Is it time to change Archon mods to trigger from weapon damage/kills?

[PublikDomain]

On 2023-12-26 at 7:51 AM, Hexerin said:

Exalted weapons are weapons, not abilities. They don't trigger the effects of the archon mods.

Ironically, Exalted Weapons (which are half-weapon, half-ability) will trigger these ability effects. Exalted Blade, Regulators, Talons, etc. Even Venari (who is a half-companion, half-passive... "ability"?), will trigger these effects when given mods like Shock Collar. Last I checked even Hounds (which are just companions) will trigger these effects by using their Precepts, which I guess are abilities? But other companions like Sentinels won't trigger these effects when using their Precepts. And Pseudo-Exalted Abilities (which are explicitly abilities and nothing else) won't trigger these effects, but on release half of them did, and DE actively patched this out, but only for Atlas. Slash Dash will still trigger Archon Stretch if it's modded for Electricity. Landslide, Whipclaw, and Shattered Lash won't, even though they're mechanically identical to Slash Dash. 🤡

More to the point of the thread, if Archon mods main stat addition wasn't equal to the Primed variant then I think allowing them to proc on all sources of damage would be fine. But since they're equal to the Primed variant then they'd become a default pick for everyone and then there'd no reason to use the Primed version. You'd just trade one "when would you ever use this" for another:

Quote

Look, nobody is using these:

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by PublikDomain

[Traumtulpe]

17 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

But since they're equal to the Primed variant then they'd become a default pick for everyone and then there'd no reason to use the Primed version. You'd just trade one "when would you ever use this" for another

Well Archon mods have a higher capacity drain, so if one of them has to be better, sure it should be the more expensive one?

[Agall]

6 minutes ago, Qriist said:

1 tauforged yellow on +45% max energy on spawn, 1 tauforged yellow on casting speed, 1 orange on blast damage->shields, and 2 free slots that I haven't settled on yet.

2x +2 corrosive emerald shards? Because why not.

[Agall]

36 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And Pseudo-Exalted Abilities (which are explicitly abilities and nothing else) won't trigger these effects, but on release half of them did, and DE actively patched this out, but only for Atlas. Slash Dash will still trigger Archon Stretch if it's modded for Electricity. Landslide, Whipclaw, and Shattered Lash won't, even though they're mechanically identical to Slash Dash. 🤡

Slash Dash can also proc [Archon Continuity] can confirm, you do specifically need an incarnon with +SC% Evo IV and toxin innate or modded on your melee weapon though. Same goes for [Archon Stretch] and I imagine it works on the others as well. Slash Dash otherwise has 0% SC, which if you have +SC% Evo IV and no elemental, it will proc more than once slash status effect.

1 minute ago, Qriist said:

Definitely occured to me, but waiting a couple more hotfixes to see how the shards change before I do much more shard fusion. The blast shard was more curiosity to see if it worked with companion damage (it does).

I run 4 Tau shield blast shards on my Excalibur build right now. I've played around with combinational shards a lot, including tau emerald.

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

32 minutes ago, Qriist said:

1 tauforged yellow on +45% max energy on spawn, 1 tauforged yellow on casting speed, 1 orange on blast damage->shields, and 2 free slots that I haven't settled on yet.

Now that's an interesting build! Have you found Archon Flow to be worth slotting? In general her energy generation is so insane with Equilibrium that she doesn't need the (in need of tweaks) AFlow buff, and I get by on a Tau Blue for +75 energy max. It does mean energy can get tight sometimes, but her long durations kinda eliminate that problem. Equilibrium is a must slot for me because it gives her so much extra energy you can spam her 1 nonstop for constant priming and Companion Clone generation.

AVitality I outsourced to Blessing rather than doubling up, but she definitely benefits from having it. Might have to find a way to get that into my build! 

Have you tried her with Health Conversion? She can really benefit from the armor bonus, I've found, and with all the Health you've got from AVitality and Blessing you'd get a ton of EHP out of it.

Are the Augers for shield gating? If you grab a couple of green shards for armor strip as suggested above, you can ditch Corrosive Projection for Brief Respite and pump that up a bit more, or drop the Augurs for some other mods. I run Overextended for a massive radius on her 3 since my teammates rarely stay still, and I think I've got an Umbral Intensify in there somewhere as well.

