Founders gear should not be locked to PC with Cross-save

[Stormandreas]

Hello Tenno and DE

As crosssave is coming, we have been given the FAQ, with some... questionable decisions.

The one I want to highlight here is, Excalibur Prime, Lato Prime and Skana Prime are being locked to PC use only. This means, any founder who owns any of these items, will NOT be able to use them if they logged into a console.
Why?
This feels like a very arbitrary decision, and is quite literally locking founders out of INGAME GEAR.
Cosmetics? Sure, fine whatever, you can lock that out and not affect gameplay. This is, very literally, locking out gameplay items, which is a MASSIVE no no in mine, and likely many others books.

If this is to "respect console players who didn't get founders gear", DE are directly disrespecting founders by doing so. There is no harm in allowing Founders to use their gear on other platforms should they so wish.

No, this does not mean they'd have to make Excal Prime, Lato Prime and Skana Prime purchasable again.

Not only that, by locking gameplay items to certain platforms, DE are then not doing a true cross-save/progression. This is further emphasised by the handling of Tennogen.
A true Cross-save/progression means everything is accessible on, usable on and carries over to, all platforms. DE are not doing this.
To use Tennogen on all platforms, you must buy it twice (hugely disrespectful to players). To use Founders items, you must play PC. Because of these two things, DE cannot call this true Cross-save/progression.

While yes, the founder restrictions don't affect a large amount of players nowadays, this still affects players, and is still extremely arbitrary and unnecessary.

 

DE need to give a full explaination to this one.
Disrespecting founders, the players who lifted Warframe off the ground and saved DE from bankrupcy, is not a good look.
 

Spoiler

 

[(PSN)ApoX95]

yeah I was wondering about this as well. especially because I remember that back then, tenno had the possibility to one-time 'copy' their account to consoles when the console edition was new in a specific time-window. I was assuming that, if a founder 'one-time-copied' their account to PS4 for example then they also should have Excal and co?

wouldn't that mean that they could play excal prime all these years on console and then are now arbitrarily locked out of this content in the near future? I also don't get it

[(PSN)SeekerLoki]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)ApoX95 said:

yeah I was wondering about this as well. especially because I remember that back then, tenno had the possibility to one-time 'copy' their account to consoles when the console edition was new in a specific time-window. I was assuming that, if a founder 'one-time-copied' their account to PS4 for example then they also should have Excal and co?

wouldn't that mean that they could play excal prime all these years on console and then are now arbitrarily locked out of this content in the near future? I also don't get it

Founders gear was not transferred to console.  It was part of a list of excluded items.  Any item that wasn't available on console at the time was left behind.  You'll see items that eventually made it to console on the list as well.

 

https://support.warframe.com/hc/en-us/articles/200439684-PC-to-PS4-Account-Migration-CLOSED-

[(PSN)ApoX95]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb (PSN)SeekerLoki:

Founders gear was not transferred to console.  It was part of a list of excluded items.  Any item that wasn't available on console at the time was left behind.  You'll see items that eventually made it to console on the list as well.

oh wow, I'm no founder but I feel like that is where the unfairness began

[NightmareT12]

3 hours ago, (PSN)ApoX95 said:

oh wow, I'm no founder but I feel like that is where the unfairness began

It made sense at the time. But it's been like, what, 9 years? With crossplay existing I find it silly honestly, but eh.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

As a non-founder, I agree. I see no reason (unless there's some sort of major technical reason, which I find unlikely) for founders to not be able to have their founder gear on any of the systems they use.

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, (PSN)SeekerLoki said:

Founders gear was not transferred to console.  It was part of a list of excluded items.  Any item that wasn't available on console at the time was left behind.  You'll see items that eventually made it to console on the list as well.

Do you recall anything about the reasoning then? 

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

While I agree with the sentiment.  I want to counterpoint there is some consistency on their part in not allowing those items on console. 

So I would like a greater breakdown on what isn't going to transfer, why it won't, and how one prepares their account for the most easy path to merging. 

[Stormandreas]

15 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Do you recall anything about the reasoning then? 

At the time, it was because Console players couldn't buy the founders pack. That's the only reason iirc that Founders who did copy their account over to their console, didn't get to keep their founders items (something that wasn't taken very well either)

13 minutes ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

While I agree with the sentiment.  I want to counterpoint there is some consistency on their part in not allowing those items on console. 

So I would like a greater breakdown on what isn't going to transfer, why it won't, and how one prepares their account for the most easy path to merging. 

Consistency in the form of a decision made 10 years ago that should not be influencing the decisions of today. Time has moved on, it's been 10 years. There isn't a reason to disallow this anymore.

