Warframe really need to change its mastery system.

[Vocation]

Was a beta tester and a master founder. Recently got back because a friend recommended me try it out again, but the same issues are still around. Why do we have to equip a weapon for it to gain mastery? Why should I gimp my load out to level up to access other things? Why does it have to be unfun to progress? I generally find a load out I enjoy and play that as much as I can. 

I hope we can change it to where we get an "inventory mastery slots" where you can put weapons in for them to gain mastery instead of what we equip. It can even be for like 30% less mastery points or a platinum only item. 

I dropped the game again due to this. No way do I wanna equip low tier terribad guns just to gain levels, the dumbest system ever invented. 

Edited July 4 by Vocation

[--Leyenda-yight6]

You only need to reach Mastery Rank 15 to unlock all weapons. It is very easy to get to that level by leveling companions and warframes.

If leveling up mastery doesn't sound fun to you, then just don't do it, it's not necessary to do so for any content in the game.

Edited July 4 by --Leyenda-yight6

[Pakaku]

In case you don’t know, you gain affinity from other players even if you don’t use that weapon, so this is only a problem if you only play solo.

[MobyTheDuck]

This is one of the most asinine requests I've heard.

How can you even "master" something by NOT interacting with it in any shape or form. Imagine if we could get better at coding or sports by sleeping.

You want to just reap the benefits without sowing anything? Get the rewards without spending time or effort?

If you can't bother or don't have the time to do one of the many ways to max something in like 5-10 minutes, I really don't know what to tell you. Might be a skill issue, probably better to just imagine you maxed it and move along.

[PollexMessier]

This is probably the single least contentious point of the mastery system.

It's really not that hard to just have one or two unranked weapons equipped and only use the ranked one. The only times having a fully maxed out kit really matters is endgame content. And even then you only really need one or two good weapons depending on what you're doing with them.

But I'll tell you a fun little secret. Bring a bunch of unranked weapons into public Sanctuary onslaught, and a frame you can rely on to deal damage without weapons so you're not just leeching. You'll max rank your whole kit in like 20-30 minutes.

If you enjoy using frames with exalted weapons Like Baruuk, Excaliber, or Dante, then the weapons you have with you scarcely even matter at all.

[Chewarette]

1 hour ago, PollexMessier said:

But I'll tell you a fun little secret. Bring a bunch of unranked weapons into public Sanctuary onslaught, and a frame you can rely on to deal damage without weapons so you're not just leeching. You'll max rank your whole kit in like 20-30 minutes.

It's counterproductive to kill enemies with abilities to rank weapons

[KIREEK]

I find the MR system to be rather pointless asside from making sure players have some sort of gameplay before they go trading, so up to MR2 i believe it makes sense, everything else is just a way to keep players engaged, as such i never cared for MR, which confuses some players, but that's my thing, i don't do something that is utterly unenjoyable.

Why you feel the need to raise your MR if the outcome will only make you angrier at the game? Are there any specific reasons you need it that badly?

[PollexMessier]

16 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

It's counterproductive to kill enemies with abilities to rank weapons

Yes I'm aware of that but it's also rude to just go into public sanctuary and do nothing.

I can go in there as Saryn and have my spores perpetually active and still get a whole set of weapons ranked from 0 to 30 in an 8 round run without a booster. So it's really not that detrimental as long as the other players are also putting in an effort. Because the whole point of this strategy is team affinity.

My point was go to sanctuary to level gear but don't just be a worthless leech about it.

Edited July 4 by PollexMessier

[quxier]

1 hour ago, KIREEK said:

I find the MR system to be rather pointless asside from making sure players have some sort of gameplay before they go trading, so up to MR2 i believe it makes sense, everything else is just a way to keep players engaged, as such i never cared for MR, which confuses some players, but that's my thing, i don't do something that is utterly unenjoyable.

It's not perfect, but MR has some purpose.

