Jade Shadows - Dev Workshop: Enemy Resistances and Status Rework (LIVE!)

[Grimmpup]

Quote

Gas
Gas is extremely powerful due to the interactions with Bane Mods, where Gas double dips into multiplicative bonuses. As of right now, we don't have plans to change how Gas works, as players have invested a lot into making Gas work alongside Primed Bane Mods. As it stands, we don't want to nerf that interaction, so we feel there is currently no room to buff the Status any further. 

Begging on my hands and knees to give gas a QoL change so that weaker gas procs don't override stronger ones anymore; trying to run a gas damage setup when I have a teammate spreading secondary encumber procs that override mine and neuter my DPS is pure pain

[moondog548]

26 minutes ago, Digital-Dreams said:

Could you share a build or explain how Gas is good then? Because I must be building wrong if everything I test Gas with is weak as S#&$

It's actually been explained in this very yhread already.

The cloud's damage is based off the damage of the hit that proc'd it. Big hit = big aoe dot. Crit/bane/headshot/etc for big hits.

But as people point out, weak procs from anywhere can and will overwrite your strong ones.

[DalanorTheLlama]

Gas issues were already pointed out by others but why give the overguard damage bonus (along with shield damage) to magnetic? Just to make it more appealing compared to toxin?

Blast could use that instead of turning everything into AoE. Remember when AoE weapons got nerfed at one point by being too dominant?

Magnetic distrupting enemy skills like a mini Silence could work since it already happens against players and that would be valuable against every faction.
Other status effects would be still more prefered but with this niche magnetic would be considered in certain cases.

[Azamagon]

4 hours ago, [DE]Sam said:

Magnetic (and Toxin)

Gas

Viral

Blast 

Magnetic

Sounds decent, though it would benefit from becoming TRULY universal, not just an eximus-aid. The electro-explosion would be nice as a general benefit, for example, instead of doubling down on its antishield niche.

Gas

ALL DoTs doubledip with banemods. Gas' strength is so niche, it's hardly a contender for being OP at the moment. Uncapping it should be fine, making it useful for fastfiring weapons too.

Viral

Well, i think most people would be fine with a nerf to Viral. Say, down from 100% to 60% on first proc, and 20% per extra proc instead of 25% At 10 stacks, that means the 4,25x multiplier instead becomes 3,4x. Still really good, but slightly less oppressive in the meta.

Blast

Sounds powerful. Potentially Gas 2.0, even. Will have to playtest to see how this functions in practice.

The rest sounds good.

[Darlf]

that new caliban augument look nice... that what i want to say.. new frames get auguments but not him... god even if you do rework and dear you not break his feeling of be difrend, it take a time and do an augument is pretty simple if you not make some crazy one. how hard is do somethign for his 2-3-4 ? any of that skill have so much that can be do. your allys can use stats of your mele now, turn laster into and explosion , debuff enemy on 2 give max pasive stakc to 80% not 50% 5% per enemy. it can be so much.

[SorenLuon]

5 hours ago, [DE]Sam said:

Howdy, Tenno!

Over here, we’re still iterating on how best to approach reworked Statuses and Enemy Scaling. However, we’re focusing on one bite at a time, which will help inform further decisions!

 

So as exciting as the cold status update is, asking for a garuntee of whether or not Yareli will benefit from it. Her abilities say they do cold damage but i never actually see her abilities dealing/procing cold damage upon the top of a enemies hp bar. so will Yareli benefit from the update to the status ? or is it just not in the cards for her

[Darvahoya]

I understand the need to make the game easier for new players but 95% of the enemies are already pushovers for experienced players with top tier weapons. I hope Jade won't tip things further toward making this a beginner's game. Perhaps some of the end-game features will help but for now these locations are so limited due to weekly play caps that it restricts my playing time. However, I'm looking forward to Jade and the latest changes.