As far as we know, everything will merge, except for any tennogen bought after Nov 24th, and Founders stuff. We get 0 prep, and the players have actually recieved the short end of the stick here.
Any new tennogen (say, if you bought it right now) you DON'T get to keep across platforms, and any DON'T get to use their gear across platforms. That's it. Cosmetics are just cosmetics. It becomes a problem when actual gameplay items start to be restricted.

[Tiltskillet]

55 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

At the time, it was because Console players couldn't buy the founders pack. That's the only reason iirc that Founders who did copy their account over to their console, didn't get to keep their founders items (something that wasn't taken very well either)

I'm still not following the reasoning.  Is it because people who'd started on Console would have felt bad?  Hopefully there's something more to it I'm not grasping, because otherwise...lol.

Anyway, it seems to me like Founders should have their gear available regardless of crossplay platform, and anybody who transferred back then and lost their Founder gear should get it back.

[-BellaMuerte-]

I personally do not think that Founders should have their gear locked any longer with the upcoming save/link/merge system. They should be able to have their gear across all platforms of their choosing.

[Stormandreas]

15 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I'm still not following the reasoning.  Is it because people who'd started on Console would have felt bad?  Hopefully there's something more to it I'm not grasping, because otherwise...lol.

Anyway, it seems to me like Founders should have their gear available regardless of crossplay platform, and anybody who transferred back then and lost their Founder gear should get it back.

From memory, it was deemed "fair" to console players to dissallow Founders gear on consoles. There might be something I'm missing but that was the big sticking point.

Founders should absolutely be allowed to use their gear. Removing gameplay items, not just cosmetics, is a line you don't cross.

Apparently, Rebecca claimed it wasn't possible to put Excal Prime and that on Consoles cause he uses "old code". I don't know how true that claim is, but if it is true that is what was said, it's the absolute biggest copout answer I've ever heard.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Stormandreas

[Tiltskillet]

26 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

Apparently, Rebecca claimed it wasn't possible to put Excal Prime and that on Consoles cause he uses "old code".

If so, it'd be a better look if they treated correcting that problem as part of the overhead for making crossplay "Crossplay".

 

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

Indeed. If it's a coding issue trying to fix the code would be best.

I was assuming it was a legal issue of players having something that was never offered on consoles for sale. Which would make the compromise for tennogen purchased before the 24th a much bigger deal. 

[----Legacy----]

1 hour ago, Stormandreas said:

From memory, it was deemed "fair" to console players to dissallow Founders gear on consoles. There might be something I'm missing but that was the big sticking point.

Wasn't it something related to Sony and/or Microsoft refusing to let founder gear be playable in their platform just because its "never coming back" nature made them unable to sell it and profit from it?

1 hour ago, Stormandreas said:

Founders should absolutely be allowed to use their gear. Removing gameplay items, not just cosmetics, is a line you don't cross.

Imo, both, the founder gear and cosmetics side of cross save are being awfully handled since arbitrarily locking players away from content which has already been purchased just for not being bought in the platform they want to use it -and expecting them to buy it again- makes no sense.

I'm not affected by either since i have no plans of buying a console, but this seems like just an attempt to appeace Sony and Microsoft who may -once again- have gotten upset over letting players use content bought in another platform.

1 hour ago, Stormandreas said:

Apparently, Rebecca claimed it wasn't possible to put Excal Prime and that on Consoles cause he uses "old code". I don't know how true that claim is, but if it is true that is what was said, it's the absolute biggest copout answer I've ever heard.

That sounds like just an excuse, if that was true then they should look into a way to update the code instead.

After all: do consoles even get any kind of bug if a founder suddenly joins their lobby with either piece of founder gear? I'd bet they don't, at least i haven't seen any report on the matter despite how long crossplay has been enabled.

[Qriist]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Hikuro-93 said:

As a non-founder, I agree. I see no reason (unless there's some sort of major technical reason, which I find unlikely) for founders to not be able to have their founder gear on any of the systems they use.

This line of reasoning makes absolutely no sense. Unless players running Founders items are excluded from any cross-play games (which I admit I don't know), the assets and logic for Excalibur Prime/etc already exists on consoles. They would have to, or those consoles would not be able to (properly) run games where a person with Founder's gear is in the party.

(Though I suppose the server could just report Excalibur Prime as regular Excalibur to the console?)

[Voltage]

What I'm guessing is that all the exceptions and asterisks with cross-save are because of different platform rules, and DE has to assume the position of it being their decision for political reasons between Digital Extremes and those platform partners. They can't go pissing off Nintendo by telling everyone that they are the reason Nintendo Platinum is locked to the Switch, and the same goes for TennoGen with Steam and other platforms. That's probably the reason that consoles never got the opportunity to purchase TennoGen skins with real money. 

