Deimos feels too much like two different planets, should it be treat as such from a gameplay perspective?

[Zahnny]

Recently I've been replaying Nightmare missions in Warframe and I noticed some things that...kinda bothered me.

This isn't really exclusive to Deimos since the Zariman also does this but,

Nightmare Missions don't spawn on the Entrati Lab tiles on Deimos. By no means am I saying to seperate them from a lore perspective, but I feel like it'd be nicer for players if both Deimos and the Entrati Labs were treat as different "planets" on the Star Chart.

Allowing for Nightmare Missions and for Extractor Drones.

 

I feel like from a lore perspective, the obvious answer is "The constructs in the Entrati Labs keeps the Infestation out" but despite being so close they couldn't feel further apart from each other.

P.S. Thinking about it, the Derelicts don't feel connected to Deimos either.

Edited April 18 by Zahnny

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I'm largely apathetic to this. Like I get what you are saying, and don't necessarily disagree either, but also there are likely several out of game reasons to do with convenience and such motivations I am completely cool with. Then lore wise is covered and gameplay wise... Well again, doesn't really bother me. Like I guess it would be nice to have Nightmare missions in the labs, but I am more happy that they are included in Omni Fissures with Zariman, since gameplay wise thats something I care about/desire more, having new locations having Relic Fissures 

You might know this already but Derelicts use to be separate with their own node, but got folded into Deimos around the time of that update (not sure on the exact exact update/time specifically). Thats why that might seem disjointed. I can't remember the exact explanation either.

[Pakaku]

Nightmare missions are basically just a modifier, and I wouldn’t be opposed to adding those modifiers to more missions.

I’d probably like an extra planet just so Deimos doesn’t feel as crowded, though. It’s difficult to tell which nodes are a part of which section of the planet.

Edited April 18 by Pakaku

[Zahnny]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

You might know this already but Derelicts use to be separate with their own node, but got folded into Deimos around the time of that update (not sure on the exact exact update/time specifically). Thats why that might seem disjointed. I can't remember the exact explanation either.

I think it was that DE didn't like them requiring Keys to access, correct me if I'm wrong.

But yeah, the Derelicts don't really feel like a part of Deimos.

I know Forest Tilesets and Plains of Eidolon are hugely different, but you still feel like you're on "Earth" or an Earthly planet. It's hard to imagine myself being near Deimos when in the Derelicts.

[ominumi]

Let's not go there please. People will start mentioning Kuva Siphon missions. Then the Invasion missions. Don't forget about Arbitrations as well. I don't care if these special missions are very selective because it's just using the tileset with modifiers.

[Lord_Drod]

Deimos needs a moon, where the old derelict missions reside.  Then Deimos is the open world since they are completely different tiles. 

Sanctum being on Deimos though makes sense to me more than the derelict does. 

Edited April 18 by Lord_Drod

[Zahnny]

13 hours ago, ominumi said:

Let's not go there please. People will start mentioning Kuva Siphon missions. Then the Invasion missions. Don't forget about Arbitrations as well. I don't care if these special missions are very selective because it's just using the tileset with modifiers.

I assume you mean Kuva, Invasions and Arbitrations on those planets, right? Not "make them their own planets"?

If it's the former, I don't see why not. I feel like the only reason DE haven't added those to newer tilesets is simply because they've been left in the dust, like why only recently we're getting Fissures in a unique form on Deimos and Zariman.

I don't mind if the missions are just drag and dropped in but it'd be cool if they got the Fissure treatment and were made unique to those tilesets.

[PrideB4TheFall]

15 hours ago, Zahnny said:

P.S. Thinking about it, the Derelicts don't feel connected to Deimos either.

I will gladly take the Derelicts on Deimos than the original craft a "Key" to enter. I agree that the older players who remember the original system probably felt it was a little strange in terms of a location migration. For the players who came later, I'm sure it feels pretty natural. Differences in aesthetics aside, it was a bold and good move on DE's part. 

[Zahnny]

32 minutes ago, PrideB4TheFall said:

I will gladly take the Derelicts on Deimos than the original craft a "Key" to enter. I agree that the older players who remember the original system probably felt it was a little strange in terms of a location migration. For the players who came later, I'm sure it feels pretty natural. Differences in aesthetics aside, it was a bold and good move on DE's part. 

Yeah, I'm also fond of it being changed to how it is currently. I just dislike how it doesn't feel well integrated lorewise.

Even just some dialogue like characters saying "The Derelicts left adrift above Deimos" or being able to see Derelict remnants in the Cambion Drift or up in the sky.

[Cram_Duahcim]

[Corvid]

It's worth noting that there was a window before Heart of Deimos came out where DE removed the need to use keys to access the Derelicts. I actually completed the Steel Path for them during this period.

Personally, I think DE should move them back to being their own region, expand the tileset used for the Drift's caves and use that to fill in the Deimos mission nodes.

[PrideB4TheFall]

31 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Personally, I think DE should move them back to being their own region, expand the tileset used for the Drift's caves and use that to fill in the Deimos mission nodes.

