[Dante Unbound] Our plans for next week (35.5.6)

[PontifexPrimus1]

I'm really curious to see how DE is going to handle this on Monday - and I sincerely hope it's not going to be another "we listened to you, and we will rework LOS as you all demanded" post.
We want a revert, and the removal of line-of-sight for Dante, and not round after round of tweaks that try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear!

[StrawberrySparrow]

Geez, Digital Extremes. You guys sure know how to disappoint time and time and time and time and time and TIME again. I shouldn't be surprised at this point but somehow I am.

Jesus Christ, what a failure of game design this entire project is. Good ideas, with backpedaling time and time again. More and more content islands. The illusion of content.

That really does sum up Warframe well. I don't know what is worse, the fact that you guys keep gutting anything and everything fun arbitrarily, or the fact that it never has consequences because Warframe players have Stockholm syndrome and despite saying "Oooh I'll stop playing now! This is the last straw!", they always just come back. No matter what, time and time again. Even if they don't, new players join all the time... Not that I'm any better. I have been on and off this game for ELEVEN years because of this very thing. Nerfs and nerfs and nerfs and new content and abandoning that new content for more new content and nerf and nerf and nerf... etc.

For ELEVEN   years... It has become clear that either the Project Leads don't even know what the game wants to be, or they do know but "What Warframe Is" changes seemingly at random, always arbitrarily. Both of those are just as likely and just as soul-crushingly disappointing as they always have been.

I always come back and things seem better. But it's always a matter of time. Worst part? I'll probably come back again. You guys are winning this lopsided war of attrition. I pray that one game comes along and absolutely eviscerates Warframe. Because the only reason this game keeps going is because there's nothing like it.

 

Best of luck to all Warframe players (current or former), and to the developers. I hope everyone finds their way.

Edited April 7 by StrawberrySparrow

[SneakyErvin]

Seeing as how OG will get some needed QoL for setups that require you to take damage could you possibly also look at Mesmer Skin now that the augment exsists that forces it on team mates? And could Hunter Adrenaline and Rage possibly be reworked to simply be x% of damage taken is converted to energy? That way it would work on overguard, shields and health all the same, meaning frames with shields can make use of it even if having forced OG applied to them. The need to have shields removed before benefitting from it doesnt solve the forced OG issue for frames with shields.

[Gaxxian]

hace 2 minutos, SneakyErvin dijo:

Mesmer Skin

Mesmer Sking should be nerfed into a 90% dmg reduction. Tops.

[Circle_of_Psi]

5 hours ago, yeahnil said:

She straight up lied to people's faces. That and all the blatant gaslighting of the community was too much honestly. I regret spending a single dime on the game and already told all my friends I tried getting back to the game to stay clear. F that noise.

Yup, gotta agree here

4 hours ago, Xahn said:

You can be sure I won't be spending any more money on this game (or Soulframe) ever again. Not without a full apology for lying to us, as well as a revert to Dante's original status.

I snipped most of your talk here but no worry did read it all, it's quite a shame to see that new players (and old) who don't post have to come here to show how bad DE really is with Nerfs like this, but it just goes to show you.

But good on you for sticking to your guts, you may be only a handful of people but voting with your wallet always speaks louder, I am wondering tho how many people have done this like a list of people.

2 hours ago, PontifexPrimus1 said:

I'm really curious to see how DE is going to handle this on Monday - and I sincerely hope it's not going to be another "we listened to you, and we will rework LOS as you all demanded" post.
We want a revert, and the removal of line-of-sight for Dante, and not round after round of tweaks that try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear!

If any, they'll prob make some response and still not undo the revert.

If they do revert, colour me impressed 

1 hour ago, StrawberrySparrow said:

Geez, Digital Extremes. You guys sure know how to disappoint time and time and time and time and time and TIME again. I shouldn't be surprised at this point but somehow I am.

Jesus Christ, what a failure of game design this entire project is. Good ideas, with backpedaling time and time again.

