I just discovered Nyx

[Tiltskillet]

35 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Nyx is one of the last room wide AOE CC frames. They never made frames like that after like 2014.

I'm not sure that Nyx is the perfect frame for an Overguard strip.  Thinking about it more, I don't think just slapping it on Psychic Bolts as just another layer of defense strip is a great idea without some more nuances going into it.  (Maybe more a CC immunity supression than a strip of Overguard per se.)

But I'm curious to know why Venefik thinks it only makes any sense at all on a pure dps frame.  When dps is the only way outside of Null Audit to remove Overguard now.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Use Chaos Sphere augment, put Pillage over Absorb, suddenly you have something that has plenty of CC and tankiness, on top of more widely and reliably removing defenses, but less of it to balance it out.

Or you could put two Green Shards and go ham with Hydroid's Tempest Barrage, that works too, but the stagger on enemies might go against Chaos.

If Psychic bolts could naturally spread and had no cap on target number, Nyx would instantly become a much stronger frame.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 23 horas, Hejirah-Umbra dijo:

No, her appeal is a decent armor strip (not best, not worst), slight cc and most importantly, awesome skins.

Armor strip? are you serious? she can strip armor for 2-3 enemies for cast, you can do amor strip more fast with a helios.

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

hace 21 horas, _Anise_ dijo:

Because:

1) I don't enjoy the playstyle of running around spamming her #1 before I kill stuff, its like an extra step that doubles the time my weapons take to clear rooms

2) Equilibrium synergies really well with her #1 like almost auto include ? but now frees up a mod slot for something else.

3) I actually like her 4th ability, paired with Xata's Whisper and Tenet Tetra with bouncy bullets mod which Xata's makes repeatedly hit the crit enabled target = fun! (this is what the game is about right?)

4) Dethcube is a consistent source of energy generation (it works I never run out of energy and I spam skills all day)

Fair enough. if it works and you like it better then more power to you, I'm not here to tell you how should you play as much as I disagree with how you've chosen to modify your warframe to suit your needs.

Cita

- I don't enjoy the playstyle of running around spamming her #1 before I kill stuff, its like an extra step that doubles the time my weapons take to clear rooms.
- I actually like her 4th ability, paired with Xata's Whisper and Tenet Tetra with Kinetic Ricochet, makes it repeatedly hit the crit enabled target = fun!
- It works I never run out of energy and I spam skills all day.

I may be overthinking this part but, how come her first ability, which takes <1s to be casted, doubles the time you take on clearing a room with your weapons, while using her fourth that has a, slightly longer casting animation lets say, plus what it may take to reach an enemy, paired with a single-target bullet attractor ability which will make it so the shots that pierce / bounce off the target are redirected towards it again, on a weapon with ricocheting projectiles that do not hit the crystallised weakspot after the initial shot, doesn't?

I comprehend the logistics of Xata's Whisper creating a "bursting-bouncing balls-bubble" that once the enemy you were focusing on is done will pop & hit others that are in the vicinity, but the rest of enemies that get hit by the projectiles while buffed by Xata will hit random body parts, so even if you cast Crystallize on them afterwards the only way to hit said weakspot is by forcefully aiming at a part of the bubble where the bullet will pass through the spot?
And again, only the initial passing of the projectile through the weakspot seems to be granted the 300% critical chance bonus, not the shots that keep bouncing inside of the attractor field.

And you say you spam abilities all day, but, with Xata's Whisper replacing her one then 3/4 of her abilities are just timers, so they don't have to be spammed?
Only one you'd have to cast often is Crystallize due to its low active weakspot timer. Which basically means you're running around spamming her 4 before killing stuff, and that I do find to be rather slow & counterproductive specifically paired with Xata's Whisper.

Maybe these are three completely separated things and I'm misunderstanding it by putting them together, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

hace 22 horas, _Anise_ dijo:

"deth 🧊 " only has to get 10 kill assists for a 100% chance at dropping an energy orb, it can also be built for 100% status (verglas) and AOE with either electric or gas?

while "any sentinel" can generating energy orbs is via duplex bond it specifically requires a companion to kill a target for 50% chance, so just NUKING an entire room with a warframe you might not see any energy drop at all from duplex

I don't always use the Synth mods either but when I did it was mostly for Cirtrines passive, again don't run equilibrium but agree it can be used here, but I am not sure what argument you are trying to make here, there are viable alternative energy economies ? yeah I know and its why I don't keep her #1 ability

tldr dethcube for consistency / overkill energy generation? and if I am being completely honest I don't even have to run that, zenurik + arcane energize with any companion build is enough for me to make do without her first ability.

tldr tldr it is fun for me and that is the whole point of being able to build things in different ways ?

