Steam Forums and Pride Month

[Kaiga]

On 2024-06-02 at 3:01 AM, _Eclips3_ said:

I don't think it's appropriate to advertise peoples sexual preference and what they do in their bedroom to legally speaking, children.

Good point, all those heterosexual flirtation and scenes should be removed from gaming, and media, the characters shouldn't be allowed to talk about their heterosexual relationships, marriages, etc, because lord knows, children might be influenced by them!


I think you'd like the middle east quite a lot.

[carecaplatonico]

8 hours ago, Corvid said:

Mothers, fathers, sons and daughters haven't been categorically persecuted for the majority of recorded history, up to and including the present day.

I dont know if i agree with that persecution premisse, unless we're talking about the middle eastern countries, where, contrary to what the other commenter pointed out, i would not like to live. Cannot imagine being in a country where they would force my daughters and wife to cover themselves and submit to all those very particular set of rules.

I can agree that some people were picked on and messed with, in the past, but not in this day and era. I mean, there are gay bars, apps, everything you can think of, if that is persecution..

 

Why a month and not 2? Lets double the awereness? Maybe triple it.

Absolutely nothing else that i know of, gets a month to be celebrated, not even earth, and we all live here.

[Hyroncore]

On 2024-06-04 at 7:44 AM, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

 

 Speaking freely is not a crime.

IDK if you’re referring to someone in this forum or just general ambiguous person.

“Fighting evil”

IDK man. Some of the things I’ve seen from your side ain’t exactly squeaky clean.

Yeesh so your saying laws against hate speech are unjustified? That being able to hire or fire a person based NOT on their work output but sexuality is ok? Are you also saying that I should be allowed to openly speak about the Holocaust in a manner that ignores historical truth?

You are negging for the sake of it and that fighting evil quote being followed by the "Some of the things Ive seen" is a clear case of whataboutism with no evidence to support it. And again as others have said EVERY RELIGION OR COMMUNITY HAS BAD APPLES but to use THAT truth to justify your narrow world view is pathetic.

[Hyroncore]

12 minutes ago, carecaplatonico said:

I dont know if i agree with that persecution premisse, unless we're talking about the middle eastern countries, where, contrary to what the other commenter pointed out, i would not like to live. Cannot imagine being in a country where they would force my daughters and wife to cover themselves and submit to all those very particular set of rules.

I can agree that some people were picked on and messed with, in the past, but not in this day and era. I mean, there are gay bars, apps, everything you can think of, if that is persecution..

 

Why a month and not 2? Lets double the awereness? Maybe triple it.

Absolutely nothing else that i know of, gets a month to be celebrated, not even earth, and we all live here.

 Why?? Why are we ignoring viewpoints provided that explain how deeply rooted anti-LGBTQI+ hate still is? This flippant remark of "Nothing else I know of gets a celebration" ignores the core issues.

Be it anti LGBTQI+ or abortion or other issues such as religious mutilation of women and forcing them to wear coverings lest they be whipped there is a level of ignorance being aired here that just hurts.

Abortion was removed as a right by MEN in the US with Dobbs.
That decision one of the MEN who used their place of power to gut abortion rights is suggesting they revisit Obergefel and other LGBTQI+ cases as well as the rights of women to take contraceptives.

The point I make above with referencing FACTUAL REAL WORLD ISSUES not speculation is that there are people who seek to reverse or prevent future progress towards a better world. THAT is why Pride month still matters.

[Marvelous_A]

Yes, you gotta be tolerant otherwise we will not be tolerant and take away your freedom of speech, whoever lesser people who don't share the same sex preference as me

Edited June 6 by Marvelous_A

[PollexMessier]

13 hours ago, carecaplatonico said:

Asking others to celebrate other people's sexual preferences is weird

It's about being able to have an open relationship with the person you love and not get treated less than human because of it, when it comes to the sexuality part of it specifically, which is only part of it.

I'm sick of people narrowing down on the sex aspect of the whole thing. Setting the obvious things like trans and gender aside which are completely independent of sexual desire, Is straight love just about sex? Is every romantic interaction between a straight couple in any form of media nothing more than just innuendo? Ofc not. Being gay or bi or whatever isn't just about "who you wanna have sex with". It's about all the other things that come with relationships of that caliber. Love is more than just wanting to bang someone. As a perfect example, Asexual is specifically about not wanting to bang someone, and instead just wanting to experience other forms of romantic intimacy.

