When is excavation going to get fixed?

[6tea]

I am currently typing this while in Steel Path Circuit. Why is excavation the most tedious mode? The excavators still don't scale after years. Enemies continue to ONE SHOT the excavator as it drops. I can only get 15 cryotic every 30~ seconds due to these issues. I can't run an endurance solo circuit because at certain point, excavation is going to take 10 minutes to complete. I'm playing with a buddy of mine and we cannot kill the enemies faster than they spawn to keep the excavator alive. The only warframe who I've seen make a difference, is Oberon. Even then, the armor he supplies is minimal.

Can excavation get replaced, removed, or reworked?

[4thBro]

3 minutes ago, 6tea said:

I am currently typing this while in Steel Path Circuit.

Yeah I bet you are, LOL!

 

Those things pop in the god damn stratosphere. Pretty good idea to extract, if enemies are level 1k or 2k and Excavation is next.

Definitely needs to be scaled properly... Defense, too, although slightly less of an issue.

[trst]

Likely never. Excavation was already once in DE's crosshairs for being the fastest endless mode and it's still one of, if not still, the fastest endless missions. Plus it's also a mode with no possible failure state so leaving them non-scaling doesn't cause active harm to the mission type.

Only way I can see them doing so is either with a nerf to the speed of the mission or if their speed gets massively powercrept by other mission types.

[Rathalio]

7 hours ago, 6tea said:

The excavators still don't scale after years.

They do though? At least in the circuit they definitely do. Just the enemies scale faster and at some point they get oneshoted anyways.

Generally that's the rules of the circuit, if you don't get access to any defensive strategies, at some points, you will have to leave early because of excavations and defences. At least you have not really a loose condition in excavation (other that using all your revives) if you went too greedy.

[Zakkhar]

7 hours ago, 6tea said:

Steel Path Circuit

Steel path missions cannot be played the same way as normal ones. There is more enemies present, they are tougher to kill, do more damage and they constantly respawn nearby up to the limit. You cannot expect to just hand around the Excavator on any frames and shoot the enemies. Well you can but it will fail.

Circuit is the fastest scaling SP mission mode atm (takes shortest to reach max level of 9999). If enemies of level 3500 can 1shot a Warframe, they can oneshot anything. No amount of HP/armor/DR scaling will make the Excavator survive if you do not change the approach for more SP oriented:

I once had a vey high level Circuit Excavation on Garuda, we had a bug+host migration and 2 remaining players ran out of Ressurection Stacks. I had to finish the mission solo, while completely lacking any CC. What I did was make the enemies chase me to the opposite side of the map - dash back, activate the Excavator and hope for the best. Not a single one fully finished, but I managed to chip 15-50 cryotic every time up till the limit. 

Edited August 13 by Zakkhar

[Tsukinoki]

6 hours ago, trst said:

it's also a mode with no possible failure state

This is one of the bigger issues with excavation.

You literally cannot fail the mode.  You can only ever make it take longer to finish the round even if you are just running through the spawn points and ignoring the excavators completely.

And it is still one of the faster endless mission types.

 

Unless their is some change to the mission type to actually have a possible way to lose the mission, I don't see DE doing anything at all to buff the excavators.  After all they don't want to create an AFK farm for infinite rewards.

[Zakkhar]

7 hours ago, 6tea said:

I can't run an endurance solo circuit because at certain point, excavation is going to take 10 minutes to complete.

There is no incentive to go past that certain point. Enemies get befier but you do not get more points. Just leave and requeue.

1 minute ago, Tsukinoki said:

You literally cannot fail the mode.

Sadly you can, due to many bugs.

Edited August 13 by Zakkhar

[Venus-Venera]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb 6tea:

I am currently typing this while in Steel Path Circuit. Why is excavation the most tedious mode? The excavators still don't scale after years. Enemies continue to ONE SHOT the excavator as it drops. I can only get 15 cryotic every 30~ seconds due to these issues. I can't run an endurance solo circuit because at certain point, excavation is going to take 10 minutes to complete. I'm playing with a buddy of mine and we cannot kill the enemies faster than they spawn to keep the excavator alive. The only warframe who I've seen make a difference, is Oberon. Even then, the armor he supplies is minimal.

