The prologue quest was a disappointment

[Circle_of_Psi]

4 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Oh yeah , guess the update wasnt disappointing enough already.

Indeed

[Aerikx]

5 hours ago, Sentinel-14 said:

Drifter will be using the Vessels to inhabit the 1999 characters

The Vessels are a plot hole.

We go back to 1999 with OUR Arsenal, we do not inhabit or play as the 1999 characters. Rebecca confirmed this during Tennocon. 

We only play as Arthur during the 1999 intro.

[2003kamil]

17 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

@2003kamil I made this for you, hope you enjoy it lol

As soon as I saw you speak about a achievement I knew I had to find this and make this

Holy sh im dead lmao

This is perfect

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Rhagius said:

it's less the expectation of more, but the question why they even bothered, they could have just let us play this as the intro to the next questline. i didn't think we learned anything new either. since there is romance involved, only the drifter could be sent back or did you expect them to allow kids/teens to romance adults?

the other changes have nothing to do with the quest, so i view them as separate additions and i agree that these are nice

The new things we learned was that both exsist in reality, while prior to this prologue it has been up for debate what actually happened to the other when we made the choice we made in TNW. Did one get consumed by the other or not? It also gives more sense to why it was the operator in the Jade Shadows quest and not just whichever of the two we've chosen. The second part we learned is whom Wally is actually interested in, giving the two very distinct roles to play in future lore. Which also means that the "chosen" that Albrecht was looking for wasnt the tenno, but the Drifter most likely.

2 hours ago, Aerikx said:

The Vessels are a plot hole.

We go back to 1999 with OUR Arsenal, we do not inhabit or play as the 1999 characters. Rebecca confirmed this during Tennocon. 

We only play as Arthur during the 1999 intro.

The first part will likely be "Assassin Creed" where we go inside them through the vessels. Then the whole infested ceiling cooch things we saw with Excal happens and we get there physically. Could be that the vessels will serve as conduits to strengthen the transference between Drifter and the frames we physically send to 1999.

Edited August 22 by SneakyErvin

[quxier]

12 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

• The whole Lotus is here to appetitize Wally wasn't very well executed. There was nothing that really showed how she is being affected by him, which is what we'd expect (ie: Erra and Ballas throwing Lotus to reignite Phragasa).

Lotus says that she want to give Operator. She have that weird 'dreamy' face.

10 hours ago, Aerikx said:

12 hours ago, matt11mz said:

1. Operator is too closely connected to Wally to confront him, so Drifter has to be the one to do it.

Which is non-sensical. If the reasoning is: "Going after The Indifference could cause it to take your powers" then the fight is already over. The Indifference can strip the Operator of their powers at any time. 

All she really did was confirm that The Indifference isn't happy with us anymore.

So they are not Indifferent anymore? *ba dum tsss*

Joking aside, I don't think it's on-off situation. I think that just Operator will have more problems than Drifter.

10 hours ago, TeaHands said:

Since Lotus is now in the Sanctum Anatomica, can we hug her too?

Hug space mommy? Yeah. :D

42 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

The second part we learned is whom Wally is actually interested in, giving the two very distinct roles to play in future lore. Which also means that the "chosen" that Albrecht was looking for wasnt the tenno, but the Drifter most likely.

At the end of the quest we can see Wally playing with Lotus so it wasn't really anything new, imho. More like 100% confirmations.

 

[Rhagius]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The new things we learned was that both exsist in reality, while prior to this prologue it has been up for debate what actually happened to the other when we made the choice we made in TNW.

it's still up to debate, though. how would both exist in the same timeline/universe and what if lotus is just able to perceive both of them in their own timelines?

Drifter and Tenno being able to act independently from one another at the same time in the same timeline opens a whole can of worms about what we are. if it is true that they act and have personality while we, the player, are not in them, being their consciousness, then that would mean we are some sort of parasite high jacking/overriding their brains.

Until now i saw it as a gameplay decision to let us choose which one to play as after we chose a canonical timeline for ourselves due to eternalism shenanigans.