If I kissed another guy in the wrong place, somewhere a straight couple wouldn't have any of these issues, I could get fired, kicked out of an establishment, served bad food, have my car or house vandalized, get assaulted, killed, or just generally treated poorly, ext. for no reason other than that I like guys. Fighting against that crap, that's what it's about. That's the point. Not what we do in the bedroom.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

New day, new points to address. 

 

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Asking others to celebrate other people's sexual preferences is weird, people are getting fed up.

 

Alternatively, asking for societal wide basic respect, tolerance, not to be harassed, discriminated against, oppressed, marginalised, allowed to live and just exist. People get fed up and will be fed up about anything. Some people think the world is flat, and get fed up over people who disagree. Some people get fed up with police brutality. Just the behaviour of being fed up isn't exclusive or reflective to any particular notion, idea or thought. Context matters. 

Also why does Pride month exist? Do people just not know history and the reason why Pride month in USA, (and many other countries) is June (generally) because it commemorates the Stonewell riots which were in protest defiance of police raids, police manipulation tactics and other types of abuse? Its not like one day, a random gay person thought hmm yeah, I want straight people to celebrate my sexual orientation, just cuz. 

 

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A whole month, no less, orders of magnitude more, than the time to celebrate mothers, fathers, sons and daughters.

 

Two if you also count LGBT History Month (October in USA, Canada, Australia, February for UK, May for Germany). Also this might come to a shock to some, but many mothers, fathers, sons and daughters are actually gay, trans, and so on. Crazy right? Its almost like its not a competition, and that Pride actually commemorates historic riots, protests, marches, events, and people, and is inclusive of people, including mothers fathers, sons and daughters and well really anyone who wishes to be involved. 

That and the establishment of Mothers Day for example, have a lot more peacefulness and generally less conflict and tension tone and sense, less violence and oppression around its creation, (well there were a few different origins for overlapping ideas) development and commercialisation. Though, some aspects of some of the earlier ideas did involve some sombre aspects (families reuniting, and some overlap with certain woman's rights ideas), not quite the same as how Pride came to be, let alone a few other commemoration, celebrations days, months, for different minorities or historic (and modern) oppressed groups, etc. 

Not to mention certain things, like being a son, daughter, father or mother are like, you know, already accepted, common, tolerated, not a big deal. For centuries, let alone decades. Other things like being a black trans person travelling through a sundown town, less so. 

 

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Heterosexual relations are what made our species survive. Nothing wrong with it, so they should not be removed at all, also because most people relate to them.

 

The other person was (probably) being factitious to highlight and point out potential hypocrisy in some peoples ideas of what should be allowed, not allowed. Species survival is way more complex than just so simple a variable as sexual behaviours. i know and could say a lot, if anyone is actually interested (its really interesting and fun topic mind you. You know much about Giraffes? Well... ). Also yes, there is nothing wrong with it but again, other user was likely already aware of that and implicitly inferring why other relationship depictions of the sme nature and context can be fin too (well that was my interpretation, I am not a mind reader). 

 

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Cannot give you a percentage, it seems to be going down every year, but it is a large majority, i'd think you agree.

 

Not being illegal anymore is a plus, as well as being able to legally marry as well. Relatively less persecution, discrimination, risks, in many ways etc, a more open, chill, free safe environment to be more expressive and explorative of ones sexuality will help. 

 

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Some say there is a social contagion aspect to the trans movement. idk if that's correct

 

I do know, and its not likely to be correct/accurate*. Like many broad general ideas, people have had similar ideas and speculations in the past, but until someone actually tries to be a bit more objective about it... So that sort of happened here, or was attempted, and that attempt became ammunition for several groups, specifically some transphobic groups, with anti trans sentiments and ideas. In that a person, Dr Lisa Littman, published a paper in 2018 in PLOS/The Public Library of Science, basically around Rapid-onset gender dysphoria/ROGD and it was her paper that went on to be popularised (mainstream news channels and outlets took interest) and publicised and attempted to be used as "proof", but... her science and methodology wasn't the best, her ideas and methods were heavily critiqued, examined, and there was, is, many competing and conflicting data. Even PLOS One had a correction to the paper, essentially saying it failed their quality standards and needed to be revised. There have been many studies and papers since which call into question claims around Littman's study as well as ROGD in general. 

