The Winners and Losers of the Status / Damage Rework, and Intentions vs Reality

[Xamuswing]

Basically just a quick grading of all the statuses and damage types since the rework simplified everything.

First off, Health / Armor / Shield changes:

Grineer have less armor but more health, Corpus actually have less shielding but more health and shield regen, and Infested overall feel like they have more health, but I'm uncertain. Due to damage being equalized between most of the factions, now what's considered good or bad against them has changed slightly, but not as bad as I initially thought. When it comes to the multipliers, they work as an end damage multiplier after everything else has been considered, so now every Grineer boss is weak to Corrosive Impact, every Corpus boss is weak to Magnetic Puncture, etc. Faction Damage is now slightly more useful on a group by group basis, but still ultimately unnecessary for standard content. The main use now really is just Bosses or Demos; anything with Damage Attenuation really. Due to the armor cap, enemies now are forced to have 90% DR or less, which just means Grineer, Corrupted, Murmer, and Narmer overall are much squishier post update. Corpus have also been made squishier due to the double shield bonus on SP no longer applying, meaning now your Viral Slash builds are actually slightly better against them. (but still sub-optimal) Basically, everything is slightly easier now, which is fine. Warframe doesn't have to be a hard game; I'm just questioning why the damage system was changed the way it was to begin with since now it only makes certain builds like Alloy vs Ferrite armored boss dedicated weapons not as effective as before.

Now for the boring part, explaining Damage and why the rework didn't actually change anything:

When it comes to Statuses, there's no getting around the elephant in the room that Viral is the single best element in the game for anything not immune to it. One proc gives +100% damage to health from ALL SOURCES. At 10 stacks, you get +325% damage to health from ALL SOURCES. Reducing enemy health to 0 is the goal for 95% of content in this game. Viral now deals less damage to Grineer and Corpus due to losing the damage bonus it gets on flesh, yes, but this damage weakness was actually removed for normal Infested, meaning Viral damage is actually better now against them. The damage from it isn't important, however, it is mostly the status and its uses. This is part of why Nourish has been the single best Helminth in the game since the system's inception. It is a tremendous damage boost to anything that can deal a good amount of statuses on the enemy.

None of this has changed in Jade Shadows. Viral is still the best overall element in the game. It makes every other element work better. It makes itself work better. It was the best element before the update, and will continue to be until this damage bonus to health is changed, either by making health less significant, or changing how the status functions. I don't imagine this will change anytime soon. The only competition it had was Corrosive with 2 Emerald Shards, but due to Armor being less centralizing than it was before, the Status Rework has inadvertently put Viral back on top as the best overall element to use, especially once you get into 1-2 hour Circuit or Disruption where enemies start getting into the 1000s. You need that extra damage from Viral to deal with those enemies.

With that said, to quickly assess things besides Viral damage:

