Thoughts/input on new shield gating?

[(PSN)Nowhere-incoming]

Just now, LittleLeoniePrime said:

Mesa, Saryn, Grendel, Nekros and Valkyr are for sure all Health/Armor/DR tanks to me.

Mesa has 95% DR per default already.
Saryn can have a ton of health and with health conversion gets really damn tanky.
Grendel literally gets DR for eating people.
Nekros can use health conversion with ease and has shield of shadows.
And valkyr (prime) has the highest base armor of any frame in the entire game.

Saryn is barely a tank. She's just a less squishy caster.
Mesa is eh, explosions still bop her.

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 15 heures, deucich a dit :

You can get 1125 shields from 5 tauforged azure shards. Which means you can reach 2.5s shieldgate without any mods on every warframe but Nidus and Inaros. Including Grendel.

True and I agree, but it's sad to use Archon Shards (or a Mod slot) to get something that we used to have as an innate mechanic. Making Archon Shards or Mods mandatory just to have a mechanic we used to have "for free" limitates modding options.

Il y a 15 heures, deucich a dit :

If you insist on calling any shildgate that hasn't reached its maximum as partial, you do you. I don't see the reason to use two separate terms for 2.48s vs. 2.5s invulnerability windows or call full something that is reachable with only partially refilled shields.

It's the same reason why players will talk about Full Hp, Full Ammo, Full Energy...

There will be at least four steps of shield gate durations (no matter the names) : minimum shield gate duration (0.33s) ; maximum shield gate duration (the cap of 2.5s - except for Hildryn) ; full shield gate duration (the cap for a specific frame depending on its modded amount of shields) ; partial shield gate (everything under the full duration). It's only a way to distinguish the different steps.

Il y a 15 heures, deucich a dit :

How isn't that clear from the Dev Workshop? oO Grendel usually has less than 325 shields, therefore his shieldgate will be below current 1.33s. Unless you go for archon shards.

That was the way I understood it, but other players had another opinion. Thankfully, Pablo gave us an answer.

Il y a 15 heures, deucich a dit :

I don't see why it should be other way. And I don't see anyone saying otherwise here

Because it could be : the fact that another player asked if her partial shield gate duration (everything that is below the cap) will also be increased shows that not everybody was understanding it the same way.

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

Now for this. This is using our current knowledge of how shield gateing works that being that thats an all or nothing situation, if you 99% of your shields restored youd get .33 secs but if you had 100% youd get 1.33. When the update rolls out this will no longer be the case, see with the way it works now since theres no inbetween you basically forced to out all out since .33 is just not enough. With the new system tho there will much more variations in the gate time, with current shield gate builds the amount of shield that they restore might just be enough to get a useable gate but more likely will need small tweaks like using a 75 energy cost ability instead of a 50 cost or using an additional auger mod. Basically theres gonna be a new magic number for shield gate builds, what that number will be well we will have to wait and see but I know for sure that the new catalyzing shields mods isnt gonna provide as much value as you might think.

I'll just answer this part, since the other section above adds absolutely nothing since you will never get the free part of the key, or you get it or just willingly ignore it.

There will be no new magic number really. Since the same minimum time still exsists and any shields above that will increase that "partial" window. So the new mod will be the go to for practically any frame that ends up at or below the point where shields grant you 1.33 sec. Since you need less shields replenished to go from the stages between 0.33 to 1.33 with that mod compared to hitting those points with baseline shields around 325 (the cut point for 1.3 sec gate under the new system).

In practice since the mod reduces shields by 80% you'll need 80% less shields per second of "partial" gate. Meaning you get far more out of the corrupted mod than you'd ever get from more augur mods.

As their example with 100 shields with the mod.

• 100 Shields at Shield Break: 1.33s of Shield Gating
• 75 Shields at Shield Break: 1.0s of Shield Gating
• 50 Shields at Shield Break: 0.67s of Shield Gating
• 25 Shields at Shield Break: 0.34s of Shield Gating
• 10 Shields at Shield Break: 0.33s of Shield Gating

A 325 shield frame needs 65 shields to hit 1.33 seconds with the corrupted mod equipped. In return if you stay at baseline and build for more shields/E you still need 325 replenished to hit 1.33 sec. And to hit the 75% mark (1 second flat) you need 50 shields replenished with the corrupted mod and 244 if you go with baseline shields for the same frame.