The topaz blast shield is clever, I've been running that on a Mesa with Toxin/Blast for total invincibility during Peacemaker, but it does feel limiting in terms of build. Definitely seconding the green shards on her, giving her a native armor strip pumps up her 3s damage to even more insane levels.

Tldr: I really dig your build and I'm happy to compare notes anytime!

Edit: Also acts as a perfect showcase for how Archon Mods can be straight upgrades to their Primed counterparts, as well as a good use-case example for them.

Edit 2: I just realized you used her 1 for the helminth slot instead of her 4 or 2! How do you get around the energy generation problems with minimum efficiency, then? Natural orb drops + Nourish?

Edited December 27, 2023 by Armadillidium_vulgare

[PublikDomain]

55 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Well Archon mods have a higher capacity drain, so if one of them has to be better, sure it should be the more expensive one?

But at worst it's only 1 more point of drain, and frames tend to have a ton of spare modding capacity. I can't think of any frames where mod capacity actually matters. (Edit: for example, look at Qriist's build which uses 4 of the more expensive Archon mods and still has 5 spare mod capacity and 3 more slots that can be Forma'd for even more.) Spending just 1 extra mod point to double your Heat procs? That's pretty cheap.

35 minutes ago, Agall said:

Slash Dash can also proc [Archon Continuity] can confirm, you do specifically need an incarnon with +SC% Evo IV and toxin innate or modded on your melee weapon though. Same goes for [Archon Stretch] and I imagine it works on the others as well. Slash Dash otherwise has 0% SC, which if you have +SC% Evo IV and no elemental, it will proc more than once slash status effect.

For extra irony, having 0% Status Chance was the justification that was given for why Shattered Lash shouldn't be expected to proc these effects :)

Quote

Gara's Shattered Lash has a 0% status chance, I'm not sure why you would expect any of the 3 "on status applied" mods to work with this?   Status chance +60%, +90%, +10000% is always multiplied relative to the base value which is zero

When corrected about how Shattered Lash can in fact proc status effects, and how status effects weren't even necessary for effects like Archon Stretch, there was no further reply and instead Landslide was """fixed""" to not proc the effects.

Edited December 27, 2023 by PublikDomain

[Agall]

50 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

But at worst it's only 1 more point of drain, and frames tend to have a ton of spare modding capacity. I can't think of any frames where mod capacity actually matters. (Edit: for example, look at Qriist's build which uses 4 of the more expensive Archon mods and still has 5 spare mod capacity and 3 more slots that can be Forma'd for even more.) Spending just 1 extra mod point to double your Heat procs? That's pretty cheap.

For extra irony, having 0% Status Chance was the justification that was given for why Shattered Lash shouldn't be expected to proc these effects :)

When corrected about how Shattered Lash can in fact proc status effects, and how status effects weren't even necessary for effects like Archon Stretch, there was no further reply and instead Landslide was """fixed""" to not proc the effects.

I'm just a sweaty Excalibur main, didn't even know Shattered Lash was an ability till you mentioned it 😄 I know almost nothing about most Warframes outside of whether their subsume is useful or not. Circuit is where I sometimes learn what a Warframe does if I dont elect to just play Unairu operator instead.

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

18 minutes ago, Qriist said:

Thank you! <3

Calling it as I see it! It's really cool to see how people build frames differently, and how build philosophies vary.

 

19 minutes ago, Qriist said:

It's mostly there for the energy pool but since she does cold damage it makes sense to slot Archon Flow over Primed Flow.

Yeah, that tracks. It'd be nice if the activation conditions were easier, but it's a nice bonus to have. Her base energy feels really low, and since you're dropping her 1 using Flow for a larger energy stockpile makes a lot of sense.

 

23 minutes ago, Qriist said:

I haven't run her with Equilibrium, but I can see how you'd get more use out of that mod with her first ability.

Try it on one of your free configs! I promise, it's genuinely incredible since the pickup changes, and since she generates so many health/energy orbs you'll (mostly) never run into natural dry spell issues. It was because of the 1 + Equilibrium synergy I ended up dropping Flow for that Tau Blue shard, since she's always topped up pretty much, especially with Nourish active.

 

26 minutes ago, Qriist said:

I actually haven't toyed with that mod at all, lol. I should!