[0_The_F00l]

27 minutes ago, Rhagius said:

it's still up to debate, though. how would both exist in the same timeline/universe and what if lotus is just able to perceive both of them in their own timelines?

Drifter and Tenno being able to act independently from one another at the same time in the same timeline opens a whole can of worms about what we are. if it is true that they act and have personality while we, the player, are not in them, being their consciousness, then that would mean we are some sort of parasite high jacking/overriding their brains.

Until now i saw it as a gameplay decision to let us choose which one to play as after we chose a canonical timeline for ourselves due to eternalism shenanigans.

I agree with this , it doesnt really confirm they exist in the same time and space (any more than events in the past atleast) ,

i think Lotus is able to perceive both of the entities,

but her void addled mind isnt able to tell the difference between which is where and thinks she is talking to both right there.

For all i know it was never the operator that arrived to answer the call if you know what i mean :D.

[Geometries62]

Despite its shortness Lotus eater gave us one neat thing, being able to choose dialog lines both for drifter and operator. I honestly do not remember any RPG with that option. 

[Circle_of_Psi]

5 hours ago, 2003kamil said:

Holy sh im dead lmao

This is perfect

You are very welcome!

[Tr0yMC]

Yes, really boring (even the last “quest” was boring). They should just make a video and be done with it. But selling it as a quest is really cheeky. They should rather take care of the many bugs that have been around for ages.

[UNO168]

DE, a 1 min conversation plus running through a mall is NOT a quest, even by YOUR standard, an in-game mail can easily solve this. but I guess you gotta sell something in tennocon.

Please if you have nothing to share with us then DON'T do the tennocon, right now you guys are doing tennocon to sell tickets, not because you have something to tell us. at least that's how I feel.

Also during tennocon, announcing something gonna be announced in another event is ridiculous. don't you think?  it's like in your birthday and you tell us your gonna announce when and where you're gonna do baby shower next week during your nephew's birthday.

Bro please.

the only thing that I'm grateful is I don't have to be an emotional wreck like the last quest(elevator) you gave us.

[FabiTheSnake]

The problem really wasn´t the quest you all. It was the Pacing, the place we got it, the way we got it. 
You underestimate the importance of it, as DE is aswell. 

This is already the problem with the Sacrifice - New War intermission. 
B4 we had to do certain things, No waypoint/instruction for Chimera Prologue, = a surprise and a twist that was very well placed. not immediately after an Emotional Story-heavy quest.
The Erra cinematic being an Easter-egg in the Veil Proxima, not only gives you time to digest the Sacrifice and Chimera prologue, but also leads players to Level up theyr RJ for the actual Quest a bit. 
The Maker when you have all requirements Right before the New War Quest. 

Of course there are other issues, the lack of the Events giving a great deal to making it all feel more... Impactfull.
The same thing happened here. 

The solution would have been to sneak it in, or Release it right Before 1999. 
Imagine we had no word of this prologue, and you would stumble into Lotus Randomly. Way better Feeling with that. 



 

[matt11mz]

9 hours ago, Aerikx said:

The Vessels are a plot hole.

We go back to 1999 with OUR Arsenal, we do not inhabit or play as the 1999 characters. Rebecca confirmed this during Tennocon. 

We only play as Arthur during the 1999 intro.

I feel like Lotus Eaters clarifies this. Drifter is the only one who can safely "answer the call," most likely meaning he's the only one who can enter 1999 without drawing Wally's attention. From what I guess, the vessels can be used by Drifter, while Operator has to find another way in.

That assumes, however, that everything will be 100% set up immediately on entering 1999. Maybe the Vessels are temporary. Use the protoframes to bring our frames out to the core game loop. Once Drifter guides the way, we can be free to use whatever and whoever (as in Drifter or Operator) we want in 1999.

[SneakyErvin]

21 hours ago, Rhagius said:

it's still up to debate, though. how would both exist in the same timeline/universe and what if lotus is just able to perceive both of them in their own timelines?

