Trinity, the next warframe rework? loki next Decoy Augment? And DE_Pablo saids

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

On 2023-12-09 at 9:54 AM, Hexerin said:

Speaking as an actual Trinity player, she needs a rework like Hydroid got. Keep the overall kit, but just update it to modern standards. Especially her durations, like holy f- those durations are garbage.

If nothing else changes about Trinity, I really hope they at least buff the durations as well.

It also doesn't help EV actually WANTS you to shirk Duration for some reason, making her entire kit worthless in order to become a Energy dispenser, which is just lame. Nova has a similar problem and I have no idea why they don't just make Speed and Slow something her 4 just does.

[Leqesai]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

If nothing else changes about Trinity, I really hope they at least buff the durations as well.

It also doesn't help EV actually WANTS you to shirk Duration for some reason, making her entire kit worthless in order to become a Energy dispenser, which is just lame. Nova has a similar problem and I have no idea why they don't just make Speed and Slow something her 4 just does.

I am all for build diversity but you are 100% right. Frames with ideal build strategies that cause contradictions in the efficiency of abilities should be streamlined.

Never ever bother with ev builds in this Era of warframe because there is never a situation where I would rather give up survivability in favor of energy.

And the nova issue... man don't get me started. Never liked the speedva/slowva limitations with build diversity. 

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

I'm a recovering Trinity main (LR2 with 56% Trinity), and honestly all she really needs is extra duration, and maybe the removal of her Link's tether limit. Some extra synergies within her kit would be nice, as well. As it stands, Citrine does pretty much everything that Trinity does better than Trinity, and certainly is more comfortable to play thanks to the longer durations. Only caveats would be lack of native armor strip and viability of max shield-gating, and missing out on some of Trin's funnier gimmicks/augments. That said, Trinity doesn't need a full rework. Just some buffs to bring her up to snuff.

Give me that and I'd happily play her more often again.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

15 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I am all for build diversity but you are 100% right. Frames with ideal build strategies that cause contradictions in the efficiency of abilities should be streamlined.

Never ever bother with ev builds in this Era of warframe because there is never a situation where I would rather give up survivability in favor of energy.

And the nova issue... man don't get me started. Never liked the speedva/slowva limitations with build diversity. 

Oh what, you don't like having Novas' 3 tied to Range when you can barely fit it since her 1 needs an absolutely absurd amount of Duration just for some DR? Well deal with it, you get tiny portal distances and you're going to like it.

I don't really mind that Nova requires that much Duration, but if that's going to be the case, everything for her kit should just be tied to Duration. If that isn't something doable, then make things like her 1 and 4 require less Duration so it isn't 90% of her build. I would think that would make more sense considering her 1 is even a Helminth ability, and it's not exactly easy to build for on most Warframes outside of the damage build for the Augment.

Anyways rant over, but yeah, I'll never understand why there are abilities that work like EV or Slowva/Speedva, that kind of tells me the abilities weren't given a proper QoL pass to make them stable and that they're just really old. If that means something like EV receiving a nerf by not changing the tick rate with less Duration, but gaining more ease of use by just being a faster flat tick rate at base that doesn't change and would then be better with more Duration, I would gladly take it. 

[Hexerin]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

If nothing else changes about Trinity, I really hope they at least buff the durations as well.

It also doesn't help EV actually WANTS you to shirk Duration for some reason, making her entire kit worthless in order to become a Energy dispenser, which is just lame. Nova has a similar problem and I have no idea why they don't just make Speed and Slow something her 4 just does.

Nova is fine, aside from the bug that makes Antimatter Drop scale with ability strength (which only matters to Speedova, Slowva actually likes that bug).

26 minutes ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

Oh what, you don't like having Novas' 3 tied to Range when you can barely fit it since her 1 needs an absolutely absurd amount of Duration just for some DR? Well deal with it, you get tiny portal distances and you're going to like it.

I don't really mind that Nova requires that much Duration, but if that's going to be the case, everything for her kit should just be tied to Duration. If that isn't something doable, then make things like her 1 and 4 require less Duration so it isn't 90% of her build. I would think that would make more sense considering her 1 is even a Helminth ability, and it's not exactly easy to build for on most Warframes outside of the damage build for the Augment.

