Late join to Void Fissure. Not enough reactant (out of player control). EZ Solution.

[Hobie-wan]

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The problem is on DEs end due to the matchmaker, there is no safe way to circumvent it due to how random connectivity can be due to the matchmaker when finding a host.

 

6 hours ago, Naroxas44 said:

To be fair, I'm not sure what the matchmaker could even do here - unless we start classifying what systems "can" and "can't" host based on a benchmark or specs, there's always gonna be a system that shouldn't be hosting but is.

This is why I and others have wished for a setting that a player can set as Host only/Client only/Any when running missions. I know there are plenty of sensible people that know that either their system or their connection is marginal or is simply having an unreliable day and would set it accordingly. I have friends that I occasionally run with that always have me host because it goes smoothly that way. I've had the occasional evening where my internet was acting up and I'd take the moment to switch it when that happens. It wouldn't be perfect, but would certainly help for this and other situations.

9 hours ago, (XBOX)Hellsteeth30 said:

So if it isn't defence I'm not pubbing it for relics.

 

8 hours ago, JohnMorte said:

I played an Axi pub defense yesterday, just to see if reactant was still broken. It was. Don't be fooled into thinking it's just exclusive to quicker gametypes.

Defense can be a problem because you get nukers that wipe all the enemies off the map before a lot of them have a chance to become corrupted. Yes you get groups that spawn in with the disturbance, but really you need the cataclysm to corrupt random enemies that happened to be standing near it when it erupted. On top of that, the enemies that get killed in the rooms at the edges of the map might be dropping reactant that people don't even know is there or get to because they're staying on top of the defense target.

 

[Hobie-wan]

6 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

All loot, reactant included, should just be globally picked up like it is in Railjack.

I could see that happening. Say increase the amount of reactant 5 per squad member, still starting at 10 for solo, but the reactant pickup is universal.

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Naroxas44 said:

To be fair, I'm not sure what the matchmaker could even do here - unless we start classifying what systems "can" and "can't" host based on a benchmark or specs, there's always gonna be a system that shouldn't be hosting but is. That alone isn't even sufficient either, as individual networks can have latency spikes or really bad jitter that isn't detected until prolonged times, so now that connection to host takes 20s instead of 5s because it keeps dropping packets for the loadouts the client needs to load resources for to join, or the client takes forever to load the resources in a situation where their system is less than ideal.

For this particular reactant issue, they could either make the join times tighter (meaning no "late" joins but potentially less people in the mission) or increase reactant spawns significantly per join (meaning more chances to get more reactant, and quicker). Not catching the late join up seems to annoy people (joining a mission and not getting a reward cause the game said "nah, no more reactant" sucks), and catching them up to max amount seems to also annoy people (being considered a "free ride" to people who collected the reactant in this case), so the only compromise I can tell would be to make it easier for late joins to catch up by increasing the spawns for them.

The first thing they could do is design a matchmaker that actually considers your prefered settings, such as ping limits and so on. At the moment it just doesnt work. And now with cross-play, forcing PC or current-gen consoles as hosts would also be a good step in the right direction, which should be possible for a matchmaker to detect. Though for PC it can be shifty due to the very forgiving system requirements of the game and how good/poor people take care of their machines.

I'm not sure if anyone in their right mind gets annoyed and sees a "free ride" regarding reactant, because honestly people... it is bloody reactant and nothing else, which also benefits everyone in the group eitherway by providing more cracked relics to pick from. I think more people are annoyed with having to wait as late joiners have to rummage around and kill when the rest are about to enter the EZ. Which can effectively double the time of a mission such as capture and rescue. Although I have been of the opinion for a long time that reactants should just be removed altogether since they dont really fill any important gameplay purpose at all.

10 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

This is why I and others have wished for a setting that a player can set as Host only/Client only/Any when running missions. I know there are plenty of sensible people that know that either their system or their connection is marginal or is simply having an unreliable day and would set it accordingly. I have friends that I occasionally run with that always have me host because it goes smoothly that way. I've had the occasional evening where my internet was acting up and I'd take the moment to switch it when that happens. It wouldn't be perfect, but would certainly help for this and other situations.

This, so much this! It is more needed now with cross-play in the mix. I tend to do what you describe when playing with certain friends in co-op games, since their connection is just much faster than mine and we play on roughly the same hardware setup. No point for me to host when someone can do it better.

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

a lot of the problem is the fact that you're waiting ages for enemies to get corrupted for a chance to drop reactant: IMO ALL corrupted enemeis should drop reactant, and fissures need to pop up more often. that said, people have bad habits too (nuking too fast, not staying together in survivals etc.)

