Jade is making me and a lot of other people uncomfortable

[Johnprofit]

2 minutes ago, Vaalyah said:

@Johnprofit I think that, if people showed problems with X in the game and the fix is nothing complicated (as removing some polygons from a 3D model), yes, DE would be amazing to help the vast majority of people possible enjoyining the game. Why not? And yes, community should support its members. Offering the chance to play with another skin doesn't spoil the game-experience for those without problems that can enjoy the basic one.

What I disagree is people withouth any clinical knowledge going around internet trying to impose their own ignorant point of view on other people' clinical issues. Professionists exist for a reason. And it takes 10 years to become a doctor.

I am still waiting to hear the answer as to "why something that doesn't impact you in any way (like the availability of a different model for people that don't want to play with Jade as she is now) is so triggering to you?" from a couple of angry-posters in this thread ^^

I see. Interesting. 

Thanks!

[Varzin13]

10 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

It "feels weird" because you want it to.

That's not how feelings work, if it was I'd choose to feel happy and unbothered all the time. People can't control what makes them uncomfortable only how they act in response. It doesn't bother me but I can understand why some would be made uneasy by the image of a pregnant-looking woman in combat, clearly it's not a small group. In this instance I don't see any harm in making the baby bulge togglable.

[RichardKam]

6小时前 , Kaiga 说:

You also didn't answer the question.

What other game, actually for that matter, modern media at all features prominently pregnant protagonists in this kind of killing machine role that the warframes serve? 

 

Not exactly as a killing machine, but Catherine Zeta Jones in Traffic took over the drug dealing business, hired hitman twice, and negotiated with a drug lord in Mexico alone, in order to get his husband out of jail and to keep her family alive, while being pregnant.

[Akuarius]

Dude, don't ever play Wolfenstein 2 then.

[Tsukinoki]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

As I asked in another thread. Do the people that think playable Jade is prego also think that her 4th skill is Jade bombarbing enemies by squirting out burning fetuses or new borns at the enemy? I'd be totally down for that, since that would be some demonic levels of biological warfare and hilarious as #*!%!

That sounds like some Tyranid level bio-weaponry, and I would be all for that.

It also fits the infested as well...though now that I think about it the infested already kinda do this with Brood Mothers and their Maggots which are heavily implied to be newborn infested bio-forms that immediately attack non-infested upon being born.

[Aerikx]

On 2024-06-30 at 8:31 AM, Joezone619 said:

Not to mention helminth...

This was the one and only time where I myself was actually made uncomfortable. Which is saying something. 

I made a long post about it in a different thread but to keep it blunt. After building my first Jade, I immediately fed her to Helminth, in which case I froze at the "Confirm" prompt, cause my mind immediately went:

"So Helminth's devouring the damn kid too huh?" 

Like, damn that's dark. Even for me. The thought of the gestating kid be chewed up and absorbed by Helminth was a certified eye opening experience. (Jade is OBVIOUSLY past the Third Trimester, so Helminth'ing her felt and still feels bad.)

Yeah, it's a game, and obviously I pulled the trigger and fed my ravenous Helminth. But it did give me pause. 

Afterwards I ended up thinking: "If 'I' had a 'Uh...' moment, what will others (those with hearts) think on this?" 

Hell, even the corpus (in game) hesitated and ultimately lowered their arms instead of blasting the kid out of Stalker's arms. (Which a real military force would have done without hesitation.)

But us Tenno?

Tenno: "Ayo, Helminth. Got you a two for one special." 

Now that I'm more used/desensitized to her model, The logical part of me feels cheated.

My mind has gone from: "It's just a game. Stop overthinking it." To "Why don't we get a second Helminth option from subsuming Jade?"

Quote

Tangent:

I suggest the Second Aura slot (which seems to be implied to be from the kid), allowing us to put a 2nd Aura on every frame. 

She has unique animations: Idle, Dodge, running, to account for her condition. So it's a part of her design...might as well. 

That all said...

The lack of any response to the outcry and requests for an alternate model has me concerned/alarmed tbh. As no one appears to be asking for a retcon, or quest removal, etc. Folks just want a toggle. (Kind of like how some games have a Spider toggle.)

Unfortunately this reminds me of the Nidus Phryke Shoulder eyeballs controversy.

(IE: Trypophobia)

Folks asked for a toggle back then, but that fell on deaf ears. Thankfully there were(and now are) plenty of arm armor covers them up so...I guess folks adapted. 

But there are  no attachments that can ghetto-fix Jade's issue. 

My problem now is that as I have started leveling her, I'm growing increasingly desensitized, and my dark mind starts feeling like this is missed opportunity to have some dark fun.

Part of me is like: "Screw it, make this part of her kit."

The dark side of my mind goes:

- Unique death animations for her.

(Yes, my mind immediately thinks to a certain Dead Space Necromorph's death animation where it flops over and bursts open.)