Anyways rant over, but yeah, I'll never understand why there are abilities that work like EV or Slowva/Speedva, that kind of tells me the abilities weren't given a proper QoL pass to make them stable and that they're just really old. If that means something like EV receiving a nerf by not changing the tick rate with less Duration, but gaining more ease of use by just being a faster flat tick rate at base that doesn't change and would then be better with more Duration, I would gladly take it. 

Everything in her kit that actually matters is tied to duration, though. The few parts that aren't, are designed in such a way that it doesn't matter that you need that much duration, because the base values are absurdly high and fixed. Her kit is actually one of the best designed kits in the game, the only issue is Wormhole is outdated (but makes for an easy choice for Helminth slot).

Literally the only thing that would make Nova better, is if Molecular Prime was changed to a tap/hold. Tap for slow, hold for speed. That way, you don't need two separate builds for her. However, that also means you're stripping build diversity out of her, when she's one of the few frames left in the game that actually has any at all. Most frames only have one real build, sadly.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Hexerin

[Sojufueled]

On 2023-12-09 at 11:39 AM, Leqesai said:

Trinity rework?

lolwat...

Yeah, she just needs an un-nerfing for QOL. Durations are too short.

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

4 hours ago, Leqesai said:

I am all for build diversity but you are 100% right. Frames with ideal build strategies that cause contradictions in the efficiency of abilities should be streamlined.

Never ever bother with ev builds in this Era of warframe because there is never a situation where I would rather give up survivability in favor of energy.

And the nova issue... man don't get me started. Never liked the speedva/slowva limitations with build diversity. 

The thing is EV can AOE OHKO with MFD and viral. The damage scales off of HP. So it can be very powerful and fun turning her into a damage dealing caster. It’s just janky af

Edited December 13, 2023 by (PSN)FirmBizkit

[Leqesai]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)FirmBizkit said:

The thing is EV can AOE OHKO with MFD and viral. The damage scales off of HP. So it can be very powerful and fun turning her into a damage dealing caster. It’s just janky af

Of course there is a reason one might make a build around the thing.. but that's not really my point. Kind of goes without saying that builds exist. The point I am making is it is foolish to design a frame such that one build invalidates another. It is shoddy design.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

4 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Nova is fine, aside from the bug that makes Antimatter Drop scale with ability strength (which only matters to Speedova, Slowva actually likes that bug).

Everything in her kit that actually matters is tied to duration, though. The few parts that aren't, are designed in such a way that it doesn't matter that you need that much duration, because the base values are absurdly high and fixed. Her kit is actually one of the best designed kits in the game, the only issue is Wormhole is outdated (but makes for an easy choice for Helminth slot).

Literally the only thing that would make Nova better, is if Molecular Prime was changed to a tap/hold. Tap for slow, hold for speed. That way, you don't need two separate builds for her. However, that also means you're stripping build diversity out of her, when she's one of the few frames left in the game that actually has any at all. Most frames only have one real build, sadly.

I'm well aware, that's why I only really mentioned Wormhole when it came to Range affecting it. Technically her 4 has the explosion radius, but just like you pointed out, you can keep those aspects to a fixed rate and they would be perfectly fine. I just don't see the point of having anything in her kit affected by Range when it's such a minor thing for her that under normal circumstances isn't what you'd ever want to build for, even in Speedvas case.

I mostly suggested the lower Duration requirement for her 1 to make it easier to build for when you use it as a Helminth ability, since lowering it won't really affect Nova at all since she actually wants Duration as much as possible for her 4 regardless. 

It definitely is a form of build diversity, but I wouldn't really say it's a good form of it. Completely neutering most of your kit just for a small effect you could probably relegate to the base ability doesn't make much sense to me. I understand wanting to just keep it by sheer principle, but it's not literally a separate skill tree, it's just a speed boost to help deal with annoying enemy spawns in stuff like Defense.

