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Universal Vacuum/Fetch is better than radar

Ravers_Fallacy

By Ravers_Fallacy,
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Ravers_Fallacy

Ravers_Fallacy

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tl;dr Universal Vacuum/Fetch would help new player experience much more than radar. Having a loot vacuum before you unlock pets and Fetch or Vacuum mods.

One of the devs literally said something like "It takes a while to get around to animal instinct for new players"

yes. yes it does. it also takes a while to get vacuum/fetch on a pet.

New players having to TOUCH loot does not make the game fun. New players should be taught how to navigate with bullet jump, jumping NEAR loot and getting it picked up. There should not be ANY reason to walk into loot to pick it up when we have bullet jumping and speed/flying frames.

Watch new player videos on youtuber (like Markiplier) the game is so slow for them while everyone else is running ahead killing everything.

 

They literally just announced giving Kahl loot vacuum while I was writing this? I can't rewind live but I think I just heard that.

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Cerikus

Cerikus

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It's baffling to me that we still don't have universal vacuum and that the companion rework is basically a waste of time because the vacuum STILL goes away when the companion is "downed" which is basically the same as on the live build.

I will literally buy the highest priced Heirloom pack, if DE gives us univac.

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trst

trst

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Radar is far more useful and has less potential downsides than univac.

Map navigation and mobility are probably the biggest hurdles for players coming into the game and having them always pointed towards more enemies would help with that. While univac just lets them pick up resources at a slightly longer range. Meanwhile univac can lead to the problem it already causes with wasting consumable drops but is then forced onto everyone.

 

Honestly if anything DE should just make a vacuum Exilus mod. Can even throw it somewhere early in the Star Chart in case it is useful for new players.

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Ravers_Fallacy

Ravers_Fallacy

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58 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

No, I don't always want to have vacuum suck up things I don't need at the time. Radar though is bettwr.

what exactly do you NOT want to pick up at the time? The only thing I can think of is survival missions? and you're already at 100% and have drops on the ground?

42 minutes ago, trst said:

Meanwhile univac can lead to the problem it already causes with wasting consumable drops but is then forced onto everyone.

Please explain this more. Not trying to be rude or ignorant but I don't understand when this could ever be an issue?

 

42 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Nah, I'll just take the half a second to pick up the items.

Ok you're trolling. Or I suppose you might not be wrong. Half a second per drop. And most missions have about 300 drops. so, sure you are completely correct. over 2 minutes picking up drops instead of playing the game. Survivals can go upwards of THOUSANDS of kills, which can be about 1 thousand drops... you really are telling me you walk around touching every single drop... by choice?

Edited by Ravers_Fallacy
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trst

trst

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21 minutes ago, Ravers_Fallacy said:

Please explain this more. Not trying to be rude or ignorant but I don't understand when this could ever be an issue?

Since Vacuum forces you to use a pickup like ammo or energy the moment you can pick it up that means you can waste most of what they restore.

Like having a channeling ability active means you're always missing some energy thus running nearby some orbs means each can be restoring 1 or less energy instead of their base 25. Or something like Heavy Ammo getting their 1,000 rounds wasted since vacuum would pick it up if you're only missing 1. Or just using any automatic weapon and having just killed a whole group of enemies means you can eat every ammo drop for only a few rounds each if you continue firing.

That said these aren't issues if you're overcompensating with methods to restore all of these but it's an issue that creates itself. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the overuse of Vacuum is responsible for a lot of players thinking there's issues with ammo/energy economies.

And DE could make Vacuum "smart" or work some kind of overflow mechanic into the system. But now we're talking about system reworks when making the whole thing opt-in is already solving the problem.

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Hexerin

Hexerin

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1 hour ago, Cerikus said:

It's baffling to me that we still don't have universal vacuum and that the companion rework is basically a waste of time because the vacuum STILL goes away when the companion is "downed" which is basically the same as on the live build.

I will literally buy the highest priced Heirloom pack, if DE gives us univac.

Vacuum only disables if the companion actually dies. The immortal companions (at least Vulpaphyla, not sure about Djinn) still have vacuum active while they're "dead". If DE goes through with making vacuum disable while the companions are down in the new system, that's a huge QoL reduction for the 90% of the playerbase that uses Vulpaphylas.

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Cerikus

Cerikus

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5 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Vacuum only disables if the companion actually dies. The immortal companions (at least Vulpaphyla, not sure about Djinn) still have vacuum active while they're "dead". If DE goes through with making vacuum disable while the companions are down in the new system, that's a huge QoL reduction for the 90% of the playerbase that uses Vulpaphylas.

I don't mean downed in the sense of what is currently in the live build with companions such as kavats, kubrows, etc. I mean the new "downed" state of sentinels

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Hexerin

Hexerin

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2 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

I don't mean downed in the sense of what is currently in the live build with companions such as kavats, kubrows, etc. I mean the new "downed" state of sentinels

Current system:

  • Companion full dies, as in dead and gone and never returning the rest of the mission
    • Vacuum is disabled
  • Companion "dies" but is actually in the temporarily downed state that Vulphaphyla (and maybe Djinn?) go into before reviving
    • Vacuum is still active

New system coming with Dagath update:

  • All companions enter the temporary downed state if they're "killed", not just Vulpaphyla and Djinn
    • Vacuum is going to be disabled, per Pablo's statement "we're thinking about disabling vacuum while they're down" (paraphrase)

This is what I'm saying. If they actually do go through with what Pablo says they're thinking about, that is something that actively harms the majority of the playerbase. It's a completely #*!%ed and smoothbrain idea to go through with, and I genuinely cannot understand why they're even considering it.