- Cheat Death/ Death State mode where when she's downed, the kid breaks free and has a limited amount of time to kill enemies in order to revive her (Ala: Sevagoth's Shadow: Give the kid half Stalker's abilities and half of Jade's and let the little badass get to work.) 

I might just be taking copium, but that kind of gameplay makes me feel more at peace with the situation. 

Edit:

@SneakyErvin

Quote

As I asked in another thread. Do the people that think playable Jade is prego also think that her 4th skill is Jade bombarbing enemies by squirting out burning fetuses or new borns at the enemy? I'd be totally down for that, since that would be some demonic levels of biological warfare and hilarious as #*!%!

"I am not the mother of mercy! Behold my flaming wrath and destruction!"

the screeching sound of a new born is heard as a ball of fire is propelled across the battlefield, hitting the center of the enemy squad, sending them flying as shrapnell from debrees, flesh and umbilical cords tear through their armors and flesh, eventually engulfing them in a blazing inferno (that for some reason smells like pork chops).

.....I want this. I want this so damn bad.

(Mobile browser messed up the quote so I had to ping you. Sorry.)

Edited Monday at 03:26 PM by Aerikx
Fixed an Autocorrect Typo that was bugging me.

[Xycelium]

9 hours ago, Kaiga said:

Then why do her idle animations cradle her not-pregnant belly and stand like she's pregnant, hold her guns around it like she's still pregnant, and rub her middle like she's still pregnant.

Because that's been the case for every single Warframe who has a given aesthetic or theme. Reminder that any Warframe can also use her Noble animations, and Jade can use any other Warframe's idle animations as well. Like this complaint is only telling me that you should perhaps change the idle animation yourself. It is however giving me a great idea to get her idle animations and place them on some masculine Warframes.

10 hours ago, Kaiga said:

Come on now, they're obviously selling this as pregnant-frame, which imo is whack and perfectly allowed to be criticized from a design standpoint.

I don't think you understand when I said she *literally* isn't pregnant. I was referring to how she wasn't carrying a baby or going into labor anytime soon. Yes, she obviously has the aesthetics and design of such, but the issue with that has to come from your critique, which so far you've only been able to point out that:

10 hours ago, Kaiga said:

This is a game about esthetics. You're supposed to be a cool space ninja frame. Monsters? Horrors? Sure. But the frames are not humans for a reason. I am surrounded by pregnant women rubbing their wombs in the relay, in the game about being a space ninja. Hello? Did anyone even remotely artpass or QC this idea with actual humans?

And you see, this is quite hypocritical in my opinion because this game has expanded its moniker for "ninjas" a long time ago to the point where, as some people have pointed out, pirates and gunslingers have been added to the list; not to mention warriors of rock and stone, of speed and weight, of feral and primal technique, to even masters of the different elements. None of these are specifically connected to ninjas, and yet they have just been accepted from the community as a part of the Tenno.

Also, I decided to highlight that one particular sentence from you, since it feels like you quite literally cannot see Jade as anything else but a pregnant woman, which in my opinion is a bit odd since wouldn't that mean you just see every Warframe as a real life counterpart to their own design and theme? That must be a terrible way to want to play, since I can just imagine the inner rage culminating as you see multiple "non-ninjas" move around and execute hundreds of enemy of troops in a non-ninja fashion. Let alone a pregnant woman doing all of that.

And to note your complaint about it passing quality control and whatnot, have you considered one thing? That Warframes tell a tale about their previous human counterparts and the stories that they experienced during both their conversion under Orokin control and their current purpose as a refabricated Warframe? As I said in my first post in this thread; it would be harsh to assume that human Jade would have expected to have been chosen for Warframe conversion by the time that she was pregnant with Sorren's child. Jade is a story about times of labor and life being interrupted by governments and states' will. Gee, I wonder if there happens to be anything like that in real life one could connect that to.

10 hours ago, Kaiga said:

what, are we getting wheelchair frame next? Elderly frame next? A frame for every possible mundane reality that the point of a video game is to escape from?

And on that topic, why are people so afraid about real life experiences being expressed through mediums like video games? Like I feel like that's a late thing to complain about in a game like this considering that the Corpus are quite literally an analogy for the destructive nature of capitalism but still.

This feels like more or so a problem with you being unable to express creativity through the means of story telling and it being done properly. Like hell, I would love to see a Warframe with a mobility-based disability be expressed through Warframe; why not? An elderly Warframe? Sure! Like I'm sorry buddy but if you wanted to escape 'mundane reality' then maybe Warframe isn't the game for you.

Anyway, time to help the Ostron with their stronghold that's being constantly attacked and threatened by the Grineer... man these things just keep on sounding so familiar and I wonder why.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Il y a 1 heure, Vaalyah a dit :

if people showed problems with X in the game and the fix is nothing complicated (as removing some polygons from a 3D model), yes, DE would be amazing to help the vast majority of people possible enjoyining the game. Why not?