I wouldn't consider using Duplex Bond for the energy orb generation, Synth Deconstruct with any form of AoE assisting, such as the one you mentioned for Deth🧊 or any sentinel is more than enough when paired with Equilibrium or Violet Shards, then again if you don't want to go this route, that is up to you and as pointed out there's plenty of other energy sources we can use.

Needn't to get on the defensive with the questions regardless, I'm not trying to make an argument about viable energy sources as much as sharing what I believe is best based on her kit, and how I use her. Ought you find your own build more fun, I'm noone to judge that.

After all, I said I disagreed with your take on Citrine, you asked why, thus I share my views.

[Hejirah-Umbra]

4 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Armor strip? are you serious? she can strip armor for 2-3 enemies for cast, you can do amor strip more fast with a helios.

Can Helios armor strip acolytes or demolysts?

With 144% you can armor strip 4 enemies, with the augment 9 enemies (which is plenty). Before you start complaining about "oh but she needs an augment to do that", remember that many frames need a lot of ability strength mods to fully strip (~5 mods in the case of Hildryn, afaik), while Nyx needs literally 1 mod (umbral intensify).

It's not perfect (it hits mobs randomly), but unlike many other armor stripping abilities (Terrify, Crush, etc) it is instant and doesn't lock you into an animation. 
Meaning, you can move around and actually shoot WHILE casting bolts. It's really fun with something like Proboscis Cernos and possibly other aoe weps.

 

 

 

The end.

Edited February 21 by Hejirah-Umbra

[_Anise_]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Maybe these are three completely separated things and I'm misunderstanding it by putting them together, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

 trying to hit on the three points you didn't get

I can clear rooms efficiently using my melee incarnon without fractured blast, with the new melee arcane literally aoes rooms harder than blast and with better range.

bouncing bullets aren't an issue, what few projectiles escape at random vectors are statistically more likely to go into orbit than hitting a random enemy in an unforgiving spot, but I don't even exclusively use the bouncing bullets combo, other weapons have fun synergies with xata too, I also don't cast her 4 in rotation, mostly if I need aoe cc (look down at the ground and cast it for 360 aoe cc), I sometimes use it for single bullet sponge enemies or sometimes cast it out just for fun of it.

I don't know if the additional hits work correctly or not? the projectiles mod makes the bullet hit 6 times which is different to how multiple hits would work if it had punch? all I know is enemies melt and my screen fills with red crits when I have #4 up with xata while using tetra, it's good enough for me but again I dont even use this exclusively, sometimes I use Felarx with xata which turns into a blender for archrons, what does her #1 do against them ?

When I say I "spam abilities all day" that was hyperbole, I just meant that I don't have energy issues, the abilities that are in rotation are mostly (re) casting preserving shell, resonating crystal and xata (or my other subsumes that I wont go into detail on to avoid muddying the discussion further) finally use #4 mostly fun / situational.

 

 

Edited February 21 by _Anise_

[CrownOfShadows]

Yeah Chaos with augment is the only way I play Nyx anymore. It's a truly stellar defensive ability, other than that her kit really kinda sucks.

My total chaos build is max range, augment + chyrinka pillars (pillars near defense objective, chaos handles the perimeter - extra line of defense in case chaos runs out and can't immediately recast), but gloom and pillage (and even terrify) are solid helminth compliments too.

With a little love she could be back in top form though, she just needs heavy QoL on her 2 and 4, and her 1 needs massive expansion and synergy to be relevant.

She's hard to build because she's extremely fragile, but she needs high range, a little strength and high duration at the same time - not to mention augments. Absorb was probably meant to help with this, but it's pretty meh as a survival mechanic, chaos is really the thing that keeps her alive.

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

hace 14 minutos, _Anise_ dijo:

Trying to hit on the three points you didn't get;

1. I can clear rooms efficiently using my melee incarnon without fractured blast, with the new melee arcane literally aoes rooms harder than blast and with better range.
    
2. Bouncing bullets aren't an issue, what few projectiles escape at random vectors are statistically more likely to go into orbit than hitting a random enemy in an unforgiving spot, but I don't even exclusively use the bouncing bullets combo, other weapons have fun synergies with xata too, I also don't cast her 4 in rotation, mostly if I need aoe cc (look down at the ground and cast it for 360 aoe cc), I sometimes use it for single bullet sponge enemies or sometimes cast it out just for fun of it.
   