That being said, it was pop science for a while and brought up in quite a few news places, but not necessarily in a good, neutral, and sound way, so I wouldn't fault anyone for potentially thinking it had more credibility than it actually does. *Its also a complicated subject with a lot of variables, and generally speaking you want to go in with good faith over such things, and as far as the science, well employ good science, have a lot of data and info, and sometimes you just need time as well. Unfortunately in some countries, it becomes a political issue and so bad faith gets interjected, but tis is where good science literacy is valuable and the ability to recognise good science from bad, objectively/neutrally. 

 

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I can agree that some people were picked on and messed with, in the past, but not in this day and era. I mean, there are gay bars, apps, everything you can think of, if that is persecution..

 

I literally just had to explain how one person's relatively minor and discredited study/paper because nation wide ammunition for anti-trans organisations, groups, and even made its way into arguing and justifying anti-trans laws and legislation. Thats persecution. "Conversion therapy" is a thing. In many places its banned and illegal, because of much of an unscientific scam it is, and how much actual harm it can do, some reputable International health organisations define it as a type of torture. Yet in some places, including some states, its still allowed. Thats persecution. Not to mention various public shootings motivated by homophobia, transphobia, many homophobic and transphobic laws (though depending on the country, state, place, time etc they may be something of either the distant past, or only just recently improved on), but many still exist and many weird ones have been proposed. The type that are literally invasive to as many straight and CIS people as well (like the people who want to check all kids genitalia... something like... needing to make sure, by having a "normal sane" CIS adult checking them, to ensure you don't have any trans kids trying to be weirdos or something... )

Not in this day or era... right. See you don't take a few freedoms allowed, a few nice things, and think that magically means persecution doesn't or can't happen. Thats like saying that home is where the heart is, and since homeless people are technically alive, with functioning hearts, they therefore can't be homeless. Thats just simply not how being a marginalised minority, a persecuted minority, or an oppressed minority works. 

 

[HanShan7]

2 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

Yes, you gotta be tolerant otherwise we will not be tolerant and take away your freedom of speech, whoever lesser people who don't share the same sex preference as me

This isn't the great point people think it is. look up the paradox of tolerance. Someone being tolerate of one thing but not another does not make them a hypocrite

[Genitive]

10 minutes ago, HanShan7 said:

This isn't the great point people think it is. look up the paradox of tolerance. Someone being tolerate of one thing but not another does not make them a hypocrite

This, and freedom of speech isn't an excuse to discriminate. A lot of people seem to forget that freedom of speech ends when it infringes on the rights of others.

[HanShan7]

35 minutes ago, Genitive said:

This, and freedom of speech isn't an excuse to discriminate. A lot of people seem to forget that freedom of speech ends when it infringes on the rights of others.

it can be a hard line to draw legally but video game forums can set their tos. it's popular to equate forums removing posts for going against tos and people criticizing a certain opinion as a violation of free speech which is silly. 

Edited June 6 by HanShan7

[ToastyGrimlock98]

3 hours ago, Hyroncore said:

Yeesh so your saying laws against hate speech are unjustified? That being able to hire or fire a person based NOT on their work output but sexuality is ok? Are you also saying that I should be allowed to openly speak about the Holocaust in a manner that ignores historical truth?

You are negging for the sake of it and that fighting evil quote being followed by the "Some of the things Ive seen" is a clear case of whataboutism with no evidence to support it. And again as others have said EVERY RELIGION OR COMMUNITY HAS BAD APPLES but to use THAT truth to justify your narrow world view is pathetic.

Don’t put words in my mouth. IDK how tf you jumped my refusal to entertain people’s self perception to lying about the Holocaust.

 

I’m not going to share what I’ve seen on a video game forum. That’s crossing a line and will probably net me a warning. So I’m not doing it. The closet I can get is I literally talked to a mother who was bragging about forcing her son to go through changes despite the fact that there was no medical evidence for her to put him through that.

When the actions of the bad apples are enabled by the rest of the community simply due to the “accept everything and don’t ask questions” mentality. Then it becomes a problem.

[Kaiga]

5 hours ago, carecaplatonico said:

Heterosexual relations are what made our species survive. Nothing wrong with it, so they should not be removed at all, also because most people relate to them.

Cannot give you a percentage, it seems to be going down every year, but it is a large majority, i'd think you agree.

