What is your general opinion on Arcanes?

[Dexmaster]

Posted this same question on Reddit but I wanted to try and get a range of opinions.

I've been away from the game for a while and I thought as a fun project I would create and possibly film a writeup about what it's like to return to the game. One aspect of the game I never really engaged with are Arcanes.

My Zaws and Kitguns have a few Arcanes equipped but they aren't anywhere near max rank, and my collection of Warframe arcanes is even more pathetic. Yet, it seems like they are a staple part of most builds, especially when it comes to exceedingly rare ones like Arcane Energize or Arcane Grace.

My question is, for those who have engaged with this system, do you feel like it works? Is the grind for a max rank Energize really as bad as it seems? Do you think it was worth it? Do you feel like they are a necessary part of certain builds?

[Caerith]

Some arcanes give options for playing differently from the usual cookie cutter builds, but they also risk just becoming the new cookie cutter.  Melee arcanes especially. 

I also see a lot of profiteering around arcanes, which is imo a bad thing for the community.  Eidolon hunts have a reputation for being toxic (because it's people's profits on the line I guess), and when arcane dissolution was introduced people were almost gleeful that it would hurt arcane sellers.  If you look on warframe market at arcane prices, you see people like "looking to buy this maxed out arcane for 60p (will buy up to 999 copies please)" then "looking to sell this same rank 0 arcane for 5p each" and it's like, does anyone use warframe market for anything other than flipping? 

Better than rivens at least. 

[TeaHands]

I thought the grind for them was a bit ridiculous until Vosfor was added. Being able to convert no longer needed Arcanes into something that can get me a chance for Arcanes I don't have was a big plus.

The grind for Max Rank Rare Arcanes is still pretty steep, but we have been getting more Operations lately. Which is how I've grinded out most of my Rare Arcanes.

Also I think they absolutely can make a lot of builds viable.  Arcanes in general have a way of pushing builds across the board into higher leveled content.

[Zaghyr]

Overall they are a good system for upgrading builds. Arcane acquisition has improved over the years making upgrading them easier, expect for all of the eidolon arcanes which are one of the worst farms in the game. They definitely improve build flexibility and options, partially by opening up your mod slots. My only real gripe with Arcanes are how boring/basic most of them are. 95% of them are just stat buffs with no real visual indicators. Even though they have conditions and are temporary, most of them are just a different flavor of mod, and some or most of them could just be mods. To me Arcanes should have been unique enhancements that are interactive and have good visuals. Directionally, arcanes like Exodia Contagion, the Theorem/Residual Arcanes, Melee Vortex, etc.. are what Arcanes should have been. Unique effects that meaningfully alter your build and gameplay that you can't get from mods.

[PublikDomain]

12 minutes ago, Dexmaster said:

My question is, for those who have engaged with this system, do you feel like it works? Is the grind for a max rank Energize really as bad as it seems? Do you think it was worth it? Do you feel like they are a necessary part of certain builds?

Arcanes as a whole tend to be very powerful and can be necessary for certain builds. Even if they're not necessary for a certain build to function, many of them are so powerful that they can significantly increase the strength of a build anyways. For weapons I'd say they tend to be on par with a good Riven.

For Energize specifically, it's worth about 40-50p each right now so if I were in the market to max one I'd rather just grind other things and then buy it. And while it's still a very powerful Arcane, there are more alternative ways to generate energy now than ever. So many in fact that I don't use Energize on most of my mains. Is it worth 1k+ plat? Not really. You can make do without it. Is it worth a few hundred plat to wrap your partial set up? Sure. Do your Eidolons for all your other rewards and then fill out the rest in other ways.

[Dexmaster]

7 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And while it's still a very powerful Arcane, there are more alternative ways to generate energy now than ever.

I've heard this on some other replies, but what are the other ways to generate energy? I lot of the frames I used to play like Xaku were very energy-hungry.

