, which has a max drain on 5 and provides +72% max energy while regular Flow only provides +50% for 5 drain. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Flow

It is good they remove them even if there is a better gain per capacity on some. It will mean new players wont waste endo and credits on mods they wont use when they get the normal version.

[IDystopiaI]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Flawed mods have extremely niche uses and there is no reason to use them once you get the normal versions. Even in your example, it would be better to just rank the damn mod or polarize.

It would make more sense to replace the worse performing ranks of the regular mods (for the ones that actually do perform better, something like flawed equilibrium will always be worse at every rank) and replace the existing value at an equal drain cost. Flow would have it's 50% bonus replaced with the Flawed's 72% bonus at 5 drain, but it doesn't look like anyone even bothered to point out that the base mods could be buffed this way...

Drain is also a limiting factor for newer players that might not have easy access to Catalysts/Forma and I wouldn't really recommend thowing a catalyst into mr fodder. Throwing Forma into the weapon will lower the max cappacity of the weapon/warframe below 30, making the more drain efficient flawed mods better than the base version again.

[Voltage]

2 hours ago, IDystopiaI said:

Some of the Flawed Mods were actually stronger than thier base versions for the same drain, making them more new player friendly because of their slot efficiency.  

An example of this is Flawed Flow, which has a max drain on 5 and provides +72% max energy while regular Flow only provides +50% for 5 drain. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Flow

Because several of them are not available after Vors Prize, and just maxing and polarizing the base mod would give more performance, they should just get deleted.

[Hexerin]

On 2023-09-02 at 11:56 AM, SilentMobius said:

Also anyone can overtake a founder in MR

Objectively false, and that cannot be debated. Founders have access to 12,000 more mastery exp than all other players. It is literally impossible for non-founders to overtake a founder in mastery progression, no matter what the non-founder does.

[(PSN)DrNicket]

On 2023-09-14 at 5:56 AM, IDystopiaI said:

Some of the Flawed Mods were actually stronger than thier base versions for the same drain, making them more new player friendly because of their slot efficiency.  

An example of this is Flawed Flow, which has a max drain on 5 and provides +72% max energy while regular Flow only provides +50% for 5 drain. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Flow

I too wish to keep Flawed Mods in the game. I like how they allow an extra level of flexibility. I wish it were easier for me to collect them all. Unfortunately, other than tagging along with a new player and grinding with them, it's all but impossible. 
 

I'm also tired of other players just telling people like me to "get good". I am. I just like options. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by (PSN)DrNicket

[SilentMobius]

On 2023-09-14 at 11:36 PM, Hexerin said:

Objectively false, and that cannot be debated. Founders have access to 12,000 more mastery exp than all other players. It is literally impossible for non-founders to overtake a founder in mastery progression, no matter what the non-founder does.

The word you have used but not understood is access,

Founders have access to more mastery, at any given point the actual amount of mastery they have acquired can easily be overtaken if they are not constantly on the very cusp of whatever 100% acquisition is at that point. All I have to do is be slow on a prime access and someone who is not can be ahead of me, founder or not.

Only when a founder is on that cusp, and only when there is a Mastery Rank boundary split by a release across that 12,000MP can a founder manifest any game advantage, and that advantage is small and only extant for a short time, even assuming the advantages are actually useful during the period they exist (can you both fill and use the increased void thread capacity, is the focus limit even relevant to you any more, will you be trading anything past your prior limit during that period, etc)

Edited September 19, 2023 by SilentMobius