Some say there is a social contagion aspect to the trans movement. idk if that's correct, but would explain how so many children *identify* as some other thing these days.

 

... you really thought I was serious about banning heterosexual content under the same standards, didn't you. 

I keep forgetting that critical thinking is dead, and especially unhelpful to the pesudointellectual arzclowns who parrot stuff like this. Of course it's being facetious, nobody would ever do this.

But what you're doing is very easy. You specifically don't *say* "the trans ideology is trendy and fake!!", because that would break ToS and probably get you banned, instead you just introduce the seeds of doubt with "some people say" and "it would explain" as if there's some reasonable doubt that would help you prove this that you weren't aware of, that the other side now has to attack.

I know exactly what you're doing you cretin, and pride month always provides an opportunity. I'm not part of that community myself, but I know this type of rhetoric when I see it.

The reason why more people identify as LGBT is because there is more social acceptance for it, which is the same case with everything in the entirety of human history when it comes to changing social norms, from mustaches to bathing suits, to the way music was written after the church no longer declared it blasphemous or sinful.

Get out of here with that.

Edited June 6 by Kaiga

[C11H22O1]

5 hours ago, carecaplatonico said:

I dont know if i agree with that persecution premisse, unless we're talking about the middle eastern countries, where, contrary to what the other commenter pointed out, i would not like to live. Cannot imagine being in a country where they would force my daughters and wife to cover themselves and submit to all those very particular set of rules.

I can agree that some people were picked on and messed with, in the past, but not in this day and era. I mean, there are gay bars, apps, everything you can think of, if that is persecution..

 

Why a month and not 2? Lets double the awereness? Maybe triple it.

Absolutely nothing else that i know of, gets a month to be celebrated, not even earth, and we all live here.

Maybe the month wouldn't exist if people didn't treat them like trash for years, and they still do, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not happening.

And geez dude you're seriously suggesting segregation? That they should go to places only for them?

I feel bad for people that are part of LGBT+ it's literally just another person trying to live their life and there's people that want to stick their nose on how they should live for no reason, just treat them like any other person, caring so much about who they are sounds like some insecurity issues

[Hyroncore]

1 hour ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

Don’t put words in my mouth. IDK how tf you jumped my refusal to entertain people’s self perception to lying about the Holocaust.

 

I’m not going to share what I’ve seen on a video game forum. That’s crossing a line and will probably net me a warning. So I’m not doing it. The closet I can get is I literally talked to a mother who was bragging about forcing her son to go through changes despite the fact that there was no medical evidence for her to put him through that.

When the actions of the bad apples are enabled by the rest of the community simply due to the “accept everything and don’t ask questions” mentality. Then it becomes a problem.

And your using a single case as you state in this reply to somehow attack the rest of that community is the exact reason pride month should continue to exist. Your other comments say plenty without elaboration and are part of why I responded. 

Your singular experience as unlikely as it was does NOT represent the views of the community as a whole and labeling the community with the actions of a minority would be like saying all police are non violent with the best of intentions. When that CLEARLY isnt the case. America being the most visibly challenged due to George Floyd and other recent issues. You want people to believe that you had an experience of a woman bragging about forcing a change like that youd better back it the hell up. What was it that Carl Sagan said? Extaordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? As valid in science as in other parts of life. You are on a forum for a game berating and responding negatively to something you clearly aren't impacted by and expect US to trust you arent pulling that out your arse? No one should be that arrogant or ignorant to think anyone reading that would just up and believe them particularly considering your rush to anger. Had you perhaps questioned my reference I would have said that was made because people OFTEN conflate free speech with hate and Hitler used that dynamic as others are in the present day to create unwarranted hate. History repeating itself. Instead you feel aggrieved and attacked. Could I have worded it better? Perhaps. But given your past comments I wasn't willing to play careful.

I am sick of the "ITS ALL FREE SPEECH" but how dare people express their own identity bs in the world and you are yet another example of faux victimhood and anger at something that has NO EFFECT ON YOU!. Don't have the foggiest idea why mods left this topic open as there are clearly no benefits gained and while having debate and genuine discourse is always a good thing its clear you and others here in this thread never came into it with good faith.

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, Kaiga said:

The reason why more people identify as LGBT is because there is more social acceptance for it, which is the same case with everything in the entirety of human history when it comes to changing social norms, from mustaches to bathing suits, to the way music was written after the church no longer declared it blasphemous or sinful.