Lore implications. Some people would want Nezha's Universal Ring removed off his back for cosmetic purposes, but that would violate the theme and inspirations regarding the warframe.

Through the sacrifice quest you are met with the following revelation : (SPOILER ALERT, DO NOT OPEN THE SPOILER IF YOU HAVE NOT DONE "THE SACRIFICE" QUEST!)

Révélation

Warframes are bodies of people (or other, potentially), living (or dead, potentially), which are transformed because of the Helminth strain under the orders of Ballas (so far all of the Warframes were created under his command).

Removing some polygons from a 3D model may be "easy", but that also means you make the lore a little less coherent.

Things that are a key signature of a Warframe usually will stay across the various skins, easiest examples being Grendel's mouth on his torso, Dagath having a hole somewhere in her head, Lavos having vials of various liquids, Limbo's magic hats, Nova's "exhaust pipes", Nezha's Universal Ring, Wukong's Tail, Wisp's lack of feet... it's all features that make them distinguishable, and Jade is not any different in that regard.

 

I'm not aware of a phobia for magic hats, but maybe someone out there exists and would be just terrified to see Limbo. Still doesn't mean we have to make a hatless limbo just for this person, I'm not denying your phobia, I just think it's not in DE's best interest to go allout inclusive for the sake of a minority, no matter which, and risk missing the main target audience mark. Ultimately, if they do sell the product in good quantity, they have achieved their goals.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

5 minutes ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Lore implications. Some people would want Nezha's Universal Ring removed off his back for cosmetic purposes, but that would violate the theme and inspirations regarding the warframe.

 

It be cool of you could fold the ring up like you can with glaive but if you get me, but you’re right his ring is tied to his lore.

Edited Monday at 03:45 PM by (PSN)FrDiabloFr

[Vaalyah]

8 minutes ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

and risk missing the main target audience mark

Again: how it is possible that allowing some to use a different skin WHILE EVERYONE ELSE CAN USE THE NORMAL ONE will "miss the main target audience mark"? Others can still use the standard one.

Guys, this is a game. You want lore? Stick to normal skin. You are here for fashion frame? Grab a skin you like more.

I still don't see the point here. And I frankly can't see why some of you are so combative about this topic. This thread is "DE, I have this problem. Mind finding a solution?". It's on DE to say yes or no, not to some people to try to persuade me why I should not be bothered. Guys, DE is not coming to YOU asking for the money to pay the 3D modeler to remove that part of a skin. I swear.

[(PSN)Unstar]

On 2024-06-30 at 6:25 AM, Golden_Tatsuo said:

I get that its just a glowing orb in her stomach but theres something deeply unsettling about going into battle with a visibly pregnant warframe (to me, at least). 

Personally, I would recommend critically interrogating this feeling.  You've recognized that you're feeling unsettled, but why?  If you don't know why you feel the way you do, how can you know whether you're tapping into something reasonable versus jumping at shadows?

Sometimes being uncomfortable can give us helpful insight, but sometimes it can lead us astray, because feelings aren't always logical.  I highly recommend doing your due diligence so you can learn to what degree this feeling is rational.  There's something valuable for you to learn here, and once you do you'll be better for it.

[Digital_Malz]

On 2024-06-28 at 7:00 PM, 3xt1inct said:

I get that this can cause problems, but if DE needed to change everything that has to do with a phobia, the game would simply not exist as there is something like heliophobia (fear of the sun) or hydrophobia (fear of water) and even aerophobia (fear of flying). These three fears combined, rule out all of railjack, all of archwing, lots of duviri, the earth tileset, PoE and the uranus tileset. It is a hard reality check, but phobia's are as much part of life as the thing the fear stems from. It sucks that you have this phobia, but yeah unfortunately that means you will be excluded from some experiences, unless you are willing to put the phobia aside and go for it.

I know that is easier said than done, but i have an associative fear of needles (yes clinical diagnosis), still i have to get my vaccinations, have to go donate blood, etc., it took a lot of therapy and i still feel anxious almost every time, even though it has gotten a lot better. I used to even feel anxious and got panic attacks just spotting a needle, fortunately that is no longer the case and i can finally learn how to sew. I hope you can work through your phobia in a way.

I get your point, but let me ask you something: how removing the Jade’s belly would in anyway make the game unplayable? I totally understand the sun because of heliophobia would be a little complicated. But how stubborn must DE be to simply kept from doing as simple as removing that pregnant belly? How would this change gameplay? After all, the pregnant Jade was the one in the story, not the “Jades” we built in our foundries, right? My Jade is pregnant of the Holy Spirit 🤣.

