Removal of Flawed Mods and MK1 Weapons

[Gamer_Auto]

On 2023-08-27 at 6:21 PM, Voltage said:

Why does that matter exactly? The way these things are handled should reflect 0 downsides for any player. This is like the "remove raids" mindset. "Well the majority doesn't like them so it's acceptable". 

Like sure, I know there are an extreme minority who put investment on mk1 gear. However, there are the few that put Forma/Catalysts/Exilus on them for Conclave, completion, experimentation/testing, there's Incarnon buffs, and yes, meme builds (I'm reminded of the Mk1 loadout 6x3 video from years ago). 

That's the only reason I made this thread, brainstorming a solution where the new player experience is improved, these items are removed and not made legacy, and players who've put stuff into them are accounted for.

I mean, they do that anyway. At least in the handful of times I've ever experienced it. That's not something you need to be concerned about.

On 2023-08-28 at 3:49 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

Quite a lot of people, apparently. They're available to incarnon, and the stats that the incarnons add are greater for those weapons to bring them up to late-game level, so just being able to make such low-damage weapons actually viable is less a meme and more a testament to what has happened with power scaling.

But again, why the MK-1s specifically? Why not the standard versions? That's what I don't get.

[Birdframe_Prime]

18 hours ago, Gamer_Auto said:

But again, why the MK-1s specifically? Why not the standard versions? That's what I don't get.

What's not to get? People like these starter weapons, and the option to make them viable is nostalgic. If the weapon is viable, it's viable.

You don't have to always use the best weapons, you just have to use ones that work. Sure there's memes, but also there's just general enjoyment of proving that Warframe doesn't have progression, only stuff.

[(PSN)x7thmoon]

On 8/28/2023 at 1:29 PM, SpicyDinosaur said:

It's a a few lines of code, not really much of a keepsake.

 

That said, some weapons that seem inferior in PvE actually have a small advantage in Conclave because of the different stat distribution and how small the numbers need to be to make an impact there. I haven't delved enough into the numbers but I vaguely recall someone telling me some of the MK-1s are useful. I've tested them myself, but it's hard to tell what is and isn't of any worth since I am so godawful at the game mode.

 

You've been able to buy them from the market this whole time, so they aren't really collectibles. They probably aren't going to wipe existing ones, and I'm not clear on the benefit of removing the weapons in general, but it's certainly a very weird thing to form an attachment to, It's like people who get mad when there's an event that underlines the fact that our operators are psychopathic little war criminals because they want to play the good guy. We have never been good guys. Also, your MK-1s are just a series of 1 and 0s keeping your inventory all cluttered.

 

The mastery issue is probably the only thing I'd be curious about, it would be unfair to upcoming players to make that affinity unaccessible by them.

 all that paragraph said was yer 1 of few who just wanted to be negative by trolling and harassing others. if ye dont want to keep yer own stuff by all means sell/discard them. but obviously since ye yerself stated ye cant tell what dus or dus not have worth there was no point to post what ye posted

[Drachnov]

I think, the removal of MK is another chance for DE to look into exclusive items and mastery XP.

Personally, I don't mind if Founder Pack holders have Excalibur prime and his weapons or someone will have the MK weapons if they retain the skins.

The problem, and that creates a case similar to P2W, is the fact that they offer mastery XP and each Rank offers advantage vs the lower rank; Focus Cap, Void Traces cap, Daily trading slots, even legendary cores on Legendary Ranks that they go for around 120plat if u decide to sell them.

This is bad and, it pains me to say it but unfair too. And I m Legend 3 with no founders pack but all MK maxed. This doesn't matter tho cause a new player will always falls behind and I will always fall behind someone holding the founder's pack, as it offers direct ingame advantage.

[SpicyDinosaur]

4 hours ago, (PSN)x7thmoon said:

 all that paragraph said was yer 1 of few who just wanted to be negative by trolling and harassing others. if ye dont want to keep yer own stuff by all means sell/discard them. but obviously since ye yerself stated ye cant tell what dus or dus not have worth there was no point to post what ye posted

🙄

[UrubuHerbivoro]

On 2023-08-26 at 8:50 PM, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

?I didn't watch the news?

are Mk-1 weapons getting removed from market?

do we still get to keep existing BPs? crafted weapons?

