Update on the Mirage Eclipse Changes

[Reaver_X]

Helminthe version is still too weak, it needs to be bumped up from 30% to at least 60%

[Mayhem-Ivory]

Am 14.3.2024 um 18:28 schrieb Aerikx:

It does more than DPS and thus it has to be balanced to account for that. Otherwise you end with a nourish situation. 

That's the thing though, isn't it? It doesn't do more than DPS! It has the option to do something else instead of DPS.

Nourish actually does 3 different things at the same time with the press of 1 button. The same is true for Pillage.
Eclipse on the other hand only ever does one thing at a time. Similar to Rest & Rage or Elemental Ward - you can only ever have one of the benefits.

Meanwhile, if we compare Roar and Eclipse: Roar affects allies in an area, affects not only weapons but also abilities, and affects DoT exponentially. Someone did the math on the other post: with a 45% buff on Eclipse, it would do the same DoT as Roar at 178% Ability Strength (when using primed faction mods; other circumstances such as no faction mods or higher ability strength prefer Roar). If you wanted to account for the option of having a DR instead of damage in the abilities power budget, you would still not even have addressed the fact that Roar is an AoE & ability buff.

I also think 100% is too much; but I have to disagree on accounting for the DR in the damage buff, as well as point out that neglecting the team buff and ability buff aspect is unfair. Personally, I'm still in the 50% team (though I wouldn't be mad about 45%).

[TheLegendCore]

Congratulations DE, You made eclipse absolutely useless !! just deleted the ability from every single one of my frames that had it. 30% does nothing special, Roar is 150% stronger and applies to everyone. Now nerf Roar lol. 

GGs. 

[vylexes]

On 2024-03-27 at 1:52 PM, TheLegendCore said:

Congratulations DE, You made eclipse absolutely useless !! just deleted the ability from every single one of my frames that had it. 30% does nothing special, Roar is 150% stronger and applies to everyone. Now nerf Roar lol. 

GGs. 

oh please don't dare them because they might just do so.

[amnesiahaze10]

i was wondering why my 400% was gone, now i know thanks...

[Nanon-Mod]

All my build setup is now useless and platiniums was used uselessly. Nice

I was at 541,5% now im at 108.3%

[BR31]

В 27.03.2024 в 15:27, Mayhem-Ivory сказал:

 

I also think 100% is too much; but I have to disagree on accounting for the DR in the damage buff, as well as point out that neglecting the team buff and ability buff aspect is unfair. Personally, I'm still in the 50% team (though I wouldn't be mad about 45%).

helminth eclipse wasn't that broken at 150% for years since the system release.
it wasn't the best option for every situation;  where people used it- it was consistent, full buff (while i can understand toggled consistency is gonna nerf it a bit, but not 5 times, literally as now).

in the patchnotes there was a section about roar vs eclipse and why it's gonna be 30.
but how many builds will use 2 buffs, rotating through them?
if toggle is such a high price- why not make it similar to rest and rage -where you have to choose before the mission starts?

Since it's still gonna be more consistent- i'll take 75-100% for helminth version.
nerfing it as now 5 times- it's quite absurd ngl.

[yobiegtx]

A force que les gens pleurent, vous limitez la possibilité de créer des builds diversifié. A force de vouloir aligner le jeu les builds deviendront identique. Beaucoup de joueurs abandonneront le jeu . Vous détruisez aussi le temps de travail et la panel de builds est réduite en fonction des nerfs apporter . Vous voulez aligner les statistiques entre joueur pour enlever la frustration mais vous faites que la renforcer et ne vous prêtez pas attention aux anciens joueurs. C'est comme pour la nouvelle Warframe Dante , les anciens joueurs attendent un minimum de jeu , c'est la Warframe la plus facile pas d'intérêt de jouer car la facilité a rendu le jeu lassant 

 

Cordialement yobie 

 

De plus

Nous constatons que les configurations A,B,C pour créer des builds sont obsolète et nous ne voyons aucun intérêt à payer 10 Platinum pour débloquer D,E, etc alors que la polarisation est bloqué pour toutes les catégories. Nous sommes dans l'obligation de construire 2 à 3 Warframe pour réellement avoir 3 builds différents, ce qui est contre productif. Nous pensons que c'est une erreur qui est passé sous les radars des créateurs de Warframe et celui des joueurs qui par la suite ce sont adaptés.  Nous espérons que vous débloquerez cette option prochainement pour le grand plaisir de tous.

Dans l'attente d'une réponse positive 
Veuillez accepter les meilleurs salutations de la communauté Warframe

Cordialement yobie

[Faulcun]

Would have been nice to just see them fix the lighting issues so that it worked as intended....

[LittleLeoniePrime]

it still displays as unaltered in the upgrade screen btw...