[Caerith]

2 hours ago, Digital-Dreams said:

Could you share a build or explain how Gas is good then? Because I must be building wrong if everything I test Gas with is weak as S#&$

Gas is like electric where it does AOE damage, so use it on an AOE weapon or with Melee Influence and enemies will not only take damage from the gas cloud but also damage all other enemies who are close to them.  With tight enough groups all gassing each other, this scales exponentially.  With forced grouping (from abilities or Nautilus) it gets ridiculous.  Gas clouds linger after death as well.

It struggles against armor, so use armor stripping against Grineer-- which you probably have to do anyway-- or just use something else against Grineer.  It works just fine against Corpus and Infested.

You can find better explanations (and builds) if you search for "gas" on the subreddit.  No shortage of threads where someone asks something like "What does Gas actually Do?" and then picks fights with anyone who answers.

[H8FaTe]

On 2024-04-26 at 9:15 PM, ExcaliburSpecter said:

PLEASE... give us the ability to see enemy health life that...

It already exist... Open ESC > Options > (Seach Health)
Enable "Show Health over Enemies"

[RacerDelux]

Is Biting Frost remaining unchanged? Not that I mind, but it seems like cold procs kind of do this already now?

[NovahX]

There is one addition I'd like to request for Frost changes:
Please remove the health cap of 1'000'000 from Frost's Snow Globe.

[mutantflipper4]

there's so much stuff that needs fixed in the game like comas defense mission. were the 1 unit get stuck on the terminal 2 rooms away has been like this since release. also Akkad Eris when using hydroid tenacles sometimes drops units to the bottom of the map or pulls it to the walls so you can't dmg and have to leave or abort mission.

then you have all the new cool frames but left the older ones in the dust. and the skills of the older ones don't even come close to the new frames dmg numbers. 

the diviri makes no sense you get it early game and its more of end game content. you removed mastery rank from quests. that was a bad move. part of the game is the grind to get weapon and frames so your more powerful to beat the new quest or the new mission. maybe make getting the items more accessible so I'm not running content past new war with mastery 4 with me having to carry them 

mods are miss classed tons of them make no sense being Exilus and ones that should are not. wall latch is useless no one uses it and needs to be changed

"limbos augment for healing in the rift don't show up in the primes augment list again since day one of the release of the augments not to point out a ONE NULLYFYER KILLS LIMBOS ENTIRE KIT USELESS IN CORPUS MISSIONS. overguard units walk through the rift can't be statis or banished and shoot you dead.

the primary synoid simulor when the 3 orbs gather is supposed to do aoe to units around it but its not doing any dmg at all 0 zilch Nadda and the ammo gets stuck not letting you fire orbs when there's more orbs gathered this happen in diviri yesterday in the circuit

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mandingy]

6 hours ago, Digital-Dreams said:

Could you share a build or explain how Gas is good then? Because I must be building wrong if everything I test Gas with is weak as S#&$

Gas on its own isn't good, it requires grouping and a lot of special conditions. It'll definitely be stronger once the armor changes happen. The issue is that electricity kinda does the exact same thing but way better. Gas definitely needs something to make it better on its own

[Zaghyr]

10 hours ago, [DE]Sam said:

Gas
Gas is extremely powerful due to the interactions with Bane Mods, where Gas double dips into multiplicative bonuses. As of right now, we don't have plans to change how Gas works, as players have invested a lot into making Gas work alongside Primed Bane Mods. As it stands, we don't want to nerf that interaction, so we feel there is currently no room to buff the Status any further. 

It was mentioned before that Gas was getting VFX changes to make the effect more clear. Is this still being worked on? Also, with Blast being reworked and no longer having the 'reduce enemy accuracy' debuff, I think moving that effect to Gas could be good. Just saying Gas works with Primed Bane Mods as an reason to not do changes is a poor excuse. Not all players have those mods, not all players even use banes at all, and the Bane interaction affects all DOT statuses not just gas. Gas CAN be strong, but it takes a lot of investment, and is still heavily hindered by the 10 stack cap. If improving damage is a concern, moving Blast's accuracy debuff to Gas would be an alternate way of buffing gas that is meaningful (due to Gas being AOE) and thematically on point with enemies not being to see well when stuck in a Gas cloud.