• Impact gets a C and has stayed in the same spot. The Finisher window being expanded is highly situational at best, and the guaranteed Stagger it deals isn't super useful by itself unless paired with a slow like Gloom. Impact's main use on Guns being able to be turned into Slash procs is the only thing keeping it relevant for SP and EDA level content.
• Puncture gets an F and has been made significantly worse due to losing the bonus damage on armor. The increase in final Crit Chance is somewhat pointless if the damage bonuses it's able to provide don't give it the edge to really 'punch through' armor like it could before. Puncture is now easily the worst of the IPS stats on it's own, but can be useful on a Primer with Viral, Cold, or Arcane Encumber attached to it.
• Slash gets an A but has been made slightly worse due to losing it's damage bonus on most sources of health. Due to the fact it can still bypass armor however, and still receives the damage bonus from Viral, means it will still be a meta pick.
• Heat gets an A and has stayed in the same spot. The infinite damage ramp-up and reduction of enemy armor by 50% still remains as significant as before, but has been made slightly better due to the armor cap. It was great before, and it's great now.
• Electricity gets a A and has been made slightly better than before, but owes it's current placement to Arcane Influence. Due to armor being really harsh on it both before and after the rework, Electric competes as a middle ground between Heat for single target and Blast for multi target. Currently, the best use of Electric is Influence being the meta pick for most Melee weapons with a half decent status chance to wipe out entire rooms, due to how Influence scales with multiple targets.
• Toxin gets a C and has been made slightly worse due to losing it's damage bonus on Corpus health. It still bypasses Shields, which is nice, but not as good as it was before. The only thing really saving it is that Emerald Shards can make it work overtime on Exalted weapons with Archon Continuity, Saryn, and Hydroid if you build him to use his weapons more than his abilities, but it's not super useful by itself.
• Cold gets a B and has been made significantly better due to the ability to fully freeze targets. Shivering Contagion is now great to have on your Verglas Sentinels- like it wasn't already the best thing most of them could run. The Crit Damage bonus is nice as well.
• Viral is still the best element in the game. It gets an S
• Magnetic gets a C which is still a significant improvement, but not as good as much as I'd thought it would get. Shields can easily be bypassed with Toxin, and the bonus damage to Overguard is only really useful on weapons that already don't deal very good damage to begin with. The Electric Proc on shield break also isn't too useful as just modding Electric on the weapon itself in most cases. It's main use is getting rid of Amalgam's Shields so that they don't receive damage reduction anymore, or for farming Granum Crowns.
• Corrosive gets a B and debatably should get a lower grade if Green Shards weren't as meta defining as they were / are. The loss of both the bonus damage it receives against armor, and armor in general just being less effective means the necessity to armor strip is significantly lower, meaning Corrosive goes from a meta pick to a faction pick that ultimately gets outdone by other combinations, much like Magnetic itself.
• Radiation gets a D which is unfortunate, since it used to have a good spot as an upfront damage type against Alloy armored opponents. Confusion is nice to spread among groups for CC purposes, but outdone by Cold as a raw CC tool. The armor changes really hurt it as a damage type overall with exception to Qorvex using it, and against Sentients / Murmer, whom were already weak to it.
• Blast gets an A which is a massive improvement. Having more range and higher upfront damage than Electric is already good, but due to the ability to combo it with Influence, and innate Blast weapons with high status being able to combine it's damage with Viral give it massive room clearing potential that's even better than Gas / Electric was in grouping situations.
• Gas gets a D and has stayed in the same spot. The main problem with Gas as a DoT is that it's terrible only effecting one enemy, and the damage doesn't scale up with multiple procs like all the other DoTs, only the cloud size. As such, you need to bend over backwards with faction damage and either Influence or a grouping ability to make Gas room clear as effectively as Blast or Electric does by itself- to which, why not just use Blast or Electric instead?

TL;DR: Viral is still the best element, damage changes make Corrosive slightly weaker, most other anti-armor elements significantly weaker, and Blast to be actually usable.

If the intent was to make Viral + Slash or Viral + Electric less centralizing, the status rework fails in that department. The combo is as strong as it ever was, and the only addition is that Blast + Electric will get higher kill counts at lower levels of SP, but falls off on higher levels without a Viral status. Viral + Slash or Viral + Heat remains the best options for Demos, unless they're Infested Demos (or Deimos), then you go raw damage on Gas or Blast.

[Gullim92]

Very comprehensive post, which I'm thankful for since we're still all experimenting with the new system. I'll say that from what I can remember, DE's intention was not to dethrone Viral as the best status in the game, but rather bring other options a little closer to it instead of having a massive power gap where nothing was anywhere even close to Viral. And in my opinion I think that, if that was indeed their intention, this rework was a success.

From the testing I've done (granted I'm not an endurance player by any means, so my opinions only extend to around EDA levels) it seems like most elements are actually somewhat usable now, which is a massive difference from our situation pre-rework. I would never have even bothered to use something like Magnetic or Blast before this update, and while I can still use the old reliable Viral build on all my weapons, I don't feel like I'm playing the game wrong if I swith to something else now.