Now beyond 325 baseline shields and given what skills a frame has access to, there might be a new magical number regarding when to use the corrupted mod or not. But at that point we'll likely see far more use of bigger shields, reduced recharge delay and higher shield recharge values instead of more augur modding since shield value scales how much shields per sec you get etc.

[Leqesai]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Nowhere-incoming said:

Yeah king of sitting in a corner. 

I do not believe I said it was a good or bad thing. Just pointing out the facts. 

[(NSW)warfare3376]

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'll just answer this part, since the other section above adds absolutely nothing since you will never get the free part of the key, or you get it or just willingly ignore it.

There will be no new magic number really. Since the same minimum time still exsists and any shields above that will increase that "partial" window. So the new mod will be the go to for practically any frame that ends up at or below the point where shields grant you 1.33 sec. Since you need less shields replenished to go from the stages between 0.33 to 1.33 with that mod compared to hitting those points with baseline shields around 325 (the cut point for 1.3 sec gate under the new system).

In practice since the mod reduces shields by 80% you'll need 80% less shields per second of "partial" gate. Meaning you get far more out of the corrupted mod than you'd ever get from more augur mods.

As their example with 100 shields with the mod.

• 100 Shields at Shield Break: 1.33s of Shield Gating
• 75 Shields at Shield Break: 1.0s of Shield Gating
• 50 Shields at Shield Break: 0.67s of Shield Gating
• 25 Shields at Shield Break: 0.34s of Shield Gating
• 10 Shields at Shield Break: 0.33s of Shield Gating

A 325 shield frame needs 65 shields to hit 1.33 seconds with the corrupted mod equipped. In return if you stay at baseline and build for more shields/E you still need 325 replenished to hit 1.33 sec. And to hit the 75% mark (1 second flat) you need 50 shields replenished with the corrupted mod and 244 if you go with baseline shields for the same frame.

Now beyond 325 baseline shields and given what skills a frame has access to, there might be a new magical number regarding when to use the corrupted mod or not. But at that point we'll likely see far more use of bigger shields, reduced recharge delay and higher shield recharge values instead of more augur modding since shield value scales how much shields per sec you get etc.

Again youre thinking about it with the same mentality as with the old system where you need to get the 1.33 sec duration, again the current system is an all or nothing type deal, you had to fully commit and get the full 1.33 duration simply because any less would only be .33. That will no longer be the case with the new system, it will no longer be either 1.33 or .33 there will much more variation.

I really dont understand how you got to 244 being needed fora flat one second gate duration when actually it looks much closer to 175ish shields tho hard to tell without exact numbers. Its only with catalyzing shields that the duration scales with your max shields, the normal shield gate wont Paublo even mentioned this in a tweet about grendel needing catalyzing shields if you want the 1.33 sec gate on him since he only has 95 base shield when the update launches. Now with brief respite and 2 auger mods in your secondary a 50 energy cost will recover 115 shields which will not give the flat 1 second and looks closer to .7 secs, with a 75 cost will get you 172 shields back which is around that flat sec mark, with an extra auger mod it goes up to 135 and 202 shields respectfully. Now compare that to the 1.33 sec you get from catalyzing shields, youre only getting extra .6 sec if you use a 50 cost ability and .3 secs with a 75 cost. Really the biggest benefit you would get from using catalyzing shields is better energy efficiency (as most likely you will need at least the 1 sec gate so 50 cost gates may no longer be viable) which some frames would definitely like the extra energy but aside from that there isnt much extra. Using another auger mod in that slot nets you the extra benefit of getting extra range, strength or duration onto you build while also not having the maximum duration of the gate capped to 1.33, you see with shield gate builds you do not want to be taking damage every single second cause if you were you would not last very long as your energy drain would be too much to sustain. The are some frames that can get away with that more but most frames the gate is only a safety net that drains a chunk of energy every 1.3 secs that you havent dealt with the threat, you are not just sitting there taking in all enemy fire, like so many people is what happens for whatever reason, because if you do so will run out of energy so extremely fast and then die. So without catalyzing shield a very slight tweak to your normal shield gate builds you will have about a 1 sec emergency gate which is slightly less but provided you are not getting hit every second not only would you get the full 1.33 sec initial gate but it will actually be longer depending on your frames max base shields.