If you been here long enough, the surprise becomes a "Oh okay"

[MetalMechabolic]

30 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

If you been here long enough, the surprise becomes a "Oh okay"

Most players who play online games experience this now a days.  I left XIV due to tone deaf devs and look what happened within two months of playing this game.  At this point I guess I just have to treat this like another XIV with a twist; instead of making classes all feel the same, all frames have a chance of getting neutered if they preform too smoothly in lower level content.  At this point I think it's a "gamer" issue when it comes to defending a company that made a game they like.  Oh well, I got Saryn from the circuit so I'm going to cheese content either way, lol.

[--END--Rikutatis]

I think Dante is very fun to play and pretty strong too, BUT you absolutely need to do more tweaks and fixes to the LoS. It's still bugged as others have pointed out.

I'm not impatient and I think the game will be better as a whole when you guys finish addressing the historically bad LoS and apply it to other frames. It's for the better in the long run, these map wiping nukes that go across rooms and floors shouldn't exist and really dumb down gameplay. But LoS is not quite there right now, still very clunky. 

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

43 pages of people wanting the changes to Dante reversed and still the devs are deff to the outcry of there comunity this is how you know a development team dosent care about there playerbase any more 

You literally tell them what you want and they do the opposite tell them Dante is fine and they nerf it to the ground even after saying were just making a slight tiny tweak to him and then boom massive nerf  (im looking at you @[DE]Rebecca ) 

 

we want him reverted back to his purfect state before all these flaming crap piled nerfs were put on Dante 

 

[Circle_of_Psi]

31 minutes ago, MetalMechabolic said:

Most players who play online games experience this now a days.  I left XIV due to tone deaf devs and look what happened within two months of playing this game.  At this point I guess I just have to treat this like another XIV with a twist; instead of making classes all feel the same, all frames have a chance of getting neutered if they preform too smoothly in lower level content.  At this point I think it's a "gamer" issue when it comes to defending a company that made a game they like.  Oh well, I got Saryn from the circuit so I'm going to cheese content either way, lol.

I guess so

[Siic07]

 Tomorrow we will see if Warframe is still a game for players or for a company.

 

I've been in the game for almost 10 years and I want to believe that the company still thinks about the players.

 

I always recommended Warframe to everyone, I said that Warframe was different because I listened to feedback and made the game good for the players.

 

All the players are talking about the change that should be made and I'm not even going to say what it is, there are already more than 1000 comments saying.

 

Tomorrow it will be proof whether you should continue trusting in Warframe or not.
 

I really hope it doesn't disappoint players who have been playing this game for so many years.

 

 

[Kreepergeek645]

LoS is just bad, you could have just nerfed Tragedy's range and/or damage. Making it LoS basically made it a worse Dark Verse. Tragedy was his big nuke option in lower levels and amazing util in higher. Y'all should just revert the change on Tragedy. At least the Changes to Overgaurd fixes the actual issue while also giving a buff to Chroma.

[ClockworkDirge]

13 hours ago, Binket_ said:

Where the hell were all of you when Heirloom Pack dropped and was asking for prices equal to a full retail game for two glorified Deluxe skins?

I was in the middle of a 6 year hiatus ‘cause I’d gotten fed up with DE being scummy; I only came back from that hiatus at the very end of December because I was assured by a friend who still played that a lot had changed with DE’s design and development philosophy and I should give them another shot with the release of Whispers in the Walls. I’m going back to that hiatus ‘cause they went right back to their old terrible habits.

[HAY_L0W]

I BEG YOU, REMOVE THE LINE OF SIGHT ON DANTE’S 3 AND 4

 

[Zomiku]

1 hour ago, Siic07 said:

 Tomorrow we will see if Warframe is still a game for players or for a company.

 

I've been in the game for almost 10 years and I want to believe that the company still thinks about the players.

 

I always recommended Warframe to everyone, I said that Warframe was different because I listened to feedback and made the game good for the players.

 

All the players are talking about the change that should be made and I'm not even going to say what it is, there are already more than 1000 comments saying.

 

Tomorrow it will be proof whether you should continue trusting in Warframe or not.
 

I really hope it doesn't disappoint players who have been playing this game for so many years.

 

 

This statement should be embroidered and framed, as tomorrow's outcome will be framed regardless.