We're still relatively early in this new system so we'll have to see where everything ends up, but right now I think the update was, at the very least, an improvement to the overall game. Hopefully I won't have to regret saying that.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

Very good and comprehensive post.

I agree with everything you wrote.

That said, I'm quite disappointed with Magnetic. I was hoping it will become more useful with the changes but the only element that got a good buff was Blast.

[0_The_F00l]

I am mostly in agreement from a comparison perspective , but not too sure about the ranks themselves.

I have this feeling that we will be seeing more changes to damage multipliers and how they work in the game over time.

[kadlis12]

I think this summary is really generous towards the physical types of damage. Because you are not actually choosing them. You choose a weapon (or in an increasing amount of cases you even do not choose a weapon) and the weapon might have some physical type of damage. It is not something that can be rebuilt from scratch. It just is.

edit: To be clear, I do not question the "value" of physical types of damage. I question putting something you can build from scratch next to something you just have or do not have regardless of your intentions.

Edited Wednesday at 08:07 AM by kadlis12

[Venus-Venera]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Xamuswing:

Basically just a quick grading of all the statuses and damage types since the rework simplified everything.

First off, Health / Armor / Shield changes:

Grineer have less armor but more health, Corpus actually have less shielding but more health and shield regen, and Infested overall feel like they have more health, but I'm uncertain. Due to damage being equalized between most of the factions, now what's considered good or bad against them has changed slightly, but not as bad as I initially thought. When it comes to the multipliers, they work as an end damage multiplier after everything else has been considered, so now every Grineer boss is weak to Corrosive Impact, every Corpus boss is weak to Magnetic Puncture, etc. Faction Damage is now slightly more useful on a group by group basis, but still ultimately unnecessary for standard content. The main use now really is just Bosses or Demos; anything with Damage Attenuation really. Due to the armor cap, enemies now are forced to have 90% DR or less, which just means Grineer, Corrupted, Murmer, and Narmer overall are much squishier post update. Corpus have also been made squishier due to the double shield bonus on SP no longer applying, meaning now your Viral Slash builds are actually slightly better against them. (but still sub-optimal) Basically, everything is slightly easier now, which is fine. Warframe doesn't have to be a hard game; I'm just questioning why the damage system was changed the way it was to begin with since now it only makes certain builds like Alloy vs Ferrite armored boss dedicated weapons not as effective as before.

Now for the boring part, explaining Damage and why the rework didn't actually change anything:

When it comes to Statuses, there's no getting around the elephant in the room that Viral is the single best element in the game for anything not immune to it. One proc gives +100% damage to health from ALL SOURCES. At 10 stacks, you get +325% damage to health from ALL SOURCES. Reducing enemy health to 0 is the goal for 95% of content in this game. Viral now deals less damage to Grineer and Corpus due to losing the damage bonus it gets on flesh, yes, but this damage weakness was actually removed for normal Infested, meaning Viral damage is actually better now against them. The damage from it isn't important, however, it is mostly the status and its uses. This is part of why Nourish has been the single best Helminth in the game since the system's inception. It is a tremendous damage boost to anything that can deal a good amount of statuses on the enemy.

None of this has changed in Jade Shadows. Viral is still the best overall element in the game. It makes every other element work better. It makes itself work better. It was the best element before the update, and will continue to be until this damage bonus to health is changed, either by making health less significant, or changing how the status functions. I don't imagine this will change anytime soon. The only competition it had was Corrosive with 2 Emerald Shards, but due to Armor being less centralizing than it was before, the Status Rework has inadvertently put Viral back on top as the best overall element to use, especially once you get into 1-2 hour Circuit or Disruption where enemies start getting into the 1000s. You need that extra damage from Viral to deal with those enemies.