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by (NSW)warfare3376

[Joezone619]

I think these shield changes will finally have people focus shields some frames instead of health/armor on all of them. the raise to 50% damage reduction is significant, and compounded by the recharge delay mods.

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, Joezone619 said:

I think these shield changes will finally have people focus shields some frames instead of health/armor on all of them. the raise to 50% damage reduction is significant, and compounded by the recharge delay mods.

[Metalgearfox]

On 2023-09-30 at 8:53 PM, Loza03 said:

Shield-gating was overtuned in the current meta

^^^
Shield gating should be okay for characters with massive shields, still.
It never made sense that running almost 0 shield was optimal. 

[Zekkii]

1 hour ago, Joezone619 said:

I think these shield changes will finally have people focus shields some frames instead of health/armor on all of them. the raise to 50% damage reduction is significant, and compounded by the recharge delay mods.

The main problem with shield recharge mods is that they're more effective at refreshing the shield gate than actually restoring shields.  As an example, a frame with 1500 shield has a natural shield regen rate of 90 and a recharge delay of 4 seconds after shield break.  It would take them 20.67 seconds of not taking damage to restore their shield to full naturally.  If you were to equip Fast Deflection, it would increase your regen to 171 per second and your recharge delay to 2.2 seconds.  It's a notable improvement, but it would still take 10.97 seconds of avoiding damage to recharge your shield.  Even with all three shield regen mods, it still takes 6.3 seconds of avoiding damage to recover you shield, which isn't a feasible means of survivability.

The real use case of shield recharge is to get it below 0.33 seconds so the shield gate restores faster than it expires.  There are only two things that allow you to do this alone, to my knowledge (excluding Arcane Aegis):

• Gauss' passive -80% recharge delay with the new mods
• Vazarin's janky Guardian Break operability ability with the new mods

I suspect they may even patch the Gauss thing, as he can essentially just slap on two beginner mods and become immortal to everything other than toxin.

[Leqesai]

20 minutes ago, Zekkii said:

The main problem with shield recharge mods is that they're more effective at refreshing the shield gate than actually restoring shields.  As an example, a frame with 1500 shield has a natural shield regen rate of 90 and a recharge delay of 4 seconds after shield break.  It would take them 20.67 seconds of not taking damage to restore their shield to full naturally.  If you were to equip Fast Deflection, it would increase your regen to 171 per second and your recharge delay to 2.2 seconds.  It's a notable improvement, but it would still take 10.97 seconds of avoiding damage to recharge your shield.  Even with all three shield regen mods, it still takes 6.3 seconds of avoiding damage to recover you shield, which isn't a feasible means of survivability.

The real use case of shield recharge is to get it below 0.33 seconds so the shield gate restores faster than it expires.  There are only two things that allow you to do this alone, to my knowledge (excluding Arcane Aegis):

• Gauss' passive -80% recharge delay with the new mods
• Vazarin's janky Guardian Break operability ability with the new mods

I suspect they may even patch the Gauss thing, as he can essentially just slap on two beginner mods and become immortal to everything other than toxin.

Most likely the mods will work multiplicative with other sources of regen and/or diminishing returns.

[(NSW)warfare3376]

1 hour ago, Joezone619 said:

I think these shield changes will finally have people focus shields some frames instead of health/armor on all of them. the raise to 50% damage reduction is significant, and compounded by the recharge delay mods.

This would only be true for normal nonendurance missions, health and armor already can achieve way higher than 50% dr yet is not viable in high lvl endurance. Now technically speaking modding for more shields would yield more benefit modding more health, but only for a single damage instance. Once that initial shield gate activates well now all of a sudden you no longer have the benefit of having the larger shield unless fully replenish it back up, but good luck with that since all it takes is one bullet for your shields to be droped back down to zero and have to restart from the beginning. You then only left with 2 options either fully replenish those shields instantly but if the maximum is above 1k good luck with or your other option being to camp a spot to hide in cover/hard cc everything to not take any damage and allows your shields to naturally replenish but if you not taking damage in the 1st place than you wouldnt need the longer shield gate making the extra shields you modded for pointless. 