[kalmeida]

There are games where balance matters, competitive shooters like Valorant or Overwatch, that require regular nerfs and buffs to maintain balance. Warframe is not that, you cannot look at a frame like Limbo or Excalibur and realistically pretend that they are on the same level as Saryn or Mesa.

Powercreep is bad, but in his unnerfed form was Dante powercreep? 

Was he faster than Wu Kong or Titania?, better at staying alive than Revenant? Did he have a faster kill rate than Saryn? Was he better at going to level cap than Octavia or a better support than Citrine or Wisp or better at CC than Nova?

I don't think the answer to any of that is yes and even if it is, it's not by a significant enough amount to justify the nerfs.

I started playing Warframe around the Trinity prime access and one of the things that convinced me to give the game a try was coptering, I heard how DE was a company that looked at what could be considered an exploit and instead of removing it like most game devs would they polished it and added it to the game. If I was trying to convince someone to try Warframe today, I wouldn't tell them about coptering, because they would ask me if DE was still the same company that did things like this and if I said yes, I would be lying to them.

Los is an inherently untiutive mechanic in a game with as much vertical moment as Warframe. Revert the nerfs, Please. 

[OneOmniverse]

9 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

What do you mean?

Paying them to tell people it's fine and gas lighting them into thinking there isn't a problem. 

[Circle_of_Psi]

Just now, OneOmniverse said:

Paying them to tell people it's fine and gas lighting them into thinking there isn't a problem. 

Ahh okay

[OneOmniverse]

9 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Also am I the only person who has noticed that a lot of new players are suddenly coming out of the woodwork to tell about how bad the Nerf is?

Nope. Because this was the first awesome update in a long time and they messed up so bad that people who never even been on the forums have had to come and say their peirce that's how bad they screwed up xD

[Circle_of_Psi]

2 minutes ago, OneOmniverse said:

Nope. Because this was the first awesome update in a long time and they messed up so bad that people who never even been on the forums have had to come and say their peirce that's how bad they screwed up xD

Fair enough!

[OneOmniverse]

8 hours ago, Xahn said:

I don't normally post on the forums either, I've been playing the game since the week Inaros came out, experienced burn out several times, stopped playing for months at a time, the whole thing. over those 7 or so years I've bought more than half  of the Prime access packs (only missing a few due to employment issues and such) I burned out what felt like for good just after the new war and Kahl's weeklies. I came back for a bit, enjoyed Duviri for about two or three month then left again.

I played like three missions of whispers in the walls and that was it, until Dante Unbound. in the week since Dante Unbound was released I've played every day, farming for Dante, I wasn't back, not yet. the mode was fun and all, I was playing with a few non burned out friends, but I could tell, even with the Inaros rework (which I enjoyed) I wasn't actually going to stick around. There was too much to do, I was so far behind in so many things it didn't even matter (still haven't farmed a single Sister, and my current lich is over a year old at this point. I barley had enough archon shards to fill up two frames, the only recent mechanic I'd unlocked all of was the incarnons from my brief reinvigoration with Duviri). 

And then I took Dante out of the oven and gave him a spin. He was instantly my new favorite frame. I loved the way he played, the constant use of his abilities, the options for his abilities. I used them all, and used them constantly. I started farming mirror defense to get mods for his book, I actually bumped my lich up to finally get around to killing him so i could start farming for a hound, to pair with Dante for armor strip. the feelings of burnout were gone for the first time in what felt like years. I was engaging with steel path, I was engaging with my lich, I was playing my favorite game again. it was good to be back. I was even going to spend all my spending money for this weeks paycheck on Warframe. I was looking forward to buying Gauss prime, and a digital Tennocon pack.

And then they gutted Dante, after promising us they wouldn't be heavy handed and nerf him into the ground after just a week.

I tried to play him, I really did. but the LoS felt awful I could barely kill a thing with his powers. I'd press the buttons for tragedy and in a room full of enemies barely any of them would die, or even take damage at all. I found myself using one of my incarnon weapons more and more, instead of casting Dante's abilities, beyond 2-2-4 spamming to keep overguard  up, and 3-2-4 to lessen the amount of  damage I took. It turned Dante from a caster frame that was fun and engaging to play with, to just another weapons platform. If I wanted that I'd go back to Inaros.

