Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is

[Kaiga]

I watched an ad for warframe today.

It showed a rhino battling up the stairs in a tusk plains base, jumping, hitting shots, taking cover, using abilities, finishing enemies, and generally being a space bada$$ in every sense of the word.

Well heck I'd play that game. 

But actual in game warframe?

Slam kong thermal sunder, 24/7. Aoe explosions fill the map. 

There is no threat to the survival of the player, no reason to even remember what the enemies do or even look like, as they're obliterated in seconds by nukes.

Why do any of that cool space ninja stuff from the ad when you can just shoot a rocket launcher at everything?

If this game had even a modicum of difficulty at higher levels, it would be capable of all that combat depth, which is what's being advertised, obviously.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 42 minutos, Kaiga dijo:

I watched an ad for warframe today.

It showed a rhino battling up the stairs in a tusk plains base, jumping, hitting shots, taking cover, using abilities, finishing enemies, and generally being a space bada$$ in every sense of the word.

Well heck I'd play that game. 

But actual in game warframe?

Slam kong thermal sunder, 24/7. Aoe explosions fill the map. 

There is no threat to the survival of the player, no reason to even remember what the enemies do or even look like, as they're obliterated in seconds by nukes.

Why do any of that cool space ninja stuff from the ad when you can just shoot a rocket launcher at everything?

If this game had even a modicum of difficulty at higher levels, it would be capable of all that combat depth, which is what's being advertised, obviously.

Lol, dude take easy. Just one thing, this game existed to be easy, see, if something it's a little hard in the game some ppl come and cry demanding for nerfs, then if something that the players have it's broke and DE nerf that, player go even more crazy crying, but you a crying for one ad? that the game is too easy? When every day you see a post about ppl crying because his age or his two neurons do not allow him/her to finish the new war?  It's a joke right? 

Warframe doesn't work for people the harder it is. If not, why cry for an eximus (jade) that is as simple as moving and killing it? ''why does he do too much damage'' they said, are we really talking about difficulty in this game? I really don't know what's on your mind when you see the community and what they complain about and then you still come and make this post.

Edited August 2 by CosoMalvadoNG

[(PSN)Unstar]

Warframe is a game that is successful because of how easy it is.  Whether you are a longtime gamer or new to the medium, whether you are disabled or not, whether or not you have a little or a lot of time to play, you're going to be able to tailor-make a loadout that fits your preferences and lets you succeed in all manner of content.

Your average casual player doesn't have even 5% of the knowledge that those of us on the forums have about the game, because they haven't devoted a PhD worth of time to studying the intricacies of Warframe's systems.  One side effect of becoming an expert at something: it becomes significantly easier for you.

For some folks that's a good thing, for some that's a bad thing.

[Pakaku]

Nukes are boring, but people play them because the grind is even more boring. I don't notice nearly as much nuking in the higher-level missions, though.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Unstar:

Warframe is a game that is successful because of how easy it is.  Whether you are a longtime gamer or new to the medium, whether you are disabled or not, whether or not you have a little or a lot of time to play, you're going to be able to tailor-make a loadout that fits your preferences and lets you succeed in all manner of content.

Your average casual player doesn't have even 5% of the knowledge that those of us on the forums have about the game, because they haven't devoted a PhD worth of time to studying the intricacies of Warframe's systems.  One side effect of becoming an expert at something: it becomes significantly easier for you.

For some folks that's a good thing, for some that's a bad thing.

yes. Above all, anyone can be a carry in public runs.
There is a topic in the offtopic at the moment. It is about toxic players. Because it is precisely this pleasant level of difficulty that prevents the toxic players from spreading their frustration from real life in the chat.

Or we see in the forum that certain people can hardly wait to insult, provoke and attack personally. They see enemies everywhere and make a Elephant out of a mosquito.

Edited August 2 by Venus-Venera

[Fallopia]

You can always run around with MK1 weapons if game is to easy.

[Venus-Venera]

Gerade eben schrieb Fallopia:

You can always run around with MK1 weapons if game is to easy.

or remove all mods. There are countless opportunities for "challenges"

[Waeleto]

Feel free to go solo with unmodded Rhino and mk1 weapons

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Literally nothing is stopping you from playing how you want. 

Don't worry how others play and make your own world. 

You're not the only person that takes single target into an SP survival.

[OniDax]

49 minutes ago, Kaiga said:

I watched an ad for warframe today.

It showed a rhino battling up the stairs in a tusk plains base, jumping, hitting shots, taking cover, using abilities, finishing enemies, and generally being a space bada$$ in every sense of the word.

Well heck I'd play that game. 

But actual in game warframe?

Slam kong thermal sunder, 24/7. Aoe explosions fill the map. 

There is no threat to the survival of the player, no reason to even remember what the enemies do or even look like, as they're obliterated in seconds by nukes.

Why do any of that cool space ninja stuff from the ad when you can just shoot a rocket launcher at everything?

