Elite Deep Archimedea Solo with Dante

[helioth137]

Soooo, a lot of people have been crying about how they feel Dante is now not in a great spot anymore and the nerfs were unjustified, 
they also said that (1): Noctua, his First ability is weak, well,
i built Dante on my second solo attempt around Noctua because it's actually surprisingly energy efficient, even with fast fire rate, 
it does a truck load of damage, and with the right synergies, like secondary outburst, ceramic dagger, arcane velocity, can replace incarnon level weapons. 

Here's the video! :) 
 

 

Edited April 11 by helioth137

[Stormandreas]

Good. Sh*t!

Those who are crying that Dante is terrible and unusable, are just entirely wrong. It shows that they have not made a build for him, have not bothered playing him extensively, nor trying to learn how to rotate their abilities or manage their positioning.

Noctua is his weakest ability, easily subsumable with Roar, but it's far from unviable! I have 2 builds for him, 1 being Non-subsumes and Non-shards. Works absolutely fine in endurance runs.

His damage (when used right) is also so widespread and so massive that he outkills and outdamages every other frame we have when they are used right too. Just nothing compares to doing 4 million true damage to every single enemy in LoS every 3-5 seconds, while constantly making Overguard to flatout ignore all negative effects enemies or missions can throw at you.

Edited April 11 by Stormandreas

[0_The_F00l]

Most players that complain are doing so cause they are missing the map wide clear potential with minimal effort he had before.

And Dante can still do that but just needs a little more emphasis on placement.

Though I don't think anyone really said the Noctua is weak (I have personally showcased its potential to counter many such arguments) It does have strong support potential via tome mods too , but it suffers from the same issue that equinox had , you can either do support or you can do damage very well , but you can't do both. That's why there are DPS and Support builds for it.

I really wish they add an exilus slot to it.

[TeaHands]

Excuse me, this is very disrespectful to do in the middle of Dante's funeral! He's dead and nothing will ever bring him back!!

[Prof-Dante]

1 hour ago, helioth137 said:

Soooo, a lot of people have been crying about how they feel Dante is now not in a great spot anymore and the nerfs were unjustified, 
they also said that (1): Noctua, his First ability is weak, well,
i built Dante on my second solo attempt around Noctua because it's actually surprisingly energy efficient, even with fast fire rate, 
it does a truck load of damage, and with the right synergies, like secondary outburst, ceramic dagger, arcane velocity, can replace incarnon level weapons. 

Here's the video! :) 
 

 

Helio is that you? It's me Hop...is this your crossave account?

[helioth137]

Thanks for the replies guys, glad to hear your opinions too & chuckle at "blasphemy" ;) 

Hey Hopper :D 
It is I, yes! :D 
Not on cross-save, only have my p.c account 

Edited April 11 by helioth137

[helioth137]

Perhaps some people will find this useful: 

https://overframe.gg/build/645036/dante/dante-rewrite-the-world-heaven-hell-and-everything-in-between/

https://overframe.gg/build/645056/noctua/bedtime-stories-for-your-enemies-good-night-sleep-tight-d/ 

tiny highlight clip of the devastation Noctua is capable of, 10m crits... 

...and today I found out that Afentis buffs our beloved book by another 50% fire rate! the buff lasts 40 seconds and can be kept up permanently, you can also use Arcane Exhilerate for yet another +3.6 Energy per second, perhaps even freeing up the Zenurik school for you, probably not, but potentially! Will test tomorrow 
 

 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Great video and demonstration. 

There is one idea I would like to touch on though. I need to add a little context first though. When it comes to Warframe and Warframes themselves, personally I prioritise fun. Not whatever Warframe I think is most powerful or will make playing easier, or whatever will give me a challenge or equal satisfaction around risks or similar ideas. However since I find about 30 different Warframes fun and use them relatively regularly, I usually end up experiencing all of above anyway as a byproduct. 