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Cerikus

Cerikus

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Just now, Hexerin said:

Current system:

  • Companion full dies, as in dead and gone and never returning the rest of the mission
    • Vacuum is disabled
  • Companion "dies" but is actually in the temporarily downed state that Vulphaphyla (and maybe Djinn?) go into before reviving
    • Vacuum is still active

New system coming with Dagath update:

  • All companions enter the temporary downed state if they're "killed", not just Vulpaphyla and Djinn
    • Vacuum is going to be disabled, per Pablo's statement "we're thinking about disabling vacuum while they're down" (paraphrase)

This is what I'm saying. If they actually do go through with what Pablo says they're thinking about, that is something that actively harms the majority of the playerbase. It's a completely #*!%ed and smoothbrain idea to go through with, and I genuinely cannot understand why they're even considering it.

Oh I see now. Sorry, I completely misunderstood what you were saying.

Yes. As you are saying it would be horrible nerf and that's why I am posting about it. It cannot be like that.

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Hexerin

Hexerin

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4 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Oh I see now. Sorry, I completely misunderstood what you were saying.

Yes. As you are saying it would be horrible nerf and that's why I am posting about it. It cannot be like that.

I'm currently huffing copium that at least we have confirmation that there will be mechanics that allow us to actively accelerate the revival of the companion. So worst case scenario, the downtime theoretically won't be very long.

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Cerikus

Cerikus

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1 minute ago, Hexerin said:

I'm currently huffing copium that at least we have confirmation that there will be mechanics that allow us to actively accelerate the revival of the companion. So worst case scenario, the downtime theoretically won't be very long.

Nah, we cannot be huffing copium, we have to post so the vacuum is NOT disabled when the companion gets "downed".

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(PSN)Unstar

(PSN)Unstar

Posted
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Just a hypothesis, but I think that for truly new players, Vacuum would be a detriment.  It's hard to learn what various drops are and what they do if they're just flying into your face.  In this case, I think walking is the best way to start; they'll be able to run via modding soon enough.

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trst

trst

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37 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Current system:

  • Companion full dies, as in dead and gone and never returning the rest of the mission
    • Vacuum is disabled
  • Companion "dies" but is actually in the temporarily downed state that Vulphaphyla (and maybe Djinn?) go into before reviving
    • Vacuum is still active

New system coming with Dagath update:

  • All companions enter the temporary downed state if they're "killed", not just Vulpaphyla and Djinn
    • Vacuum is going to be disabled, per Pablo's statement "we're thinking about disabling vacuum while they're down" (paraphrase)

This is what I'm saying. If they actually do go through with what Pablo says they're thinking about, that is something that actively harms the majority of the playerbase. It's a completely #*!%ed and smoothbrain idea to go through with, and I genuinely cannot understand why they're even considering it.

It's a consistency thing if they want all pet effects disabled while downed. Plus they're adding a number of way to reduce that timer on top of increasing survivability across the board.

Sure there might be periods of having it disabled but you get to decide just how long that period is and there'll no longer be a point at which you never have it active. And considering that for years now players would intentionally die and force revive to bring back their companions just for vacuum this seems like it's still a win for the vacuum crowd.

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Hexerin

Hexerin

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12 minutes ago, trst said:

It's a consistency thing if they want all pet effects disabled while downed. Plus they're adding a number of way to reduce that timer on top of increasing survivability across the board.

Sure there might be periods of having it disabled but you get to decide just how long that period is and there'll no longer be a point at which you never have it active. And considering that for years now players would intentionally die and force revive to bring back their companions just for vacuum this seems like it's still a win for the vacuum crowd.

It's a win for the minority that don't use Vulphaphyla. It's a loss for anyone who uses Vulpaphyla, because they gain nothing (their pet already revives), but lose vacuum consistency.

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trst

trst

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22 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

It's a win for the minority that don't use Vulphaphyla. It's a loss for anyone who uses Vulpaphyla, because they gain nothing (their pet already revives), but lose vacuum consistency.

Except it's a win for everyone that only uses Vulphaphylas because of their immortality (which is the primary reason players flocked to them) and for those who don't use other companion exclusive effects because they think their survivability is lacking.

A trade off of a couple of seconds where you, as of right now might, not have vacuum in exchange of being able to freely use any other companion is very worthwhile.

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Ravers_Fallacy

Ravers_Fallacy

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2 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Current system:

  • Companion full dies, as in dead and gone and never returning the rest of the mission
    • Vacuum is disabled
  • Companion "dies" but is actually in the temporarily downed state that Vulphaphyla (and maybe Djinn?) go into before reviving
    • Vacuum is still active

New system coming with Dagath update:

  • All companions enter the temporary downed state if they're "killed", not just Vulpaphyla and Djinn
    • Vacuum is going to be disabled, per Pablo's statement "we're thinking about disabling vacuum while they're down" (paraphrase)

This is what I'm saying. If they actually do go through with what Pablo says they're thinking about, that is something that actively harms the majority of the playerbase. It's a completely #*!%ed and smoothbrain idea to go through with, and I genuinely cannot understand why they're even considering it.

it sells more boosters... if you're missing loot from a dead pet, you will be more inclined to pay for boosters to get more loot when your pet is alive... just like nightwave creds not telling you they 'expire' after the season.

New Player experience is literally losing everything you work for(in nightwave) because you weren't spending all your creds as you go and didn't know they become useless and have to sell them for credits after the season... yes this happened to me, yes i'm still extremely tilted over it.

i understand DE needs players to spend money, but why does it have to be predatory? why do we need 2 premium currencies? why does the skin PACK have to be an expensive FOMO pack? (and the devs just laughed that comment off and said the skins looked so good!... thanks you just explained how its FOMO)

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