Maybe I am totally wrong here and it is completely within DE's power to allow Founders gear (among other things) to transfer. It could be because it would be awkward to launch the Android and iOS versions of the game and this brand new market of players various items that they can never have.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Voltage

[Sneyek]

It's totally within DE's power to allow founder gear, it's their item they made right after the end of the beta.

It really looks like it's an arbitrary decision, maybe because they did not  kept track of founder player who transferred their account to console and who lose their Founder gear. But those player were aware of it.

I've been waiting cross play for years and now that it release, I just feels like it's for everybody but founders.. After all those years playing the game, purchasing stuff and being active in the community, it really feels terrible being treated like that.

 

To be honest, if I had to choose between that ridiculous decision and releasing the founder pack again, I would chose second option..

[(XBOX)K1jker]

DE doesn't make the cross play/save/merge rules, platform owner does. 

Just look at switch players not being allowed to trade.

It's the price publishers pay for "making" their game cross anything, instead of launching it cross anything. 

[Stormandreas]

41 minutes ago, (XBOX)K1jker said:

DE doesn't make the cross play/save/merge rules, platform owner does. 

Just look at switch players not being allowed to trade.

It's the price publishers pay for "making" their game cross anything, instead of launching it cross anything. 

I 100% garuntee DE could have worked to resolved these problems. All other devs are capable of doing so, so why not DE?

I'd be MORE than happy if DE delayed Crossave even more, to ensure it is a true Cross-save/progression, and have everyone win, not the way they are doing it, where only the players/consumers lose out.

One of the biggest problems here is Transparency on the topic. All they've said is "we looked at other options and this is the best one". It's been noted to them multiple times there are better options, yet they've stuck to their guns. We've been given 0 reasoning as to why the options they've chosen are the best ones. This is part of the problem.
They have said they wanna protect their Tennogen creators, which they already are doing (albiet not in the best way possible) on the console versions, so why do they not just do that on PC? Is steam holding them back? are they contractually obliged? Even if they just say, "we're under NDA and we can't discuss that" would be something!

Edited November 30, 2023 by Stormandreas

[LuckyCharm]

Its a lil insane to lock specifically that gear to pc. And if it is a coding issue, wouldnt it be better to update it as a whole to the new code? We already have other versions of all those items, regular excal/umbra, skana/prisma, lato/prisma etc. why cant the upgraded code just be cloned over and reskin those items with the founders skins and stats. Makes no sense why they have to stay as old code when thatd mean itd be so much harder to update them later if needed with new stats/abilities 

[(PSN)RootVI]

I'm a founder on my pc account which is at this point antiquated, at the time I was running warframe on a literal toaster.

 

It genuinely hurts that we're being treated like this, what feels like more of a slap to the face is that we're being asked to guinea pig the system for them too? Why should we? We are literally risking our accounts for no added benefit that's been made aware to us.

 

To ask us to not only guinea pig their system, and make a point to single out our gear that we bought to support them as not included while making it seem like "oh we're letting you guys have a go first as a thanks" is the biggest pile of disrespect I've had from a game.

Seriously considering laying my account to rest after 10 years. This is a push too far honestly if they don't come out with an extremely good reason.

 

 

[Kercheww]

I have mixed feelings. I was looking forward to relaxing on my couch on the PS5 and use my favorite frame. If I can't use Excalibur Prime then there's no point and the reasons don't make sense as to why it's not possible. But there are also other frames, that's the whole point of the game so if I can't use one it shouldn't matter. 

[(PSN)shadowgod611]

Yep, I have a founders account on PC that I haven't touched since there were only 5 frames or so. I started playing the Playstation because I preferred to use a controller and now have over 1k hours on that account. I was so excited to be able to have Excal prime on my MAIN account. Am I understanding the post correctly if I take it to mean that if I were to merge the accounts, I could have PS account as my main profile but only play Excal prime when playing on PC? Or does it just vanish completely? It's so confusing and it doesn't make sense to me.

[Stormandreas]

1 hour ago, (PSN)shadowgod611 said:

Yep, I have a founders account on PC that I haven't touched since there were only 5 frames or so. I started playing the Playstation because I preferred to use a controller and now have over 1k hours on that account. I was so excited to be able to have Excal prime on my MAIN account. Am I understanding the post correctly if I take it to mean that if I were to merge the accounts, I could have PS account as my main profile but only play Excal prime when playing on PC? Or does it just vanish completely? It's so confusing and it doesn't make sense to me.

Unrelated, though I have to ask... why swap platform just to use a controller? PC has been able to use a controller the entire time due to Steam.

Anyway. When you merge your account (do NOT Link your accounts, there's 0 reason they offer this, as this literally deletes the accounts. Merging is what you do), you'll have 1 account, a Warframe account. It's not a PS or PC account, it's simply a Warframe account. You'll only be able to use your Excal when playing on PC.