So, I uninstalled the game. something I haven't done since 2016, even in my deepest level of Burnout, Warframe was always "my favorite game," and I'd "get back into it sooner or later."  It might sound like an over reaction to some, but this quite literally ruined my weekend, and my opinion of both DE and Warframe. You can be sure I won't be spending any more money on this game (or Soulframe) ever again. Not without a full apology for lying to us, as well as a revert to Dante's original status.

 

*edited for typos*

Exactly they basically advertised something waited for people to buy into it and then stole people's money and time because what they bought and farmed for was replaced with an inferior version tht they continue to try and lead with instead of simply undoing the damage they did. It's not hard as a developer to change what you changed back to it's original form at least it should be so that makes them look incompetent on top of shady. 

5 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Fair enough!

Indeed 😣

[OneOmniverse]

8 hours ago, Xahn said:

I don't normally post on the forums either, I've been playing the game since the week Inaros came out, experienced burn out several times, stopped playing for months at a time, the whole thing. over those 7 or so years I've bought more than half  of the Prime access packs (only missing a few due to employment issues and such) I burned out what felt like for good just after the new war and Kahl's weeklies. I came back for a bit, enjoyed Duviri for about two or three month then left again.

I played like three missions of whispers in the walls and that was it, until Dante Unbound. in the week since Dante Unbound was released I've played every day, farming for Dante, I wasn't back, not yet. the mode was fun and all, I was playing with a few non burned out friends, but I could tell, even with the Inaros rework (which I enjoyed) I wasn't actually going to stick around. There was too much to do, I was so far behind in so many things it didn't even matter (still haven't farmed a single Sister, and my current lich is over a year old at this point. I barley had enough archon shards to fill up two frames, the only recent mechanic I'd unlocked all of was the incarnons from my brief reinvigoration with Duviri). 

And then I took Dante out of the oven and gave him a spin. He was instantly my new favorite frame. I loved the way he played, the constant use of his abilities, the options for his abilities. I used them all, and used them constantly. I started farming mirror defense to get mods for his book, I actually bumped my lich up to finally get around to killing him so i could start farming for a hound, to pair with Dante for armor strip. the feelings of burnout were gone for the first time in what felt like years. I was engaging with steel path, I was engaging with my lich, I was playing my favorite game again. it was good to be back. I was even going to spend all my spending money for this weeks paycheck on Warframe. I was looking forward to buying Gauss prime, and a digital Tennocon pack.

And then they gutted Dante, after promising us they wouldn't be heavy handed and nerf him into the ground after just a week.

I tried to play him, I really did. but the LoS felt awful I could barely kill a thing with his powers. I'd press the buttons for tragedy and in a room full of enemies barely any of them would die, or even take damage at all. I found myself using one of my incarnon weapons more and more, instead of casting Dante's abilities, beyond 2-2-4 spamming to keep overguard  up, and 3-2-4 to lessen the amount of  damage I took. It turned Dante from a caster frame that was fun and engaging to play with, to just another weapons platform. If I wanted that I'd go back to Inaros.

So, I uninstalled the game. something I haven't done since 2016, even in my deepest level of Burnout, Warframe was always "my favorite game," and I'd "get back into it sooner or later."  It might sound like an over reaction to some, but this quite literally ruined my weekend, and my opinion of both DE and Warframe. You can be sure I won't be spending any more money on this game (or Soulframe) ever again. Not without a full apology for lying to us, as well as a revert to Dante's original status.

 

*edited for typos*

I didn’t uninstall I just won’t play anymore like I wasn’t before the update came out ,not playing also means I won’t have to worry about spending money on the game either so it’s a win for my wallet at least 😊

[iiReapzx]

Add "Removal of LOS on Dante" to your list of plans for the week. It is completely unneeded and uncalled for.