That said there is something to say with the shield recharge delay buffs, those I actually do see getting used quite often tho its probably not for the reason you would think. It would not be paired with higher shields, it would be paired with other recharge delay sources such as vazarins guardian break which would enable crazy shield gate setups by making the shield recharge rate from empty faster than the partial shield gate innumerability period. Now there will be use cases for it for purely shield tanking build like on hildyrn it will be especially good but in terms of meta the main use I see it having is to enhance shield gating.

Reason I say all this is cause there a big difference between whats good in normal casual everyday content and high lvl endurance type content. Like current shield gating for example, its extremely good in high lvl content but is actually quite bad in lower lvl content in comparison to other options but people dont realize this because they focus too much on the upper ends. When people ask for advice for builds you typically will always see people asking endgame builds or lvl cap builds, people always want to seek out the best of the best but most never understand why its the best which ends causing whatever that thing is to become way too overvalued. Take slash for instance, slash tics are mathematically the worst scaling DoT in the game however since it bypasses armor its actually the best DoT in the game. Point is theres gonna be one aspect of this update that significantly effects the meta while in the process make the aspects look like garbage in comparison just like with the introduction to shield gate and we are probably gonna repeat the same cycle.

[RichardKam]

4小时前 , (NSW)warfare3376 说:

Reason I say all this is cause there a big difference between whats good in normal casual everyday content and high lvl endurance type content. Like current shield gating for example, its extremely good in high lvl content but is actually quite bad in lower lvl content in comparison to other options but people dont realize this because they focus too much on the upper ends. When people ask for advice for builds you typically will always see people asking endgame builds or lvl cap builds, people always want to seek out the best of the best but most never understand why its the best which ends causing whatever that thing is to become way too overvalued. Take slash for instance, slash tics are mathematically the worst scaling DoT in the game however since it bypasses armor its actually the best DoT in the game. Point is theres gonna be one aspect of this update that significantly effects the meta while in the process make the aspects look like garbage in comparison just like with the introduction to shield gate and we are probably gonna repeat the same cycle.

It is pretty ironic because this game provides a gigantic arsenal with complex builds and abilities and mods synergy. It is like a sandbox game in which you can tailor your own gameplay style for every frame and make them fun and viable even in SP contents (not you Caliban, sit down). 

But also because this game is so complex, lots of people were intimidated and instead of learning and progressing through the fun part of the system, they took the easy way out i.e. ask for builds, meta builds, slash viral HM on everything,  shield gating is compulsory, something like that and call it a day, without understanding how HM or shield gating work, and then parroting the misconception to others.

[Leqesai]

50 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

It is pretty ironic because this game provides a gigantic arsenal with complex builds and abilities and mods synergy. It is like a sandbox game in which you can tailor your own gameplay style for every frame and make them fun and viable even in SP contents (not you Caliban, sit down). 

But also because this game is so complex, lots of people were intimidated and instead of learning and progressing through the fun part of the system, they took the easy way out i.e. ask for builds, meta builds, slash viral HM on everything,  shield gating is compulsory, something like that and call it a day, without understanding how HM or shield gating work, and then parroting the misconception to others.

How dare you do my boy dirty. Caliban is absolutely steel path viable.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Leqesai

[(PSN)rexis12]

Personally I have it so that they have like a two kind. A full shield gate at full shield restoration, and a partial one based on the maximum modded shield.

But incentivising AND buffing building for shields is always good. I do wonder if Overshield is counted in the shield gate value.

[Leqesai]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Personally I have it so that they have like a two kind. A full shield gate at full shield restoration, and a partial one based on the maximum modded shield.

But incentivising AND buffing building for shields is always good. I do wonder if Overshield is counted in the shield gate value.

I would doubt it if overshield is counted but even if it is there is a cap to shield gate time. 

[(PSN)rexis12]

22 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I would doubt it if overshield is counted but even if it is there is a cap to shield gate time. 

Yeah, but it would help with certain caster spamming frames if they could build up enough Overshield fast enough to give them more survivability.

It would be a neat reward for putting in either the efforts or by removing a part of a Frame's kit to get that extra survivability.

[Leqesai]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Yeah, but it would help with certain caster spamming frames if they could build up enough Overshield fast enough to give them more survivability.