If I have to bet, they'll probably remove them from the market only. I can't imagine other way to deal with those 21k MR points we already got from them.

[SilentMobius]

On 2023-08-30 at 8:32 PM, Drachnov said:

I will always fall behind someone holding the founder's pack, as it offers direct ingame advantage.

I have no problem with the founders packs coming back or some other MR balance option. But I will say this, there a very narrow threshold of advantage that is active for a very short amount of time (The brief period where the the extra mastery from the founder's pack pushes someone past the MR threshold) That is only 12,000 mastery out of 147,500, (8% of progression time), and can easily be erased with the release of a PA close to a normal weapon. On top of that is the fact that in many cases the slight head start isn't even reasonable to take advantage of for many of the bonuses during the duration of the head start. On top of that it only affects players on the absolute limit of possible MR, which is a tiny amount of players (1.7% of steam players are MR30)

We already have paid boosters which offer a more consistent advantage so I don't see it as that big a deal any more.

Edited August 31, 2023 by SilentMobius

[vixenpixel]

7 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

I have no problem with the founders packs coming back or some other MR balance option. But I will say this, there a very narrow threshold of advantage that is active for a very short amount of time (The brief period where the the extra mastery from the founder's pack pushes someone past the MR threshold) That is only 12,000 mastery out of 147,500, (8% of progression time), and can easily be erased with the release of a PA close to a normal weapon. On top of that is the fact that in many cases the slight head start isn't even reasonable to take advantage of for many of the bonuses during the duration of the head start. On top of that it only affects players on the absolute limit of possible MR, which is a tiny amount of players (1.7% of steam players are MR30)

We already have paid boosters which offer a more consistent advantage so I don't see it as that big a deal any more.

Just that one time when lg2 just unlocked and if you had everything collectible including founders pack you were legendary 2, if you lacked only the founders pack you were legendary 1 Only lasted for like a month or two, I believe. Personally for me, with the love I have for the game and the appreciation for the devs, I do feel a bit like it would be a nice thing to feel appreciated in turn, having never really gotten the chance to get my hands on these particular items, in spite of 192/193 achievements, enough tennogen to feed a family and every single piece of obtainable weapon and warframe in the game. :)

Edited September 1, 2023 by vixenpixel

[SilentMobius]

On 2023-09-01 at 6:45 AM, vixenpixel said:

Just that one time when lg2 just unlocked and if you had everything collectible including founders pack you were legendary 2, if you lacked only the founders pack you were legendary 1 Only lasted for like a month or two, I believe. Personally for me, with the love I have for the game and the appreciation for the devs, I do feel a bit like it would be a nice thing to feel appreciated in turn, having never really gotten the chance to get my hands on these particular items, in spite of 192/193 achievements, enough tennogen to feed a family and every single piece of obtainable weapon and warframe in the game. :)

I understand, I have no issue with that, for me the founders pack was just the warframe and weapon that I wanted, I place no value on exclusivity, I'd be absolutely happy if they were offered again. But I imagine that is what DE felt they were doing with Excal Umbra, giving out a "Prime" aesthetic Excalibur for everyone to use, I imagine the MR issue was discussed and decided to be not much of an issue once there was over MR30s worth of mastery available. 

But who knows.

Edited September 2, 2023 by SilentMobius

[KIREEK]

On 2023-08-27 at 10:13 AM, Hexerin said:

Where was this complaint with the founder's pack, featuring an entire frame and two weapons worth of MR that nobody can obtain anymore?

Well, it does exist somewhere on the forums and it was adressed once on devstream.

DE at one point was looking into letting users get the MR points but not the weapons and warframe themselves (as those are founder only), but that was it, they never specified how and when.

[FiveN9ne]

And what about the forma, potatoes and exilus adapters we invested into them? Who cares right? I have over 50 forma on mk1 weps, plus everything else that's like 1k+ plat right there...