Drifter and Tenno being able to act independently from one another at the same time in the same timeline opens a whole can of worms about what we are. if it is true that they act and have personality while we, the player, are not in them, being their consciousness, then that would mean we are some sort of parasite high jacking/overriding their brains.

Until now i saw it as a gameplay decision to let us choose which one to play as after we chose a canonical timeline for ourselves due to eternalism shenanigans.

How? Because they got physically seperated at the deal, turning into two unique individuals. They are also both talking to eachother there.

I dont see how that is a problem since they are really just the protagonist(s) of the story and in the game eternalism is supposedly real.

But there is no canonical timeline with eternalism, since everything that can happen will happen, has happened or is happening. Which also means that whatever happens to the Tenno as you play the Drifter would have happened eitherway. Just as what you do when playing the Drifter is the "reality" your Drifter percieves at that moment, but everything else also happens all the same.

20 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I agree with this , it doesnt really confirm they exist in the same time and space (any more than events in the past atleast) ,

i think Lotus is able to perceive both of the entities,

but her void addled mind isnt able to tell the difference between which is where and thinks she is talking to both right there.

For all i know it was never the operator that arrived to answer the call if you know what i mean :D.

But both are there and physically interacting with eachother aswell. Not just with the Lotus. 

I mean we are at a point where you are adding extreme headcanon. Since now Lotus can suddenly see things that she has never seen before for a reason not explained whatsoever in the game. The most simple explaination is most often the correct one.

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

But both are there and physically interacting with eachother aswell. Not just with the Lotus.

You may have seen more than i , i dont recollect any actual interaction between them only that they look at the centre of the screen , the same place the warframe is placed. If mere presence is good enough for you then there are other sections in the game where both do look at each other.

As to the "dialogue" with Lotus , The Operator says something and the drifter says something , they could be divided by a literal wall at two different times and the conversation would still go exactly like that without any actual impact.

Lotus could  have space magic Alzheimers and it would still make sense.,

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

I mean we are at a point where you are adding extreme headcanon. Since now Lotus can suddenly see things that she has never seen before for a reason not explained whatsoever in the game. The most simple explaination is most often the correct one.

Adding extreme headcannon? or are you simply not having enough imagination and attention span?  The lotus is changed on multiple levels, she has awakened to her sentient powers and memories, been traumatized by the death of her family (along with the actions she performed under the influence of magic hypnotism) , used as a power source to power her dead mother , been killed , used in bits and pieces as a guiding beacon , turned to an eidolon , brought back to life with powers of archon shards , faced the wall of lohk (and potentially made a deal with him) and can now hear the call of the void where others cannot - You think none of these are justifiable reasons ?

 I am perfectly happy with simple explanations , occhams razor is rather sharp in most cases. But had you though of eternalism before DE came up with it? maybe, maybe not , dont think it was a simple explanation myself (though definitely an easy one to write away all the different plot holes).

But just because its simple does not mean it ends a debate or is actually right.

[Rhagius]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

How? Because they got physically seperated at the deal, turning into two unique individuals. They are also both talking to eachother there.

I dont see how that is a problem since they are really just the protagonist(s) of the story and in the game eternalism is supposedly real.

But there is no canonical timeline with eternalism, since everything that can happen will happen, has happened or is happening.

wanted to focus on this, as it is the most interesting part of the idea of eternalism.

we are choosing the answer for the operator and the drifter as both are us at different times/timelines experiencing "now" at the same time and place. If you let them exist at the same time in a single timeline (which is not what happened during the deal if i interpret that right: that seemed to be a meeting between two different timelines at a point halfway between our reality and the void which facilitates the connection and makes that even possible - see how the new lotus scene played out in a location where the void has a lot of influence to facilitate another meeting) then we suddenly have the issue that one part has to be controlled by something or someone that is not us at the same time. And that doesn't make sense, because we are always the one controlling "now"( again, why we were able to choose both dialogues), that's our role as the player: the consciousness driving the character to act, how could we be at two places at the same time and not know what is happening to the other us?