If this game had even a modicum of difficulty at higher levels, it would be capable of all that combat depth, which is what's being advertised, obviously.

Even if the game was more difficult at higher levels, you wouldn't be able to do the things in the ad because the gameplay isn't designed like that. What holds Warframe back is outdated gameplay mechanics, outdated gameplay systems, and low quality design.

Edited August 2 by OniDax

[Prof-Dante]

9 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

or remove all mods. There are countless opportunities for "challenges"

that "remove all mods" argument is getting tiresome. like seriously, how many times do people have to say this before they realize that it adds nothing to the argument?

[Prof-Dante]

A better alternative to the silly suggestions above, is to do what I do and use old time, non meta, or gimmicky weapons and try to maximize them to the absolute.

make thematic builds that usually wouldn't work but somehow do.

 

for example, I finally crafted Aklex Prime, let me tell you, it's really weak...but I am enjoying how much I am trying to make it work.

[Venus-Venera]

Gerade eben schrieb Prof-Dante:

that "remove all mods" argument is getting tiresome. like seriously, how many times do people have to say this before they realize that it adds nothing to the argument?

That's just your opinion. You have to go into specific cases and details. Anyone can generalize anything. But that has nothing to do with reality.-

[Prof-Dante]

Just now, Venus-Venera said:

That's just your opinion. You have to go into specific cases and details. Anyone can generalize anything. But that has nothing to do with reality.-

Because this suggestion is a Lazy excuse to create difficulty.

I'm all for making my own scenarios, but it's better if I invite effort and critical thinking rather than "duuuh play with one eye closed".

For example, If I go around with an unmodded MK1 Braton, trying to make a challenging gameplay. I'm a complete Idiot.

but If I take Braton Prime (without incarnon) and maximized it. it's a lot better and more rewarding.

 

because when the former obviously fails you're just left there thinking "what was I even thinking??"

but if the latter fails "this weapon might not work, but let me try a different build/approach/strategy"

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

13 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

that "remove all mods" argument is getting tiresome. like seriously, how many times do people have to say this before they realize that it adds nothing to the argument?

We're more talking about rank 5 mods....rank 8 mods....no rivens if you'd like etc. 

I can keep typing suggestions as an example, but it'd take too long.

[kuciol]

You know what hard games have in common? In time players optimize out the fun out of them. They devolve into try hard meta fest with toxic comunity. Try getting into a raid that you havent done yet in WoW, you will know what i mean. Not all games must be like that. Warframe is great because you can have fun with suboptimal things. Nobody will care, hardly anyone even minds doing a carry. Let warframe be as chill as it is 

[NekroArts]

I didn't watch the ad for it and already it sounds like it was targeted at new players - you know the ones that aren't going to be at that power ceiling for a long while. They're the ones that will experience what was advertise for a majority of their gameplay, unless they get matchmade with an over-geared player, after that they'll slowly transition into what you described.

For them it will be (1) okay performance, (2) feeling OP, (3) no longer OP at "higher" levels, (4) farm for stronger stuff, then it loops back to 2 and the cycles continues. Depending on their attitude they'll either settle for the easy-AoE gameplay or they remained relatively "casual".

Edited August 2 by NekroArts

[Kaiga]

49 minutes ago, Fallopia said:

You can always run around with MK1 weapons if game is to easy.

Or, instead of ignoring content and intentionally limiting yourself because the devs have created an overtuned power fantasy- and hear me out here, crazy idea

The endgame content loops could actually be somewhat challenging and require more thinking than just mouse 1 in the general direction of mobs. This is a point that smacks of OWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAH I hate challenges in online games! Give me my participation trophies!

An unpopular opinion, truly, as the farmville idle masses cry out for an easier game, as player numbers continue to drop...

 

1 hour ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Lol, dude take easy. Just one thing, this game existed to be easy, see, if something it's a little hard in the game some ppl come and cry demanding for nerfs, then if something that the players have it's broke and DE nerf that, player go even more crazy crying, but you a crying for one ad? that the game is too easy? When every day you see a post about ppl crying because his age or his two neurons do not allow him/her to finish the new war?  It's a joke right? 

Warframe doesn't work for people the harder it is. If not, why cry for an eximus (jade) that is as simple as moving and killing it? ''why does he do too much damage'' they said, are we really talking about difficulty in this game? I really don't know what's on your mind when you see the community and what they complain about and then you still come and make this post.

Exhibit A

Edited August 2 by Kaiga

[ManoXXX]

There is no challenge in this game it is just not possible cause ppl dont even want to try,no one cares actually.

 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Prof-Dante:

Because this suggestion is a Lazy excuse to create difficulty.

I'm all for making my own scenarios, but it's better if I invite effort and critical thinking rather than "duuuh play with one eye closed".