I mean, I understand Portal doesn't really matter, but I like using it from time to time. I would like it to actually be a useful movement ability outside of an incredibly specific build that ruins everything else I like about Nova.

Edited December 13, 2023 by (XBOX)Graysmog

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2023-12-08 at 10:04 PM, trst said:

If a rework was planned then there'd be an announcement/workshop post about it like they do with all other reworks. No reason for them to make such a thing a secret.

Also news of a Decoy augment is genuinely depressing. Loki absolutely needs to be on a list of planned update/reworks alongside Trinity. And if they're bothering to make another augment for it then odds are a rework isn't planned any time soon.

I dont see what they could possibly do with the augment to make it even worth the mod slot, considering how bad the ability is. 

Its depressing to me just because it tells me they wanna pretend the ability has a reason to exist at all at this point when it doesnt.

[Tiltskillet]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I dont see what they could possibly do with the augment to make it even worth the mod slot, considering how bad the ability is. 

Oh my, I can imagine possibilities, and I'm mildly excited to see what it is. But it's still sad to think they've tried to address Decoy with yet another augment even if it's really good.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Oh my, I can imagine possibilities, and I'm mildly excited to see what it is. But it's still sad to think they've tried to address Decoy with yet another augment even if it's really good.

New Augment: Why Isn't This Baseline

- Decoy now has its HP scale with enemy damage during its initial cast.

Jokes aside, there's still a lot they can do with an Augment. Making it blind on death, having it move around like Octavia's Resonator, making it a clone ability that recasts Loki's abilities, have it replicate your current weapon and become a flimsy turret, you can do a lot in retrospect.

I just ... really don't get why Pablo wants to give him an Augment at all. I would rather someone else get an Augment, outside of a Passive Augment he's fully stacked with one in each category.

[Tiltskillet]

6 hours ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

I just ... really don't get why Pablo wants to give him an Augment at all. I would rather someone else get an Augment, outside of a Passive Augment he's fully stacked with one in each category.

He's got two for Decoy already. 

[Xzorn]

Antimatter Drop for Nova is more useless than Decoy and Switch Teleport.
It's damage cap is on par with most guns these days and you can't affect the radius either.

I know people like her portal but she's fast at base value. I mostly troll with it.

Problem with any "HP increased by damage taken during period" for Decoy is that it doesn't generally get hit for a good 5-10 seconds.
It also doesn't have enough threat to overpower Radiation status from Disarm. They need to revert some of the nerfs from years ago like Molt.

[SteveCutler]

19 hours ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

It also doesn't help EV actually WANTS you to shirk Duration for some reason, making her entire kit worthless in order to become a Energy dispenser, which is just lame.

What are you talking about? You haven't needed to that for literally years. Just cast EV and then kill the enemy to release the energy. Works just fine. Low duration builds are just stupid on Trinity.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

4 hours ago, SteveCutler said:

What are you talking about? You haven't needed to that for literally years. Just cast EV and then kill the enemy to release the energy. Works just fine. Low duration builds are just stupid on Trinity.

I'm referring to EV passively giving you Energy. It gives you far more if you run less Duration and deals much higher damage than it does with a Duration build. EV Trin is dumb and I'm pointing out why it is.

I'm well aware that EV gives you less Energy on enemy death and that's not what I'm talking about.

[SteveCutler]

46 minutes ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

I'm referring to EV passively giving you Energy. It gives you far more if you run less Duration and deals much higher damage than it does with a Duration build. EV Trin is dumb and I'm pointing out why it is.

I'm well aware that EV gives you less Energy on enemy death and that's not what I'm talking about.

Sure, but it's still plenty of energy with a duration build. Even more if you're using Nourish.

While yes, it technically works slightly better with low duration, there is no good reason to run that build. You aren't forced to use low duration. Nothing necessitates using low duration to make EV work. Trinity is an energy dispenser for the team regardless of how much duration she has.

[Xzorn]

I gave my Trinity Roar so she's got the whole kit a group would want minus CC.
224% Power, 300% Duration, 104% Range, 45% Efficiency.

I need to test if the Helmith version double dips DoTs still in this Slash/Heat stacking meta.