Console players shouldn't be able to be hosts

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

1 hour ago, Mag_Gaming said:

My issue with console hosts is enemy spawns.

From my understanding, console players with old gen are still supported for some reason (I´m hoping that the upcoming update of whisphers in the walls being made entirely in the ENHANCED graphics engine will finally end it as their hardware will literally not be able to play it) and the negative side effect if they are the host is that enemy spawns are SEVERELY reduced and this is still the case.

 

So until that is changed I kinda completely avoid console hosts.

We just had a player post about not being able to get an updated console...and you are saying DE should just stop catering to those consoles. Someone else mentioned that DE doesn't optimize the game on older consoles yet clearly they have done this for a very long time.

I bring this up because the player base already has solutions to these issues and they are promoted almost every time these threads come up: recruit chat, clan play and friend play. The parameters are much more controlled when communication and organization is considered, and saying you don't have time doesn't work when your entire mission is to play for hours. Honestly, I have yet to have an issue when using these tools and, while it could take longer to initiate, the benefit of having an entire squad on the same page as you is excellent. 

We cannot control people's internet, systems or power, but we can communicate and organize.

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

25 minutes ago, L3512 said:

That is not even a proper solution as you will not be able to play with PC players that have cross play enabled so you are reducing your matchmaking to effectively solo.

I think it's an ideal solution. If all these PC players with the attitude of the OP would just turn crossplay off, they'd only be able to play with each other -- talk about perfect matchmaking!

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

1 hour ago, Howdoipickaname said:

This has nothing to do with ping or them leaving early 

{Game has become severely unoptimized on older consoles with long load times and frequent disconnects}

1 hour ago, Howdoipickaname said:

 I'm not asking for a kick feature at all and neither was the other guy so perhaps stop projecting other issues into the primary discussion. 

The GAME kicks console players out half the time we try and join a public session. "We can't join 1/3 of survival/capture missions we queue into."

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

On 2023-11-16 at 7:00 PM, Howdoipickaname said:

 I just want consoles to not be able to host 

(Going after all the console players because of old gen consoles or people with bad internet). {If someone can't afford more than a $300 console why are you expecting them to have top tier competitive connection} 

(Also projecting by saying "all console players have bad internet and must be punished, it's THEIR fault and only PC players should be allowed to host.")

Edited November 18, 2023 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[Mag_Gaming]

34 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

We just had a player post about not being able to get an updated console...and you are saying DE should just stop catering to those consoles. Someone else mentioned that DE doesn't optimize the game on older consoles yet clearly they have done this for a very long time.

I bring this up because the player base already has solutions to these issues and they are promoted almost every time these threads come up: recruit chat, clan play and friend play. The parameters are much more controlled when communication and organization is considered, and saying you don't have time doesn't work when your entire mission is to play for hours. Honestly, I have yet to have an issue when using these tools and, while it could take longer to initiate, the benefit of having an entire squad on the same page as you is excellent. 

We cannot control people's internet, systems or power, but we can communicate and organize.

The point of your comment is what?

Are you seriously trying to educate me that things like recruiting chat exist and that you can disable crossplay (even though you really shouldn´t be the one disabling crossplay if you have the better machine and you are simply suffering due to the system not recognizing that player x has an old console that can´t handle hosting and PC spawns, not to mention most of the population plays with crossplay on and disabling it puts you in a much smaller player pool)?

 

The most obvious and simple bandaid to the whole issue would be to prevent old gen console players from hosting pubs EVER. They can still join dugh.

 

And this player u mentioned who isn´t able to get a new console while this game has been out for 10 years now really shouldn´t be catered to so that we all suffer. It´s not and shouldn´t be DE´s problem that YOU (that player) cannot afford a better machine even after such a long time.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Mag_Gaming

[MutoManiac]

Meanwhile on a pretty good gaming laptop and decent internet, when I host, I lag. If I lag myself, it must be terrible for others, so platform doesn’t guarantee anything. I usually know when I’ll be host when the count down doesn’t find others right away, I tend to abort the load so others won’t suffer my hosting. 

I do get matched with mostly console players and for the most part the connections are much better than when I host. And there are more players since cross play or it seems like there are so double plus good?