It forces you to try different things and master it or at least be comfortable with them.

MR tests test your skills. Do I know bullet jump? Do I know how to take cover? Those may be basics but not every person is good player from the start.

It timegates so they won't spend e.g. hours in simple mission to farm syndicate stuff. It's for spreading content as well. We get that.

 

1 hour ago, KIREEK said:

which confuses some players, but that's my thing, i don't do something that is utterly unenjoyable.

Why you feel the need to raise your MR if the outcome will only make you angrier at the game? Are there any specific reasons you need it that badly?

What confuses you? Or just in general confuses players?

 

 

Why you hate it so much?

Is it gathering & leveling gear?

- Farming some missions when RNG is not great may be bad. It's especially the case with old grinds without pity shop (e.g. Dante frame can drop from Disruption or you can buy Dante for resources that some enemies drop).

- Is it slot issues? Yes, it's one thing bad for new players. In my old days we had like 50 plat (so that's 2 frames or 8 weapons afair), base 2 frame slots, 8 weapon slots (for 3 types). There were some free slots like some old code (Freesword afair that gave you heat slots + catalyst). Basically at some low MR point I was selling weapons to get new one to raise MR.

- Is it MR test? Yeah, they can be annoying if you don't complete it. I've been stuck on MR ~26  and some other MR with elevator (I've not seen the elevator... lol).

- Is it leveling weapons? Yeah, changing gear  is not so great. I don't like doing it for every mission. Stilll... 1 gear at time is not so bad. Like many mentioned, you just equip it and let it "suck" experience.

[RLanzinger]

To @Vocation,

The MR system is mainly for to establish a ladder scale for Free Player :

1. All Warframes and sentinels are MR 0, today.
2. All weapons are MR 0 to 14 (MR is 35 max) / Only kuvas and tennets are MR 15-16.
3. All quests, Specific Unlocks/Benefits are MR16 at most.

Also for MR gains :

1. Warframes and sentinels can be mastered within a hour (slow) / 20min (fast).
2. Weapons can be mastered within a half-hour (slow) / 10min (fast).
3. To attain MR14 you need 490k mastery : All Warframes are worth 600k, Primaries 500k, Secondaries 400k, Melee 650k. so A QUARTER of EACH at max

If you pay with PLATS : MR is irrelevant.

1. You can (not) have the best frame (Exca prime) if you buy it.
2. You can have the best weapons with little grind if you buy it.

The only real lock are (solo) quests, inventory slots and for the rest plats are the fast pass...

Edited July 4 by RLanzinger
grammar :p

[Chewarette]

1 hour ago, PollexMessier said:

Yes I'm aware of that but it's also rude to just go into public sanctuary and do nothing.

I can go in there as Saryn and have my spores perpetually active and still get a whole set of weapons ranked from 0 to 30 in an 8 round run without a booster. So it's really not that detrimental as long as the other players are also putting in an effort. Because the whole point of this strategy is team affinity.

My point was go to sanctuary to level gear but don't just be a worthless leech about it.

Yup I know, but imo there are more efficient ways, all while not leeching, even with garbage weapons.

Harrow makes any primary / secondary wreck stuff, so you rank them a lot more quickly, + you buff allies to help kill enemies faster in general.

Melee Warframes (I usually take Valkyr or Voruna, but everything works anyway with Helminth nowadays) with Naramon make Melee leveling a lot quicker.

Of course I'll never advocate for anyone to equip weapon and AFK in ESO. Please don't do that. :p

[PollexMessier]

17 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Yup I know, but imo there are more efficient ways, all while not leeching, even with garbage weapons.

Harrow makes any primary / secondary wreck stuff, so you rank them a lot more quickly, + you buff allies to help kill enemies faster in general.

Melee Warframes (I usually take Valkyr or Voruna, but everything works anyway with Helminth nowadays) with Naramon make Melee leveling a lot quicker.