 

the canonical timeline (for us players) seems to be the one we choose, otherwise we'd have to act through every permutation of events and situations at some point

[matt11mz]

21 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

You may have seen more than i , i dont recollect any actual interaction between them only that they look at the centre of the screen , the same place the warframe is placed. If mere presence is good enough for you then there are other sections in the game where both do look at each other.

While I'm not sure on both being 100% separate physically, (they DID do this in the Void half of the Sanctum, so idk if that influences anything), there is one dialogue choice that shows they are at least aware that both are appearing in front of Lotus. One of Drifter's lines is "Hey, you're scaring the kid." so he is at least aware that Operator knows what's happening. Still room for debate, but my credits are on them both being there.

[OrionHisSon]

On 2024-08-21 at 2:11 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Valid points here for sure. Our communications regarding The Lotus Eaters wavered between calling it a Quest and also a Prologue, which is a confusing misstep on our part. We should have been labeling it as a Prologue from the get-go and be explicit on just how short, as even saying “short Quest” holds historical context. 

We recognize our new personal record in Prologue length, and our intention wasn’t to overhype it. Setting the 1999 stage of “how and who goes to 1999” was important for us to tell even in its small package within the short amount of development time we had between Jade Shadows and TennoCon.

Appreciate the feedback as always, Tenno! Unannounced Fall Update is next and 1999 coming this winter! 

Apostasy Prologue.

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

You may have seen more than i , i dont recollect any actual interaction between them only that they look at the centre of the screen , the same place the warframe is placed. If mere presence is good enough for you then there are other sections in the game where both do look at each other.

As to the "dialogue" with Lotus , The Operator says something and the drifter says something , they could be divided by a literal wall at two different times and the conversation would still go exactly like that without any actual impact.

Lotus could  have space magic Alzheimers and it would still make sense.,

You're seriously saying you missed when the Drifter looks at and talks at/to/about the Operator, saying "leave the kid alone" or something similar to Lotus?

22 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Adding extreme headcannon? or are you simply not having enough imagination and attention span?  The lotus is changed on multiple levels, she has awakened to her sentient powers and memories, been traumatized by the death of her family (along with the actions she performed under the influence of magic hypnotism) , used as a power source to power her dead mother , been killed , used in bits and pieces as a guiding beacon , turned to an eidolon , brought back to life with powers of archon shards , faced the wall of lohk (and potentially made a deal with him) and can now hear the call of the void where others cannot - You think none of these are justifiable reasons ?

 I am perfectly happy with simple explanations , occhams razor is rather sharp in most cases. But had you though of eternalism before DE came up with it? maybe, maybe not , dont think it was a simple explanation myself (though definitely an easy one to write away all the different plot holes).

But just because its simple does not mean it ends a debate or is actually right.

Yes none of those are justifiable reasons, since many can hear the call of the Void, which we've known since we met the Holdfast. Because I hope you dont mean her having the phone, since that phone has been in that spot ever since WitW was released. Other than that the Void is no more heard by her than it is by us when Wally visits.

And "DE came up with it" regarding eternalism? No DE did not come up with eternalism, it is a real concept of time, or the lack of time. They just added it as the Orokin doctrine as opposed to other theories regarding time. There is no reason to think that the two protagonists arent physically there as we speak to Lotus, since there isnt anything aside from our Drifter assuming something earlier about co-exsistance. It was a bit confusing as to what happened when one absorbed the other during TNW. But now when Lotus is clearly pointing out that the two are different and obviously not part of eachother as the same, it is quite clear there are two. Saying they are in different spots and not there is just overcomplicating things for no reason whatsoever, especially when one looks and talks to/at the other, by looking to where he stands in relation to the Lotus and the Drifter himself.

18 hours ago, Rhagius said:

wanted to focus on this, as it is the most interesting part of the idea of eternalism.

we are choosing the answer for the operator and the drifter as both are us at different times/timelines experiencing "now" at the same time and place. If you let them exist at the same time in a single timeline (which is not what happened during the deal if i interpret that right: that seemed to be a meeting between two different timelines at a point halfway between our reality and the void which facilitates the connection and makes that even possible - see how the new lotus scene played out in a location where the void has a lot of influence to facilitate another meeting) then we suddenly have the issue that one part has to be controlled by something or someone that is not us at the same time. And that doesn't make sense, because we are always the one controlling "now"( again, why we were able to choose both dialogues), that's our role as the player: the consciousness driving the character to act, how could we be at two places at the same time and not know what is happening to the other us?