[insanitybit]

11 hours ago, [DE]Sam said:

Gas is extremely powerful due to the interactions with Bane Mods, where Gas double dips into multiplicative bonuses. As of right now, we don't have plans to change how Gas works, as players have invested a lot into making Gas work alongside Primed Bane Mods. As it stands, we don't want to nerf that interaction, so we feel there is currently no room to buff the Status any further. 

 

This is the only thing I'm confused by. Toxin and Heat both scale their DoTs with Bane Mods, right? So if I have Toxin/Heat on a weapon already, and a bane mod, what would motivate me to burn a mod slot getting Gas? The answer is definitely *not* the interaction of Gas with Bane Mods, so it has to be something else, and that something else today is not super interesting - it's just some AoE, and it's very easy to get it wrong. I run a few gas weapons and it's mostly because they already have innate toxin and I want something like electric or cold so I need *something* to combine into it.

Am I incorrect about how Bane mods work?

Edited June 1 by insanitybit

[Cauldraborn]

Seeing that we'll be able to shoot into Frosts Snow Globe, could it be enabled as well for Hounds Reflex Denial mod? I love using Hound and would like to use Reflex Denial without so much hatred. Spotting it isn't exactly the easiest when it's active + the Hound just has the biggest hard on for diving in front of your line of fire, or when moving around so much and the tethering kicks in making it teleport onto you with it active.

[deivispeilis]

The nerf and status changes overall are great, especially for most players. You no longer have to have an armour strip ability or some elaborate setup to kill enemies. Amazing changes for the majority of players.

[ArturiaFayth]

I might be missing it thanks to how the armor changes are worded, but how would full armor strip work then after the changes?

Because if i am reading the changes correctly, it should have become impossible to strip all armor ( Have a minimum threshold of any Enemy Armor.
      a. No armor-accessing Enemy will have below a certain minimum <--- the specific wording used, indicating that the enemies will always have some armor  )   while they also mention a total armor strip, as in reducing the armor to a full zero.

The way that the resistance changes that come with this also makes me wonder how that will work in combination with the armor strip thanks to how they worded the changes in how the resistances won't change even if you remove the armor. For example, heavy gunner has ferrite armor which is weak to corrosive but once you strip the armor completely corrosive becomes kinda useless as you lose the benefits from corrosive.  Would corrosive still have that same 75% bonus damage on them with these resistance changes once the full armor strip is done or will you still lose the benefits of corrosive once you've done a full armor strip ( as in zero armor ) on those enemies?  

Edited June 1 by ArturiaFayth
Broke the resistance part and armor part up so it is easier to read

[ZeroKaizer]

On 2024-04-27 at 12:00 AM, [DE]Sam said:

Cold
Our goal with Cold is to emphasize the effectiveness of the fantasy of slowing and freezing your enemies.

Cold now has a new effect where you freeze your enemies upon reaching the new Cold stack maximum.

• Cold has a new stack cap!
  • Freezes enemies for a few seconds after inflicting full Cold stacks.
• While Frozen, Critical Damage is greatly increased.
  • How do Frozen enemies deal with additional damage?
    • Do not regenerate Shields.
    • Weapons and Warframes that deal Cold will be updated to reflect this new behaviour.
    • Freeze may synergize with other Status Effects, such as Bleed.
• VIP enemies (Acolytes, Bosses, etc.) cannot be completely frozen; they’ll also be immune to the frozen-inflicted Critical Damage increase, naturally.

feedback on Cold proc 

for nekros main out there / nekros users 

this new cold proc is a nerf to nekros desecrate ability

 

"can be found in wiki"

in the past nekros desecrate, Cold procs being on a target when they died would result in an ice status, which could then be shattered into two parts to desecrate
this has been change and no longer be the case for it and the results now, is only frozen torso that cannot be broken down further, and therefore can only be desecrated once

 

meaning if the new function of cold will result on ice status it will limit the number of bodies making it into only a single desecrate

be harder to farm specific mod drop from enemies / resources 

 

hope pablo notice this

 

Edited June 1 by ZeroKaizer

[DrakeWurrum]

Could we maaaaybe address the fact that it's weirdly redundant to have both Toxin and Gas as damage types?