It might not make as much sense to run it with her if you're dropping her 1, since it synergizes best when there are dozens and dozens of health orbs littered on the ground, but the 85% DR from armor with her natural 90% is incredibly strong, especially with max Blessing and passive healing stacks. I need to do the math!

Speaking of, do you have any issues stacking Blessing and her passive since you're not running her 1? Or do you find Synth Deconstruct generates enough to do what you need?

 

33 minutes ago, Qriist said:

I don't often build to exploit shieldgating. I think Dagath was the first frame where I did so intentionally (due to her aura polarity matching Brief Respite). Here on Citrine, the augur mods are mostly there for their +range and +duration, but I cast abilities often enough that I probably unintentionally shieldgate sometimes.

Ah, okay! I'm not a huge shield gater either, but it can be nice to have when you're already spamming an ability. I use Augmented to offset the strength loss on Overextended for 235 range, and I think I just run AContinuity with a Tau Red for Duration, since 170 brings Nourish, her 2 and 3 up to about 40-50 seconds each, leaving her 1 for priming and gate spam. I assume you're spamming her 4 for the most part?

 

47 minutes ago, Qriist said:

That sounds like it'll scale crazy good in the Circuit lol

It's nuts, honestly. It does cost on direct damage, but with AContinuity and a pair of green shards it still gets full strip for anything that isn't killed outright. With Nourish for viral and energy gen it eats pretty much anything. Only "struggle" can be Acolytes and mobs that have status caps, but it still chews through them pretty fast.

 

50 minutes ago, Qriist said:

Yeah pretty much. Before any Molt Augmented stacks, Nourish starts out turning every orb in 74 energy.

That said, don't forget about Archon Stretch! Nourish + Prismatic Gem basically gives Citrine a 6/s regen rate. I'm never out of energy, especially since the regen refreshes any time an ability-inflicted electric

Yeah, if I ever run low on energy I just wait for AStretch to bring me up to 38 energy, it's really handy. One tap of her 1 and a couple of dead enemies later, I'm back to full again, and a couple of blessing/passive stacks richer to boot.

AStretch feels underrated, I don't see it in use as often as I would expect it to be since the activation conditions are so easy to outsource if they aren't native to the frame you're using.

 

39 minutes ago, Qriist said:

I chose to subsume over her 1 because I valued the hard crowd control aspect of her 4. Pretty much the sole deciding factor lol.

That makes sense! For me, I found that even running two Tau Ambers her 4 felt too slow with a bit too low duration, and the best Crowd control is dead. I use her 1 to mass prime with her 3, since they synergize really well, and dropped her 4 for Nourish. Her 3 works surprisingly well for some light CC, thanks to the heat, cold, and electric, but it doesn't shut things down nearly as hard as her 4.

I feel like her 4 needs some extra duration above and beyond what it already has at base to be really useable with that casting speed, but it is a very strong ability.

[Hexerin]

5 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Ironically, Exalted Weapons (which are half-weapon, half-ability) will trigger these ability effects. Exalted Blade, Regulators, Talons, etc. Even Venari (who is a half-companion, half-passive... "ability"?), will trigger these effects when given mods like Shock Collar. Last I checked even Hounds (which are just companions) will trigger these effects by using their Precepts, which I guess are abilities? But other companions like Sentinels won't trigger these effects when using their Precepts. And Pseudo-Exalted Abilities (which are explicitly abilities and nothing else) won't trigger these effects, but on release half of them did, and DE actively patched this out, but only for Atlas. Slash Dash will still trigger Archon Stretch if it's modded for Electricity. Landslide, Whipclaw, and Shattered Lash won't, even though they're mechanically identical to Slash Dash. 🤡

More to the point of the thread, if Archon mods main stat addition wasn't equal to the Primed variant then I think allowing them to proc on all sources of damage would be fine. But since they're equal to the Primed variant then they'd become a default pick for everyone and then there'd no reason to use the Primed version. You'd just trade one "when would you ever use this" for another:

 

On 2023-12-26 at 4:49 PM, Hexerin said:

By the way, it's generally good etiquette to actually read a conversation in full before butting in. Helps to avoid making a fool of yourself by posting redundant and outdated talking points. Especially when that conversation only consists of three posts, all directly one after another.

Just requote myself I suppose.

[PublikDomain]

26 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Just requote myself I suppose.

Just adding some trivia to the conversation, bud.