The example I always go to is left-handedness. As recently as the last century it was broadly considered a sign that you were working with malicious forces (or at the very least would cause bad luck), and was stigmatised accordingly (in fact, the term "sinister" originated as a Latin word meaning "on the left side").

Strangely, once society as a whole realised that being left-handed was just a quirk of biology with no actual implications about one's character, and thus it stopped being a stigmatised trait, there was a sudden and sharp uptick in people who publicly admitted to being left-handed.

Now, regardless of what one thinks of the LGBT community, I'm sure that everyone here will agree that it would be absurd to claim that this uptick was due to left-handedness being somehow contagious, or a social trend.

Edited June 6 by Corvid

[Hyroncore]

31 minutes ago, C11H22O1 said:

Maybe the month wouldn't exist if people didn't treat them like trash for years, and they still do, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not happening.

And geez dude you're seriously suggesting segregation? That they should go to places only for them?

I feel bad for people that are part of LGBT+ it's literally just another person trying to live their life and there's people that want to stick their nose on how they should live for no reason, just treat them like any other person, caring so much about who they are sounds like some insecurity issues

You look at issues like this in a political lens as I do and you find progressive ideas like marriage equality and abortion rights almost always split down lines of politics. I feel that politics has a sad way of entering our lives and this is borne out by the brainwashed hate you could see over on steam forums and other social media about Pride. It is sickening to say the least.

As the generational shift towards progressive ideas takes on new found speed those who are unwilling or not interested in changing are fighting harder and harder. The whole "litter trays" in US schools US libraries being forced to ban books that have references to LGBTQI experiences and more are all examples of vile hate created by large powerful conservative groups that really want that country to return to an era of no vote for women men hold the job etc.

THAT is why Pride Month matters. That is why education and media literacy matter and why nutjobs like the guy earlier daring to be angry I compared his remarks to the Holocaust need to realise there is more to what is said than just that kneejerk reaction one often is compelled to express.

Edited June 6 by Hyroncore
Removed potential rule breaking content.

[ToastyGrimlock98]

1 hour ago, Hyroncore said:

And your using a single case as you state in this reply to somehow attack the rest of that community is the exact reason pride month should continue to exist. Your other comments say plenty without elaboration and are part of why I responded. 

Your singular experience as unlikely as it was does NOT represent the views of the community as a whole and labeling the community with the actions of a minority would be like saying all police are non violent with the best of intentions. When that CLEARLY isnt the case. America being the most visibly challenged due to George Floyd and other recent issues. You want people to believe that you had an experience of a woman bragging about forcing a change like that youd better back it the hell up. What was it that Carl Sagan said? Extaordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? As valid in science as in other parts of life. You are on a forum for a game berating and responding negatively to something you clearly aren't impacted by and expect US to trust you arent pulling that out your arse? No one should be that arrogant or ignorant to think anyone reading that would just up and believe them particularly considering your rush to anger. Had you perhaps questioned my reference I would have said that was made because people OFTEN conflate free speech with hate and Hitler used that dynamic as others are in the present day to create unwarranted hate. History repeating itself. Instead you feel aggrieved and attacked. Could I have worded it better? Perhaps. But given your past comments I wasn't willing to play careful.

I am sick of the "ITS ALL FREE SPEECH" but how dare people express their own identity bs in the world and you are yet another example of faux victimhood and anger at something that has NO EFFECT ON YOU!. Don't have the foggiest idea why mods left this topic open as there are clearly no benefits gained and while having debate and genuine discourse is always a good thing its clear you and others here in this thread never came into it with good faith.

I never said to attack the rest of the community. Thats you putting more words in my mouth. I’m saying the community should be under more scrutiny and people should stop crawling out of the woodwork to defend them only literally everything, good or bad.

 

I have no reason to make it up. Be kinda dumb for me to fabricate a story just to give me motivation to not support something.

You’re the one rushing to anger. I’ve been calm this entire time. I’m starting to think all your criticism of me is just you projecting.

I feel like a movement that’s trying to completely change our use of language and perception of biology do actually affect me. As it affects everyone. Which is why it should be presenting itself better than just pulling new things out of the blue, saying they've always existed, and telling everyone they have to validate it. I mean we already saw that they aren’t being 100% honest when they went from having like 70 different pronouns to going “ok, people really couldn’t keep up with that. Let’s just clump them all together into they/them”. Despite the fact that that actually invalidates all the individual identities those pronouns were for.