[(PSN)x7thmoon]

On 8/28/2023 at 12:29 PM, (PSN)x7thmoon said:

fully agreed. theres no reason to take them from inventory just remove the purchase of new 1s from market place. they can obviously do it that way as it was done with various other scenario like the blueprints to make bait and old resources like omega nav beacon, the resources from the mercury relay construction, past nightwave currency and most noted VAULTED RELICS. yes imagine if we the players just ignored this issue and decided to let it be. all we know next de well decide to take other gear and sutch ? put cap limitations to max inventory slots can be purchased ? take away platinum and trades ? remove all dojo ? yes imagine spending hours of effort to reach a goal only to be smaked by de and told no yer not allowed to have goals progress or a sense of accomplishment. thats literally what is and well happen.

 

[Drachnov]

On 2023-09-01 at 11:26 AM, FiveN9ne said:

And what about the forma, potatoes and exilus adapters we invested into them? Who cares right? I have over 50 forma on mk1 weps, plus everything else that's like 1k+ plat right there...

This is also a very valid point and I will probably react to someone mentioning or I ll start a post for that one.

Also, both MK1 and Founders, maybe they re a fraction of a mastery rank, which depends how low or high you re, but that doesn t change the fact that someone will be in an advantage from someone else FOREVER,  if they don t remove the mastery xp from both the pack and everything they re going to remove or find a way to balance it.

It maybe your extra 2k xp that you needed for the next mastery that perhaps will get you a Legendary Core worth of 120p more or less, 1 more transaction that it s 365 transactions a year holding more plat for you or more traces that you can also express in value.

It's a matter of equality which, DE should think that it s also a matter of creating revenue as you can buy a lot of mastery xp items with plat. If you know you ll never make it to where the highest mastery is you won t bother. 

These are 2 different things tho. The second is another reason, one that creates revenue. The first one is cause it s not fair to have that gap between players.

 

[SilentMobius]

56 minutes ago, Drachnov said:

Also, both MK1 and Founders, maybe they re a fraction of a mastery rank, which depends how low or high you re, but that doesn t change the fact that someone will be in an advantage from someone else FOREVER,  if they don t remove the mastery xp from both the pack and everything they re going to remove or find a way to balance it.

But it's not an advantage "FOREVER" it literally does nothing ~92% of the time and the small advantage it does give during the times it exists is far from guaranteed to be useful in any way.

Any extras that a higher MR give are available to everyone just maybe fractionally later. At best it's a head start in the same advantage everyone will get. (And there are plenty of those with the vaulted primes, event weapons, retired weapons, etc)

If DE stopped creating mastery opportunities when the max hit MR30 I'd be with you, everyone should be able to get there, but they aren't stopping and unless they suddenly decide to stop with founders over an MR boundary (In which case I'll be the first in line to ask for a route for everyone else to get something to match up) it just has such a minimal impact I'm with DE in the "do nothing" camp

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by SilentMobius

[Ayumi14]

I personally would be sad if the mk1 weapons going to be removed because I invested in mz mk1 paris, mk1 bo and mk1 braton since these mk1 weapons feels good. Each weapon had good stats which made them usable and differ from the regular variants. The mk1 braton had more magazine cap, acceptable fire rate and a nice slash focus. The mk1 paris was better in status and the charge shot is faster. I enjoy these weapons and time to time bring them to the early nodes to farm stuff. The flawed mods will not be missed since these was very weak mods to "kickstart" new players but obtaining regular damage and ulitity mods would significantly boost new players.

The mastery would be somehow transfered or they make variants for the regular weapons which willstill gives you the missing mastery points.

 

 

[Drachnov]

34 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

But it's not an advantage "FOREVER" it literally does nothing ~92% of the time and the small advantage it does give during the times it exists is far from guaranteed to be useful in any way.