With that said, to quickly assess things besides Viral damage:

• Impact gets a C and has stayed in the same spot. The Finisher window being expanded is highly situational at best, and the guaranteed Stagger it deals isn't super useful by itself unless paired with a slow like Gloom. Impact's main use on Guns being able to be turned into Slash procs is the only thing keeping it relevant for SP and EDA level content.
• Puncture gets an F and has been made significantly worse due to losing the bonus damage on armor. The increase in final Crit Chance is somewhat pointless if the damage bonuses it's able to provide don't give it the edge to really 'punch through' armor like it could before. Puncture is now easily the worst of the IPS stats on it's own, but can be useful on a Primer with Viral, Cold, or Arcane Encumber attached to it.
• Slash gets an A but has been made slightly worse due to losing it's damage bonus on most sources of health. Due to the fact it can still bypass armor however, and still receives the damage bonus from Viral, means it will still be a meta pick.
• Heat gets an A and has stayed in the same spot. The infinite damage ramp-up and reduction of enemy armor by 50% still remains as significant as before, but has been made slightly better due to the armor cap. It was great before, and it's great now.
• Electricity gets a A and has been made slightly better than before, but owes it's current placement to Arcane Influence. Due to armor being really harsh on it both before and after the rework, Electric competes as a middle ground between Heat for single target and Blast for multi target. Currently, the best use of Electric is Influence being the meta pick for most Melee weapons with a half decent status chance to wipe out entire rooms, due to how Influence scales with multiple targets.
• Toxin gets a C and has been made slightly worse due to losing it's damage bonus on Corpus health. It still bypasses Shields, which is nice, but not as good as it was before. The only thing really saving it is that Emerald Shards can make it work overtime on Exalted weapons with Archon Continuity, Saryn, and Hydroid if you build him to use his weapons more than his abilities, but it's not super useful by itself.
• Cold gets a B and has been made significantly better due to the ability to fully freeze targets. Shivering Contagion is now great to have on your Verglas Sentinels- like it wasn't already the best thing most of them could run. The Crit Damage bonus is nice as well.
• Viral is still the best element in the game. It gets an S
• Magnetic gets a C which is still a significant improvement, but not as good as much as I'd thought it would get. Shields can easily be bypassed with Toxin, and the bonus damage to Overguard is only really useful on weapons that already don't deal very good damage to begin with. The Electric Proc on shield break also isn't too useful as just modding Electric on the weapon itself in most cases. It's main use is getting rid of Amalgam's Shields so that they don't receive damage reduction anymore, or for farming Granum Crowns.
• Corrosive gets a B and debatably should get a lower grade if Green Shards weren't as meta defining as they were / are. The loss of both the bonus damage it receives against armor, and armor in general just being less effective means the necessity to armor strip is significantly lower, meaning Corrosive goes from a meta pick to a faction pick that ultimately gets outdone by other combinations, much like Magnetic itself.
• Radiation gets a D which is unfortunate, since it used to have a good spot as an upfront damage type against Alloy armored opponents. Confusion is nice to spread among groups for CC purposes, but outdone by Cold as a raw CC tool. The armor changes really hurt it as a damage type overall with exception to Qorvex using it, and against Sentients / Murmer, whom were already weak to it.
• Blast gets an A which is a massive improvement. Having more range and higher upfront damage than Electric is already good, but due to the ability to combo it with Influence, and innate Blast weapons with high status being able to combine it's damage with Viral give it massive room clearing potential that's even better than Gas / Electric was in grouping situations.
• Gas gets a D and has stayed in the same spot. The main problem with Gas as a DoT is that it's terrible only effecting one enemy, and the damage doesn't scale up with multiple procs like all the other DoTs, only the cloud size. As such, you need to bend over backwards with faction damage and either Influence or a grouping ability to make Gas room clear as effectively as Blast or Electric does by itself- to which, why not just use Blast or Electric instead?

TL;DR: Viral is still the best element, damage changes make Corrosive slightly weaker, most other anti-armor elements significantly weaker, and Blast to be actually usable.