[sorryh]

I am confused why people treat "options and toggles" equal to "removal"
like with all due respect, all people opposing this thread thus far has arguments that makes close to no sense in my personal and honest opinion. If not some just say "no" lol
or some provide literal unlicensed psychological analysis that's unasked for when the subject is for options than how to deal with their phobia. 

Pardon me but it just sounds like "yah but this is how you should and will play, just accept it and play with it, don't ask for anything, shush."

it makes perfect sense to me if people were requesting in the mindset of "i hate this, remove this to be inaccessible for everyone just because I don't like it"
then sure, I get it. Stop this person and let him know he has no right to dictate how other people should experience the game or stripe the experience from others.

None should support anyone that feels entitled enough to dictate on other people creation to remove content because it does not align if their personal taste and liking. To be tailored around them exclusively and excluding everyone else that's not sharing their taste.

But asking for options that people can select and customize their own separate experience feels like it's treated like some very taboo subject. It's really strange and very odd in my opinion.


Optional choices and selections to chose to go avoid undesired content while leaving everything intact for those that have no issues with it =/= Removing content for everyone due to it being undesired by a group of people or someone out there.

So far I see people treating this or similar posts like it's automatically leaning towards the right side of this 👆

2 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Some people would want Nezha's Universal Ring removed off his back for cosmetic purposes, but that would violate the theme and inspirations regarding the warframe.

Personally I would see this being a valid argument in my point of view if people asking for nezha's universal ring to be removed.
Like removed altogether that even those who like it can't have it anymore. That is terrible and indeed goes against the creative direction the developers and designers probably where going for. I would be upset too even if I don't like the ring. 


However, what's wrong with a separate options tho? separate skin or a toggle that removes the ring that other people select? 
No offense but you made it sound like "no! you can't remove the ring on the warframe you farmed and own as well customized personally in the settings based on options you personally selected around your liking, it goes against the design and concept of it" you see how odd that sounds to me?

Having options sounds like a perfect solution for both sides being happy. Those that like it, keeps it, Those that don't, have an option in the settings to hide it. It only affects their own personal experience and not each other.


What's opposing the idea of options, toggles and extra settings to chose? I am yet to see a single good strong argument against it. It just means more content and customization. and it's optional for those who want to use. If it's easy or not easy to add or to be implemented is up to the developers to decide. But like the mere action of "asking" seems the issue here.
A lot feels like they approach it as if it is a threat to lose accessibility to content.
From my point of view it just leans way more towards "no, stop complaining. there is only one way you should experience this. don't ask for options. play it like the rest of us and stop being bothered by it. Face your fears. Your phobia sounds like a "You" problem and it's all in your head" sort of impression to me when asking for options seems painfully unharmful to anyone's personal experience with the game.

We are only in the realm of asking here and it feels like you are not allowed to, nor express yourself for anything lol
DE in the end is what gets to decide if they want to or not.


 

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 15 horas, Kaiga dijo:

Then why do her idle animations cradle her not-pregnant belly and stand like she's pregnant, hold her guns around it like she's still pregnant, and rub her middle like she's still pregnant.

Come on now, they're obviously selling this as pregnant-frame, which imo is whack and perfectly allowed to be criticized from a design standpoint.

This is a game about esthetics. You're supposed to be a cool space ninja frame. Monsters? Horrors? Sure. But the frames are not humans for a reason. I am surrounded by pregnant women rubbing their wombs in the relay, in the game about being a space ninja. Hello? Did anyone even remotely artpass or QC this idea with actual humans?

You cant just turn devstream memes and community jokes into major part of the warframe lore and gameplay. People will stop taking it seriously and stop caring, what, are we getting wheelchair frame next? Elderly frame next? A frame for every possible mundane reality that the point of a video game is to escape from?

This is ridiculous, and should be allowed to be called as such.

You sound like someone who has never played Warframe, because a lot of the things you question have been in the game for years.

[Kaiga]

20 minutes ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

You sound like someone who has never played Warframe, because a lot of the things you question have been in the game for years.

I'm LR4, and have been around for years. Of all the designs, weird looking deluxes that have come out, this one especially for a base frame is just plain weird, man. 

[TsukuyomiNoGeki]

I wouldn't care less about jade if her animations were so overly exaggerated over her belly.

Rubbing and all is ok.

But every time I see her bend backwards with her belly high in the sky with a 360 spin on her idle, I'm like "???"

I thought she was primarily an angelic Warframe.

[3xt1inct]

3 hours ago, Digital_Malz said:

I get your point, but let me ask you something: how removing the Jade’s belly would in anyway make the game unplayable? I totally understand the sun because of heliophobia would be a little complicated. But how stubborn must DE be to simply kept from doing as simple as removing that pregnant belly? How would this change gameplay? After all, the pregnant Jade was the one in the story, not the “Jades” we built in our foundries, right? My Jade is pregnant of the Holy Spirit 🤣.

read next comment, was playing devil's advocate.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

17 hours ago, WanderingJoe said:

That was a very well thought out and expressed opinion Confuzzled. 