[Hexerin]

6 hours ago, Qriist said:

1 tauforged yellow on +45% max energy on spawn, 1 tauforged yellow on casting speed, 1 orange on blast damage->shields, and 2 free slots that I haven't settled on yet.

Interesting choice to inject Nourish over Fractured Blast. I don't really see Citrine as a frame that needs a Helminth injection, but if I were to do so... I'd put it over Crystallize, as her other three abilities are too strong to inject over. I also wouldn't use Nourish, she doesn't need the extra damage and has infinite energy so the boosted energy gain is pointless. Being put over Crystallize, any injection would be forced to be a damage boosting one, however. Crystallize is absolutely insane for damage output, so it would need to be an equally insane damage boosting ability. Really only leaves Xata's Whisper, to be honest.

6 hours ago, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

What's your build there, fellow gem enjoyer? Nourish on Helminth, but what shards and mods do you have on her?

Spoiler

I don't have shards in her yet, as she's one of my lower played frames. She's too OP, makes things boring. Once I get around to slotting shards in, her Prime will probably be released, at which point my shard priorities would change anyways. I don't use umbral forma on standard frames, so I can't put the Umbrals on her yet. Once I have her Prime though, I plan to replace Augur Secrets with Umbral Intensify, and Natural Talent with either Umbral Fiber or Umbral Vitality (whichever gives her Prime more EHP). So shards would be 3x tauforge duration (brings her to 200% duration) and 2x casting speed (tauforge or not).

I might try 1x tauforge casting speed, and replace the other casting speed with something else, since most frames don't really need the full 50%+ casting speed boost Natural Talent or 2x casting shards gives (Mag is a good example of that, only needs a single tauforge casting shard). If I were to do so... I'd probably go with an armor shard to further stability incoming damage (plus bolster EHP). Maybe a parkour shard, since Citrine is a rather sluggish frame overall (would also synergize with Cunning Drift).

Actually, speaking of Umbral stuff and looking at my build... If I go in and forma both Natural Talent and Cunning Drift, I could replace Augur Secrets with Umbral Intensify currently. I might have to go do that, the extra 20% ability strength would be nice to have.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Hexerin

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

3 hours ago, Hexerin said:

I also wouldn't use Nourish, she doesn't need the extra damage and has infinite energy so the boosted energy gain is pointless. Being put over Crystallize, any injection would be forced to be a damage boosting one, however. Crystallize is absolutely insane for damage output, so it would need to be an equally insane damage boosting ability. Really only leaves Xata's Whisper, to be honest.

Nourish is a top tier ability for many reasons, but one of them is that it frees up at least two mod slots across your various weapons. Counting companions, that's potentially eight slots that are suddenly available for alternate builds and synergies, depending on how married you are to the viral meta. The energy gain can be called excessive, but it allows her 1 to be spammed at a prodigious rate, synergizing with her 3 for stupid levels of priming and armor strip with 2 green shards and AContinuity. That, and the radial viral procs improve her ability damage as is.

Dropping her 4 makes the most sense to me as well, since many of her most synergistic builds rely on health/energy orb generation, and the extra damage output isn't really necessary given how her 3 already boosts status and priming. Xata's Whisper has some interesting interactions, but void damage lacking bonuses hurts it, and you can get screwed over by the bubbles if you're trying to hit headshots/weakpoints.

 

3 hours ago, Hexerin said:

She's too OP, makes things boring.

At higher levels she falls off in survivability, even with all the health orbs scattered everywhere. She's strong, but she's certainly no Octavia. Getting complacent gets her killed, but she's great for camping in a big room and destroying everything that dares approach.

 

3 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Once I have her Prime though, I plan to replace Augur Secrets with Umbral Intensify, and Natural Talent with either Umbral Fiber or Umbral Vitality (whichever gives her Prime more EHP). So shards would be 3x tauforge duration (brings her to 200% duration) and 2x casting speed (tauforge or not).

Augur Secrets for Umbral Intensify is a good upgrade, but you might consider skipping Fiber and Vitality. You get plenty of HP from Blessing, and Health Conversion will give you more armor than Fiber and make use of her insane orb generation. You lose out on a little bit of strength, but she doesn't need crazy high numbers to hit breakpoints like some other frames do.

