Limbo is mechanically dead.

[Prof-Dante]

see, I love Limbo he's the first Warframe I truly mained and mastered and the first to have most played with, the very first months that I started this game.

back then Limbo trivialized crowd control, his unique status effect, the Rift was so forceful it was the bane of his enemies and allies alike for how much control Limbo had over the map.

 

ever since the eximus update, he turned into garbage basically.

it doesn't matter how many people ignore the red flags, they absolutely killed Limbo with this update.
Simply, most things in the game are starting to bypass his rift, and become unaffected by it, starting with Eximus, their overgaurd protects them from stasis, and their abilities (despite not being Void based) bypass the rift

the void fissures keyglyph from netracells bypass the rift, most new bosses bypass the rift.

Limbo doesn't deal high damage.

Limbo can't armor strip, teleport, nuke, or have ultimate defense.

the rift is all he had and you took that from him.

please give his rift power over space-time again. it's ridiculous how terrible he is now!

[DeathOfASaint]

they are so inconsistent in whether CC can affect eximus enemies or not

why can rhino cc enemies but not limbo when rhino is a millions time tankier and has a fat dmg buff to pack? 

 

makes no sense, eximus enemies and overguarded enemies feel rushed and poorly thought out

[Xzorn]

I played Nyx from 2013 until her rework. Her rework hurt her but Overguard put he nail in the coffin.

I've mentioned many times now since my return that Overguard can't exist in this form if they want to keep creative designs for frame or playstyles. I honestly think that might be the point though. The game has devolved into spamming missions instead of playing in the missions. A distinct difference.

 

1 hour ago, DeathOfASaint said:

makes no sense, eximus enemies and overguarded enemies feel rushed and poorly thought out

 

You should have seen the first attempt where they were showing it on Dev Stream and failed to hit the little weak points on the enemy.

They were trying to have like 4 linked weak points you had to hit before being able to damage them and missed every shot. It was pretty hilarious.

Bringing back weak points from Damage 1.0 would probably work fine for Eximus and pull the value of single-target weapons up. It makes them a notable target that's not going away until you pay attention and shoot it's weak point while also not obliterating protection/CC frames.

[Raikh]

Its been somewhat remarkable how attempts at making enemies curb player power has primarily hurt Warframes that weren't top of the pile to begin with, while leaving some of the more broadly ridiculous Frames completely unhindered. Not to mention how inconsistent the rules are aswell.

Its genuinely hard to imagine that Frames like Limbo will shine again w/o absolutely radical changes to their kit. And I'm not of the opinion that all these left-behind Frames need roomwide nuking abilities. There are other ways to make them functional and attractive to play, although damage somewhere would certainly help, possibly leaning a bit more into debuffing.

Limbo in particular seems quite tricky though as the Rift mechanic is just so unique and has always been a bit fidgety. Maybe the solution would just be to make it so that enemies that can't be moved into the Riftplane can still be hurt from inside the Riftplane. Allow Limbo to debuff or tag enemies with his weapons to give them a short duration debuff that enables interaction between plains for a short period, say 2-3s. That way Limbo would atleast be able to reap the benefits of the Rift Plane even if his enemies are immune to it.

Would mean anything he actively attacks could shortly be attacked and attack across planes but once he stopped attacking them he would quickly become unsusceptible again. And then just do not have enemy abilities that work across planes with possibly the most minimal exceptions for specific boss fights. If Limbo can't hurt things across planes, enemies shouldn't either. Conceptually similar to how Elude on Baruuk works just more grand and uncompromising because its Limbo's entire thing.

 

[Aruquae]

Master rift manipulator that can only bring enemies into the rift

The enemies are better at rift manipulation then he is… I dare DE to say he’s fine

He’s in need of a rework imo 

Edited March 6 by Aruquae

[Joezone619]

They killed limbo with the eximus rework the same way they killed chroma with the removal of self damage, as collateral damage.

 

  

4 hours ago, Aruquae said:

Master rift manipulator that can only bring enemies into the rift

The enemies are better at rift manipulation then he is… I dare DE to say he’s fine

He’s in need of a rework imo 

As a side note: This is actually true. Go ahead, look up the mod rift strike, those twin basolisk grineer are factually better at manipulating the rift then limbo.