Any extras that a higher MR give are available to everyone just maybe fractionally later. At best it's a head start in the same advantage everyone will get. (And there are plenty of those with the vaulted primes, event weapons, retired weapons, etc)

If DE stopped creating mastery opportunities when the max hit MR30 I'd be with you, everyone should be able to get there, but they aren't stopping and unless they suddenly decide to stop with founders over an MR boundary (In which case I'll be the first in line to ask for a route for everyone else to get something to match up) it just has such a minimal impact I'm with DE in the "do nothing" camp

 

No, it s not a head start. Head start implies that given the time you spent, you will end up on the highest rank. The problem is that is not possible, because the only way to get close to the highest ranked players is by getting new weapons which they will also have access to. That's a forever difference between players, which again, if it was only a case of availability of a weapon or frame like Excalibur Prime it's okish, or exclusivity in skins, again it s ok,  but as the mastery xp difference and rank offers privileges in day to day activities like trading and plat making, that makes it unfair.

[SilentMobius]

4 hours ago, Drachnov said:

No, it s not a head start. Head start implies that given the time you spent, you will end up on the highest rank. The problem is that is not possible, because the only way to get close to the highest ranked players is by getting new weapons which they will also have access to. That's a forever difference between players, which again, if it was only a case of availability of a weapon or frame like Excalibur Prime it's okish, or exclusivity in skins, again it s ok,  but as the mastery xp difference and rank offers privileges in day to day activities like trading and plat making, that makes it unfair.

It does not offer privileges in "day to day" activities, it offers a _possibility_ (~8% of the time) of a privilege that ___may___ be of additional use during the narrow window it exists. That anyone can achieve shortly after.

Also anyone can overtake a founder in MR, the only time they cannot is if the founder is the fastest to claim any new MR while also having been at the MR limit, which is far from a given.

"day to day" (Cambridge Dictionary) "being part of normal life and not special" it offers not advantage at all, no change in gameplay nor ability.

This should be obvious to anyone, anyway, I think I've had enough of this conversation.

Edited September 2, 2023 by SilentMobius

[Jylon]

not sure why these have to go, feels somewhat sad as its fond memories of old times.  i have kept everything i mastered and most of my mk-1 have potatoes, forma, exilus adapters, etc.  it seems like a hassle for everyone involved to bother doing anything with these at all since there seems to be no real issue besides armory standards in a game of tons of weapons

[(PSN)Adeak]

I don't much care either way about the Mk-1 weapons aside from the MR issues, but I actually still use flawed mods here and there to save some drain in the mid-ranks. Flawed Flow in particular has a decent energy increase when maxed, at only half the drain of regular Flow.

Edited September 4, 2023 by (PSN)Adeak

[(PSN)Adeak]

I don't much care either way about the Mk-1 weapons aside from the MR issues, but I actually still use flawed mods here and there to save some drain in the mid-ranks. Flawed Flow in particular has a decent energy increase when maxed, at only half the drain of regular Flow.

[Pagasarri]

Le 04/09/2023 à 17:16, (PSN)Adeak a dit :

I don't much care either way about the Mk-1 weapons 

43 forms

8 orokin reactor

6 arcane adapter

2 incarnon adapter still alone

and hours leveling

get all that and lvl, its a lot of hours

[Pakaku]

Sure, removing a handful of weapons out of a pool of several hundred is definitely "streamlining" things...

[Xsoskeleton]

both removal of Flawed Mods and MK-1 Weapons just make no sense to me.

MK-1 weapons being affordable options for players who started with bricked choice like going bow and kunai while they need more frequent pewpews so i see no reason why they need to be removed. And i thought DE is done with expiring mastery fodders despite lore correction reasons as they even brought back og Snipetron through events.

Flawed mods, sure, most are weaker if not on par with existing mods for same capacity cost, but Flawed Flow and Continuity, at their r3 (max) they are slightly better than the normal version of both mods at r1, but still same capacity cost.

[VoidDevil341]

I don’t really care for them. They helped out a long time ago many years ago when I started playing back in 2013. Now there are so many other weapons that are better you can obtain earlier. I think it is time for them to go. 

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

So DE is removing all Mk1 weapons from the game next update.  Alot of conclave players love them and they're great for starting out pve as they only cost credits. Please let us keep them DE!