When I see people claiming that Dante and Noctua are weak, unplayable, destroyed, not great etc yeah my initial unfiltered reaction is to roll my eyes a little sure, but I also remember that its not great to reduce any and all criticisms and negativity into the most uncharitable versions, nor to conflate all criticisms, negativity, objections and so on into an extreme. For one, thats ironically similar behaviour, you can be guilty of going from extreme to another. If everyone did that we would only end up with two sets of people, whiners, trolls, crybabies on one side, and shills, white knights on the other. Two. People in general aren't always the best or most clear communicators. I think a lot of people talk about Dante changes and its less about being good or fine, and its more often about that don't enjoy him as much. Not as fun. Lastly, its often ineffective. I have seen a lot of people with criticisms, and a video won't change most of their minds. I can even already envision several potential arguments, which then themselves also have counter arguments, and counter arguments... and thats what happens on Forums anyway. To sort of short cut all of that though with an example below. 

Hydroid was recently changed a few months back, I personally could have used old Hydroid to solo Netracells and Deep Archimedea. Its because I am sweaty and try hard and know my Warframe tool synergies well, and i know many others could as well. That being said Hydroid was changed and reworked and I think objectively more powerful overall, and subjectively more fun now. Just because people could have completed such missions pre rework, can't mean they won't like or appreciate the new changes/adjustments. 

Basically, I get the sentiment, and I also personally disagree with the sentiment that Dante and Noctua are weak, but sometimes when you see peoples expressions you disagree with, you can try to nah uh them, and "prove them wrong", but you can also re-contextualise what they are saying, even if you still end up disagreeing, you can understand the nuance and sincerity of their points better. Which also means you can address and potentially counter them better too. 

Regardless of above though video was great. I don't personally like the Afentis enough to use it this way lol, but I have my own synergies and builds I am finding effective enough. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Don't expect them to come here and say "Oh you're right Dante is fine, it was probably just me."

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

9 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

Those who are crying that Dante is terrible and unusable, are just entirely wrong. It shows that they have not made a build for him, have not bothered playing him extensively, nor trying to learn how to rotate their abilities or manage their positioning.

Don't put words in our mouths. Dante WAS in a terrible and unusable place after patch 35.5.3. Especially after the new LoS restrictions added to tragedy.

However, DE were quick to backtrack on their heavy handed nerfs and found a good middle ground with most of his kit. I do applaud them for turning Pageflight's status damage increase bug into a feature. And the LoS discourse led them to take a broader look at other frames that were being screwed over by its implementation.

As harsh and vitriolic as I was towards DE after that terrible botch job they did, even I'm not too proud to admit that they did well in handling this situation. And now Dante sits proudly among my favorite and regularly used frames.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb helioth137:

Soooo, a lot of people have been crying about how they feel Dante is now not in a great spot anymore and the nerfs were unjustified, 
they also said that (1): Noctua, his First ability is weak, well,
i built Dante on my second solo attempt around Noctua because it's actually surprisingly energy efficient, even with fast fire rate, 
it does a truck load of damage, and with the right synergies, like secondary outburst, ceramic dagger, arcane velocity, can replace incarnon level weapons. 

Here's the video! :) 
 

 

is this some kind of satire? If so... I don't find it funny.

What Dante can do, almost every warframe with 2x lvl 5 arcanes and with ONE usable Incarnon weapon can do. and even better, because certain Incarnon weapons don't even take 2-3 seconds for a LARGE group of high lvl SP elite eximus units.

p.s.: Your choice of words (marked in red) is absolutely disrespectful and the last thing I want to see here! 👎

[Psianide73]

4 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

is this some kind of satire? If so... I don't find it funny.

What Dante can do, almost every warframe with 2x lvl 5 arcanes and with ONE usable Incarnon weapon can do. and even better, because certain Incarnon weapons don't even take 2-3 seconds for a LARGE group of high lvl SP elite eximus units.

p.s.: Your choice of words (marked in red) is absolutely disrespectful and the last thing I want to see here! 👎

[helioth137]

15 hours ago, TeaHands said:

Excuse me, this is very disrespectful to do in the middle of Dante's funeral! He's dead and nothing will ever bring him back!!

comedy is forbidden! VERBOTEN! RAUSSSSSSSSSS!!! 

4 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

is this some kind of satire? If so... I don't find it funny.