Edited November 17, 2023 by MutoManiac

[L3512]

35 minutes ago, (XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn said:

I think it's an ideal solution. If all these PC players with the attitude of the OP would just turn crossplay off, they'd only be able to play with each other -- talk about perfect matchmaking!

Cross play is enabled by default and people don't even know there is an option to turn it off.

Remember these conversations when WF mobile comes out and people start whinging about inferior hardware.

[Hexerin]

On 2023-11-01 at 12:25 PM, Hexerin said:

Like, it's understandable (to an extent) why it is the way it is. However, it's dumb as hell that there's no toggles for us in the settings to make this not an issue:

• Host Only
  • When selecting a mission, skips matchmaking and starts mission with you as host.
  • Randoms can be added to your squad as clients, as normal.
• Only Join PC
  • The matchmaker will only ever place you into missions hosted by a PC player.
  • If you have a partial squad, they of course follow you into that mission as normal.
  • You are still able to host your own missions of course, if the matchmaker can't find a suitable squad.

The only toggle we have is the toggle to disable crossplay entirely. Which, as mentioned in the OP, literally puts you in a separate matchmaking system entirely. You can only match with other people who have crossplay disabled as well, you'll never match with other PC players who have crossplay enabled. For obvious reasons, this massively reduces your matchmaking pool, because very few people disable crossplay. This setting is terrible, and we absolutely need more control as mentioned above.

Just quoting myself from another thread, since my stance hasn't changed on the subject.

51 minutes ago, L3512 said:

Cross play is enabled by default and people don't even know there is an option to turn it off.

Remember these conversations when WF mobile comes out and people start whinging about inferior hardware.

WF mobile might be the straw that breaks the camel's back for a lot of people on PC, pushing them to disable crossplay permanently.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Hexerin

[AntifreezeUnder0]

I mean you can always disable crossplay. To avoid shenanigans inolving console platforms.

Having console as host give lesser enemy spawns,  in sp and specific missions and then those missions take longer than usual and give less loot. Compared if the host was PC. Thats my only issue with console hosts.

And you can also use tools given by game- Recruit chat so there is no need to make posts about ones lazyness to form proper squad for specific goals and suggest that ones should or should not be hosts.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Gaming is light entertainment and there aren't enough PC hosts to be there for when I want to do 30 minutes in a survival.

I imagine most PC hosts are too busy doing an 18 hour run for elite loots and using Gatorade bottles to relieve themselves.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Howdoipickaname:

I am sick of these guys coming into long form missions and being host with AWFUL ping and then leaving after one run or one part of a bounty and leaving thus making me sit in the loading screen and more than likely bugging the run so I have to leave my mission and LOSE rewards or even have to alt f4 and restart the game. This is just a terrible issue that I'm sick of dealing with. Thoughts or counter points?

And what about performance with more enemies on the screen on consoles if they join pc host?
If consoles can handle it, why is there such a limitation at all?

[o0Despair0o]

3 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

We just had a player post about not being able to get an updated console...and you are saying DE should just stop catering to those consoles.

I mean, being unable to upgrade is one thing, but holding back the entire community because of a minority? Yeah, no.

[o0Despair0o]

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

WF mobile might be the straw that breaks the camel's back for a lot of people on PC, pushing them to disable crossplay permanently.

The sad part is that this isn't even that unlikely.

I returned from a 1+ year long break recently - I knew crossplay was a thing but I left it enabled because "hey, faster matchmaking!". But good lord, 7/10 missions I get loading screen lasting 20+ seconds because the one console player hasn't even loaded halfway while everyone else is sitting at 100%. If there aren't any console players in the squad, loading is significantly faster 95% of the time.

Don't get me wrong, I am pro-crossplay. And I intent to leave it enabled. But if the mobile version will make this issue even worse? Yeah I'm out.

[Hexerin]

51 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

And what about performance with more enemies on the screen on consoles if they join pc host?
If consoles can handle it, why is there such a limitation at all?

There's a big difference between seeing enemies and hosting enemies. The host has to handle all the computations and such that make the enemy AI actually function. The client simply receives the bare minimum data from the host, such as enemy position and when it attacks etc.

There's a reason that you always want to set up a dedicated device to host game servers/instances, rather than host it on the same device as the host player. It takes a lot of device resources (primarily CPU and RAM, but some games offload some things to GPU etc) to run servers/instances.