I mean, originally Gas simply was a persistent cloud of Toxin damage, but now Gas is an actual damage type of its own... which, like I said, is redundant.

Conceptually speaking, what is Gas damage type, and why is it mechanically just AOE Toxin?

For that matter, why is THAT the result from Heat+Toxin?

Shouldn't Heat+Toxin... be Radiation? Because that's what "radiation" actually is. Toxic energy. Toxic heat.

It might be kinda pointless to change up damage combinations this many years into the game, but I think we should at least replace Gas with something that isn't just "Toxin 2.0"

I would suggest we make "Plasma" a damage type, but uh... thinking about it, that's kinda what I would expect Heat+Electric to be, so I'd rather not make things MORE confusing.
We can't really make it "Acid" because we already have Corrosive. We could MAYBE make it "Chemical" but that's basically the same.

Maybe the damage type could be "Necrotic" and what makes it unique from the damage-over-time of Toxin is that it's more the idea of "rot" and "decay" - the status effect could cause enemies to lose health when attacking, or maybe it causes their max HP to be reduced more and more with every stack of it (to a certain limit).

Edited June 1 by DrakeWurrum

[Kentricks]

As a new player (1 month of overall playtime) all those damage types and mixes feel overwhelming for me coming from 6 years of Destiny 2 and other MMO`s. Warframe has tons of things to farm and do and on top of that new players like me need to copy-paste a build even tho they dont have all the mods and then the build ends up not working properly.
The 2nd way of doing it is to buy a substantial amount of Platinum and just go P2W style but then you cant enjoy the game and the leaps are too big (you just melt content at an incredible pace without enjoying it and that`s a shame).
I truly belive this changes will make it easier for people like me understanding the game better and keeping track of what does what and making their own builds adapted to their current mod inventory instead of just copy-paste some Googled one and not understanding how things work. 

Edited June 1 by Kentricks

[thats_rudiculous_07]

Corrosive affect should be cap to 50-75 for armor striping for weapon dmg status but leaving abilities and mods unchanged as stripping skill ...still necessary  to get full advantage 

Edited June 1 by thats_rudiculous_07

[Nekomian]

8 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Conceptually speaking, what is Gas damage type, and why is it mechanically just AOE Toxin?

For that matter, why is THAT the result from Heat+Toxin?

Shouldn't Heat+Toxin... be Radiation?

If you heat up a toxic chemical, it turns into a vapor (state change), i.e. a toxic gas that can be lethal when breathed in. I would expect heat + toxin to be gas, regardless of what its actual status effect is, and I think it's fine to leave it as that. No need to change names to introduce additional complexity or confusion.

[Azamagon]

57 minutes ago, Nekomian said:

If you heat up a toxic chemical, it turns into a vapor (state change), i.e. a toxic gas that can be lethal when breathed in. I would expect heat + toxin to be gas, regardless of what its actual status effect is, and I think it's fine to leave it as that. No need to change names to introduce additional complexity or confusion.

Alternatively: Toxin + Heat could also create some kind of chemical burn effect, akin to stuff like Napalm or Mustard Gas.

[owendawgx]

All damaging status effects double-dip on Bane mods, not just Gas. Gas is just the only one that has a stack cap (making it completely unviable with faster-firing, lower-damage weapons) and not scaling with increased elements.

The whole update on Gas just reads like you don't know how your own game works? Have you actually tried using Gas builds? They're terrible unless you incorporate intense grouping on high-damage-per-shot high-status weapons against enemies with minimal armor.  

Seriously, all status effects double-dip banes. Saying Gas isn't getting buffed because it double-dips banes is a very silly statement. Please revisit this internally.