What Dante can do, almost every warframe with 2x lvl 5 arcanes and with ONE usable Incarnon weapon can do. and even better, because certain Incarnon weapons don't even take 2-3 seconds for a LARGE group of high lvl SP elite eximus units.

p.s.: Your choice of words (marked in red) is absolutely disrespectful and the last thing I want to see here! 👎

you're right, absolutely not a satire, this is a dead serious matter, like you highlighting my ReD TeXt oF dOoM to denote we are indeed in hell,
Devs are TeRriBLe, and the communists are taking over!!!
there is no such thing as a divine comedy, especially not by -----
censored ----- redacted author about ------- human existence. 

As for the factuality (is that even a word? you know what i mean), of your claim: no, not "almost every warframe can": 
0. take ANY incarnon of your choice to elite deep Archimedea, that is the point of that game mode, you have to roll with a random loadout, but Noctua can be relied on.
1. nuke enemies aoe with over 5 TIMES (500+%!) the damage stack they currently have ticking away at them, not even the helminth subsume can do that. 
2. buff the entire squad with a weapon duplicate that inflicts both 50% of their weapons damage AND primes them with status
3. create a self regenerating overguard buff and incredibly easily shield entire team (it takes styanax almost fortnite by comparison), and he has to spam his ability actively.
4. create birds that make enemies a: receive status effects more often and b: be damaged MORE from that status effect. 
5. look like a cool owl historian while doing all of the above mentioned. 
6. trigger an entire nation of gamers when the slightest change is made to bring his balance to roughly the point the other frames are at (n0 m0r3 w4LL h4x 4 u!)
7. have the coolest idle animations, read, shoot, & Ask questions later and...
8. not walk, but float among us. 

That said, i do concede the point that another member here posted: Steve admitted himself he was sorry about the botched Job on Launch 
( if you listen closely they say: we didn't intend to release him that overpowered, we're sorry but he had to be brought back in line )
I even made a video about that, how cool, we have developers who have the capacity to apologise, props: 

I played in the aforementioned patch 35.353.5.34.3.434 brief nerf phase, made a different video about that too, then, and honestly
Nezha and Dante were still entirely powerful & playable, that they got buffed even more, you just had to play around the change:
Line of Sight & Range. That placed them back into A- / & S tier, they can do a lot of things other frames can't, and are very solid choices.
If every frame & gun is just left overpowered & broken, the game gets stale quickly. If they didn't care they would leave it like that, but it would die!
Having one frame, or a few frames outshine all the others just gets old and boring too quickly, you can ask people who have been around a while.
In that vid I also criticised the LAUNCH & how changes were then brought about, and said how it was 100%
predictable player backlash would come if they took away the new shiny toy, but, 
one of the best Warframe quotes came to mind in the form of Teshin:

Spoiler

"There is a sour smell in the air, it is the entitlement of spoiled children". 

I'm branching out to talk about Nezha briefly, because if you're talking about a frame being underpowered or nerfed too hard,
It's good to see it in its entire context. Right now, Saryn for instance, due to the emerald Shards, is wickedly powerful for average gameplay,
however, her corrosive spores do NOT effect Necramechs for instance, nor does any other type of armour nullification. The damage they take is attenuated,
just like the murmur boss. This places her below other frames that instead of debuffing, can buff squads, like, oooh, i don't know, dante, rhino, mirage, elemental augment buffs e.t.c

Nezha was, as MANY players, streamers, youtubers e.t.c admitted, was overtuned to the point where it was boring and removed all possible challenge, his divine spears hit the entire minimap with enough range mods on, and all you had to do was kill one enemy for them all to drop dead. I think they're doing a great job on this game, and they make mistakes, since they're human, but they keep improving it, and that is the main point for me. 

Fun fact: Nezha is considered a god in China, and part of why he will always be a solid frame, also... something something, ten cent, something something.
"Nezha (哪吒) is a protection deity in Chinese Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, and Chinese folk religion.
His official Taoist name is "Marshal of the Central Altar" (中壇元帥).
He was then given the title "Third Lotus Prince" (蓮花三太子) after he became a deity."