You might find better use in some alternate shards choices, as well. Two greens will synergize with AContinuity for native armor stripping, or faster strip with a corrosive weapon, while if you're dropping her 4 you're only gonna need 1 Tau Amber for cast speed. She's a bit slow on casts, but the 4 is the biggest offender in my experience. 1 Tau duration brings her longer abilities up to 40-50 seconds with AContinuity, which should include Xata's Whisper since it's pretty long lasting as well. In general, while more duration is nice I find there's greater benefit to ditching a few seconds of duration for extra utility elsewhere.

Duration acts as a stand in for efficiency to some degree; if you have long durations, you don't need to cast as often, which reduces energy consumption. However, Citrine's abilities already last a decent length of time and she has insane levels of energy generation so it's not necessarily the best move to invest heavily into duration over other stats. I tend to push range, since it improves her 1 + 3 synergies, as well as Nourish on her 4 (or whatever else I'm using, like Breach Surge).

As for shards, I run two greens for armor strip, a Tau Blue for 75 energy max so I can free a mod slot, a Tau Red for duration (I consider this a flex slot, I'm still experimenting with the other fused Archon Shards), and a Tau Amber for casting Speed. You're right that she can be a little sluggish, but most Incarnon weapons boost mobility in some fashion, and Praedos is a fantastic mobility stick even outside of Incarnon mode.

It's all tradeoffs, but that's my two cents. Glad you like her as well, though!

[Packetdancer]

On 2023-12-26 at 8:00 AM, Hexerin said:

Interesting, I wonder when that was fixed. I tested Archon Flow for a Titania build a while back (the intent of course to generate energy orbs for extra Razorwing sustain), and despite killing hundreds of enemies I never got a single energy orb out of it.

I can definitely attest it works on Titania; on one build I utilize Archon Flow with Dex Pixia modded for cold, for precisely the reason you outline here.

I also use Archon Flow on Citrine, because Prismatic Gem is a joy. (Seriously, Citrine is a monster, built right. And in my opinion, throwing the Archon mods on her is part of "built right.")

Also, fun fact: Trinity can trigger Archon Flow with Link. Anything that does cold damage to Trin gets redirected instead to the linked enemy, and if that damage kills them it counts as being killed with cold damage from an ability. It's a niche case in the majority of content, to be sure, but still kind of funny.

On 2023-12-27 at 12:28 AM, Qriist said:

You're missing the point.

Im not getting *1* corrosive proc "every now and then", I'm getting approximately 3 per second per friendly unit in range of Citrine's crystal, in addition to all 4 of the other elemental procs and their attendent damage. The enemies themselves do not have to be inside the crystal range and intervening walls are irrelevant - a friendly unit just has to fire a weapon while they stand in the radius.

[ ... snip ... ]

I can assure you, it is quite effective. It is insanely strong in a party, offering upwards of +120k party DPS split 4 ways, as a baseline, and that's assuming all party members are just firing single target machine guns with no penetration and have decided they didn't want to run pets - which is a frankly unrealistic quipment floor.

The crystal also works well with with AOE.

[ ... snip ... ]

Seriously, don't discount the gem. 

I'm gonna just underline all of this here. Seriously, Citrine is my go-to Steel Path defense frame; I'm surprised how little I see her turn up in other people's rotations, given how ridiculously strong she is. When she turns up in my options for Steel Circuit, she's almost always an instant pick. And the archon mods only make her stronger yet.

[Packetdancer]

6 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Interesting choice to inject Nourish over Fractured Blast. I don't really see Citrine as a frame that needs a Helminth injection, but if I were to do so... I'd put it over Crystallize, as her other three abilities are too strong to inject over. I also wouldn't use Nourish, she doesn't need the extra damage and has infinite energy so the boosted energy gain is pointless.

FWIW, I took the same approach -- the build where I Helminth'd over something, I chose her 4 and replaced it with Pillage. It's my "help newbies survive Deimos without making them feel useless" config on her; Citrine's healing passive and the DR from her 2 helps the baby Tenno stay alive, the gem helps them do more damage, my using her 1 makes sure they have a ton of energy orbs and health scattered about, and I can use Pillage on her 4 to cleanse status effects if they get the Bad Touch from any of the local flora/fauna.

[SneakyErvin]

On 2023-12-27 at 4:08 PM, quxier said:

My point that I disagree with you is this:

Items (mods, arcanes etc) should be usable "by everyone". It doesn't have to work on "100% power" but you still have to see some benefits. What's the point of building items that are very limited? I get things like Augment mods that change abilities (e.g. Protea that gets armor strip with 2+4) or Augments that works on specific weapon. We end up with game that has only small number of combinations because of those limitations. Game would be much richer without those limitations.