[Hyroncore]

6 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

I never said to attack the rest of the community. Thats you putting more words in my mouth. I’m saying the community should be under more scrutiny and people should stop crawling out of the woodwork to defend them only literally everything, good or bad.

 

I have no reason to make it up. Be kinda dumb for me to fabricate a story just to give me motivation to not support something.

You’re the one rushing to anger. I’ve been calm this entire time. I’m starting to think all your criticism of me is just you projecting.

I feel like a movement that’s trying to completely change our use of language and perception of biology do actually affect me. As it affects everyone. Which is why it should be presenting itself better than just pulling new things out of the blue, saying they've always existed, and telling everyone they have to validate it. I mean we already saw that they aren’t being 100% honest when they went from having like 70 different pronouns to going “ok, people really couldn’t keep up with that. Let’s just clump them all together into they/them”. Despite the fact that that actually invalidates all the individual identities those pronouns were for.

Your ignorance not withstanding you doth protest too much. You provided an extraordinary claim and get mad when you aren't believed. That on top of that last paragraph? You are crying victim while I allegedly put words in your mouth and then send that into the aether? Sorry but take that faux victimhood elsewhere. You are NOT affected by someone elses child having gender affirming care and the fact you feel otherwise is on you. Also hilarious how its projection when I am stating facts and you are not. You were spraying some allegation and expecting others to trust you. While being aggressively ignorant of what pronouns are to people in the community no less.

Just stop showing your ignorance and dislike of a community. Its clear and inb4 "I have gay friends" or some throw away line. You clearly are uneducated about what hate is and to scream its the communities fault for adapting and changing for those within it just adds further reason to disbelieve you. Also 70 different pronouns? Again another exaggeration by someone who has no clue.

[Hyroncore]

7 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

Yes, you gotta be tolerant otherwise we will not be tolerant and take away your freedom of speech, whoever lesser people who don't share the same sex preference as me

The sheer arrogance of a remark like this is incredibly painful.

If you were genuinely coming to this thread to make a point I would say it failed entirely.

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, Corvid said:

Mothers, fathers, sons and daughters haven't been categorically persecuted for the majority of recorded history, up to and including the present day.

Except that mothers and daughters have specifically been persecuted throughout the ages. Daughters being killed at birth since they werent a son, mothers being punished for having children outside of wedlock, the idea of bastard children, mothers killing their offspring in fear of the previous two mentioned and so on. And every woman is someone elses daughter, so you also have all the S#&$ with witches, or pagan women as the #*!%ing church swept across Europe. Or all women stoned to death in the mid east for simply not following a dress code. All in the name of an imaginary friend at that. Or just the simple part where women have been seen as mentaly inferior to be allowed to vote and all other BS. 

edit: And to be fair, fathers and son are also persecuted constantly in the mid east. Because damn those that dont follow the religious laws and keep tabs on their sisters, daughters, mothers or wifes. Which can also lead to horrible punishments. Does that part of the world not exsist in the minds of people? Lets head down to the local football field for some non-pork corndogs and some stoning!

Yeah clearly no persecution towards mothers and daughters at all. /s

And if categorical persecution is the requirement. Why do we not have a proper Jewish Awareness month? I mean if we are going to talk persecution throughout history I think they would class as a people that should be highlighted beyond the single day the holocaust is brought to light. A tribe nearly wiped from the face of the earth, a tribe that are barely able to defend themselves without people pointing them out as evil wrong doers, in this very moment as I write this at that.

Not to mention when we talk about alternate sexual relationships, which was common and accepted throughout thousands of years of recorded history, way back into the times of ancient egypt, greece and rome. It didnt take a real tumble until again the church rose to power. So practically goes hand in hand with the same persecution of women.

Edited June 6 by Letter13
Let's ease up on the language, eh?

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

-discarded-

I feel like a movement that’s trying to completely change our use of language and perception of biology do actually affect me. 

-discarded-

As far back as the second century, men in medicine believed that women suffered from "wandering womb," a condition that was described as the womb roaming the body in search of fluids to prepare for the monthly menstrual cycle and one risk associated with this condition was suffocation.  This belief was so enduring that when trains became a common form of transportation, women were discouraged from riding them because doctors believed their wombs would fly out of their bodies due to the trains speed.  This was known as a biological "fact" in the medical community for centuries.  Advancements in medical science, completely changed women's healthcare.  