 

I'm gonna be honest, I don't have a complicated reason myself. I just don't want to play as a pregnant warframe and my friends also think this is wierd. I dont think people feelings have to be super deep on this but more power to them if they are. Our reasons behind our opinions are our own, varied as they may be. Whether from fears or trauma to personal preference, this is part of the community saying they want the same thing: the option to make our own choice on Jade..

 

Thank you WanderingJoe. I appreciate your sentiment.

I think your stance is very valid and fair. I don't disagree with you, I would only add that contextually, for practical value, its important to remember such variables.

Like sets say hypothetically you had a lot of money, and you felt really strongly about this, and you hired a Lobbyist group, for the express purpose of influencing and pressuring DE to implement the change you want? Arguments and barriers aren't necessarily just there to deter you (though from some parties they can be), but they may also be realities to acknowledge and understand, expressly so they can be overcome. 

For example, historically, DE has made some pretty big decisions, and then due to feedback/negative feedback, altered their plans or changed them significantly with time. That also being said, the Forums, Subreddit, Social Media, sees hundreds to thousands of criticisms, objections, suggestions, proposals weekly, how many of those are implemented? 

So which changes are implemented and why, and when, and how? Well, sometimes the reasons can be different, but if enough people want change, change will probably happen. Like if we look at Heirloom Skins, Regal Aya. Granted the changes didn't address every single issue, criticism, negative feedback, objection etc. 

So if people would rather be vague about their reasons, thats totally fair, valid, and they shouldn't, don't have to justify such feelings, but... Unless there are a lot of people with such an issue, it might actually be relevant. Shotgun Barrage for example was changed because its former name, had certain... I mean there are Special Purpose Automatic Shotgun's, but thats not the acronym used. I personally don't know enough about when, why, how the wording started to deviate, if at all, or whether there is some other naming convention I am unaware of. The amount of people I saw complaining/criticising about that shotgun mod though? Well none actually, but I can see why DE did change it after being asked about it by a player. Mind you thats a pretty easy change to make (I assume). 

If there was someone who was seriously and actually bothered, by the idea of Harrow having abilities that inflict self harm. Since to them, Harrow could be argued to be Rell, an autistic, vulnerable teenager, who was ostracised, and now we the player are forcing them to commit frequent self harm, just to buff others? Would you consider that valid or invalid? If you consider it valid, then do you think that DE should remove that animation from the game? Also, if that person felt uncomfortable, should they make Rell "neurotypical"? 

See to myself, that individuals issues are valid, but... I don't necessarily think the game should accomodate their every issue. I don't think the idea is that we are meant to interpret Harrow as Rell, and that their ability is glorifying, excusing, or endorsing that vulnerable, Autistic teens, should engage in self harm for the benefit of others. I think thats an inaccurate interpretation. Peoples issues, discomfort, trauma can be valid but also not necessarily reflective of reality or a correct or accurate understanding of events, sequences, art, story, and importantly, other peoples experiences, ideas, meaning, trauma, comfort, issues. For some, Rell having autism was nice, a positive thing. Doesn't invalidate the hypothetical individual I made up, so its about context. 

See some can be dismissive, because they could say "well its just one person", or its just "100 people", but its usually the context that is relevant as well. Like if only 100 people complained about the Heirlooms, would they have been changed? Probably not, but if 100 people pointed out that an upcoming Warframe, was actually unintentionally a pretty well know derogatory slur in most of Asia... Thing is, far far more than 100 people had issues with Heirlooms, much much more. So then you also have to consider the ramifications of a toggle, as well.

Lets say hypothetically DE released a statement like follows "We have seen players ask us if a toggle for Jade could be implemented, because some are uncomfortable with her design. We acknowledge and sympathise with some players discomfort with the Jade design, and we understand that some players may have discomfort and trauma around pregnancy, miscarriage, birth and loss. We acknowledge and sympathise with such players. Here at DE, themes of Motherhood, Children, nurturing are very important to us, and have persisted through the game over the years. As of yet, their are no plans for a toggle, as we feel like it undermines the artistic merit of the characters design, and thematic and story intent behind the character. Real people don't come with a pregnancy toggle, Jade's design is symbolic, and whilst we can sympathise with peoples trauma, we think the option to "hide" that region of her body, would send the wrong message, and that the appearance of a pregnant persons belly should be a source of shame, to be hidden or toggled. Even though we also understand that to some, its more about their own personal trauma, its still an idea and point we feel strongly about, and we hope you understand. We may reconsider our stance in the future though". 

For some, that probably wont be good enough. For some, just the acknowledgement might be nice. Ultimately how many will quit though? Like thats a metric. How strongly do some people actually feel? Its it a sort of fleeting discomfort thats only temporary, perhaps because pregnancy, and trauma around pregnancy is so relatively rare in media, fiction, even less so in video games in general. Is it the sort of thing that for some, its about burning bridges and quitting a game permanently over? 