Edited March 6 by Joezone619

[Aruquae]

5 minutes ago, Joezone619 said:

They killed limbo with the eximus rework the same way they killed chroma with the removal of self damage, as collateral damage.

I agree, they then proceeded to beat the dead horse by making all sort of “exceptions” to current enemies then, and newer enemies. 

 

6 minutes ago, Joezone619 said:

As a side note: This is actually true. Go ahead, look up the mod rift strike, those twin basolisk grineer are factually better at manipulating the rift then limbo.

PRECISELY, IT’S DEPRESSING

“Master of the Rift,” is a cruel joke at this point. 
How they massacred my boy…

[Fred_Avant_2019]

He does deal a good chunk of damage, with his guns when you have the Rift Torrent augment. Otherwise he's only a CC frame. Not even good CC on top of that, as you're also preventing your team from touching enemies because of it.

 

Unpopular opinion, but Banish and Rift Surge should be DPS abilities.

[sunderthefirmament]

On 2024-03-05 at 8:12 PM, Qorvex99 said:

please give his rift power over space-time again. it's ridiculous how terrible he is now!

He does need a rework, but this ain’t it. The way he used to be was never good for the health of the game. And now Limbo is left rather binary: off or on. His kit either works at 100% capability, or it doesn’t work at all.  In both cases, he is often a detriment to the team due to this game largely valuing kills per second over literally anything else. 
 

DE, please give Limbo a rework that dumpsters the rift as it currently stands, keeping it in name only. He doesn’t need to be a DPS god or anything, but he could get utility, mobility, and debuffs that fit with his theme more than the impotent grief-fest that his current kit embodies. 

[Aruquae]

3 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

DE, please give Limbo a rework that dumpsters the rift as it currently stands, keeping it in name only. He doesn’t need to be a DPS god or anything, but he could get utility, mobility, and debuffs that fit with his theme more than the impotent grief-fest that his current kit embodies. 

Debuffs? I like the debuff idea ngl. Utility is also good… maybe just make the rift less restricting all around. If enemies can damage through the rift, then so should Limbo (and allies). The “rift” can still considered a state rather than a place. Could also keep Limbo’s passive of rift, by letting him enter the “state.” 
 

Hmmm now I’m cooking an idea for a rift overhaul 

[AegidiusF]

Le 06/03/2024 à 03:12, Qorvex99 a dit :

ever since the eximus update, he turned into garbage basically.

it doesn't matter how many people ignore the red flags, they absolutely killed Limbo with this update.

Even though I could agree about some kinds of incoming damage bypassing the Rift, I don't agree at all with the Eximus changes making Limbo a garbage. The reason is that while Overguarded enmies are indeed not affected by the Rift, their weapon's bullets are affected by it and if Stasis is active they will never reach you. It's even better than disarming an enemy that will try to hit you with melee : the Eximus will continue to shoot useless bullets and will be entirely at your mercy.

Eximus special abilities bypasses the Rift, but they are not really dangerous and it's kind of easy to avoid them.

Eximus are much easier to deal with than Nullifiers.

Le 06/03/2024 à 03:12, Qorvex99 a dit :

Limbo doesn't deal high damage.

This is true if you are talking about buffs from his abilities alone. Only one of his augments can give him some damage buffs and it's an average additive buff.

But Limbo can deal high damage with some Arcanes that can be easly triggered while using Limbo's abilities. As an exemple, Stasis can let him stack very fast Primary Deadhead and paired with his 3rd augment, it can let Limbo deal very nice damage.

 

But, even though I don't really agree with the above points, I would like to see some changes to the Rift, specially about the way Nullifiers can so easily dispell Cataclysm. Specially when we take into consideration that they can't do the same thing with Khora's Strangledome.

Edited March 8 by AegidiusF

[quxier]

40 minutes ago, AegidiusF said:

On 2024-03-06 at 3:12 AM, Qorvex99 said:

ever since the eximus update, he turned into garbage basically.

it doesn't matter how many people ignore the red flags, they absolutely killed Limbo with this update.