Tragedy was already balanced before the nerf because of the way it functions and is able to deal damage. It has 2 checks in place to prevent it from being overly dominant and disruptive. Those checks are requiring slash, toxin, and/or heat status effects to even deal significant damage and requiring 3 ability casts in total just to use Tragedy once. Dante requires an insane amount of casting and energy to maintain ability DPS and keep his buffs active. And in high level or Steel Path content, you aren't nuking anything that hasn't been primed by DoT's so the fact that it could go through walls with no LOS checks was not an issue at all.

No one in the history of this game has ever liked line of sight so idk why y'all thought it would be well received and acceptable now, especially on a warframe that isn't even the strongest nuker we have. This nerf was rushed and impulsive and horribly thought out and I'm just tired of trusting in y'all (referring to Rebecca and Steve on the Dev short ASSURING us that they were being careful and thoughtful about the Dante nerfs which was clearly a lie). The only thing y'all need to look into in terms of line of sight is removing it from as many warframes as possible because its a terrible feature that will always have inconsistencies and seriously makes certain warframes far less fun to play.

Edited April 7 by iiReapzx

[Zomiku]

5 minutes ago, kalmeida said:

Was he faster than Wu Kong or Titania?, better at staying alive than Revenant? Did he have a faster kill rate than Saryn? Was he better at going to level cap than Octavia or a better support than Citrine or Wisp or better at CC than Nova?

It's about what I've been telling in these threads. We, as players, are looking for a response, justification, or explanation for these changes. There are so many posts, not only because of the nerfs themselves but also because of the lack of response. We don't understand these changes, especially when we have other dominating, disruptive, and automated frames, as well as frames that are dominating-disruptive-automated simultaneously. We don't understand the reasons from where we stand, and you keep withholding it. You continue to push the implementation of the LOS mechanic without offering an explanation. As in the post I am commenting on, was he any of these things? What is the reason? Speak to us!

 

 

 

[CrazyDoctor999]

I have never posted on the forums in 7 years of playing this game, but I want, like all players, to see the developers' reaction to everything that players write. We are all tired, we want to play, we want answers, we want a game based on Dante as his release. For the first time in these 7 years, I can't be sure that I can continue to recommend the game to my friends and acquaintances if I don't see answers or some positive changes.

[OneOmniverse]

2 hours ago, iiReapzx said:

Add "Removal of LOS on Dante" to your list of plans for the week. It is completely unneeded and uncalled for.

Tragedy was already balanced before the nerf because of the way it functions and is able to deal damage. It has 2 checks in place to prevent it from being overly dominant and disruptive. Those checks are requiring slash, toxin, and/or heat status effects to even deal significant damage and requiring 3 ability casts in total just to use Tragedy once. Dante requires an insane amount of casting and energy to maintain ability DPS and keep his buffs active. And in high level or Steel Path content, you aren't nuking anything that hasn't been primed by DoT's so the fact that it could go through walls with no LOS checks was not an issue at all.

No one in the history of this game has ever liked line of sight so idk why y'all thought it would be well received and acceptable now, especially on a warframe that isn't even the strongest nuker we have. This nerf was rushed and impulsive and horribly thought out and I'm just tired of trusting in y'all (referring to Rebecca and Steve on the Dev short ASSURING us that they were being careful and thoughtful about the Dante nerfs which was clearly a lie). The only thing y'all need to look into in terms of line of sight is removing it from as many warframes as possible because its a terrible feature that will always have inconsistencies and seriously makes certain warframes far less fun to play.

Nothing but lies. They either rehearse the lies to make sure they are believable or the teams do not communicate with each other and this is the result smh which is even worse cause how are you managing a game with no communication with your other teams let alone your community 

 

1 hour ago, CrazyDoctor999 said:

I have never posted on the forums in 7 years of playing this game, but I want, like all players, to see the developers' reaction to everything that players write. We are all tired, we want to play, we want answers, we want a game based on Dante as his release. For the first time in these 7 years, I can't be sure that I can continue to recommend the game to my friends and acquaintances if I don't see answers or some positive changes.

Exactly. So many ppl came back just for this update and Dante . The first good update and frame in a while where it actually felt fun and exciting .it was so fun and exciting people were willing and did spend money on it . This shows that they can’t be trusted going forward and your time and money would be a waste investing in the game as there’s so assurance it won’t be rendered moot