If the intent was to make Viral + Slash or Viral + Electric less centralizing, the status rework fails in that department. The combo is as strong as it ever was, and the only addition is that Blast + Electric will get higher kill counts at lower levels of SP, but falls off on higher levels without a Viral status. Viral + Slash or Viral + Heat remains the best options for Demos, unless they're Infested Demos (or Deimos), then you go raw damage on Gas or Blast.

that's not meant to be malicious.

only when I read claims, I hope for proof. but that's not the case here. the whole thing reads like propaganda for overframe-useless-builds. so is it about all beginners who don't test anything converting all weapons to viral+heat?
because the top list doesn't work AT ALL and important details have to be defined first, such as:

1. who we're playing against or mission type.
2. for SP circuit?
3. what level the enemies are
4. what weapons we use
5. what followers we have and can they also distribute status procs?
6. do we play solo or in a group? or why install viral if everyone has it anyway?
7. and and and....

and another very important detail: according to the game, corr proc is suggested for greener. but in the game (not just in simulation) we see that viral+heat is extremely dominant. so the designers probably imagined the whole thing differently? therefore it could also be a bug....

there are also unique builds that perform well against all factions at the SP level cap. then the enemies can order a grave straight away, because after 2-3 seconds the whole horde is on the ground.

[Xamuswing]

32 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

-snip-

Not sure why you're treating it like the most extensive, detailed explanation humanly possible, and I don't use Overframe hardly ever, but sure, I'll answer some questions.

1. Everyone / General Purpose
2. Any weapon can work for SP Circuit, it mostly relies on getting the right decrees and utilizing survivability tools.
3. Baseline SP to EDA for most of my testing, which is what most players will actually bother with. Got up to about 1500 on Disruption before I got bored.
4. Again, just general purpose. If you want to build around a specific weapon or frame, you'll need to experiment on your own.
5. I purposefully remove followers to see how each weapon works on it's own first.
6. That's something to coordinate with your clan, or just bring whatever you feel works in pubs. Again, experiment on your own.
7. Corrosive + Impact are suggested bcus they get a damage bonus against the faction. Applying Viral will also increase the damage these elements do, on top of the damage bonus they already receive. Nothing I've brought up is either a bug, or only works in Simulacrum, its literally just how the Viral status works.
8. Use this Laetum build if you're that starved for SP builds that just sh*t on everything without even trying. Swap out Scorch for a fire rate mod if it's too slow.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Xamuswing:

-snip-

Not sure why you're treating it like the most extensive, detailed explanation humanly possible, and I don't use Overframe hardly ever, but sure, I'll answer some questions.

-snip-

 

Unfortunately, that is not the case at all and is immediately visible to the naked eye.
But I see that you take justified criticism very painfully and hysterically, so I see no point in having a discussion...

[SabreWalrus]

7 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

Radiation gets a D which is unfortunate, since it used to have a good spot as an upfront damage type against Alloy armored opponents. Confusion is nice to spread among groups for CC purposes, but outdone by Cold as a raw CC tool. The armor changes really hurt it as a damage type overall with exception to Qorvex using it, and against Sentients / Murmer, whom were already weak to it.

Radiation is far, far more effective as a CC tool than Cold in high density situations, as it essentially takes the AI's aggro/focus completely away from you. 1 rad-proc'd enemy in a group of 30 means the other 29 turn their attention to it and away from you, whereas 1 Cold proc'd enemy may not be able to do much but the other 29 are still shooting at you. Its direct damage isn't very special now, but its status makes it a solid C+/B imo.

 

7 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

Magnetic gets a C which is still a significant improvement, but not as good as much as I'd thought it would get. Shields can easily be bypassed with Toxin, and the bonus damage to Overguard is only really useful on weapons that already don't deal very good damage to begin with. The Electric Proc on shield break also isn't too useful as just modding Electric on the weapon itself in most cases. It's main use is getting rid of Amalgam's Shields so that they don't receive damage reduction anymore, or for farming Granum Crowns.