Even though I could agree about some kinds of incoming damage bypassing the Rift, I don't agree at all with the Eximus changes making Limbo a garbage. The reason is that while Overguarded enmies are indeed not affected by the Rift, their weapon's bullets are affected by it and if Stasis is active they will never reach you. It's even better than disarming an enemy that will try to hit you with melee : the Eximus will continue to shoot useless bullets and will be entirely at your mercy.

Eximus special abilities bypasses the Rift, but they are not really dangerous and it's kind of easy to avoid them.

Eximus are much easier to deal with than Nullifiers.

I guess you are talking about low level mission with some non-complex enemies.

My experience with Limbo is vastly different. Enemies bypass Catasis, can jump straigth to defense target (failing missions!) etc. It's even easier to let defense guy die (&reseruct him) than protect it properly.

ps. you know how there can be many Nullies. Some of them can be eximus. I could imagine "Melee nully guardian eximus" running towards Catasis.

[AegidiusF]

Le 08/03/2024 à 16:33, quxier a dit :

I guess you are talking about low level mission with some non-complex enemies.

My experience with Limbo is vastly different. Enemies bypass Catasis, can jump straigth to defense target (failing missions!) etc. It's even easier to let defense guy die (&reseruct him) than protect it properly.

ps. you know how there can be many Nullies. Some of them can be eximus. I could imagine "Melee nully guardian eximus" running towards Catasis.

I was talking about any level mission and in general, no specific mission.

Eximus abilities can bypass warframe's defenses, not only Limbo's Rift. This is not a specific Limbo problem. I totaly agree with you, but the OP wasn't talking about a specific problem on Defense missions, but in general (that's why my answer was in general). As any warframe, Limbo can evade Eximus abilities, they are not a problem to him specifically, but, as you said (and I totally agree) they can be a problem for Defense targets (but this is also true for other warframe's Defense abilities).

And I totally agree about the Nullifiers : they are the real problem to deal with Limbo, but not Eximus. An Eximus Nullifier is a problem because it's a Nullifier, not because it's an Eximus.

 

Edited March 12 by AegidiusF

[quxier]

19 minutes ago, AegidiusF said:

On 2024-03-08 at 4:33 PM, quxier said:

I guess you are talking about low level mission with some non-complex enemies.

My experience with Limbo is vastly different. Enemies bypass Catasis, can jump straigth to defense target (failing missions!) etc. It's even easier to let defense guy die (&reseruct him) than protect it properly.

ps. you know how there can be many Nullies. Some of them can be eximus. I could imagine "Melee nully guardian eximus" running towards Catasis.

I was talking about any level mission and in general, no specific mission.

Then you are killing fast enough to not see how bad it is.

21 minutes ago, AegidiusF said:

Eximus abilities can bypass warframe's defenses, not only Limbo's Rift. This is not a specific Limbo problem. I totaly agree with you, but the OP wasn't talking about a specific problem on Defense missions, but in general (that's why my answer was in general). As any warframe, Limbo can evade Eximus abilities, they are not a problem to him specifically, but, as you said (and I totally agree) they can be a problem bor Defense targets (but this is also true for other warframe's Defense abilities).

They are not problem for him specifically but he is is one of the most affected. For example Frost at least applies 67% slowness. With Limbo Overguarded enemies can just enter his Cataclysm and continue shooting/damaging.

41 minutes ago, AegidiusF said:

And I totally agree about the Nullifiers : they are the real problem to deal with Limbo, but not Eximus. An Eximus Nullifier is a problem because it's a Nullifier, not because it's an Eximus.

It's joined problem. If you have nully somewhere you can just go into operator and kill him easily, as they don't posses big hp. With Eximus, especially Guardian one, it's much harder to deal.

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 7 heures, quxier a dit :

Then you are killing fast enough to not see how bad it is.

Nope. You don't even need to kill them : this will show how good it is.

By the way, I'm mostly playing support, so killing enemies is not really my job most of the time, but protecting the team, healing, CCing the enemies.

 

Il y a 7 heures, quxier a dit :

They are not problem for him specifically but he is is one of the most affected. For example Frost at least applies 67% slowness. With Limbo Overguarded enemies can just enter his Cataclysm and continue shooting/damaging.