Reb was pretty obscure on a dev shorts, but when a question came up about RJ content she kinda evaded the question with a grin. How cool would it be to put the Derelicts on the RJ map in the Void and partially redefine their role(s) obviously keeping corrupted vaults. There would be some problems to address with barriers to entry for newer players who don't have a railjack yet, but I think they could implement a good work around.

Edited April 18 by PrideB4TheFall

[ominumi]

2 hours ago, Zahnny said:

I assume you mean Kuva, Invasions and Arbitrations on those planets, right? Not "make them their own planets"?

If it's the former, I don't see why not. I feel like the only reason DE haven't added those to newer tilesets is simply because they've been left in the dust, like why only recently we're getting Fissures in a unique form on Deimos and Zariman.

I don't mind if the missions are just drag and dropped in but it'd be cool if they got the Fissure treatment and were made unique to those tilesets.

You have to understand. It isn't a switch then BOOM! Instant different mission with modifiers. Even Sorties missions are tailor made for each individual missions. We're just not there yet. Railjack already showcase it can be done. Flip the switch then a different missions type activates. The old tilesets rea more restrictive.

[UnstarPrime]

18 hours ago, Zahnny said:

Deimos feels too much like two different planets, should it be treat as such from a gameplay perspective?

I would ask why it feels like two different planets to you.  Because I live on Earth, and it contains such a wide diversity of biomes and aesthetics that I have yet to experience even half of them.  And because of this, I have no trouble believing that there could be a planet where outdoors is mucky and organic and inside is clean and crafted...especially when that describes my day-to-day existence in the real world.

[Zahnny]

6 minutes ago, UnstarPrime said:

I would ask why it feels like two different planets to you.  Because I live on Earth, and it contains such a wide diversity of biomes and aesthetics that I have yet to experience even half of them.  And because of this, I have no trouble believing that there could be a planet where outdoors is mucky and organic and inside is clean and crafted...especially when that describes my day-to-day existence in the real world.

Well for one. The skyboxes.

I understand Deimos is probably massive, but looking out at the Entrati Labs and Murmur Skyboxes they are so gargantuan that it's hard to realistically imagine it taking place in the same area as the Cambodian Drift.

[Tiltskillet]

3 minutes ago, UnstarPrime said:

I would ask why it feels like two different planets to you.  Because I live on Earth, and it contains such a wide diversity of biomes and aesthetics that I have yet to experience even half of them. 

It's odd to me too, but there is a certain planetary environment theme park aesthetic that some people are probably familiar with in this game.  And probably in a lot of games, movies, and other content in some sense.

Although personally my first instinctive reaction to the topic was, "Phhffft...don't touch my fast travels, yo."

[UnstarPrime]

5 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

I understand Deimos is probably massive, but looking out at the Entrati Labs and Murmur Skyboxes they are so gargantuan that it's hard to realistically imagine it taking place in the same area as the Cambodian Drift.

I honestly think that's the point, though; the "unreality" of the Murmur areas tearing vast Lovecraftian skies into the interior of the Entrati Labs is intended to mess with your brain's expectations of how space works and places fit together.  That it's hard to realistically imagine these areas being in the same area as the Cambian Drift is by design.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

On 2024-04-18 at 2:07 AM, Zahnny said:

P.S. Thinking about it, the Derelicts don't feel connected to Deimos either.

well, that's probably because they weren't. the Derelict used to be it's own region of the map on the far right side, but when Heart of Deimos came out DE decided to make those missions the nodes for Deimos instead (probably to save time/they didn't have any plans for Deimos' own Tileset other than Cambion Drift). also Deimos was pretty much an Orokin and Entrati Stronghold until the very end, so it  sort of makes sense that there's an old orokin fleet in orbit.

13 hours ago, UnstarPrime said:

I honestly think that's the point, though; the "unreality" of the Murmur areas tearing vast Lovecraftian skies into the interior of the Entrati Labs is intended to mess with your brain's expectations of how space works and places fit together.  That it's hard to realistically imagine these areas being in the same area as the Cambian Drift is by design.

this. who's to say that the labs didn't look totally different in both aesthetics and scale before the Murmur broke in? and I'd honestly have been disappointed if wally of all people couldn't have a crazy mind-blowing tileset that doesn't conform to known laws of physics. wally DGAF about your physics!

Edited April 19 by (PSN)robotwars7

[Corvid]

On 2024-04-18 at 8:18 PM, UnstarPrime said:

I would ask why it feels like two different planets to you.  Because I live on Earth, and it contains such a wide diversity of biomes and aesthetics that I have yet to experience even half of them.

Something to note is that Deimos IRL is only ~16km on its longest dimension. For reference, if you put Deimos in the Strait of Dover (the narrowest part of the sea between England and France) it would only reach just over halfway across.

There's not exactly much room for biome variance, even if we assume that Orokin construction efforts vastly increased its size.

Edited April 19 by Corvid

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

Nightmare missions are an archaic feature of Warframe added to the game way before things like power creep and Steel Path were a concept. Outside of getting certain mods, they don't really have a place in the game anymore. Much like the old alerts system and acolyte event, they really should be retired and have their rewards added to more current content. 

Edited April 19 by Ace-Bounty-Hunter