To go back to the hypothetical Lobbyist though, I would say that people who want this toggle? You can wait, and it might happen, but it also might not happen. If you want it to happen? You may want more numbers. Like there is a petition I am aware of, the last time I checked, it only had 90 something people? Arguments from vehemence, insistence, aren't as compelling as some people think they are. 10 people in a thread agreeing with each other week to week... Numbers don't necessarily make a thing more or less valid, but it can influence change. Thing is, its also an uphill battle, the Warframe subreddit didn't really have that much negative reaction to Jade's design or as much discomfort around it. Not when comparing to other big polarising issues where DE have made changes (though again, other variables to consider). 

So the alternative, in lack of numbers? Will probably have to be the reasoning and the "moral/ethical" arguments. Except in this situation, there are opposing arguments too, so it gets a little grey.  

Best I can personally think of right now, is that maybe those with strong objections (or those with a strong desire for a toggle), create a group PM, discuss the finer particulars of what sort of toggle you might want. Maybe, if you can? If one of you, is artistically talented, draw up a concept design? Of what a toggle could be, look like. Then post it emphasising the personal discretion part, choice etc, and maybe also try messaging some at DE directly about it. Maybe even the design could feature a Sirius/Orion star design pattern, like its a Jade that no longer seems visibility pregnant, but still carries a lot of the symbolism and story of the original with our Warframe version. Thats just a random off the cuff idea. That being said, my best idea, may not be the best idea, I am relatively neutral. I personally aren't uncomfortable with any aspect of Jade, but I also wouldn't be against or uncomfortable with a toggle either, and I think at the very least its fine to ask for one. I just also don't necessarily think DE will definitely do one. 

My apologises my post is so long, and I hope it didn't come across as argumentative or insulting in anyway. I mostly just like to explain and untangle context so peoples agreements and disagreements can be more neutral and less tense or heated. I sympathise with those that want a toggle, for those that feel strongly about it, a petition is a good idea, but you may also want to reach out to each other and come up with some other plans too. 

All the best to you, hope you have a great week. 

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Il y a 9 heures, Vaalyah a dit :

Guys, this is a game. You want lore? Stick to normal skin. You are here for fashion frame? Grab a skin you like more.

Except skins do not remove the visual identity of a Warframe. Grendel has alternative skins, still with a mouth on the belly, Nezha skins all have the Universal Ring, Wisp has no feet no matter the skin, everything I've listed in my first comment follows that same rule, even Dagath who only has a helmet skin also follows this rule by having a different looking hole to the head.

Il y a 9 heures, Vaalyah a dit :

I still don't see the point here. And I frankly can't see why some of you are so combative about this topic. This thread is "DE, I have this problem. Mind finding a solution?". It's on DE to say yes or no, not to some people to try to persuade me why I should not be bothered. Guys, DE is not coming to YOU asking for the money to pay the 3D modeler to remove that part of a skin. I swear.

If you're not concerned about other people's criticism, this is probably not the way to proceed. If all you care about is DE's opinion, just ask them directly, direct messages or tickets to the support, idk. The point of a forum is to discuss about things and gathering opinions, not to flatter your ego when somebody likes your post or get upset when someone questions the logic behind it. Ain't me telling you to not be bothered, all I've posted about was lore and how it's translated not just in some junk text hidden whoever cares where, but physically on frames.

That being said, it's not the end of the world if you can't / don't want to play Jade for any reason, Warframe's character roaster is large enough to have everything you like, hate, are scared of, or even feel indifferent about. Some people have phobias about illnesses and stuff that would remind them about bubonic plague or whatever, they're probably not playing Nidus, and that's fine.

Tolerance is also coming to terms with things that do not please you but that you cannot change, and not wanting to see it destroyed.

 

Il y a 5 heures, sorryh a dit :

No offense but you made it sound like "no! you can't remove the ring on the warframe you farmed and own as well customized personally in the settings based on options you personally selected around your liking, it goes against the design and concept of it" you see how odd that sounds to me?

Having options sounds like a perfect solution for both sides being happy. Those that like it, keeps it, Those that don't, have an option in the settings to hide it. It only affects their own personal experience and not each other.

Il y a 5 heures, sorryh a dit :

DE in the end is what gets to decide if they want to or not.

Well, let me ask you this on Nezha specifically :

Has DE ever approved of a Nezha skin where he doesn't have his ring in his back?

I'll answer it myself, they have not. 1 Deluxe, has the ring; 3 Tennogen, all of them have the ring, Prime also has the ring.

As much as you "farmed and own" a frame that you "customized personally", it's still within DE's boundaries of what they consider possible. It's not so much "your character" as your interpretation of DE's trademarked character. At the end of the day, Nezha is still Nezha, even if you hit the randomization and end up with a certain someone's infamous color schemes.