Perhaps, but Frost bubble won't protect the defense target neither, as Eximus abilities will bypass it. The same for Gara's Glass wall, Volt's Shields, Zephyr's Turbulence... Eximus abilities are a "problem" for every frame and Limbo is not the most affected. Limbo's Rift has a great advantage as alredy said : Stasis can protect you from Eximus bullets and they won't try to melee you (as they are not disarmed), making them easy targets to deal with : you'll just need to avoid their special abilities (telegraphed). And the only thing you need is to remove their Overguard, as soon as it goes out, they will be frozen by Stasis an any other enemy.

No Eximus is a problem to Limbo, even though those Shock Eximus will require some caution. A Silence Limbo is a perfect Eximus killer as he will be able to prevent them from casting their abilities and will freeze their bullets (even if their Overguard is still there).

Il y a 7 heures, quxier a dit :

It's joined problem. If you have nully somewhere you can just go into operator and kill him easily, as they don't posses big hp. With Eximus, especially Guardian one, it's much harder to deal.

I don't think it's a joined problem, as only Nullifiers Bubbles are a problem and you can get rid of it by just destroying the drone generating it, which is very easy even if a Guardian Eximus is around. Guardian Eximus will be priority targets, but not a real problem as you can just bane them into the rift and deal with them apart without even having to cast Cataclysm.

Even in this case, the only real problem are the Nullifiers, not the Eximus themselves. The DR was already there on Void missions with Ancient Healers and Ancient Disruptors, the Eximus changes only made it a bit more common.

Edited March 12 by AegidiusF

[quxier]

1 hour ago, AegidiusF said:

8 hours ago, quxier said:

Then you are killing fast enough to not see how bad it is.

Nope. You don't even need to kill them : this will show how good it is.

If you don't kill enemies AND enemies enter your Catasis then it shows it's good?! That's joke, I guess.

1 hour ago, AegidiusF said:

By the way, I'm mostly playing support, so killing enemies is not really my job most of the time, but protecting the team, healing, CCing the enemies.

Limbo-healer/reviver is still good, I guess. But CC is not.

1 hour ago, AegidiusF said:

9 hours ago, quxier said:

They are not problem for him specifically but he is is one of the most affected. For example Frost at least applies 67% slowness. With Limbo Overguarded enemies can just enter his Cataclysm and continue shooting/damaging.

Perhaps, but Frost bubble won't protect the defense target neither, as Eximus abilities will bypass it. The same for Gara's Glass wall, Volt's Shields, Zephyr's Turbulence... Eximus abilities are a "problem" for every frame and Limbo is not the most affected.

Ok, maybe Limbo without Rift is.. what? What you can do? Nothing except what all frame can do: shoot, melee etc.

Zephyr can damage with 4, can boost damage via being in air. Volt & Gara still has some stuffs that works.

1 hour ago, AegidiusF said:

Limbo's Rift has a great advantage as alredy said : Stasis can protect you from Eximus bullets and they won't try to melee you (as they are not disarmed), making them easy targets to deal with : you'll just need to avoid their special abilities (telegraphed). And the only thing you need is to remove their Overguard, as soon as it goes out, they will be frozen by Stasis an any other enemy.

When I've been trying to protect stuff then enemies teleport to me. They move through Cataisis.

And if you are saying all I have to do is kill Overguarded enemies then... I can do it with other DPS frame better. Or just If I can one-shoot Oveguard the chances are that I don't even need Limbo.

2 hours ago, AegidiusF said:

No Eximus is a problem to Limbo, even though those Shock Eximus will require some caution. A Silence Limbo is a perfect Eximus killer as he will be able to prevent them from casting their abilities and will freeze their bullets (even if their Overguard is still there).

Right, because Helminth ability proves that Limbo is "ok". No, it doesn't.

2 hours ago, AegidiusF said:

is very easy even if a Guardian Eximus is around.

Yes, because the Drone appears before me, outside Stasis. And maybe it even don't move. /sarcasm

Nullies can come with packs, they can make their bubble bigger and hide their drone, afair. You can even have 2-3 Nullies together  - try to find all Drones.

2 hours ago, AegidiusF said:

Guardian Eximus will be priority targets, but not a real problem as you can just bane them into the rift and deal with them apart without even having to cast Cataclysm.

Wait... so I cna Bane Guardian eximus with Overguard that has his Drone killed?! Good to know!