It would be a neat reward for putting in either the efforts or by removing a part of a Frame's kit to get that extra survivability.

Yeah I could see that for sure.

[Zekkii]

1 hour ago, RichardKam said:

slash viral HM on everything

This is more DE's fault than anything.  Base steel path enemies can get over 99% damage reduction from armour alone.  When Corrosive Projection and the Corrosive status effect were seeing unanimous use, instead of addressing the overbearing effect of armour they nerfed them so they could no longer full strip.

If they want people to use elements like Blast, Magnetic, Impact, or Puncture then it can't take 100 times as much damage for the same effect.  DE knows this, which is exactly why Hydroid is getting reworked into not only a Corrosive frame, but one who can full strip armour.

[(PSN)rexis12]

29 minutes ago, Zekkii said:

This is more DE's fault than anything.  Base steel path enemies can get over 99% damage reduction from armour alone.  When Corrosive Projection and the Corrosive status effect were seeing unanimous use, instead of addressing the overbearing effect of armour they nerfed them so they could no longer full strip.

If they want people to use elements like Blast, Magnetic, Impact, or Puncture then it can't take 100 times as much damage for the same effect.  DE knows this, which is exactly why Hydroid is getting reworked into not only a Corrosive frame, but one who can full strip armour.

Yeah it's always funny seeing how the community seemingly blames the players for r just sticking to Slash Viral Heat, but the concept of us doing that because of the way the mechanics and games work is foreign to them and that it's our fault for

'Checks Notes'

Wanting to kill things in a timely manner

I suppose.

Hell even things like Magnetic and Toxin run into the issue that the side that it would be the best against has ARMOUR in them, specifically Armour that reduces damage to them by a SIGNIFICANT margin. It's so weird when I learned that Magnetic, the 'Corpus Killer Element' is 50% Weaker to Alloy.

[ShogunGunshow]

Rise of the Rakta Dark Dagger.

[(PSN)rexis12]

Just now, ShogunGunshow said:

Rise of the Rakta Dark Dagger.

Nah, you need shields to get the Rakta Shield Regen effect.

Funny enough that wasn't the case before, as you could get it without the shields as long as the Rad proc was on but they nerfed it.

[ShogunGunshow]

They nerfed it shortly after shield gating was introduced because, as long as you were meleeing, you were effectively immortal.

With the new shield gate changes and shield regen delay reduction mods, it is very possible to start regenning shields before you become vulnerable again. So, the situation has a good chance of happening again.

But you also don't even need to necessarily exploit delay. If you have a >2 second gate, it's not hard to just hit an ability with one augur mod equipped and then melee your way to >700 shields.

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

Again youre thinking about it with the same mentality as with the old system where you need to get the 1.33 sec duration, again the current system is an all or nothing type deal, you had to fully commit and get the full 1.33 duration simply because any less would only be .33. That will no longer be the case with the new system, it will no longer be either 1.33 or .33 there will much more variation.

Nope I'm not thinking about an all or nothing system. I'm thinking about the new system and the info at hand. Where if you want to make use of the new system to its fullest on frames with 325 or lower shields the corrupted mod will be the way, since it allows your shields to scale from 0.33 to 1.33 while also reducing how much shields you need to replenish per second of invulnerability. And above 325 it depends on if it is worth building larger shields incase you have access to a reliable replenish or not to reach the longer invulnerability that comes from <325 shields. It being all or nothing or not doesnt change any of that, since hitting longer gates with less energy spent will be better since well... it offers you longer invulnerability for far far far less energy spent.

19 hours ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

I really dont understand how you got to 244 being needed fora flat one second gate duration when actually it looks much closer to 175ish shields tho hard to tell without exact numbers.

By simple math and the exact numbers which we do have access to that I also posted which comes straight from the shield gate dev shop. It is all % based. So to get to 1 seconds you need to replenish 75% of your full shields if you have 325 shields (the breakpoint where frames recieve the current 1.33 seconds). Which is 243.75, or rounded up 244. 175-ish would be closer to half shields, so 0.67 sec. They were even kind to post the example based on 100 shields with the key to make the "break points" easy to see in connected to percentages.