   I don't know if the additional hits work correctly or not? the projectiles mod makes the bullet hit 6 times which is different to how multiple hits would work if it had punch? all I know is enemies melt and my screen fills with red crits when I have #4 up with xata while using tetra, it's good enough for me but again I dont even use this exclusively, sometimes I use Felarx with xata which turns into a blender for archrons, what does her #1 do against them ?
    
3. When I say I "spam abilities all day" that was hyperbole, I just meant that I don't have energy issues, the abilities that are in rotation are mostly (re) casting preserving shell, resonating crystal and xata (or my other subsumes that I wont mention for muddying the discussion further) finally use #4 mostly fun / situational.

A bit hard to understand what you were trying to convey, honestly.

1. That has no correlation to Fractured Blast making you take more time killing enemies, should do the opposite. Influence will work on any melee, and any frame.
   I don't see the point of comparing a support ability to an arcane that turns any melee into an AoE for a KPM comparison.
   It's clearly worse at it, yes, it isn't meant for that.
    
2. Just made a few observations from personal testing with the provided example (Yes, it seems only the actual shot gets the Crystallized bonus, the bounces do not).
   Then you proceed to compare a Xata's Whisper Felarx to, again, a support ability at killing archons.
   
   Now, since you've asked as for what it does against them, it forcefully procs slash & impact, which happens to help all weapons that use CO-type mods, and in the case of the Ferlarx, favours Galvanized Savvy as it's not a shot from the weapon and therefore the archon won't adapt to it due to the ability dealing very low damage, which in return will give +160% damage, were Savvy to be active, and that'll be 160% more additive damage before D.Attrition's multiplicative's 2k%.
   So, yes, Xata's Whisper will allow you to deal 50% for example at 200% strength of your Felarx's shot as a second hit, while Fractured Blast can allow you to hit for 160% more damage on the same shot at any strength percentage.
   
   Any sentinel or teammate can proc said statuses too, and you've got Prismatic gem as well, so it reaches a point where Xata's is better than having more statuses if you have enough strength, and DR hasn't kicked in. Though, they do scale better in unison than by replacing one for the other.
    
3. Not really my fault then given how prevalent the word spamming is in relation to abilities here on WF, but I get it, you're just swimming in energy orbeez, which is nice & cool.

[_Anise_]

 

edit retested this

I threw my melee influence xoris into 20 corrupted heavy gunner eximus first with Xata, then again with one stack of shattered blast and again with neither

all 3 cases my time to kill was very similar.

1)It feels like I don't need shattered blast, proved I can kill probably the hardest bunch of enemies than I will realistically ever run into in the game since I don't plan to ever goto level 9999 all without shattered blast!

I have over 200 power so I can get 90% dr on cast of shell

I don't care about condition overload and similar mods

even running at 75% efficiency and I don't have energy issues

when I think about it given high power build I might even prefer to run something like pillage over her #1 to make her even more unkillable and armor strip enemies

Edited February 22 by _Anise_

[Xzorn]

Weird. I find Chaos Sphere to be pretty meh since DE allowed her to re-cast Chaos. It was okay before that.

Nyx never needed armor strip. One of the things I hated about the rework. You just needed a good status gun.

Now you just need a Tau + 3 Emerald to drop enemies to 1% Armor. Does more damage against Ferrite and saves energy against Alloy.
All Armor strip is in this boat now. Pillage is okay since it's got good range and no unit limit but you have to cast it twice.

[Venefik]

19 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

But I'm curious to know why Venefik thinks it only makes any sense at all on a pure dps frame.  When dps is the only way outside of Null Audit to remove Overguard now.

 Exactly because of that. A dps frame (with no access to cc) using an ability to break through a barrier that stops CC would make sense. A CC frame using an ability to break the barrier that is supposed to counter them does not.

 BTW its not that I don't want her to do that, I guess I meant that in a more "Overguard making sense" point of view. I would very much enjoy if Mind Control and Chaos would bypass Overguard since only one of these is a hard CC, and that hard cc is single target. I just don't really think it'll happen since it wouldn't make too much sense to start making exceptions (and with that, lots and lots of "if Nyx can, so should X frames" threads lol).

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Venefik said:

I just don't really think it'll happen since it wouldn't make too much sense to start making exceptions

There are already a fair number of exceptions.

[Venefik]

4 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

There are already a fair number of exceptions.

 Actual exceptions? Then I guess I can see it working for Nyx too (though this logic is kinda horrible on warframe since powercreep exists but anyways).