[PublikDomain]

15 minutes ago, Dexmaster said:

I've heard this on some other replies, but what are the other ways to generate energy? I lot of the frames I used to play like Xaku were very energy-hungry.

Just a few examples:

• Dispensary (Protea's Subsumed Ability) + Equilibrium (Mod) or Violet Archon Shards to convert Health pickups to energy. Can also do this with any ability that generates Health orbs, like Lycath's Hunt (Voruna's Subsumed Ability) or Pool Of Life (Trinity's Well of Life Augment). You can also generate Health orbs to use this way using Blood for Life (Parazon Mod).
• Energy Nexus (Mod) and Dreamer's Bond (Aura) or Energy Siphon (Aura) for passive energy generation. Can be combined with Nourish (Grendel's Subsumed Ability) to temporarily increase passive gain by 1.6x (scales with Strength) as well as provide a damage buff. Archon Stretch (Mod) also generates energy over time.
• Dethcube's Energy Generator (Precept Mod) and mods like the Glaxion's upcoming Photon Overcharge can generate energy orbs. Lycath's Hunt generates energy orbs on headshot kills, and Spectrosiphon (an Augment for Gara's Subsumed Ability) generates energy orbs from enemies that die in range. Blood for Energy (Parazon Mod) has a chance to generate energy orbs.
• Zenurik (Focus School) has Energy Pulse and Wellspring effects generate energy and increase energy from orbs.
• Energy pads (Gear) can give on-demand energy.

I'm sure I'm missing quite a few.

Edit: Also, building for Efficiency and Duration to reduce your energy needs in the first place.

Edited June 6 by PublikDomain

[Venus-Venera]

vor 52 Minuten schrieb Dexmaster:

do you feel like it works?

It doesn't just work, it brings extreme advantages... that's why I'm very confused that you're asking such a question... because anyone can test it in a few seconds.

[Dexmaster]

8 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

that's why I'm very confused that you're asking such a question... because anyone can test it in a few seconds.

Bro calm down lmao I'm just asking a harmless question. If you don't like it you don't have to respond.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

Arcanes: mods with special slots. 

 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Dexmaster:

Bro calm down lmao I'm just asking a harmless question. If you don't like it you don't have to respond.

I don't understand your emotional reaction at all. If you're too upset, then it's worth taking a break. Because there's enough content for emotions: comedy films, horror, thriller films, etc.
But this is about discussion and it's not just called "Community General Discussion".

[Numerounius]

Search for stats you want and equip arcane. Or even get it to rank 5 if you don't have it yet. Sometimes I'll peruse what arcanes there are since this doesn't always work like for steadfast or the channeled arcanes then it will be in my head so I'll be reminded when I go to updating my builds again.

I'm not the type of person who sees how strong melee influence is if you want to hyper-build for it. But I will equip arcane reaper for more tank with an exalted weapon or parkour arcanes for a speed build.

[Joezone619]

90% of them are pointless, as players will only gravitate to the 10% that actually help.

[(PSN)Unstar]

11 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

I don't understand your emotional reaction at all.

I'm guessing you don't realize it, but the precise way you phrase your comments often reads as hostile/aggressive to a native English speaker.  I have no idea whether that is your intention, but that's how it can come across.  Assuming it's not your intention, hopefully this can serve as the friendly, constructive feedback it's intended to be.

(And if that's something you could use a hand with for any reason, I'd be happy to help you with it)

[Voltage]

They're just another mod slot with a different shape in the UI at this point.