Magnetic is extremely valuable in anything endurance, as Overguard is one of the main things causing trouble. Not only can we boost damage against Overguard with it, but the burst of Electric damage and forced Electric DoT after the Overguard breaks is pretty incredible. In general use I'd rank it A vs Corpus and C vs Grineer, but it's an S in something like Void Cascade

I think your grading system overall misses a lot of necessary nuance by not grading the elements vs specific factions, since the intent is for them to have clear strengths and weaknesses. Grading Toxin C when it's still BIS vs Corpus is wild, and likewise grading Viral S when it's pretty useless vs Corpus is wild. Grineer having their armour nerfed really devalues the importance of the elements typically used against them

[RAZORLIGHT]

Good post @Xamuswing

Sadly i was hoping for more impactful changes for the different elements.

Viral + Heat/electricity is still king and corrosive is kinda meh (on weapons)

Magnetic is okish but only on kuva/tenet weapons as a progenitor element

Gas damage has to increase per stack not only the range!

I like the armor changes though. 

Hopefully they can buff certain elements to the level, that viral isn't a must.

Edited Wednesday at 01:20 PM by RAZORLIGHT

[quxier]

8 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

Due to the armor cap, enemies now are forced to have 90% DR or less, which just means Grineer, Corrupted, Murmer, and Narmer overall are much squishier post update.

8 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

None of this has changed in Jade Shadows. Viral is still the best overall element in the game. It makes every other element work better. It makes itself work better. It was the best element before the update, and will continue to be until this damage bonus to health is changed, either by making health less significant, or changing how the status functions. I don't imagine this will change anytime soon. The only competition it had was Corrosive with 2 Emerald Shards, but due to Armor being less centralizing than it was before, the Status Rework has inadvertently put Viral back on top as the best overall element to use, especially once you get into 1-2 hour Circuit or Disruption where enemies start getting into the 1000s. You need that extra damage from Viral to deal with those enemies.

Enemies may be squisher but, as you mentioned, corrosive with 2 shards get "nerfed". Sure, I even feel like SP are little bit less spongy. However before update I could remove a lot of ehp via armor stripping (corrosive + shard (+heat), abilities etc). Now I cannot do this. So for this usage it makes enemies more tankier. For that reason I'm removing Corrosive shards... I don't know what to do with them.

8 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

Electricity gets a A and has been made slightly better than before, but owes it's current placement to Arcane Influence. Due to armor being really harsh on it both before and after the rework, Electric competes as a middle ground between Heat for single target and Blast for multi target. Currently, the best use of Electric is Influence being the meta pick for most Melee weapons with a half decent status chance to wipe out entire rooms, due to how Influence scales with multiple targets.

8 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

Magnetic gets a C which is still a significant improvement, but not as good as much as I'd thought it would get. Shields can easily be bypassed with Toxin, and the bonus damage to Overguard is only really useful on weapons that already don't deal very good damage to begin with. The Electric Proc on shield break also isn't too useful as just modding Electric on the weapon itself in most cases. It's main use is getting rid of Amalgam's Shields so that they don't receive damage reduction anymore, or for farming Granum Crowns.

I think you are too harsh on it, especially on melee. Electric has Influence but Magnetic has Vortex. Same setups (range, attack speed etc) and it has similar DPS in Simulacrum. So I would say that Magnetic is at least B if it comes to melee. And not sure how blast helps but (with other slower setups) I've hardly seen Influence usage where Vortex was doing fine.

8 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

•  
• Blast gets an A which is a massive improvement. Having more range and higher upfront damage than Electric is already good, but due to the ability to combo it with Influence, and innate Blast weapons with high status being able to combine it's damage with Viral give it massive room clearing potential that's even better than Gas / Electric was in grouping situations.

8 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

•  
• Cold gets a B and has been made significantly better due to the ability to fully freeze targets. Shivering Contagion is now great to have on your Verglas Sentinels- like it wasn't already the best thing most of them could run. The Crit Damage bonus is nice as well.