A so called "perfect solution" is never one. It's nothing more than someone's own vision when criticism is thrown out the window.

Is DE's approach perfect? Obviously not, but at least it's consistent, and THAT is what's good about it.

It's just like when people are upset that a frame or another is gendered one way or another, doesn't suit them so they post about how they want a toggle button to have a different model to represent another gender, despite it being just as much lorebreaking, for reasons I explained in the spoiler already.

Il y a 5 heures, sorryh a dit :

A lot feels like they approach it as if it is a threat to lose accessibility to content.

For all I've read, it doesn't seem like it. You're just making this up to make people who don't side with you look like idiots. Not very cool.

  

Le 29/06/2024 à 00:12, Vaalyah a dit :

It's a game with robots.

Well, outside of Moas and Ospreys, pretty much nothing in this game is a robot. Again, lore you partly get as early as The Second Dream quest and get expanded on a LOT in The Sacrifice quest.

 

Also for those who'd bring up Kullervo's daggers being removable... blades inserted into flesh is not so great to personal health, both physical and mental. A pregnant belly is for creating life. Not exactly the same kind of thing. Kind of the opposite actually. Let us not start comparing oranges to apples. And even if you do remove them on his skin, it doesn't change the fact that he still stabs himself with his 2, should he lack enemy targets. Hide them as much as you like, they're still here, and I can only guess people who have phobias around knives, suicide and other things Kullervo got going for him are probably not going to play him. And that's fine.

Also also : unless it's people playing her and shoving it into your face, you cannot conceively be able to see it yourself : if you have activated her 4, which is the only way to reveal it outside the Arsenal, then your rotation is LOCKED with the camera, meaning you can never have a different camera angle than where your warframe is looking.

 

If you so desperately want DE's word on this, bring their attention by flagging your own post, checking "this comment is fine but I want a moderator to know about this", and you'd probably have a better chance at them looking at it. But I'd doubt their response would please you too much. THE pregnant frame not having the definitive pregnant feature doesn't sound right, now, does it? I'm not trying to force anyone into agreeing with that, I'm just trying to have people think about the implications and consequences of their demands.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

The only thing I think is weird and uncomfortable is the severe lack of tag team attacks between Jade and her glowing energy baby. 

Real missed opportunity. Support Frame, healing, angel, whatever, thats so 2023. Catch this, how about an Ability call "Babysitter" where Jade reaches into her own belly, and yoinks her energy baby at either an ally or enemy. Umbilical cord is still attached, so its basically like Nidus link ability, really. If its an allied Warframe, the attached energy baby will give Overguard, Increased Vitality and Speed. The sort of things you need, when babysitting. If its an enemy? The baby will slowly choke it with the Umbilical cord, inflicting Void Damage, and a Viral Status, Toxic, Gas and Heat Status, making it an excellent Primer as well as possibly opening up a new Eidolon Hunting meta. (The yeet your baby at Terry, Gary and Harry meta). 

How about another ability. Late Night Cravings. Everyone knows pregnant people have weird cravings, so why not just let her eat all the enemies. Especally since Grendel has an eating limit, you give his old tech to Jade and let her just straight up eat everything. Can even have little visuals of the enemies in her open transparent glowing womb, alongside the energy baby. Obviously no boss enemies, but definitely let her devour the Stalker, it can be romantic you know? Plus make Belly of the Beast literal. 

Plus how many enemies you eat, you can have her Ultimate ability called Fetus Deletus, where the energy fetus baby, enriched by the nutrients of enemy factions, crawls out of the energy womb, grows massive and starts to Nuke all enemies on the map. Like some massive Eldritch Giga Fetus Entity. Just straight up insta nuke all enemies currently spawned. Then the baby gets small, and crawls back into the glowing energy womb. Its not like she will out DPS Saryn or Dante. 

I hope the next pregnant themed Warframe actually has some guts and innovation with its design and gameplay loop, instead of being so vanilla, cliche and predictable. 

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

5 hours ago, TsukuyomiNoGeki said:

I wouldn't care less about jade if her animations were so overly exaggerated over her belly.

Rubbing and all is ok.

But every time I see her bend backwards with her belly high in the sky with a 360 spin on her idle, I'm like "???"

I thought she was primarily an angelic Warframe.

I was really interested and enthusiastic about an angel-themed Warframe but the end result feels far more fixated on the pregnancy thing than the angel thing. My enthusiasm has diminished.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

On 2024-06-30 at 2:25 PM, Golden_Tatsuo said:

I get that its just a glowing orb in her stomach but theres something deeply unsettling about going into battle with a visibly pregnant warframe (to me, at least). 

I kind of want a Jade skin that is NOT pregnant or an option for non-pregnant Jade/toggle. 

No. Get a grip. 