That is all ok since I disagree with your view on this aswell. I'm just used to it from other games where certain items have absolutely no meaning to another class or hero. And since these mods already have other versions that fit the whole roster, making another that also fits the whole roster would be uhm kinda redundant. I mean, if they made cold and toxin apply to weapon kills and weapon damage aswell to make them viable to the whole roster it wouldnt change much, since players would also need to actually make use of those damage types on their weapons instead of combining. So it would really just open up the option for those mods to another frame or two at most.

This has also been a thing for WF since forever, because there are plenty of items completely unusable by certain frames. Aegis, Barrier, shield mods etc. see no use on Pure HP frames, Energize and most of the Zenurik tree along with shards and specific mods are unusable on Lavos and Hildryn, including certain shield mods since the frames have no energy.

[quxier]

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

On 2023-12-27 at 4:08 PM, quxier said:

My point that I disagree with you is this:

Items (mods, arcanes etc) should be usable "by everyone". It doesn't have to work on "100% power" but you still have to see some benefits. What's the point of building items that are very limited? I get things like Augment mods that change abilities (e.g. Protea that gets armor strip with 2+4) or Augments that works on specific weapon. We end up with game that has only small number of combinations because of those limitations. Game would be much richer without those limitations.

And since these mods already have other versions that fit the whole roster, making another that also fits the whole roster would be uhm kinda redundant.

In this case it's about additional effect so it won't be redundant. Unless you count things like "energy regen" from other sources.

9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I mean, if they made cold and toxin apply to weapon kills and weapon damage aswell to make them viable to the whole roster it wouldnt change much, since players would also need to actually make use of those damage types on their weapons instead of combining. So it would really just open up the option for those mods to another frame or two at most.

Look at Primary frostbite:

Quote

On Cold Status Effect
+3% Critical Damage and +2.25% Multishot for 12s. Stacks up to 40x

however:

Quote

Stacking Primary Frostbite does not require the Cold proc to come from the primary: it can come from Warframe abilities such as  Frost's ability kit, or any weapon that can proc Cold - even if the primary is holstered.

They would have to build for some damage (or something) but there are a lot of possibilities (e.g. companion that proc it). So that wouldn't be so restricting.

12 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

This has also been a thing for WF since forever, because there are plenty of items completely unusable by certain frames. Aegis, Barrier, shield mods etc. see no use on Pure HP frames, Energize and most of the Zenurik tree along with shards and specific mods are unusable on Lavos and Hildryn, including certain shield mods since the frames have no energy.

Yeah, that's are problem for those as well, however (afair) you could still equip Arcane eruption and proc "on energy pick up" effect.

Sure, stuff like Archon shards not giving shields is bad.

[SneakyErvin]

30 minutes ago, quxier said:

In this case it's about additional effect so it won't be redundant. Unless you count things like "energy regen" from other sources.

Look at Primary frostbite:

however:

They would have to build for some damage (or something) but there are a lot of possibilities (e.g. companion that proc it). So that wouldn't be so restricting.

Yeah, that's are problem for those as well, however (afair) you could still equip Arcane eruption and proc "on energy pick up" effect.

Sure, stuff like Archon shards not giving shields is bad.

Redundant to make it available to everyone, since there is already a mod for those that cannot fulfill the specific criteria.

Frostbite isnt Archon Flow. While Frostbite can potentially proc from companions (can it even?), killing would still be the requirement for Archon Flow. And if people have issues proccing it on Frost, then a companion would be able to proc it more reliably. You would also give up alot of utility to maybe get an energy orb every 10 seconds from your companion. Archon Cont could potentially work better since it is doesnt require killing, but also assumes it would have bugged interaction with your companion.

Well if you think Arcane Eruption's proc is valid to call it useful on frames that see no personal use of it, then arent Archon mods already valid enough by bringing atleast the baseline stats of the other versions? Also remember that Archon Flow and Cont arent RNG drops, so already useful to newer players even without access to the bonus stats, since the base stats equal a primed mod with a slightly higher capacity cost. My point however is that we have so many things in the game outside of these mods that are 100% pointless to a bunch of frames. I also personally see no problem with that type of setup. And with the new shards, adding something like a weapon requirement to Archon Cont would mean everyone can suddenly 100% armor strip by never even using corrosive itself and the only trade off is 1-2 extra capacity spent on your frame.