[Mayhem-Ivory]

Am 31.3.2024 um 16:52 schrieb BR31:

helminth eclipse wasn't that broken at 150% for years since the system release.
it wasn't the best option for every situation;  where people used it- it was consistent, full buff (while i can understand toggled consistency is gonna nerf it a bit, but not 5 times, literally as now).

in the patchnotes there was a section about roar vs eclipse and why it's gonna be 30.
but how many builds will use 2 buffs, rotating through them?
if toggle is such a high price- why not make it similar to rest and rage -where you have to choose before the mission starts?

Since it's still gonna be more consistent- i'll take 75-100% for helminth version.
nerfing it as now 5 times- it's quite absurd ngl.

Eclipse absolutely was broken with 150% - people just didnt like using it because it was unreliable. For Profittaker and Eidolon, Eclipse allowed for one-shot builds; and it was also quite ridiculous whenever you used Invisibility to snapshot the buff.

75-100% would make it hard for Roar to be competitive; even with 50% versus Roars 30% it would need 300% Ability Strength for Roar to deal comparable DoT damage (which is a comparison that is in favor of Roar). That is the kind of power level where I'd be comfortable saying it equals out between damage and team/ability buffing; though after some thought I think I'd go as high as 60% (mainly because Roar is for abilities while Eclipse is for weapons only).

I don't think comparing how much an ability was limited for helminth in a discussion about how two abilities compare to one another is helpful. Mirage can have a stronger damage boosting skill in her kit than Rhino precisely because the latter has other things like Iron Skin to make up for it.

 

I completely agree that making the decision out of mission would be preferable. I don't think the toggle should even be considered a benefit - most builds are just going to use one of the buffs, I cant imagine a situation where I would have too little damage but be comfortable with removing my own defense.

As it stands I feel like DE has chosen a "worst of both worlds" approach, which is very unfortunate.

[mr-marlan]

Well... seems dead to me now...

Rip eclipse.

It was a fun helminth to use...

It didn't deserve this level of destruction.

 

RIP.

[Sylonus]

Given the fact that it's more versatile, and now is reliable in any mission/situation, I think this is a pretty reasonable solution, I'd like to see the value higher than roar, due to Roar's bane benefits and being innately AoE, but, this is at least a step in the right direction.

[TheLegendCore]

For every single content in the game at the moment, there is a better ability to use compared to eclipse. It is pretty much useless at the moment, the dmg reduction does nothing after certain points since you get 1 shot anyways, and the strength is just too low. 

My suggestion is to first use xata, roar, Smite, Nourish depending on what you want to do. There is not a single content in which eclipse is better if not being way worse. 

My second suggestion is to simply delete the ability and forget it ever existed. No one cares about the ability anymore and it has been already forgotten. If you do the simple math you can see that if eclipse was changed to additive dmg type and not at 350% that they introduced but only at 200% it would have done MUCH better than a 30% multiplicative (and by much I mean like 2-3 times stronger). They dont understand that the reason people were not happy with 350% was that it was worse than 150% multiplicative which they were right, but making it 30% is like telling people to stay quite, if you complain more we will nerf it further. 

Eclipse needs to be at least 75% to be better in some situations compared to other helminth abilities, until then simply just dont use it.

R.I.P Eclipse. GGs.

Edited April 8 by TheLegendCore

[Beryliberries]

On 2024-04-08 at 2:42 AM, Sylonus said:

Given the fact that it's more versatile, and now is reliable in any mission/situation, I think this is a pretty reasonable solution, I'd like to see the value higher than roar, due to Roar's bane benefits and being innately AoE, but, this is at least a step in the right direction.

My thoughts exactly.

[stash777]

my Revenant subsumed eclipse went from 469% damage buff from solar eclipse to 93.4%. Is that a fair nerf? I get people complained it was undependable but was the response appropriate? I never complained about having to look for light  areas. I feel like Pablo got angry and said you don't like the solar eclipse? Well f-u community I will nerf the hell out of it and you will never use it again! It seems to be a common theme with your programming team, what you don't like Dante? Too strong you say? we'll teach you players to complain.... and nerf the the hell out of it. (How do like me now!) Then the community team and management scramble to get programming team under control. A few people will always complain about something,  instead of overreacting to these few people complaining listen to the 98-99% percent of people that thought eclipse (dante, nourish, styanax) were fine and not saying anything? If you are worried take polls and ask 30 days after release, Do you like Dante? (for example)

[thats_rudiculous_07]

I removed it from any frame that had it roar is now way better

[Jusonwarframe]

Could we get a toggle for the hold/press toggle? For example, instead of eclipse's defense increase being press and the damage increase being hold, could we get an option for making the damage increase being press and defense being hold? 

Edited 23 hours ago by Jusonwarframe