Within our lifetime, we have been able to identify which gene on which chromosome carries the information on sex, SRY on the Y, and how many other genes play a role in development.  The "redefinition" of biology is happening as our understanding of it improves.

Language changes constantly.  If it didn't, we wouldn't be using words the way we do right now.  The word "they" was first used in the 1300's and it made people angrier than today, simply for being a new word.  Beyond dead languages, there is no "pure" language that never evolves.

[ToastyGrimlock98]

1 hour ago, Corvid said:

The example I always go to is left-handedness. As recently as the last century it was broadly considered a sign that you were working with malicious forces (or at the very least would cause bad luck), and was stigmatised accordingly (in fact, the term "sinister" originated as a Latin word meaning "on the left side").

Strangely, once society as a whole realised that being left-handed was just a quirk of biology with no actual implications about one's character, and thus it stopped being a stigmatised trait, there was a sudden and sharp uptick in people who publicly admitted to being left-handed.

Now, regardless of what one thinks of the LGBT community, I'm sure that everyone here will agree that it would be absurd to claim that this uptick was due to left-handedness being somehow contagious, or a social trend.

Except there’s a big difference between being left handed and identifying as something outside your biology. 
The latter has direct ties to sex. Which has direct ties to relationships, which makes it far more complicated.

[Hyroncore]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm not sure what other words to use for something stuck in prejudice 2000 years old. 🤷‍♂️

ignorance and unwarranted stupidity are possible options. Just safer to avoid being moderated as I am sure this is a carefully tracked thread right now. I say that as someone misinterprets my holocaust remark from before as me putting words in their mouth as "I say" not you in said sentence. UNGH >_<

Edited June 6 by Hyroncore

[ToastyGrimlock98]

2 hours ago, Hyroncore said:

Your ignorance not withstanding you doth protest too much. You provided an extraordinary claim and get mad when you aren't believed. That on top of that last paragraph? You are crying victim while I allegedly put words in your mouth and then send that into the aether? Sorry but take that faux victimhood elsewhere. You are NOT affected by someone elses child having gender affirming care and the fact you feel otherwise is on you. Also hilarious how its projection when I am stating facts and you are not. You were spraying some allegation and expecting others to trust you. While being aggressively ignorant of what pronouns are to people in the community no less.

Just stop showing your ignorance and dislike of a community. It’s clear and inb4 "I have gay friends" or some throw away line. You clearly are uneducated about what hate is and to scream its the communities fault for adapting and changing for those within it just adds further reason to disbelieve you. Also 70 different pronouns? Again another exaggeration by someone who has no clue.

 

Not once did I claim I was the victim.

Ok so you don’t care that a child is being put through treatment to affirm the gender that the mother herself claims he doesn’t have? You think we shouldn’t care about the wellbeing of others and whether or not they are receiving the appropriate care? Isn’t that kind of contradictory to part of your movement?

You’ve done nothing but make me out to be something completely different from what I myself am presenting myself as. It’s people like you that make me not what to support the movement. You’re only focused on what YOU want. What YOU think is right. With zero regard for others perspective.  
 

I don’t have any gay friends. But if I did. They’d sure as hell be far better people than you.

[WERElektro]

Late to the party, but....

Spoiler

well, what do we have here..... bunch of bigots getting triggered by some rainbow colored, free (!!!) items.

(the following is directed at the - let's call them "Haters" - who seem to be lurking here as well)

I'll tell you something now:

Been playing WF on and off since 2013 - and pardon me for bringing up a uncomfortable subject - but I reacted equally stupid when they sold some % to Tencent:
Not knowing sh*t, sitting on my butt all day playing video games while there are a million ways to be more productive. I grew up.
You're acting like you "own" this game. lol.
Maybe the GaMeRs who get triggered by rainbow colored items should grow up as well. Go outside. get a job. Learn to play an instrument. idk....
 

"BUT BIOLOGY....."
Do you have the MSc in Biology, Sociology or comparable? no? Well the spare me your unqualified trash talk.

 

I didn't choose who I am. You have , however, chosen to hate me for that. Isn't that sad?

 

Just throwing this in.
 

Edit: thanks for the warning btw - will avoid that cesspool.

Edited June 6 by WERElektro