[Qriist]

On 2023-12-27 at 6:41 PM, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

Speaking of, do you have any issues stacking Blessing and her passive since you're not running her 1? Or do you find Synth Deconstruct generates enough to do what you need?

Health orbs definitely drop slower than if I was using Fractured Blast, but since Synth Deconstruct does not require the companion to get the kill, just deal literally any damage at all, it still stacks up reasonably fast.

 

On 2023-12-27 at 6:41 PM, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

I assume you're spamming her 4 for the most part?

That is by far my least used skill on her lmao. Generally, the only time I bother is during a defense mission to hard-stop enemies for a few seconds. I don't even make a serious effort to shoot the crystals when I do cast it because the crystals are usually in weird places that make it difficult to line up multiple enemies.

For reference, I use an Incarnoned Telos Boltor with Citrine. It's far more valuable/efficient to keep pushing bullets down a line of enemies to get Prismatic Gem beams than to worry about finding the spawned crystals on individual enemies. Plus, enemy heads tend to all be roughly the same height.

Here's my build.

 

I DID find Citrine's 4th useful during the Plague Star even a few weeks ago, though; the Lephantis clone boss can be temporarily frozen in place. timed correctly, it leaves the various faces wide open to attack.

 

On 2023-12-27 at 6:41 PM, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

It's nuts, honestly. It does cost on direct damage, but with AContinuity and a pair of green shards it still gets full strip for anything that isn't killed outright. With Nourish for viral and energy gen it eats pretty much anything. Only "struggle" can be Acolytes and mobs that have status caps, but it still chews through them pretty fast.

Status caps are so annoying lol.

 

On 2023-12-27 at 6:41 PM, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

AStretch feels underrated, I don't see it in use as often as I would expect it to be since the activation conditions are so easy to outsource if they aren't native to the frame you're using.

I use it on a lot of frames because one of my favorite companion builds, my Hound, uses Synergized Prospectus, which does proc the regen.

 

On 2023-12-27 at 9:35 PM, Hexerin said:

Interesting choice to inject Nourish over Fractured Blast. I don't really see Citrine as a frame that needs a Helminth injection, but if I were to do so... I'd put it over Crystallize, as her other three abilities are too strong to inject over. I also wouldn't use Nourish, she doesn't need the extra damage and has infinite energy so the boosted energy gain is pointless.

I built Citrine to be sorta DPS support, so in my view Nourish fits into that better than Fractured Blast does. Beyond the incread energy intake, it allows me to grant extra viral damage to all allies and their companions, so now every friendly unit is priming all of the time.

Notably for my purposes, Nourish also applies to the Duplex Bond ghosts, even on the same cast that summoned a given ghost. It's a bit hard to tell in screen shots but you can see the Nourish aura running up the ghosts in the exact same way as the original.

Spoiler

 

On 2023-12-27 at 9:35 PM, Hexerin said:

Really only leaves Xata's Whisper, to be honest.

Gave that a shot, seems kinda anti-synergistic with her kit, at least for how I play it. Roar might be good given that it's faction damage.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Qriist

[Hexerin]

13 hours ago, Qriist said:

I built Citrine to be sorta DPS support, so in my view Nourish fits into that better than Fractured Blast does. Beyond the incread energy intake, it allows me to grant extra viral damage to all allies and their companions, so now every friendly unit is priming all of the time.

Notably for my purposes, Nourish also applies to the Duplex Bond ghosts, even on the same cast that summoned a given ghost. It's a bit hard to tell in screen shots but you can see the Nourish aura running up the ghosts in the exact same way as the original.

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I mean yea, they're just specters. All allied buffs would apply to them.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

On 2023-12-26 at 8:05 AM, crimsonspartan1 said:

Archon Continuity would definitely make toxin builds more viable with being able to proc corrosive as well.

This is what you meant to type. Plus, I'm gonna point out, toxin builds are only useful against the Corpus and getting an extra corrosive proc wouldn't actually be useful against any of their units. Great for CO stuff but that's about it.

[Qriist]

I have discovered that Garuda's talons will proc Archon Continuity when modded for toxin.