 But I’m curious now, which abilities were made into exceptions?

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, Venefik said:

But I’m curious now, which abilities were made into exceptions?

If you mean which CCs were made exceptions to Overguard intentionally, specifically, and expressly, I can only point to Cold procs.  However...

• A few CC abilities like Bastille have compensatory slows on CC-immune enemies that predate Overguard and work through it.
• We're coming up on two years of many exceptions working through Overguard without comment from DE.  The phrase "implicit approval" at least has to cross one's mind. Especially in cases like Mag, where she's actually been through a rework post-Overguard, without adjustment to her exceptions.
• DE continues to add new exceptions, the latest being the slow on Qorvex's Pillars.

[Venefik]

On 2024-02-22 at 2:04 PM, Tiltskillet said:

If you mean which CCs were made exceptions to Overguard intentionally, specifically, and expressly, I can only point to Cold procs.  However...

• A few CC abilities like Bastille have compensatory slows on CC-immune enemies that predate Overguard and work through it.
• We're coming up on two years of many exceptions working through Overguard without comment from DE.  The phrase "implicit approval" at least has to cross one's mind. Especially in cases like Mag, where she's actually been through a rework post-Overguard, without adjustment to her exceptions.
• DE continues to add new exceptions, the latest being the slow on Qorvex's Pillars.

 Well, to be fair I find it hard to be this faithful when Equinox has 2 debuffs in her kit, one of which is only a cc if augmented (and the ability is still blocked in the absence of the upgrade) and one of which does quite the opposite of controlling since it speeds enemies up. I would say this is pretty important a fix, specially since Overguard supposedly only affects control, yet here we are. As you said yourself, almost two years of no fixes for a broken ability, which has been broken since the release of the mechanic.

 Taking this into consideration, I think that maybe DE just forgetting about these interations or just not really caring about it to be much more believable than these being actual exceptions. Specially how in the link you've posted, it explicitly says "blinds", and Breach surge pretty much seems like one of if not THE strongest blind ability in the entire game. I guess that if Blinds had an exception, Breach Surge is probably the last option that would cross my mind when thinking about such abilities.

 As for the actual exceptions, it seems to always be on the safer side of things. A relatively low, non-scaling slow is arguably harmless, though it still breaks the rule of what Overguard is supposed to do regardless.

 Anyways, if exceptions are going to happen, I hope squishier frames get picked. Its strange to me how an innately tanky frame and a possibly tanky frame (if you build him with his armor bonus in mind) get picked when their tanky stats are somewhat a way to mitigate OG.

[Tiltskillet]

16 minutes ago, Venefik said:

Anyways, if exceptions are going to happen, I hope squishier frames get picked. Its strange to me how an innately tanky frame and a possibly tanky frame (if you build him with his armor bonus in mind) get picked when their tanky stats are somewhat a way to mitigate OG.

"Squishier" frames make some sense to me.  "Pure dps" frames don't, as if they're good at their role, they should also be good at removing Overguard the old fashioned way.  (Also I don't think any such frame is likely to ever exist, so it's kind of moot.)

But I'll mention as an aside, that since  Absorb to me is kind of a travesty of an ability, Nyx is deep in the Squishy Spectrum afaic. :P

[Venefik]

3 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

But I'll mention as an aside, that since  Absorb to me is kind of a travesty of an ability, Nyx is deep in the Squishy Spectrum afaic. :P

 Definitely, on top of her only real hard CC being single target. I really hope Absorb get some attention at some point, regardless of the 895764895764589674589 possible directions they can choose (Absorb and all the 49857348975 different roles it tries to cover with all the tanking, aggroing, weapon buffing, ccing, direct damaging, etc it tries to do).

 When I first tried Stalker, my immediate reaction was something like "WHAT HERESY IS THIS" when I realized his is basically a modernized Absorb. Q-Q
 Like...I'm not even asking for hers to do all that really good slash damage. The ability just needs to be decent. Pretty please? 🥹

[Tiltskillet]

4 minutes ago, Venefik said:

...my immediate reaction was something like "WHAT HERESY IS THIS" when I realized his is basically a modernized Absorb. Q-Q

 Like...I'm not even asking for hers to do all that really good slash damage. The ability just needs to be decent. Pretty please? 🥹

I still  haven't opened up that option--I've just been sitting on the points forever--but yeah, looking at the wiki description, you're right.   I do like the concept behind Absorb's deactivation buff, but it's not implemented well.