With certain setups, I guess, Blast can be "blasty" (Ba dum tss). However when it comes to more than damage I would give Cold ~A and Blast C. Blasted enemies spasm a lot, making it harder to e.g. headshot. Plus they spread wider, making chaining effect worse.

 

9 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

If the intent was to make Viral + Slash or Viral + Electric less centralizing, the status rework fails in that department. The combo is as strong as it ever was, and the only addition is that Blast + Electric will get higher kill counts at lower levels of SP, but falls off on higher levels without a Viral status. Viral + Slash or Viral + Heat remains the best options for Demos, unless they're Infested Demos (or Deimos), then you go raw damage on Gas or Blast.

IMHO intent was (not only with status rework) is for us to use different element damage/status. With addition of arcane, Shivering contagion it makes me use Cold. Melee Vortex made me use Magnetic. Green shards made me use Corrosive (not anymore...).

 

Nevertheless, thanks for your insight.

 

[quxier]

1 hour ago, SabreWalrus said:

9 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

Radiation gets a D which is unfortunate, since it used to have a good spot as an upfront damage type against Alloy armored opponents. Confusion is nice to spread among groups for CC purposes, but outdone by Cold as a raw CC tool. The armor changes really hurt it as a damage type overall with exception to Qorvex using it, and against Sentients / Murmer, whom were already weak to it.

Radiation is far, far more effective as a CC tool than Cold in high density situations, as it essentially takes the AI's aggro/focus completely away from you. 1 rad-proc'd enemy in a group of 30 means the other 29 turn their attention to it and away from you, whereas 1 Cold proc'd enemy may not be able to do much but the other 29 are still shooting at you. Its direct damage isn't very special now, but its status makes it a solid C+/B imo.

29 enemies won't suddenly not attack or damage you.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

• Impact gets an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Puncture an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Slash gets an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Heat gets an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Electricity an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Toxin gets an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Cold gets an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Viral is an S+ because it kills everything on Steel Path slightly faster
• Magnetic gets an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Corrosive gets an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Radiation gets an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Blast gets an an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Gas gets a an S because it kills everything on Steel Path

[SabreWalrus]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

29 enemies won't suddenly not attack or damage you.

It's not 100% foolproof but it's very easy to create situations where you take absolutely no aggro. When you pair this with the general movement of the game and geometry of the tilesets, you just don't get hit

[quxier]

1 hour ago, SabreWalrus said:

It's not 100% foolproof but it's very easy to create situations where you take absolutely no aggro. When you pair this with the general movement of the game and geometry of the tilesets, you just don't get hit

It's not 1 enemy from 29 (20 in case of Simulacrum). I could freeze/slow enemies even better with e.g. Shivering contagion and enemies will do even les damage (not agro).

As with your controlled enviroment you get hit. You may not take agro but it doesn't matter if you get hit. Enemies won't simply "oh, it's not-radiated player, let's avoid it".

And you can use geometry/movement... like with all statuses.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Xylena_Lazarow:

• Impact gets an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Puncture an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Slash gets an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Heat gets an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Electricity an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Toxin gets an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Cold gets an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Viral is an S+ because it kills everything on Steel Path slightly faster
• Magnetic gets an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Corrosive gets an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Radiation gets an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Blast gets an an S because it kills everything on Steel Path
• Gas gets a an S because it kills everything on Steel Path

no joke... this is what misinformation  from above could look like.
and I think it's a shame that so many new players fall for ridiculous lies without evidence and use miserable builds!
even that year I looked closely at Harrow P and looked at the build on Overframe... OMG! what's in first place there is just sick! and something like that is sold as the best SP build???

So always expose on lies. This increases the quality of the game!

-> We also protect new players and ensure the next generation of Warframe!

