my (personal) issue with equinox.

[SDGDen]

honestly, i've always been kinda dissapointed with equinox, they have so much potential as a jack-of-all-trades style frame with a practical 6 abilities. 

however the issue for me is that their day form and their night form require different builds to be optimal. meaning you're basically stuck simply building for one and being left with three abilities.

 

so here's my proposed solution:

split their modding for day and night form in the same way sevagoth has separate modding for his shadow with one difference: a subsumed ability gets placed onto both forms. you can still have different subsumes by running config A on night form and config B on day form. 

this way, you can build for day form AND for night form without any issues. which can lead to more complex playstyles as well. 

[Slayer-.]

46 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

honestly, i've always been kinda dissapointed with equinox, they have so much potential as a jack-of-all-trades style frame with a practical 6 abilities. 

however the issue for me is that their day form and their night form require different builds to be optimal. meaning you're basically stuck simply building for one and being left with three abilities.

 

so here's my proposed solution:

split their modding for day and night form in the same way sevagoth has separate modding for his shadow with one difference: a subsumed ability gets placed onto both forms. you can still have different subsumes by running config A on night form and config B on day form. 

this way, you can build for day form AND for night form without any issues. which can lead to more complex playstyles as well. 

I like that idea, sort of like Sevagoth's Shadow, makes sense to mod for both sides.

[chaotea]

I always thought that the Day / night forms should have their own permanent buff when using 1, rather than a temporary buff. Because no one is pressing 1 just to get that buff. As you say, most people just pick day or night to start off with and dont change.

I think that the 1st ability need altering to be a 0 energy cost and faster transition animation, and the other abilities need tweaking so they have more synergy with the other forms version of that same ability.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

That would be pretty cool and interesting. Give them a bit of relative uniqueness.

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

keep her abilities active while swapping forms, so you arent punished for switching forms and put a energy drain cap on her 3.

those are a few  other things she needs imo, because atm her abilities punish you for switching forms.

Edited November 29, 2023 by (NSW)Royal_Elf_Mika

[(PSN)robotwars7]

3 hours ago, SDGDen said:

split their modding for day and night form in the same way sevagoth has separate modding for his shadow with one difference: a subsumed ability gets placed onto both forms. you can still have different subsumes by running config A on night form and config B on day form. 

this would be nice, and I'd like to think it'd be something Pablo could add if/when he gets around to an Equinox rework. a few other ideas:

 - allow Metamorphosis to change instantly and cost no energy, it could even work like Subsume Quiver as a "wheel" ability that allows for seamless, instant transitioning between forms. perhaps there could also be an option for her "neutral" form, where you get a little bit of both abilities, but not the full amount of strength, range etc. this would be great because A: you can be more versatile and B: the fashion for Neutral Equinox is the best IMO.

- keep all her abilities active between both forms, reduce their strength while in the opposite form if it would be unbalanced, but you shouldn't be punished for switching, instead it should be encouraged.

- if Equinox takes lethal damage in one form, she switches to the other and regains half her health, obviously this comes with a cooldown, but it would eliminate any survivability issues even if Mend isn't being used. if she is in neutral form, it puts her into either day/night form.

- Peaceful Provocation should be part of the base ability.

Equinox should feel a lot more like two frames in one, rather than just the one clunky frame she is now, and should reward players who are willing to put up with a more complex playstyle. unfortunately, that complexity also works against Equinox, as we're basically asking for double the effort to be put in to rework her fully, so I doubt Pablo is in any rush to look at her kit, especially when there are arguably worse frames that need a rework more and have just the one kit. 

[Aruquae]

A build I use as a sort of “all rounder” is this one 

Be warned it is a bit forma heavy, but rewarding

Energy transfer is so I can swap on the fly, I use either resonator or pillage in place of her two, I would switch arcane blessing, but I use it to survive unlucky toxin. Rolling guard is used as my “get out of jail free card,” but I personally use adaptation. I also use two crimson shards for 200% strength, (armor strip helminth, and her night form) along with 2 amber for cast speed. Equilibrium makes it so I will never run out of energy, and the pet mods just make it overkill on energy economy. The last slot is for blue for armor, just so I can reach the 50% damage reduction goal. 
I agree though, her abilities do seem to be anti synergetic, and the solutions are so simple. It’s a matter of DE taking a glance at her. 

[-Krism-]

Pablo said some Devstreams ago that one of his idea for a new frame was one that had three forms out at all time, so like Wukong & Wuclone but permanent

& I always thought that could've been a good start to rework Equinox as she's pretty much already on her way there, but then, that could make her too similar too how Wukong works

[Rathalio]

4 hours ago, SDGDen said:

the issue for me is that their day form and their night form require different builds to be optimal

Although I do understand your request and think if that was possible that it could be great. I don't see how much different builds are for both forms you primarily need range and then duration that's it, and then with the slots left you can crank up strength. 1st ability works the same both forms (i.e. need duration mainly)/ second ability works the same as well both forms (i.e. need range and duration)/ 3rd ability needs both range and some strength/ 4th ability mainly range and a bit of duration to reduce the drain, the only difference would be maybe strength is a better investment for mend rather than for maim but even then they kind of still work the same.

However realistically splitting the modding in two sounds highly problematic and implies quite a bit of rework. Just think about the augment mods. Which form would be "dominant" like with Sevagoth and have to carry the augments? Can you allow to have the augment only on one form and not the other? Does DE need to split up the augment mods in half? I think you have a lot of problematics to solve for a little gain. So, I'm not sure at the end if your request makes much sense with all that.

[Hexerin]

Her passive was not updated along with other similar effects (like Equilibrium). For example, you cannot pick up a health orb while at full health, even if you're completely empty on energy. I'm fairly certain this was just an oversight.