19 hours ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

Its only with catalyzing shields that the duration scales with your max shields, the normal shield gate wont Paublo even mentioned this in a tweet about grendel needing catalyzing shields if you want the 1.33 sec gate on him since he only has 95 base shield when the update launches. Now with brief respite and 2 auger mods in your secondary a 50 energy cost will recover 115 shields which will not give the flat 1 second and looks closer to .7 secs, with a 75 cost will get you 172 shields back which is around that flat sec mark, with an extra auger mod it goes up to 135 and 202 shields respectfully. Now compare that to the 1.33 sec you get from catalyzing shields, youre only getting extra .6 sec if you use a 50 cost ability and .3 secs with a 75 cost. Really the biggest benefit you would get from using catalyzing shields is better energy efficiency (as most likely you will need at least the 1 sec gate so 50 cost gates may no longer be viable) which some frames would definitely like the extra energy but aside from that there isnt much extra.

Why would a 50 cost skill not be enough? The numbers they show are an example that will not be a thing for any frame that wants the corrupted key, since you will end up with 70 shields on most of those frames because it removes 80%. So you need 52.5 shields to get the full second. But since the system scales you wont notice if you get the flat 1 second or end up just shy of it incase you use something that grants 50 shields. But since you need atleast 1 mod that converts energy you will like already have brief respite since it is a low opportunity cost slot considering how shoddy auras are overall. Which means without efficiency mods in the picture, it will allow any 50 cost skill to grant 75 shields instead. Meaning that not only do you hit the 1 second, you hit the cap on all those frames with 350 base shields and the corrupted mod slotted.

And if you start adding in efficiency in either case the corrupted mod will be even more forgiving compared to staying at base shields and grabbing an augur mod instead since your skills cost up to 75% less and you need 80% shields replenished to get extra duration on your gate. An extra augur mod only increases the conversion by another 40% as opposed to needing 80% less shields refilled. And I rather have something that works with efficiency since efficiency mean less impact from leech pools, disruptors and magnetic in general while also increasing the value of energy orbs.

19 hours ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

Using another auger mod in that slot nets you the extra benefit of getting extra range, strength or duration onto you build while also not having the maximum duration of the gate capped to 1.33, you see with shield gate builds you do not want to be taking damage every single second cause if you were you would not last very long as your energy drain would be too much to sustain. The are some frames that can get away with that more but most frames the gate is only a safety net that drains a chunk of energy every 1.3 secs that you havent dealt with the threat, you are not just sitting there taking in all enemy fire, like so many people is what happens for whatever reason, because if you do so will run out of energy so extremely fast and then die. So without catalyzing shield a very slight tweak to your normal shield gate builds you will have about a 1 sec emergency gate which is slightly less but provided you are not getting hit every second not only would you get the full 1.33 sec initial gate but it will actually be longer depending on your frames max base shields.

Which doesnt mean that you wont have those mods slotted with the key either and you most often do not need all 3 stats. Even if I'd use the corrupted mod chances are high I'd utilize atleast some of the augur mods, between 2-3 very likely with 1-2 on frame and another on the secondary. But unless you badly need all 3 stats, picking between another augur or the corrupted mod shouldnt really be a thing on frames that sit around 325-350 base shields.

Not being capped to 1.33 isnt really a benefit, not on the frames I mention. Being able to get more than the base shields at times isnt as beneficial as getting 1-1.33 seconds of invulnerability constantly, since the longer gate they can grab on occasion wont be long enough in comparison. 

And of course it depends on the base shield, which I've already been over. Which is why I've specifically mentioned those frames that have 350 or lower shields. Beyond that it depends on how the frames can sustain shields on their own and how large and regularly they can replenish them. For the low shield frames with no kit based replenishment it really depends on which costs the least slots.

For me, if I'll start bothering with actively using the shield gate (havent had a need to so far) the corrupted mod will end up on all frames without an innate method of large or constant shield replenishment, since I prefer to have cheap skills aswell. So for me it will be maxed efficiency, corrupted mod and brief respite in those cases. Unless I just keep going with the 0.33 window I do now.

[(NSW)warfare3376]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

By simple math and the exact numbers which we do have access to that I also posted which comes straight from the shield gate dev shop. It is all % based. So to get to 1 seconds you need to replenish 75% of your full shields if you have 325 shields (the breakpoint where frames recieve the current 1.33 seconds). Which is 243.75, or rounded up 244. 175-ish would be closer to half shields, so 0.67 sec. They were even kind to post the example based on 100 shields with the key to make the "break points" easy to see in connected to percentages.