Can excavation get replaced, removed, or reworked?

definitely! they also designed too much rubbish that hardly anyone seems to want to play. alchemy is one of them, because hardly anyone wants to collect the things seriously.

and circruit is at the top of my epic fail list. not just because of pointless randomness, but because rewards for invested time are the absolute rubbish. after incarnon it's not worth playing at all.

and excav is only playable if there is a cc warframe or hard hitter in the group. but you don't just have to have something like that, you also have to pimp it! because not everyone is there with a leg4 account and 60% pimped weapons...

examples:
zephyr - very good cc warframe that completely blocks PROJECTILES. so just shoot the jumping things and excav becomes very easy.

saryn, harrow, volt etc. - gun platforms that quickly get to millions of ranged crits and incoming damage is greatly reduced.

I had a good a group in public with too much CC. I was Zephyr, Oberon, Frost and Kullervo. Kullervo had the most kills and produced a lot of overkill damage. So with something like that you could play there forever without losing def obj. But such rolls are very rare and I usually get some unplayable garbage.

[latetier]

FROST PRIME might help with his bubble. and also whats her name that gives HP regen buff. wisp i think it was. her little buffs work on the excatavtors if i remember correctly. thats two supports that would already keep excavator alive for infinity. then just put in two big damage aoe frames and you will never have cryotic problems again.

i thought this was standard knowledge that you bring the right frames for the job. hrm 🤔

Edited August 13 by latetier

[Zakkhar]

33 minutes ago, latetier said:

thats two supports that would already keep excavator alive for infinity.

Not with the SP Circuit scaling. At some point there no amount of EHP/healing is going to help. You need strategy + cc.

[latetier]

1 minute ago, Zakkhar said:

Not with the SP Circuit scaling. At some point there no amount of EHP/healing is going to help. You need strategy + cc.

well yes i was not being literal with infinite part. it was a figure of speech for effect, but anyway 1 hour mission is good enough for most people. 2 hour is really pushing it. 3 = no life no job no eat, plz dont do this

Edited August 13 by latetier

[trst]

3 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Sadly you can, due to many bugs.

Unless there's a bug that literally prevents Excavators from spawning before the first A rotation is done there's still no failure state. And even then in that scenario you're talking about a bug that fails the mission within the first 3 minutes.

[Hobie-wan]

Some players: The game is too easy, make it harder!

Some players (sometimes the same ones): OMG this one aspect is too hard to continue past a certain ridiculous level even though it's especially pointless to do so!

[Mr-Lex]

7 hours ago, latetier said:

FROST PRIME might help with his bubble. and also whats her name that gives HP regen buff. wisp i think it was. her little buffs work on the excatavtors if i remember correctly. thats two supports that would already keep excavator alive for infinity. then just put in two big damage aoe frames and you will never have cryotic problems again.

i thought this was standard knowledge that you bring the right frames for the job. hrm 🤔

Actively doesn't work, frosts bubble doesn't scale well so eventually just gets one shot alongside the excavator and also no amount of health regen matters because you can't regen from 0 so if the excavator is being one shot this actively does absolutely nothing. The most efficient way to reduce excavator death is crowd controlling the map so no enemy moves. That is where frost is more valuable.

Edited August 13 by Mr-Lex

[Mr-Lex]

They should just change excavation to a narmer/sentient breach mode. 2 waves of 10 mins where the enemy is trying to capture the center of the map similar to the bounties on cetus. It's a minor dps check and a minor time gate also have at the 8 min mark on both a void angel spawn to "Disrupt" all sides of the confrontation. If that doesn't work lore wise literally narmer/sentient with whatever faction you want or the void angel with whatever boss you want.

 

It's less annoying than playing excavation and people will argue on both sides but it's irrelevant, sure it's a mission you can't fail but it's just #*!%ing tedious. They'll say that's the incentive to leave but that literally changes nothing in the grand scheme of what you earn. If i want to push to level 10 in 2 hours from just one play through or level 10 through 10 play throughs the rewards don't change what does change though is team composition and the amount of immersion from having to leave over and over again.