Edited Wednesday at 05:26 PM by Venus-Venera

[ENIAK_Prime]

I'm actually not sure Puncture was rated very fairly considering most of your negative points about it are how it interacts with ARMOR, when the changes have made it clear it's no longer meant to go UP against armor, now that it's the CORPUS weakness instead. You should rate it's effectiveness on Corpus enemies and their shields...

[Xylena_Lazarow]

1 hour ago, Venus-Venera said:

no joke... this is what misinformation  from above could look like.

No joke, that's my tier list for a late game arsenal, the EHP rework ruined late game for me with the wet toilet paper TTK on Steel Path. Between this and all the randomizer nonsense, I no longer have reason to obtain more gear for stronger builds, I have "won" the game for now. I'll take a break and come back when the dust settles.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Xylena_Lazarow:

No joke, that's my tier list for a late game arsenal, the EHP rework ruined late game for me with the wet toilet paper TTK on Steel Path. Between this and all the randomizer nonsense, I no longer have reason to obtain more gear for stronger builds, I have "won" the game for now. I'll take a break and come back when the dust settles.

is a catch-up update;)
Maybe it is also wanted. They will probably turn a lot back. Because Come On ... even a beginner can see after a few minutes that the status stuff is not right. And such a large company has to have a test team.

[Waeleto]

14 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

Viral is still the best element in the game. It gets an S

As. It. Should.

[Xamuswing]

7 hours ago, SabreWalrus said:

Magnetic is extremely valuable in anything endurance, as Overguard is one of the main things causing trouble. Not only can we boost damage against Overguard with it, but the burst of Electric damage and forced Electric DoT after the Overguard breaks is pretty incredible. In general use I'd rank it A vs Corpus and C vs Grineer, but it's an S in something like Void Cascade

Hadn't considered Void Cascade, good catch. Magnetic will be really helpful dealing with Thrax enemies who have way more overguard than the usual enemies.

8 hours ago, SabreWalrus said:

I think your grading system overall misses a lot of necessary nuance by not grading the elements vs specific factions, since the intent is for them to have clear strengths and weaknesses. Grading Toxin C when it's still BIS vs Corpus is wild, and likewise grading Viral S when it's pretty useless vs Corpus is wild. Grineer having their armour nerfed really devalues the importance of the elements typically used against them

Obv any general purpose "Use this for all content" type lists fall short of these nuances, this is just to give an idea of what's useful against what. I'd still say Viral is useful against Corpus, largely because Toxin will still get more damage from the status effect, and Demos still have obnoxiously high HP. Outside of Disruption however, Viral becomes less important, and going Toxin + Magnetic, or Gas + Electric / Blast + Electric will get better kill rates on base SP.

[Tiltskillet]

9 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

only when I read claims, I hope for proof. but that's not the case here. the whole thing reads like propaganda for overframe-useless-builds. so is it about all beginners who don't test anything converting all weapons to viral+heat?
because the top list doesn't work AT ALL and important details have to be defined first, such as:

1. who we're playing against or mission type.
2. for SP circuit?
3. what level the enemies are
4. what weapons we use
5. what followers we have and can they also distribute status procs?
6. do we play solo or in a group? or why install viral if everyone has it anyway?
7. and and and....

It's too bad you don't apply any of these criteria to your own claims.

 

8 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

But I see that you take justified criticism very painfully and hysterically, so I see no point in having a discussion...

Clear case of a black pot calling the blue kettle black.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb Tiltskillet:

It's too bad you don't apply any of these criteria to your own claims.

Are you talking to yourself again? Because then you can quote a lot of your own provocative posts.

The fact is that new players are very important to me and to many other good players. That's why I find what you're trying to do very embarrassing. New players need to be informed and provided with real information. That was never the case with you, as far as I can see from your post history.... what a pity!

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Venus-Venera said:

Are you talking to yourself again?

I mean, I may as well be. 

[Gaxxian]

Any dmg abilities did lose in this change too. Before those were already bad, but not they do the same dmg while the enemies have x3 total hp.