[PR1D3]

I don't know if I want to truly say Arcanes do become somewhat necessary in higher levels, but quite frankly the extent they open up build potential shouldn't be understated. I will say that large swaths of the community don't actually know how to make builds that cause them to state problems that only exist due to their own ignorance and they misvalue gear also due to said ignorance. I had farmed for Energize during Scarlett Spear (RIP Event, people still don't understand how great you were and could had been for the wider game) and I used it for a while. Now? I really don't have any build that uses it. Most of the time I'm good through Shards, sometimes through the odd Rage capable WFs. If you do question whether or not Energize is some kind of pinnacle end all, be all arcane that will be the deciding factor on whether or not you will fail its not. I know people hype it up as that. It's not. Don't worry about it. Especially once you get into Steel Path and the Entrati Labs, you will unlock arcanes. Work with what you got. Use efficiency mods, make sacrifices. People are going to tell you that only 1 or 2 are useful. Ignore them. They don't know what they're talking about. Or in some cases the youtuber they're copying. There are arcanes that just have niche uses that you won't be able to horribly exploit to give you an insanely, overinflated KPS.

[PR1D3]

-ignore. somehow when i posted the page crashed on me and duplicated my post.-

Edited June 6 by PR1D3

[Tiltskillet]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I have no idea whether that is your intention

[Venus-Venera]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Unstar:

I'm guessing you don't realize it, but the precise way you phrase your comments often reads as hostile/aggressive to a native English speaker.

that's not true at all. please don't present the whole thing in such a mean and false way.

besides, I don't want to have anything to do with someone who intentionally writes such mean and lying things about me!

please think about it seriously and think again seriously and honestly about what you want to achieve with the provocation...

what you are doing is definitely very unhealthy for the discussion and you seem to be doing it intentionally. why do you want to intentionally destroy the discussion? nobody wins from it...

[(PSN)Unstar]

1 hour ago, Dexmaster said:

My question is, for those who have engaged with this system, do you feel like it works?....Do you feel like they are a necessary part of certain builds?

After having used them for a few years, I think the best way to summarize Arcanes is that they are just a different kind of mod.  They don't cost capacity and have to be leveled differently (combining instead of endo), but other than that they are just mods.  And once you realize that, I think it really helps your buildcraft, because you can think of them less like this totally alien thing and more like Aura mods; they're a special mod that can go in some slots and not others.  Both mod slots and arcane slots can be used to meet your build goals, and each kind of slot is competing with a different set of mods for your attention.

For example, let's say you're trying to increase your Duration.  You use Primed Continuity and Narrow Minded but you still want more Duration.  You could go with Constitution to get 28% more...but you could also use Molt Efficiency to give you 36% more as long as you have shields.  And if you're playing a frame with Overguard or a Shield tank with Adaptation, you can probably depend on your shields being up, making Molt Efficiency a better choice for your Duration needs.  Similarly, you could try to address your energy sustainability needs by spending a mod slot on Equilibrium, or you could instead spend an arcane slot on Arcane Energize.  Or you could skip them both and use Zenurik, or the Grimoire with the Xata mod.  Because yeah, just like mod slots and arcane slots and aura slots, your School and your Secondary are also slots that you can spend to meet your goals.  Everything you can change is a slot, and the more you play around with things like Arcanes, the more you'll just see them as another tool in your arsenal that can be min-maxed to meet your goals.

 

1 hour ago, Dexmaster said:

Is the grind for a max rank Energize really as bad as it seems?  Do you think it was worth it?

Personally, I dislike Eidelons, so I can't speak to that grind.  There was a temporary event a few years ago called Operation: Orphix Venom where players could gain currency during the event and then spend them to buy Arcanes.  I went hard and got the Arcanes that I most wanted, including Energize.  For me personally, I think it was worth it, because the Arcanes I accumulated have opened up some great build possibilities for me.

There's a new event coming up in a few weeks that will have a similar system, so if you end up liking that event, that would be another way to get Arcanes.

That said, you no longer need Energize.  I've dropped it from a lot of my builds because there are just so many different ways to build a sustainable energy economy, and sometimes Energize isn't the best way.  Make no mistake, it's an absolutely great Arcane and it's one of my go-to Arcanes if nothing else stands out for a build, but there are so many other viable options that I can comfortably say you don't need it.  Want?  Sure.  But not need.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Helpful. I run mostly Aegis and Grace for the passive nicety of them. Slotting Equilibrium makes Arcane Energize seem overpriced and unnecessary. The recently introduced dust system with the Sanctum Anatomica update has made every arcane more accessible. 