Of course I'll never advocate for anyone to equip weapon and AFK in ESO. Please don't do that. :p

If you can manage to kill with the weapons by some means, then obviously that would be faster.

But depending on the weapon being leveled or the mastery level of the player, that might just not be feasible. So I offered a more universally applyable option.

[KIREEK]

30 minutes ago, quxier said:

What confuses you? Or just in general confuses players?

I am MR16, but the remaining stats don't really match up with a tipical MR16, this often trows players off as they don't know what to think.

The last time my name was brought up, was when a large alliance found it confusing that i was recruiting players to my clan (it's not their responsibility, but they feel the need as it was and they had to say something) and the discussion quickly turned into a sugestion among them that i should have raised my MR given that it increases the probability of recruiting players, especially players easily impressionable by high MR.

The idea is that if players wanting to join a clan see the recruiter at MR16, this ultimately discredits the recruiter/clanwarlord as a competent leader and players will seek out other clans.

As you can probably imagine the correlation is nonsense, but gives you insight as to why some recruiters are high MR, they need to populate the clans with easily impressionable players, they often don't care about the quality of the players as such the clan and the players get exactly what they want and deserve.

Why is an alliance discussing the recruit methods of a random ghost clan (among the thousands that exist)? A very good question which i don't know the answer to. I suspect either hate or jealousy, maybe both or something different i haven't considered.

[quxier]

7 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

53 minutes ago, quxier said:

What confuses you? Or just in general confuses players?

I am MR16, but the remaining stats don't really match up with a tipical MR16, this often trows players off as they don't know what to think.

The last time my name was brought up, was when a large alliance found it confusing that i was recruiting players to my clan (it's not their responsibility, but they feel the need as it was and they had to say something) and the discussion quickly turned into a sugestion among them that i should have raised my MR given that it increases the probability of recruiting players, especially players easily impressionable by high MR.

The idea is that if players wanting to join a clan see the recruiter at MR16, this ultimately discredits the recruiter/clanwarlord as a competent leader and players will seek out other clans.

As you can probably imagine the correlation is nonsense, but gives you insight as to why some recruiters are high MR, they need to populate the clans with easily impressionable players, they often don't care about the quality of the players as such the clan and the players get exactly what they want and deserve.

Why is an alliance discussing the recruit methods of a random ghost clan (among the thousands that exist)? A very good question which i don't know the answer to. I suspect either hate or jealousy, maybe both or something different i haven't considered.

Ah, this issue. I personally hasn't seen this as hard as you. But yeah, "MR equal knowledge/skill" I sometimes see. In general I see it as rule of thumb, rather than strict rules. Like MR 0-5 or 0-10 may not great for some hard content but for normal content they would be ok. 10-20 probably have enough knowledge/skill to complete harder content. And some content like E/DA would be great with high MR as it requires lot of gear but you can "cheese" it so it's not so necessary.

[FulfillMyWill]

2 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Yes I'm aware of that but it's also rude to just go into public sanctuary and do nothing.

There are ways of not leeching and not killing at the same time. Energy Vampire Trinity or Voracious Metastasis Hildryn are great at keeping your teammates' energy full. You can also armor trip enemies for better results.

Edited July 4 by FulfillMyWill

[Fred_Avant_2019]

il y a une heure, FulfillMyWill a dit :

There are ways of not leeching and not killing at the same time. Energy Vampire Trinity or Voracious Metastasis Hildryn are great at keeping your teammates' energy full. You can also armor trip enemies for better results.

Or all sorts of various buff oriented frames, Rhino with roar always helps.

[Traumtulpe]

8 hours ago, Vocation said:

I dropped the game again due to this. No way do I wanna equip low tier terribad guns just to gain levels, the dumbest system ever invented.

Oh boy, you really dodged a bullet there. Because currently (and for a while now) Warframes endgame consists of a mandatory randomizer. Forget leveling those terribad guns once for mastery; You're expected to level *all of them* *severeal times* to put a bunch of forma on *each and every one of them*.