Dante followed his love Beatrice into the highest Spheres of Heaven, made a fool of the devil, and played the starring role in another great video game, soo, i guess
Man-god-Lover-History-Buff-Gamer-Icon-Dude is the lowest title that he can be informally remembered by. 
I'm a warframe player and I approve of this message. 

Edited April 12 by helioth137

[Venus-Venera]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb helioth137:

As for the factuality (is that even a word? you know what i mean), of your claim: no, not "almost every warframe can": 

0. take ANY incarnon of your choice to elite deep Archimedea, that is the point of that game mode, you have to roll with a random loadout, but Noctua can be relied on.

of course it can. Just because you don't do it or don't want to do it doesn't mean it isn't possible. and in the video you even NOT selected several points for the mode.... 🤦‍♂️

Then I can just use a pimped up warframe or even something like Mesa and the mobs would run away from me if they had human intellect. Because, the chances of killing me are 0%. (unless I take a shower)
and in the two weeks there was at least always a good weapon in the option. In other words, I can mod one of the 3 Warframes for the tank and can solo it super easily even if I select almost all or even all of the points. (which isn't the case for you and it's clear why!).

[Stormandreas]

7 hours ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Don't put words in our mouths. Dante WAS in a terrible and unusable place after patch 35.5.3. Especially after the new LoS restrictions added to tragedy.

However, DE were quick to backtrack on their heavy handed nerfs and found a good middle ground with most of his kit. I do applaud them for turning Pageflight's status damage increase bug into a feature. And the LoS discourse led them to take a broader look at other frames that were being screwed over by its implementation.

As harsh and vitriolic as I was towards DE after that terrible botch job they did, even I'm not too proud to admit that they did well in handling this situation. And now Dante sits proudly among my favorite and regularly used frames.

Funny you say that as I have video proof that he wasn't.

Running 2 1hr long Void Cascades, outkilling and outdamaging the team, while not losing OG and oneshotting everything.

[helioth137]

12 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

of course it can. Just because you don't do it or don't want to do it doesn't mean it isn't possible. and in the video you even NOT selected several points for the mode.... 🤦‍♂️

Then I can just use a pimped up warframe or even something like Mesa and the mobs would run away from me if they had human intellect. Because, the chances of killing me are 0%. (unless I take a shower)
and in the two weeks there was at least always a good weapon in the option. In other words, I can mod one of the 3 Warframes for the tank and can solo it super easily even if I select almost all or even all of the points. (which isn't the case for you and it's clear why!).

Noctua can more than compete just fine with all the other Incarnons, but, players are often limited and either don't have those because they're harder to unlock, OR, 
for instance in archimedea, can't select them. 

I compared Dante, Laetum, Onos, and Mesa's damage, Mesa is not superior,
she's about equal (yes, with all the bells and whistle... velocity, buff subsume, secondary outburst, primed mods), but does single target damage only. 
As for "there was always a good weapon available", well, that's for you, as you saw in my recording, there was not. It's RaNdOm! (what a concept!)

Straight talk though: "don't argue with -----'s (people unwilling to concede logic), or
they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". 
 

6 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

Funny you say that as I have video proof that he wasn't.

Running 2 1hr long Void Cascades, outkilling and outdamaging the team, while not losing OG and oneshotting everything.

Would love to see that!
Here was my review of the nerf patch,

honestly it wasn't anywhere near as bad as the babies, i mean children i mean, mature adults on the forum made it out to be,
all they really changed was not shooting through walls (what a concept!), and a sizeable reduction in Overguard. 

Totally relatable that Dante carried the squad in Cascade with a good setup. 
The little things like complete status immunity (voruna was and is my bae for that mode because of that too), totally add up. 

But damn, we're heretics for actually being interested in objective truth,
having an opinion, testing it, and not going along with the mob, infidels!
Off with their heads!!! rEdRuM

[Venus-Venera]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Stormandreas:

Funny you say that as I have video proof that he wasn't.

Running 2 1hr long Void Cascades, outkilling and outdamaging the team, while not losing OG and oneshotting everything.

he is very much right. This is where false information is spread and new players are fraudulently deceived. something like that shouldn't happen!