For example, If I go around with an unmodded MK1 Braton, trying to make a challenging gameplay. I'm a complete Idiot.

but If I take Braton Prime (without incarnon) and maximized it. it's a lot better and more rewarding.

 

because when the former obviously fails you're just left there thinking "what was I even thinking??"

but if the latter fails "this weapon might not work, but let me try a different build/approach/strategy"

I see it differently. Because certain players want to improve their skills and understanding of the game. Low health and damage in particular can be very nerve-wracking. There are actually many much better games for this, but it is partly possible here too. Because it is not about resources, items, etc. because many have leg4 accounts and are swimming in resources and new updates are slow to arrive. And it is precisely these "challenges" that can provide new content. So do something that is very difficult.
There are also enough games where people have shown their skills. I first saw this in Quake3 mods, where it is about maps, where you have to move quickly and jump far. So it was not about fighting against other players at all.

[trst]

Unfortunately that ship has long sailed. DE has fostered too much of a player base that only cares about seeing their numbers get bigger and who've somehow convinced themselves that a more engaging game isn't worth having because they're bored of the current one. 

Your best bet is to try and walk the line between the game being an idle clicker and a spongey snooze fest. And hope that DE one day tries to make something actually engaging and doesn't ruin it (as always) because the casual players don't stop complaining. 

 

My advice: find some gimmick setups to play around and focus your builds on that. And instead of just "removing all your mods" or some other nonsense just find some limitations you're comfortable with. 

For instance I've found engagement with Vigorous Swap builds using weapons that benefit from reload while hosted effects. And I've restricted how I use Helminth by only using abilities that fit the frame's theme which prevents the issue of using the same ones on everything.

 

But sadly that is the reality of it. While it's not a reason to stop asking DE to fix their mistakes there's not much to be done about it until then. And unless/until DE wants to annoy the playerbase they created by fixing the game all we can do is find our own enjoyment in the mess they made. 

Edited August 2 by trst

[(PSN)Unstar]

37 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

that "remove all mods" argument is getting tiresome. like seriously, how many times do people have to say this before they realize that it adds nothing to the argument?

35 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

A better alternative to the silly suggestions above, is to do what I do and use old time, non meta, or gimmicky weapons and try to maximize them to the absolute.

For what it's worth, these are both just different flavors of the same thing: intentionally denying yourself some of the power you have access to.

The power loss is quantifiable in both scenarios, as is how much you need to adjust your preferred style of play.  If you like the Kuva Bramma but want a challenge, there's no other weapon that's going to give you that same precise experience.  Toning down or completely removing your mods is a valid suggestion for players hungry for a challenge, even if it isn't the one that you personally would prefer.

It's the exact same stuff that Dark Souls/Elden Ring players have been doing for years when they want to be challenged by a game they love but know inside-and-out.  You can use a crappy weapon, or you can limit your upgrades, not use certain tools, etc.  It's all just different routes to solving the same problem.  To outright dismiss one of these tactics needlessly removes a tool from the table, and one that many players have found helpful and enjoyable, at that.

[KitMeHarder]

1 hour ago, Kaiga said:

It showed a rhino battling up the stairs in a tusk plains base, jumping, hitting shots, taking cover, using abilities, finishing enemies, and generally being a space bada$$ in every sense of the word.

Sounds more like a B*tch by comparison. Who needs to be constantly jumping and "taking cover" when you can just casually stroll into a room, blow it up, and not look at the explosion?

So it sounds more like you want to play pretend at being a Badass more than you really want to be one. It's like those fake rich people that have to cover themselves in name-brands and logos because they think that's how you do it. All the while the actually rich people are in casual t-shirts and shorts, because they know they're Badass and they don't need to showboat.

[Zahnrad]

I wouldn't be against adding more difficulty to Warframe, but my concern is that most of the people wanting more difficulty, want to enforce that difficulty onto everyone else.

For example, what exactly do people WANT when they ask for difficulty? Because that's a very vague question with a lot of answers.

You could remove Shield Gating from Warframe, that would make things more difficult but I doubt that is what anyone wants.

 

I'm gonna take a game that does have extreme difficulty that turned me away from it and caused me to stop playing.

Path of Exile, it's fun to play through the campaign but then you reach a point where everything oneshots you, without anything like shield gating and you are forced to pick a mandatory meta archetype that everyone else is running during that same season.

It's a game that gives you the illusion of incredible build flexibility, but then actively punishes you for doing things outside of the meta by weakening your character as you progress through the campaign.

 

I don't want THAT to be Warframe.

Take Jade Eximus for instance, it was a change that effected core gameplay all across Warframe and completely disrupted the casual feel the game was known for.

And people who said "just move out of the way lmao" I feel are either intentionally being disingenous or are completely uncaring as to why people didn't like their inclusion.

Whether you like them or hate them, I think we can all agree it is something that changes gameplay and that's why a lot of people didn't like it.

[ManoXXX]

Ah well it is what it is