Eidolon hunts feel retired beyond the 7k nightwave reward once a season.

 

[Pakaku]

Eidolon hunting made arcanes feel pretentious back in the earlier days, so I didn’t bother getting into it. These days I still don’t really go out of my way to farm anything unless there’s an easy dedicated farm (Scarlet Spear, Orphix Venom, Gargoyle’s Cry) or if they just drop so often that I end up picking them up incidentally (such as on the Zariman, and unfortunately Deimos)

I have exactly one arcane that I deliberately went out of my way to max out, Arcane Avenger, and I am more than satisfied

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

They're amazing. Recently I put both arcane Rise and the one that gives primary damage on headshot kill on the same frame lol. 

That's 150 damage on reload and also 150 damage on headshot kill. 

Great for felarx on SP Demolysts. Or even my other build which is a 280 range Ensnare Nyx with a Kuva Chakurr. 

Arcanes give people something to grind for and also build diversity to make your melee, primary, secondary, or frame way better, mixing and matching with shards, mods, rivens, ally abilities etc.

[ominumi]

Arcane isn't needed to complete the content. Arcane isn't even needed to clear Steel Path starchart. I'm Legendary Rank 4, it's just an open spot I through something generic in. I just wish we get arcane like Peculiar Bloom. Something non combat type.

Edited June 6 by ominumi

[(PSN)Unstar]

1 hour ago, Venus-Venera said:

that's not true at all. please don't present the whole thing in such a mean and false way.

besides, I don't want to have anything to do with someone who intentionally writes such mean and lying things about me!

please think about it seriously and think again seriously and honestly about what you want to achieve with the provocation...

what you are doing is definitely very unhealthy for the discussion and you seem to be doing it intentionally. why do you want to intentionally destroy the discussion? nobody wins from it...

First off, I'm genuinely sorry if my comment came across as a provocation; that is the exact opposite of what I intended.  Communication is complex, and it sucks when our genuine attempts at expressing good intentions are interpreted as negative.  It sounds like that's something we may have in common! ^^;

Let me tell you a story that will hopefully help clear up this misunderstanding:

When I was younger, a co-worker dropped by my desk to talk about a work project.  After they left, a friend who sat next to me told me, "I'm guessing you don't realize this, but you sounded pretty rude back there."  And I was mortified, because I don't want to be rude to anyone; I want people to know that I genuinely care about them.

So I talked to my friend, and they explained how aspects of my phrasing, my tone of voice, and my body language could be interpreted as rude in the context of that conversation.  And it sucked to hear...but I was so glad I heard it.  Because knowing what was giving people a negative impression of me allowed me to make changes to the way I communicated.  And the result was that the interactions I shared with others became more positive, because my communication no longer contained the specific aspects that were being interpreted as hostile.  I'm extremely grateful to my friend for helping me in this way.  (and to be clear, that didn't solve all my communication issues; like everyone, I am still a work in progress)

What my friend did for me back then is what I want to do for you now.  You said you didn't understand why you received an emotional reaction, and I'd like to help you better understand that...especially because your reply to me makes it seem like you genuinely want to have positive, conflict-free discussions with others. If people are misunderstanding you, that gets in the way of your goal.  Thankfully, there are plenty of strategies to help mitigate misunderstandings.

To be clear, none of this is a criticism of you as a person.  Every one of us makes mistakes and is part of misunderstandings, and that doesn't make us bad in any way.  Communications is incredibly complex.

Anyway, if you would like a hand with that, I'd be happy to help.  If not, that's fair, too.  I'll leave the ball in your court; I just hope I've been able to communicate that I mean all of this in a friendly and respectful way.