[Darlf]

On 2/20/2024 at 4:47 PM, Raarsi said:

So last time I played Nyx (which was god knows how long ago), her big thing was actually using Chaos and pretending to be a pacifist while enemies were busy ripping each other apart.  Psychic Bolts used to be pretty solid as an armor strip, although the problem was that it was random target.

Absorb even then was kinda never used because it was just taking your energy load and pouring it on the floor.

her augument on 4 make her imortal machine of doom. like she now cna move and attakc whne ingore 100% damage and all status on her :D alos can cast other skill, you need say good by to all time rege energry focus on rege from other stuff and she kinda funny alos whne she finaly end 4 she endd up have insane % of dmg bonus on weapon bcs how long she collet enemy damage. just make sure  you do 45% eff and make a lot of duration so it end up on lowest energry per s 

[-Grognak-]

not sure if someone said it already, some melee stances (I know Katanas have a good one for that) can be used for movement. Arcane Nullifier will prevent energy drain no matter the source.

[AegidiusF]

Le 20/02/2024 à 16:17, _Anise_ a dit :

259% str (too much str maybe?)

Yes, I think. The problem with a lot of strength on Nyx is that it increases the extra energy drain at each 8,000 damage absorbed, making her 4th more expensive. 

[_Anise_]

I didn't realize her absorb scales draining energy,

How I was playing her was just basically putting absorb up and (mostly) leaving it up, using dispensor over 1 to enable slide and sliding everywhere then using her bolts to armor strip where needed and kinda ignoring her chaos because I can wipe rooms without needing it

(yeah I am probably doing it wrong)

[RLanzinger]

Id' say you're good @_Anise_,

As a FROST main, I am accustomed to playing slow runner but Nyx et 50% is still faster than Frost. Tricks are simple :

• Range attack : Activate Archgun then Adsorb+Assimilate
• Melee Attack : Use of Heavy Blade (Scindo) + Rending Crane (Stance mod with a fast forward)
  • Forward (While Moving), Lashing Tempest Damage 425.5%/s
  • Forward Block (While Blocking & Moving), Rampaging Boar Damage 478.3%/s     2.3s

Also Stance Speed are linked to the Weapon Mods so no need to use any Warframe mods to go insanely faster... 😎

[Binket_]

On 2024-02-20 at 11:17 AM, _Anise_ said:

no matter how many speed mods or effects you stack nothing makes this any faster at all!

Not sure if it still works (haven't tested it recently, should still work) but Dispensary seems to enable Assimilate to slide.
This is not only a GARGANTUAN speed boost, but also pairs into my second tip for speed...

Melees... don't seem to be inhibited by this!
For instance, Blind Justice on Nikanas with the Block+Forward Combo can jet you forward super easily.
It is an astronomical speed boost.

... and if you time it right, you can use a Melee's forward momentum and than slide AFTER making it's input to extend the range you go at by a vast margin!

 

This isn't a "solution", mind you. More of a "here's a new perspective on how to try it."

On 2024-02-20 at 11:17 AM, _Anise_ said:

the amount of times I am just bubble up casually aoe a room down while moving slowly and suddenly BAM my energy instantly drops to 0 an pulls me out of immune

It converts damage into energy drain, yeah.
Ancient Disruptors also just... consume your energy anyway. It's kinda silly.

Personally, I do feel the ability could be a bit spicier. No idea how I'd manage that though...

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Le 21/02/2024 à 22:08, Hejirah-Umbra a dit :

Can Helios armor strip acolytes or demolysts?

With 144% you can armor strip 4 enemies, with the augment 9 enemies (which is plenty). Before you start complaining about "oh but she needs an augment to do that", remember that many frames need a lot of ability strength mods to fully strip (~5 mods in the case of Hildryn, afaik), while Nyx needs literally 1 mod (umbral intensify).

It's not perfect (it hits mobs randomly), but unlike many other armor stripping abilities (Terrify, Crush, etc) it is instant and doesn't lock you into an animation. 
Meaning, you can move around and actually shoot WHILE casting bolts. It's really fun with something like Proboscis Cernos and possibly other aoe weps.

 

 

 

The end.

Idk where you got that stat, but it's incorrect. Psychic Bolts only require you to be at 125% strength to fullstrip any defense, it starts at 80%. So you only need a normal intensify and leave one rank off from max. Even less expensive. If you wanna remove specifically 99.2% of anything's defenses, you can run just Augur Secrets for 124% strength.

The fact that Nyx basically doesn't need strength to strip means she can more easily min-max the rest of her abilities (basically just Chaos, which is her most interesting spell anyway).