 

 

Edited August 13 by Mr-Lex

[Voltage]

20 hours ago, trst said:

Likely never. Excavation was already once in DE's crosshairs for being the fastest endless mode and it's still one of, if not still, the fastest endless missions. Plus it's also a mode with no possible failure state so leaving them non-scaling doesn't cause active harm to the mission type.

Only way I can see them doing so is either with a nerf to the speed of the mission or if their speed gets massively powercrept by other mission types.

I mean, every time Excavation was an efficient farm, it got powercrept and/or nerfed. Excavation Arbitration rotations were heavily nerfed, hence why the meta shifted to speed-nuke maps, Relics are better earned from Disruption, and the same happened to Endo from Arena. This mode's relevancy hinges on a couple old item crafts like Sibear. The modern use of Cryotic is quite limited, and The Circuit only makes this bearable through the Decree system and all objectives boiling down to speed-nuking. 

This mode could definitely use an overhaul, especially in the way the objectives behave with certain enemies, and the lack of fail state. I'm going to be honest, I feel like all missions should have some kind of fail state, as even Capture does. The lack of risk/consequences in mission is part of why newer modes like EDA or the original Arbitrations were more fun. Missions like Ascension are just numbing.

[TARINunit9]

20 hours ago, trst said:

Plus it's also a mode with no possible failure state

 

14 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

You literally cannot fail the mode. 

Strictly speaking, yes you can: by running out of revives. Not that this is likely in the current meta

[Kaiga]

7 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

Some players: The game is too easy, make it harder!

Some players (sometimes the same ones): OMG this one aspect is too hard to continue past a certain ridiculous level even though it's especially pointless to do so!

If you think the excavators having unscaled health against level 1000 enemies is "difficulty", idk what to tell ya man, you don't seem like you play the game.
There's no guarantee of the CC or tools required to protect said objectives from ranged mobs being available in the circuit, and with THAT little health, you're handicapped by those very loadout restrictions. It's not really a challenge if it could be done easily with the gear of your choice, is it? It's just loss of the proper tools for the job masquerading as difficulty.

[latetier]

14 hours ago, Mr-Lex said:

Actively doesn't work, frosts bubble doesn't scale well so eventually just gets one shot alongside the excavator and also no amount of health regen matters because you can't regen from 0 so if the excavator is being one shot this actively does absolutely nothing. The most efficient way to reduce excavator death is crowd controlling the map so no enemy moves. That is where frost is more valuable.

please be more accurate with how you represent how things work.

it absolutely works TO A POINT. if your doing over hours++++ excavations then duh the effectiveness of his bubble and wisps health buff goes down. but you shouldn't be doing those runs where you go for infinite hours anyway.

Edited August 14 by latetier

[Hobie-wan]

17 hours ago, Kaiga said:

If you think the excavators having unscaled health against level 1000 enemies is "difficulty", idk what to tell ya man, you don't seem like you play the game.

Read what I wrote again.

Here, lemme add a third line...

Some other very sweaty players: OMG how dare DE not balance the game perfectly up to level 1000 enemies and beyond. Obviously 97.3% of the playerbase regularly play missions up to this absurd level and they should have thought of this and spent many hours tweaking everything for the massive gains in playability it will afford everyone!

[GEN-Son_17]

On 2024-08-13 at 2:10 PM, Mr-Lex said:

Actively doesn't work, frosts bubble doesn't scale well so eventually just gets one shot alongside the excavator and also no amount of health regen matters because you can't regen from 0 so if the excavator is being one shot this actively does absolutely nothing. The most efficient way to reduce excavator death is crowd controlling the map so no enemy moves. That is where frost is more valuable.

What do you mean it doesn't scale well? It absorbs enemy damage for 4 seconds, and then you can cast over it to absorb that HP and scale even further. As long as energy is good, you shouldn't have issues with the ice bubble. 

As others have said though, OP's issue is the direct result of the game exceeding his build and his/her capabilities with that setup. I can nearly go forever with Loki, Frost, Gara, Ember, Inaros, Nidus, Zephyr and Kullervo...but struggle with many others. It's all about aggro control and getting to the two biggest threats: the Corpus shotgun dude and the melee thrax.