You cannot choose Night or Day form as your resting form (as in, the form you take while not in a mission), you're forced into the mixed/neutral form.

Energy Channel augment needs to be made baseline functionality. There is no legitimate counter argument to this, objectively speaking.

Those are my primary quibbles with her. The first is an easy fix if DE bothered to care, while the other two will simply never happen because DE's pride won't allow it.

[Chewarette]

2 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

this would be nice, and I'd like to think it'd be something Pablo could add if/when he gets around to an Equinox rework. a few other ideas:

 - allow Metamorphosis to change instantly and cost no energy, it could even work like Subsume Quiver as a "wheel" ability that allows for seamless, instant transitioning between forms. perhaps there could also be an option for her "neutral" form, where you get a little bit of both abilities, but not the full amount of strength, range etc. this would be great because A: you can be more versatile and B: the fashion for Neutral Equinox is the best IMO.

- keep all her abilities active between both forms, reduce their strength while in the opposite form if it would be unbalanced, but you shouldn't be punished for switching, instead it should be encouraged.

- if Equinox takes lethal damage in one form, she switches to the other and regains half her health, obviously this comes with a cooldown, but it would eliminate any survivability issues even if Mend isn't being used. if she is in neutral form, it puts her into either day/night form.

- Peaceful Provocation should be part of the base ability.

Equinox should feel a lot more like two frames in one, rather than just the one clunky frame she is now, and should reward players who are willing to put up with a more complex playstyle. unfortunately, that complexity also works against Equinox, as we're basically asking for double the effort to be put in to rework her fully, so I doubt Pablo is in any rush to look at her kit, especially when there are arguably worse frames that need a rework more and have just the one kit. 

I like your ideas, they sound pretty neat.

Something that could alleviate a bit the hassle of a rework, would be to have Equinox's 4 be a sort of ultimate, accessible through both forms, and which would make her fuse Night & Day forms into the Neutral one. It would require a limitation, either a cooldown or a conditional criteria as for Sevagoth or Baruuk (inflicting slash damage as Daykinox would charge the gauge, putting enemies to sleep as Nightinox would charge it as well, and it wouldn't be reset upon switching forms).

The ultimate could mix both forms 4 effects : the Slash-in-a-radius + healing aura, maybe with a 200% boost on either of them depending on which form has activated the 4. Of course, this can only work assuming a rework of the 4 anyway as the Night's one is barely functional/useful as of today.

That way, Equinox would no longer have  7 abilities but 6 (2 uniques per form + metamorphosis + ultimate), and we'd finally get access to Neutral Equinox in missions

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

In a way it'd make sense to be able to mod both of her facets separately, after all, you need to build two frames to get one. For the normal one that is.
So, to sum to the buffs train - as I was build testing Equinox lately and what I was left with was a big frowny face:

• Divide her in two separate moddable forms.
• Add Metamorphosis armour & shield buffs to their respective forms but keep the other bonuses but without the linear decay.
• Give a drain cap to her 3+4 for the love of god.
• Maybe change Mend so excess (over)shields (on decast) become Overguard with the usual 15k cap affected by strength.
• Maybe change Maim so it actually inflicts bleed procs so all her stored damage isn't wasted unless you armour strip.

But there's two things that worry me a bit... augments & shards.
Currently Sevagoth's Shadow has shady, to say the least, interactions with Shadow Haze, as it does not benefit from its effects despite it being active.
Allies DO get the critical & damage bonus, and enemies that die still trigger the extra shadows, but the Shadow doesn't gain those despite also triggering the shadow-lets.
Likewise, shards only affect Sevagoth but not Shadow.

And if Equinox were to follow a similar path, which would be good, I'd look onto that spaghetti code first, just in case, but the simpler & most straightforward solution is so both forms can equip them, but they work like they do now, as in, if I put Rest and Rage in Night Form, I get the effects of the augment on it, but if it is not on Day form, I don't.
Although... there's Energy Transfer. But oh boi, that looks like a coding trip I'm glad I don't have to take.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

7 hours ago, SDGDen said:

honestly, i've always been kinda dissapointed with equinox, they have so much potential as a jack-of-all-trades style frame with a practical 6 abilities. 

however the issue for me is that their day form and their night form require different builds to be optimal. meaning you're basically stuck simply building for one and being left with three abilities.

 

so here's my proposed solution:

split their modding for day and night form in the same way sevagoth has separate modding for his shadow with one difference: a subsumed ability gets placed onto both forms. you can still have different subsumes by running config A on night form and config B on day form. 

this way, you can build for day form AND for night form without any issues. which can lead to more complex playstyles as well. 

Also give them different color Palettes and skins so I can customize them differently. I love using the Divisa skin with prime accessories but using white and pink with cat ears on day form looks goofy.

[(PSN)Unstar]

Equinox has an odd design.  On one hand, her 1st ability gives you temporary buffs for switching forms, which implies a gameplay style where the player is regularly switching forms.  On the other hand, her 3rd and 4th abilities require accumulation to work at their full potential, and this accumulation is lost when the ability turns off or her form changes; these abilities imply a gameplay style where the player is staying within only one of her forms for lengthy periods of time.  Which is to say, at a base level, Equinox's kit is in conflict with itself.

In my subjective opinion, I honestly don't see the point of having a Warframe that changes forms if players are discouraged instead of encouraged to change forms during gameplay; a form-changing Warframe that players only use a single form of in any given mission may as well not have the other form — just make that a different Warframe!  So in my opinion, I think the first ability has the right idea, and Equinox's 3 and 4 should be adjusted such that they naturally (ie without augments) flow well with a playstyle that involves regular form shifts.