No, its only while using the catalyzing shields mod that it will make the gate duration scale with your shield percentage. Shield gate without the mod equipped will only scale based of your total amount of shields at the time not the percentage of shields, like think about it for a second if it did work the way you think its going to than it would always be a downside to actually mod for more shields which is why it doesnt work that way.

 

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Why would a 50 cost skill not be enough? The numbers they show are an example that will not be a thing for any frame that wants the corrupted key, since you will end up with 70 shields on most of those frames because it removes 80%. So you need 52.5 shields to get the full second. But since the system scales you wont notice if you get the flat 1 second or end up just shy of it incase you use something that grants 50 shields. But since you need atleast 1 mod that converts energy you will like already have brief respite since it is a low opportunity cost slot considering how shoddy auras are overall. Which means without efficiency mods in the picture, it will allow any 50 cost skill to grant 75 shields instead. Meaning that not only do you hit the 1 second, you hit the cap on all those frames with 350 base shields and the corrupted mod slotted.

You didnt read a thing I said did you? This is exactly what I mean by people overvaluing the key and now in the case the mod to replace the key. You are tunnel visioning way too hard on this mod, if you had actually read what I said you would see that I said a 50 cast cost probably wont be viable without the catalyzing shields mod as you would only get about a .7ish sec gate from it which makes the mod give an extra .6 secs but with a 75 cost you would get around 1 sec in which the mod would only be giving .3 extra secs. I then go on to say that yes the mod does give extra energy efficiency in which giga energy hungry frames would might want to use, but aside for that not much and for shield gate builds you dont care about efficiency cause if you end up putting yourself in a situation where you need to constantly be refreshing your shield gate to where you do need that efficiency well guess what youre going to be spending way more energy than you would if you just casting once or twice then either kill off the threat or bullet jump to a safer spot since needing to spend 50 energy hell even 25 energy per second is a ton of energy.

 

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And if you start adding in efficiency in either case the corrupted mod will be even more forgiving compared to staying at base shields and grabbing an augur mod instead since your skills cost up to 75% less and you need 80% shields replenished to get extra duration on your gate. An extra augur mod only increases the conversion by another 40% as opposed to needing 80% less shields refilled. And I rather have something that works with efficiency since efficiency mean less impact from leech pools, disruptors and magnetic in general while also increasing the value of energy orbs.

As I said above shield gate builds dont use efficiency because if youre actively killing enemies and moving around not only are you going to be shot at less since theres less enemies but also theres going to be more energy orbs that get dropped meaning you would be using less energy to shield gate but also gaining more energy on top of it. People tend to think that what shield gating is just you sitting there spamming abilities to chain the invulnerability window infinitely but if that was true people would just use revenant. In reality its actually used in bursts, you do not want to be using it all the time because doing so with put you at a net negative with energy income which is vey bad considering that when youre shield gating you are basically turning your energy bar into a health bar.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Which doesnt mean that you wont have those mods slotted with the key either and you most often do not need all 3 stats. Even if I'd use the corrupted mod chances are high I'd utilize atleast some of the augur mods, between 2-3 very likely with 1-2 on frame and another on the secondary. But unless you badly need all 3 stats, picking between another augur or the corrupted mod shouldnt really be a thing on frames that sit around 325-350 base shields.

You see heres the thing, since shield gating will be based on current shields rather than needing to be at max it will mean that you will always get the same 1ish sec gate duration of using a 75 cost ability with respite and 2 secondary augers while taking up no slots for the main build. If you have to use additional augers to make catalyzing work it and get a few extra milliseconds makes it even worse than just not using the mod and instead just gating with a 75 cost ability. The only real benefit is cheaper gates and as Ive mentioned earlier thats as big a deal as you might think.

[GPrime96]

On 2023-10-04 at 1:51 PM, Joezone619 said:

I think these shield changes will finally have people focus shields some frames instead of health/armor on all of them. the raise to 50% damage reduction is significant, and compounded by the recharge delay mods.

Except most players are focusing on shields for the gating while leaving Health/Armor alone. After the change, shield gating would be even more passive.