You want to play with your favourite stuff? Well then you're playing pointless starchart missions, because in *all* of Warframes endgame, where the good items drop, you will be forced to play with random garbage.

[Zakkhar]

7 hours ago, Pakaku said:

so this is only a problem if you only play solo.

You can still get affinity for unused weapons (and amps) when you play solo. Just have to do missions with objectives (Spy seems to offer the best affinity). As for ESO, I used to run Trinity or Wisp to buff others, but nowdays 140% Roar does the job best.

37 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

You're expected to level *all of them* *severeal times* to put a bunch of forma on *each and every one of them*.

No, you are not. People who write this clearly do not understand this system. I am LR4, I have multidude weapons as MR fodder (no potato or single forma in them). I have been doing all randomized content since the begining of time (got everything from Duviri and doing every EDA 34-37) without much trouble and never felt a need to Forma/Potato any weapons I do not plan to use. I felt the need to potato/forma a few frames I did not normally use, because I found them fun.

Edited July 4 by Zakkhar

[Zakkhar]

2 hours ago, KIREEK said:

The idea is that if players wanting to join a clan see the recruiter at MR16, this ultimately discredits the recruiter/clanwarlord as a competent leader and players will seek out other clans.

If someone values MR higher than it actually is (requires zero skill, effort, knowledge or experience) that is their problem. I wouldnt want any of those players in my clan if I were you.

[Traumtulpe]

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

I am LR4

What a surprise, a person who collected literally every single last piece of garbage you can find in this game, every single rusty fork and broken butter knife, and this person is defending people being forced to collect all the garbage in this game. Who would have thunk.

[Zakkhar]

2 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

a person who collected literally every single last piece of garbage you can find in this game, every single rusty fork and broken butter knife

I did not. I still miss plenty Kuva/Tenet weapons (and a few rare drops here and there) and most of those I got are Mastery fodder and it took me literally 10 minutes to rank them up to 30 (after I obtained them). I deliberately left out certain Intrinsics unmaxed, I did not 5x forma stuff that is 5xformable beside 1-2 items. Certain weak items that got Incarnon Genesis upgrade recently I do not own either (ranked them up and sold them long ago and do not feel any need to capitalise on the fact that I own the Incarnons to them).

2 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

and this person is defending people being forced to collect all the garbage in this game

I do not defend any people. Please either take your time reading my posts or, if you did, do not put words into my mouth. May want to also take your time writing, because you have it completely wrong: You are the one that is feeling forced and I am obviously not defending you.

Game is not forcing anyone to do anything. You keep claiming so, because you personally may feel forced and it is ok, but please underline that it is your own opinion based on our own experience and game knowledge, because this feeling in my opinion comes from incomplete (or straight up wrong) understanding of the system.

I normally do not care about MR rankups and only when I am close to one I find it as a good secondary end goal to the game. But it is not mandatory for anyone. Anyone puts their goal as they prefer. A for randomised missions, I give you an example how to deal with it. I am puttting it in spoiler because honestly it has nothing to do with the topic.

Spoiler

This week EDA I got a choice of Baruuk, Garuda, Hydroid. I own all 3 but none have actually any proper build. Hydroid I used mostly prerework as specialized stationary lootframe, Baruuk was one of the frames i liked from Duviri and I decided to put a potato on him once I got Prime. Garuda is similar story except I experienced how overpowered her claws are. Neither of these have any forma in them, a few have empty slots in the setups. I could have picked anything but out of my experience both Baruuk and Garuda are quite immortal comparerd to Hydroid, so I decided between those two. 

Primaries, here is good choice (unlike the last week): Cedo, Zarr and Afentis. Zarr I got only normal one from long ago, with potato and 1 forma but it has nowhere near end game build. Afentis purely mastery fodder - i do not even think I got any mods installed on it. But Cedo I often use on a couple of framess, I got 4 forma in it. It is objectively a top tier shotgun.