[Xycelium]

Just a note; not sure it's been addressed before but it feels very weird seeing the Warframes in this thread being referred to as "robots" when I feel like the lore has made it quite clear that they purely not mechanical. Biomechanical warmachine is a term I prefer since it accurately reflects how one was originally made, and how they mostly look as well.

On 2024-06-28 at 6:26 PM, R3D_T1G3R1 said:

I Personally didn't even know about Tokophobia before before reading the post, and I'm not affected as a man. BUT this is just DE's double standards at its finest. They show support and tolerance towards LGBT people during the Pride month and people like and support it, but those comments really bug me. If Kullervo can hide his knives for cosmetic reasons entirely, jade should at the very least come with an alternative non-pregnant skin. And i do understand that there are a lot of phobias in the game, but this is a fairly easy avoidable one. Just requires an alternative skin and the issue is solved, while the issue @3xt1inct mentioned can't be solved that easily as removing the sun from the game would break the immersion, while adding an alternative skin to a frame doesn't break anything, its just some extra work, which is fair considering they also add LGBT related items into the game. and yes, a 3D model takes more time and effort compared to a LGBT display, But its totally reasonable to ask for it.

This post genuinely confuses me a lot.

How is it hypocritical for DE to support LGBT+ and release a pregnant-designed Warframe? Is the implication is that those two things don't coincide with each other, because I know this might sound surprising but people can in fact be apart of that group and support conception and whatnot. Heck, people who are apart of that group can still get pregnant if they choose to (if they were able to in the first place). So I am finding it hard to understand the double standard fallacy here at all since it seems quite out of nowhere to mention it?

Now to get back on topic, I sorta do have to agree with the lot of people pointing out other phobias in relation to Warframe, since I feel like this edge case about one specific phobia being triggered in regards to a specific Warframe probably could have (and probably have) been brought up before in a similar matter. I suppose DE could still make a "non-pregnant" Jade variation despite any of these complaints as they can simply choose to do so for any reason, however I find it somewhat unlikely due to the whole story of Jade being about the unfortunate reality of how some pregnancies can be interrupted by any given governments' or states' will to do so. I feel like removing that aspect from Jade kinda defeats the purpose of that story, and even validates the opposite message that it's trying to bring forward (as in, being in labor is simply an option, when that's not necessarily the case).

[WanderingJoe]

Hey, I get what you're trying to say. I do think it's messed up if anyone tried to get unrelated people to make accounts just for something like this. The argument about Harrow, my first instinct is to point out that the game markets itself as a violent game, not one about pregnancy. Those that do are... of a different genre. 

For me, personally, it's not about right or wrong here; Noone on the side of the aisle that wants a toggle has mentioned right or wrong. What we have said is "Hey, we don't have to play while sporting themes we were not expecting. Can we have a tool so we can manage our own experiences rather than asking you to manage everyone's." If, say, there was a warframe that... there's not an easy parallel. The best I could think of is if somehow there was a frame that like... I don't know, had... I can't think of an example that is as perfectly fine as pregnancy but that wouldn't cause people to be offended by comparing pregnancy to it. Like mentioning some kind of disability that people might get offended over but might be kinda cool to others (wheelchair frame anyone?) could easily offend someone that I was comparing pregnancy to disability, which I'm not. The point is that there are plenty of conditions, that are perfectly fine in everyday society, that people wouldn't play as in a videogame because that's not thier idea of a game they want to play. Jade probably sounds fun as heck to anyone asking for a toggle but there's a hangup we can't bring ourselves to get over like several people have told us to. Might as well give an example as a child (as in younger than the operators. Younger than preteen) that some people would say... no! That's messed up! I don't want to play as a litteral toddler in a war zone! That's not my idea of a fun game!

 

And so here we are. Jade's design is not what we consider to be a fun esthetic and we'd like to let DE know that. We've even proposed a possible solution. We're not here to consider employe workload, we're not here to consider the person who thought up the idea of a playable pregnant warframe. That's for DE to take care of as a buisness. We are the customers to said buisness, filling out the survey on the receipt. We've alerted the company we frequent of an issue we had and it's up to them to implement anything, and the logistics of doing so if they decide to accept our suggestion. I don't think anyone here is expecting more than that as a customer/buisness interaction.

[Venus-Venera]

Am 30.6.2024 um 15:25 schrieb Golden_Tatsuo:

I get that its just a glowing orb in her stomach but theres something deeply unsettling about going into battle with a visibly pregnant warframe (to me, at least). 

I kind of want a Jade skin that is NOT pregnant or an option for non-pregnant Jade/toggle. 

There is also the forum and very important points were said there:

https://forums.warframe.com/forum/1970-general-jade-shadows-feedback/

very miserable situation has not improved. and feedback was, as always, very successfully ignored, so I assume that our opinion is, as always, completely irrelevant...