[Genitive]

6 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

If I was on a bad console like Xbox one, and they implemented what you said, why would I choose to always join a session that will probably disconnect me before I even load in, instead of making my own public steel path survival fissure that I won't lag out of.

I see. I guess we can scrap that part about choosing to always host.

However, I still think that being able to opt out of hosting would be nice.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

11 hours ago, Howdoipickaname said:

Thoughts or counter points?

you're angry about it, which is understandable, and I can empathize, but console players never hosting is a preposterous notion.

for one, 99% of the poor connections I come across are actually PC or Xbox users. I'm on PS5 and have hosted many games with zero issues on my end: my ping isn't the lowest in the world but in all the times I've played with friends over the years and hosted, 9 times out of 10 any disconnects were on their end. hell, they would often insist that I host instead of them, because I guess I'm "Mr reliable" lol.

fact is, crossplay forces both the strong and the weak in terms of hardware and connection speeds to compete directly with each other, and the weaker sides are always gonna lose. it's also worth remembering that public matchmaking can land you with ANYONE, from a millionaire with a perfect setup and a dream "rig" to someone in the most rural areas of your country who's also running a potato, and anything else in between. 

 

 

[JohnMorte]

So I guess the very concept of dedicated servers is just completely alien? That would solve many issues people have.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

3 hours ago, Genitive said:

I see. I guess we can scrap that part about choosing to always host.

However, I still think that being able to opt out of hosting would be nice.

Yes that would be nice for people who want to join a pub lobby, but it still doesn't fix op's problem if people don't opt into that, and believe me, there's no chance that >95% of slower console players (or just anyone with bad ping) will opt into that so op will still be upset when he does come into contact with a person like that again.

Edited November 17, 2023 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

ps5 runs better then the majority of pc players and i play wired (u get the same spawn rate as pc)

warframe was never optimized on ps4 and grouping all of the consoles as the same is pure ignorance

[(XBOX)K1jker]

vor 59 Minuten schrieb JohnMorte:

So I guess the very concept of dedicated servers is just completely alien? That would solve many issues people have.

We don't talk about that here since DE is an indie developer with less than 20 employees who can't donate hundreds of thousands to charity every year and can't run their own convention every year with more zeroes in costs.

They can't afford it.

[Genitive]

17 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Yes that would be nice for people who want to join a pub lobby, but it still doesn't fix op's problem if people don't opt into that, and believe me, there's no chance that >95% of slower console players (or just anyone with bad ping) will opt into that so op will still be upset when he does come into contact with a person like that again.

Yeah, I was just throwing some ideas around, but I don't think there is one simple solution to OP's problem. Or, at least, I don't know one, so I'll leave it at that.

[Aruquae]

Do you really think I want to be on switch?

Dude if I’m stuck with switch then you’re stuck with me 😈

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

26 minutes ago, Malikili said:

Do you really think I want to be on switch?

Dude if I’m stuck with switch then you’re stuck with me 😈

tell them how it is!

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

16 hours ago, o0Despair0o said:

I mean, being unable to upgrade is one thing, but holding back the entire community because of a minority? Yeah, no.

The point of my post was to point out the entire community is expressing both sides of the issue. It's more than a few players apparently, and DE is seeing enough of the player base with less optimized platforms, as well as internet connections, to warrant the need to keep trying to find a middle ground. My suggestion was to use player to player communication to help both sides find the best way to play together AND weed out the players not looking to play an endurance round.

@Mag_Gaming Am I seriously trying to educate you? I, honestly, don't care either way. If that is not a solution that is suitable for you, then don't use it. If it is, then use it. 

[Nekomian]

10 hours ago, JohnMorte said:

So I guess the very concept of dedicated servers is just completely alien? That would solve many issues people have.

It would solve many issues, but it also has its own implementation problems. I discussed them here a bit so I don't have to retype: 

The TL;DR being at scale it would require more additional cost, increased latency in some situations, and even downtime for maintenance that the current system does not deal with (granted it would not be much but still). The P2P one we have is not perfect, but I don't see a developer wanting to rework their entire network infrastructure and coding to see slightly marginal improvements in some areas, of which maybe the most noticeable would be no host migrations. I'd prefer they just optimize their existing structure to be more performant than take months to just rewrite the whole thing from scratch again, or use some combination approach in less optimal situations.