Secondaries however: Tennet Diplos, Akzani, Twin Rogga (i think I see Twin Rogga 3rd or 4th time already). I have these but they were all mastery fodder and are unusable on anything SP. Pick Tenet diplos, equip it and never use it.

Melee: Anku, Pupacyst, Sun & Moon. Last is pretty good objetively, but I still did not plan to use it as I already have pretty big competition in used melees. Stance has ok dps, but no forced Bleeds. 

My mutators are: Gear Embargo, Secondary Wounds, Knifestep Syndrome and Transference Distortion. So in order to take all 4 I needed something that is pretty immortal as I wouldnt be able to take many hits and couldnt save myself/heal/stagger protect with Transference. I picked all 4 and originally Baruuk, Cedo, Tenet Diplos and Sun&Moon, only usable SP+ being Cedo and Desert Wind, but I had a fail group at first (one guy kept dying constantly and after being rezzed maybe 7 times he left, rest of the team spread thin and did not bother with the Necramechs. All in all we ran out of Air 30 seconds before the end. So I decided I need better carry and picked Garuda instead, with Melee Slot empty. That landed me on 34 RP and 65% dmg of my next squad done. Would I be able to do it on potatoless Garuda? Probably.

TL:DR you need literallyy 1 viable frame or/and 1 viable weapon in the options to succeed. If there is none you can with little to no cost drop one of the conditionals and pick your favourite OP frame instead of the choice. If the personal mutators hurt too much you can instead drop one of those (I often drop the -75% duration one)

 

 

Edited July 4 by Zakkhar

[Venus-Venera]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Vocation:

No way do I wanna equip low tier terribad guns just to gain levels, the dumbest system ever invented. 

system could actually work if most of the weapons weren't absolute garbage.
because either the gameplay is awful or the weapon doesn't do any damage with the best mods and then there's no ammunition either!

I've pimped way more than 50% of the weapons for SP Circuit. and I've experienced things that aren't OK at all...

[PollexMessier]

7 hours ago, FulfillMyWill said:

There are ways of not leeching and not killing at the same time. Energy Vampire Trinity or Voracious Metastasis Hildryn are great at keeping your teammates' energy full. You can also armor trip enemies for better results.

6 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Or all sorts of various buff oriented frames, Rhino with roar always helps.

Here is the problem with this, and I vaguely hinted at it with:

10 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

So it's really not that detrimental as long as the other players are also putting in an effort. Because the whole point of this strategy is team affinity.

You getting kills is helping other players who are also leveling their weapons get affinity.

Edited July 4 by PollexMessier

[Fred_Avant_2019]

7 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Here is the problem with this, and I vaguely hinted at it with:

You getting kills is helping other players who are also leveling their weapons get affinity.

Well, if you do have a Rhino's roar, even just putting unmaxed base damage and/or some 60-60 elemental mods on your "garbage" gear will work wonders.

Yes it's rude to get carried by teammates, but at the end of the day, if you're going to main revenant prime anyway, what is once in a lifetime ?

One thing I would say is, we should encourage people to farm for Smeeta Kavats for their Charm ability, that can potentially grant double affinity for 150 seconds. Maybe DE should make it a little easier to farm Kavats?

[Hobie-wan]

It amazes me sometimes the amount of forum people that post often enough that I recognize their name, but seem to actually hate the game. They're always posting to complain about some core system that is not going to change in any big way and have done for years. Do they constantly go back to protest outside a restaurant that once gave them a sub-par meal? Do they harass ex partner?

Back to the OP. If you can't simply play the items you enjoy and perhaps passively level up an item you find you don't using the suggestions offered above, then perhaps the game just isn't for you. It happens. You have given the game 2 tries and if it doesn't gel with you, then it doesn't. There are plenty of other games to play out there. But the MR system in the game is core and it isn't going to change.