[Hayrack]

The problem is that corrupted enemies stop spawning for late-joiners. Never been fixed.

[PhreazerBurn]

On 2023-09-07 at 6:36 PM, Hobie-wan said:

I know I love showing up at 4 PM and getting paid for all the work everyone else did all day before I got there.

Calling picking up reactant "work" is a hilariously strong exaggeration of what could be considered work. It normally happens almost passively.

On 2023-09-07 at 7:50 PM, trst said:

I'd say that the mission lockout should consider the current Reactant count instead. One player already got half of their Reactant? Don't let more players join in on the mission.

That just punishes the other players who are now stuck with having fewer relic rewards to choose from.

On 2023-09-07 at 11:10 PM, nslay said:

I really don't see this very often. Players are usually so considerate in this game that they will usually wait for everyone to have 10 reactant... even in blazing fast Capture missions! It even often goes without saying, but dropping a line in chat for those other times works too.

Why hope that the other 3 players are going to endure double mission duration so that DE can be lazy and not implement a simple fix?

 

On 2023-09-08 at 12:47 PM, PublikDomain said:

All loot, reactant included, should just be globally picked up like it is in Railjack. That solves reactant problems, but also the problems that come from people splitting up in endless modes, problems with missing out on loot because someone didn't mark it, problems with having loot despawn, having to backtrack, less random garbage to have to track and replicate over the network, and so on.

This is as good as a solution to the issue as my own. This is really one of those times where about the only bad choice is not TRYING to fix the problem.

Actually, this is way better than my solution because it fixes several other severe issues that have for years been unaddressed. 

[Venus-Venera]

Am 7.9.2023 um 23:49 schrieb PhreazerBurn:

Late join to Void Fissure. Not enough reactant (out of player control). EZ Solution.

Give players who join in after mission starts the number of reactant that the player with the most already has.

Problem solved. Hooray! Hopefully next hotfix. /smile

should be done billion years ago.............................................

 

[DogsConkers]

Just make all the reactant already dropped visible to the late-joiner even if the reactant is miles away, make the range infinite not just locally to where they just spawned in. Bonus points for DE if they also include already discovered areas on the map overlay so the late joiner can more easily navigate to that far away reactant.

[Hobie-wan]

1 hour ago, DogsConkers said:

Just make all the reactant already dropped visible to the late-joiner

It is deleted from memory once everyone who is currently there has picked it up.

3 hours ago, PhreazerBurn said:

Calling picking up reactant "work" is a hilariously strong exaggeration of what could be considered work. It normally happens almost passively.

I already acknowledged it was a bad analogy. But on that point, the 'work' is dispatching all of the enemies up to that point.

[MagPrime]

I've been experiencing long load times and about 1/3 of my Fissure runs result in me joining late and having to hope the team will slow own so I can get enough reactant or just deal with not opening a Relic.  Aside from changing Reactant pick up to a pool type system, I could see DE allowing reactant to drop in larger numbers or doubling (1 Reactant - 1 point, change to 1 Reactant - 2 points) for late comers or have a large "mega" reactant drop that bumps them to equal the lowest number picked up, or even an average of the teams current total. 

 

[nslay]

7 hours ago, PhreazerBurn said:

Why hope that the other 3 players are going to endure double mission duration so that DE can be lazy and not implement a simple fix?

Because they often will wait if you make them aware of it. You think this just affects newbies? No, my friend, even those "meta" players join in the middle of Void fissure missions too and experience these same annoyances.

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

Having thought about this a little more, how about a reactant counter by each player's name/notification that everybody is full up?

I know a lot of pubstompers won't care anyway but not all of us are bumholes and will slow down a bit.

[PublikDomain]

24 minutes ago, (XBOX)Hellsteeth30 said:

Having thought about this a little more, how about a reactant counter by each player's name/notification that everybody is full up?

I know a lot of pubstompers won't care anyway but not all of us are bumholes and will slow down a bit.

We have that already.

[Hexerin]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Hellsteeth30 said:

Having thought about this a little more, how about a reactant counter by each player's name/notification that everybody is full up?

I know a lot of pubstompers won't care anyway but not all of us are bumholes and will slow down a bit.

As @PublikDomain said, there's already a permanently active counter with a unique icon next to all squad members on the squad list at all times. Even while empty or full, it's still there and states how many reactant that player has acquired (from 0 to 10).

Which is why there's no real excuse for players to leave a mission before the whole squad has reactant.