[Drachnyn]

Very funny to post this thread after some nerfs were walked back and the especially broken LOS on tragedy was fixed. DE wasnt happy with what they did either, no need to play DE defense force now for the errors they admitted themselves.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Drachnyn:

Very funny to post this thread after some nerfs were walked back and the especially broken LOS on tragedy was fixed. DE wasnt happy with what they did either, no need to play DE defense force now for the errors they admitted themselves.

true. and that's how amateur propaganda works. It's never about an objective image. but about unfunny things like:

- can you describe green grass outside?
- it is thin and sharp, therefore DANGEROUS!

[Stormandreas]

2 hours ago, helioth137 said:

Would love to see that!

I haven't done any cutting to the video, that'd take a little time, but here's the VoD at a good timestamp to showcase his power even before they sorted some of the LoS problems (and shows him doing 2-5 million damage to nearly everything in the room): https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2111349013?t=4h39m50s 

Some SS's of the stats of those runs too:

Squad with, in order, Dante, Kullervo and Frost

Spoiler

Squad with, in order, Dante, Octavia and Mag

Spoiler

So for anyone to say Dante can't kill anything POST LoS fix, is just entirely wrong. These SS's were taken PRE LoS Fix (not pre-LoS implementation).

2 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

he is very much right. This is where false information is spread and new players are fraudulently deceived. something like that shouldn't happen!

Wanna explain the above then?

Edited April 12 by Stormandreas

[helioth137]

12 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Very funny to post this thread after some nerfs were walked back and the especially broken LOS on tragedy was fixed. DE wasnt happy with what they did either, no need to play DE defense force now for the errors they admitted themselves.

1. Noctua was unaffected during this entire time, which this build centres around, which many people said was "weak" and an "easy subsume". 

2. the nerfs were in my opinion negligible (read: small) anyway (the bug with dante himself creating
"line of sight" for enemies was a genuinely annoying bug though), and people overreacted to the stat change, as they often do. 
"borderline unplayable" as some people called him is a vast, vast exaggeration. 

you can see the changes from that patch here: https://www.warframe.com/updates/pc/35-5-3 
most of the changes were kept, just a few line of sight related "buffs" were then placed, and the way the paragrimm functioned on release, a.k.a quite overtuned, 
was both restored and formalised

2.5 the nerfs were not removed, just reduced a bit, what was changed was this, (there's even a buff! in the nerf patch! woah! radical dude!):  

Quote

• Increased Wordwarden’s weapon damage on warded allies from 30% to 50%. 
  • The Wordwarden felt a bit lackluster in comparison to the rest of Dante’s abilities, so we gave it a boost to encourage players to experiment and engage with it more. 
• Final Verse’s “Tragedy” now only affects enemies within Line of Sight.
  • This felt like the most reasonable change to Tragedy since it could be cast back to back without much forethought on positioning. So to make it a more active ability, enemies must now be within range in your Line of Sight to be impacted by it. 
• Reduced the amount of Overguard gained from Final Verse’s “Triumph” from 5000 to 2000 at Max Rank. 
  • For a bit of compensation, we increased Triumph’s base Overguard Regeneration per second from 50 to 100 at Max Rank (can still be modified with Ability Strength). 
• Reduced the amount of Overguard gained from Light Verse from 500 to 250 at Max Rank (can still be modified with Ability Strength). 
• Added Overguard Cap stat to Final Verse’s “Triumph” description to make it clear that there are cases where the cap for Light Verse and Triumph can be different (ex: when using the Precision Intensify Mod). 
• Final Verse’s “Pageflight” no longer applies increased Status Effect Damage to enemies hit by its Paragrimms. 
  • This was an undocumented element of Pageflight, but for the sake of transparency we wanted to inform you of its removal. We believe its removal strikes a better balance and synergy with Status Damage inflicted by Tragedy.
  • NOTE: This is not a removal of the Status Vulnerability added to enemies by Pageflight. We are only removing the unintended additional damage taken from Status Effects. 