 

[AegidiusF]

Le 12/03/2024 à 22:39, quxier a dit :

If you don't kill enemies AND enemies enter your Catasis then it shows it's good?! That's joke, I guess.

No, it's good because it's still a very efficient CC.

Le 12/03/2024 à 22:39, quxier a dit :

Limbo-healer/reviver is still good, I guess. But CC is not.

Yes, Limbo is still one of the best healers in the game(many players ignore that unfortunately).

I still think his CC is good. It's not as good as before the Eximus changes, but it's still pretty good.

Le 12/03/2024 à 22:39, quxier a dit :

Ok, maybe Limbo without Rift is.. what? What you can do? Nothing except what all frame can do: shoot, melee etc.

Zephyr can damage with 4, can boost damage via being in air. Volt & Gara still has some stuffs that works.

The Rift still works very well, as said, it prevents Eximus from shooting you and lets you kill them in a very safe position. The third augment can give you a nice damage multiplier (additive). All this stuff still work. I don"t see any problem with the new Eximus about this.

Le 12/03/2024 à 22:39, quxier a dit :

And if you are saying all I have to do is kill Overguarded enemies then... I can do it with other DPS frame better. Or just If I can one-shoot Oveguard the chances are that I don't even need Limbo.

It's a game and fun is the most important thing in a game. Some players will prefer using DPS frames (most of them will show their limits at a certain point, as Saryn, whose scaling damage works very bad wih the way enemy level currently scales), others will prefer CC frames, others will prefer support frames.

Limbo is one of the most unique frames in the game, and I think that the same think Pablo said about Loki, is also true about Limbo : he doesn't need to become a DPS.

No other warframe can block Eximus fire as Limbo can and it's still a very effective CC.

Le 12/03/2024 à 22:39, quxier a dit :

Right, because Helminth ability proves that Limbo is "ok". No, it doesn't.

Of course it doesn't. I can make Limbo even better, that's what I said : a Perfect Eximus killer. Without any Helminth, Limbo is still good.

Le 12/03/2024 à 22:39, quxier a dit :

Yes, because the Drone appears before me, outside Stasis. And maybe it even don't move. /sarcasm

Perhaps you are not aware, but no enemy will be there waiting for you to shoot at their heads. Nullifier drone is not different from any other enemy in the game. If you can't hit it because it moves, you can't hit any other mob.

Le 12/03/2024 à 22:39, quxier a dit :

Nullies can come with packs, they can make their bubble bigger and hide their drone, afair. You can even have 2-3 Nullies together  - try to find all Drones.

I agree with this. On long runs on Corpus missions, at some point, we get a lot of Nullifiers around and casting Cataclysm is useless at it will be instantly dispelled. As I said, Nullifiers are a real problem. That's why I was talking about Banish to deal with Guardian Eximus before dealing with Nullifiers with the Operator. But even this will be hard and at some point you will be playing only with the Operator.

That's why I said reviously that I would like some changes about the way Nullifiers interact with Cataclysm : not dispelling it, but just not being affected by it, the same way the interact with Khora's Stranglodome.

Nullifiers are the only problem to Limbo, not the Eximus.

Le 12/03/2024 à 22:39, quxier a dit :

Wait... so I cna Bane Guardian eximus with Overguard that has his Drone killed?! Good to know!

You can, but it's not that useful. If Stasis is already active, it will give you only a few seconds to kill the Guardian inside the Rifh. Overguard does not prevent Eximus from being sent into the rift. The case of a Guardian Eximus Nullifier is hard because the drone will respawn kind of fast.

When I said that, I was thinking about a Guardian Eximus and a Nullifier around (two different enemies), not about a Guardian Eximus Nullifier. I confess that this would be a much harder challenge. I always use Rolling Guard + Zenuriks cooldown to extreme situations like this, but it's not optimal at all.

Perhaps I can agree with you about this specific point.😁

Edited March 15 by AegidiusF
some clarifications

[Venefik]

 Overguard hits Bimbo very hard: Zzz…

 Overguard makes Revenant actually need to be aware of his enemies’ existence: UNACCEPTABLE 

[CrownOfShadows]

Came to bump. Limbo needs some help.