3. I recorded this on Sunday night before the reset, perhaps that was before the buffs even hit. 

indeed: the changes were made this wednesday. 

 
4. doing Elite Archimedea solo on any frame is an achievement in my opinion, well, except
revenant, those players sold their soul to the lich king :P

5. DE pays me well ! I got the entirety of... nothing ! 
( /s many players just can't handle the fact that logical choices were
made and approved of by the designers and rational veteran players (account created 2013...)) 

As for some other poster who i can't be bothered to talk to directly anymore,
After testing, redoing builds, recording & comparing them for a while just now, I have a fair idea about Mesa's Exalted Weapon and Dante's fat book, 

Surprisingly underwhelmed by Mesa, not only is she single target, but she really needs armour strip from pillage or Unairu to do more than tickle those big fat enemies, even with 2 corrosive shards and 300% power str, all the arcane bells & whistles, she didn't close to Dante damage wise, not to mention the fact that she died much quicker..

Also working on a bigger project with all the exalted weapons so kudos for the inspiration for that, but it costs too much energy to talk to you, regarding "pRoPaGaNdA" and other humourless topics, so, good luck in life.

[sh0shin]

Meh, people who said he was dead on the initial nerf were kinda right since LoS was so fcked and he just felt bad in general.

The unnerfing has helped a lot. But still, when you go from an S tier frame to a B+ tier overnight, of course you're gonna get backlash! Consider that this game is also played by people as young as 13, who might also be posting in forums...

He's solidly A tier but I'd still rather play Garuda or Gauss.

I never even got to try his unnerfed self, which is the biggest pain point for me personally. I am glad his Noctua builds are good, even though the book deserves an Exilus.

[Stormandreas]

50 minutes ago, sh0shin said:

Meh, people who said he was dead on the initial nerf were kinda right since LoS was so fcked and he just felt bad in general.

The unnerfing has helped a lot. But still, when you go from an S tier frame to a B+ tier overnight, of course you're gonna get backlash! Consider that this game is also played by people as young as 13, who might also be posting in forums...

He's solidly A tier but I'd still rather play Garuda or Gauss.

I never even got to try his unnerfed self, which is the biggest pain point for me personally. I am glad his Noctua builds are good, even though the book deserves an Exilus.

I'd love for you to explain this then:

3 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

I haven't done any cutting to the video, that'd take a little time, but here's the VoD at a good timestamp to showcase his power even before they sorted some of the LoS problems (and shows him doing 2-5 million damage to nearly everything in the room): https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2111349013?t=4h39m50s 

Some SS's of the stats of those runs too:

Squad with, in order, Dante, Kullervo and Frost

  Reveal hidden contents

Squad with, in order, Dante, Octavia and Mag

  Reveal hidden contents

So for anyone to say Dante can't kill anything POST LoS fix, is just entirely wrong. These SS's were taken PRE LoS Fix (not pre-LoS implementation).

How does an S tier frame, who gets marginally nerfed, and is supposedly then B+ tier, outkill and outdamage, a frame like Octavia that everyone is saying was far better, during his supposed "dead" state.

Honestly, his "unnerfed" self, felt about the same as the "nerfed" and even current self. Infact, I much prefer having the LoS, because it was confusing hitting enemies for millions, and then seeing numbers of 100k through walls and going "wait huh?"

[Gaxxian]

hace 2 horas, helioth137 dijo:

1. Noctua was unaffected during this entire time, which this build centres around, which many people said was "weak" and an "easy subsume". 

You are completely right, i also find Noctua a fantastic weapon :)

 

But... you didnt used 334 a lot, did you? People is "crying" because 334, not because Noctua. Try to make a build around your 334 and look by yourself how it performs 🤷‍♂️

It will kill? Sure. It will work? Kinda. It will be so fun as using a good weapon? No way on hell xD Now, THATS the issue :P But people likes to exaggerate or missrepresent to others, specially when it doesnt affect to them ^^!

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

8 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

Funny you say that as I have video proof that he wasn't.

Running 2 1hr long Void Cascades, outkilling and outdamaging the team, while not losing OG and oneshotting everything.

Yeah sure. You're a real comedian.