 

the canonical timeline (for us players) seems to be the one we choose, otherwise we'd have to act through every permutation of events and situations at some point

We simply chose the answers due to roleplay perspectives, just as you chose several different conversation options in something like Baldur's Gate or Divinity. But we are really only one of the characters, the one we chose to play beyond the time we get the choice to chose. Or if we ever get forced into playing the other, where they are no longer us more than the Stalker, Vepo, Kahl or Teshin were us. They've been distinct individuals from the moment of the deal, where Wally rips the Drifter out of the Tenno and traps him instead of saving him (since he never promised he would save the Tenno that made the deal, just all the other children, he does however also save the Tenno that made the deal, just as he also doesnt save it at the same time).

The Drifter is in the same "timeline", but he is stuck in the Void, within a pocket dimension at that, where time doesnt flow linear with how reality is observed. He makes it out of the Void at an appropriate moment to help with the events of TNW. This leads to some questionable things, like when powers are absorbed, since we dont meet the other after that point, so many assumed the other was absorbed and us being able to freely pick between the two after that was just gameplay options so cosmetics and so on arent just lost. But with Jade Shadows that forced the operator, that was visited in our Orbiter by Stalker, and now Lotus Eaters that show both Operator and Drifter together very likely means they both do exsist at once and even share the Orbiter. Since there is no indication in the Jade Shadows story that it takes place at any other moment of time.

However, saying "timeline" is also wrong, since we are talking Eternalism. So it is all about what we observe, which results in what we percieve as reality. There arent a multitude of different timelines etc. So the Drifter and the Operator are there, since it is practically the Drifter that observes both the Operator and Lotus and percieves that as reality. At the same time there is also a version where the Operator observes the Lotus and the Drifter, where potentially another choice is made, where maybe the Lotus sends the Operator, or hands him over. But we'll never experience that since it has happened, happens or will happen in the very moment we obeserve and experience the event of the prologue as they played out in it. 

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

You're seriously saying you missed when the Drifter looks at and talks at/to/about the Operator, saying "leave the kid alone" or something similar to Lotus?

That's your first mistake right there mate , you assume everyone makes the same dialogue choices and has the same experience. So to answer you , No , i did not miss it cause it was not part of my experience and choices in the quest. Thats why i said you may have seen more than me. There are 6 dialogue choices and each is different.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yes none of those are justifiable reasons, since many can hear the call of the Void, which we've known since we met the Holdfast. Because I hope you dont mean her having the phone, since that phone has been in that spot ever since WitW was released. Other than that the Void is no more heard by her than it is by us when Wally visits.

Hah , you are free to your opinions , wrong as they may be. Any of the experiences that lotus had is capable of changing her. The lotus you speak to now is not the same lotus that put you in the transference chair. She is also not the same one that abandoned you and left with Ballas, you can stay in denial as much as you wish.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

And "DE came up with it" regarding eternalism? No DE did not come up with eternalism, it is a real concept of time, or the lack of time. They just added it as the Orokin doctrine as opposed to other theories regarding time.

Taking things literally to defend yourself i see , very well lets clarify cause clearly you are choosing to not understand context or using ignorance to add confusion.So , DE came up with the idea to INCLUDE the concept of eternalism in their storytelling so they can get away with pretty much any plot holes that may have happened , already exist or may happen in the future. If they didnt do this and stuck to classical timeline (or branching multiverse) theory then most of the lore would fall short of making sense.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

There is no reason to think that the two protagonists arent physically there as we speak to Lotus, since there isnt anything aside from our Drifter assuming something earlier about co-exsistance. It was a bit confusing as to what happened when one absorbed the other during TNW. But now when Lotus is clearly pointing out that the two are different and obviously not part of eachother as the same, it is quite clear there are two. Saying they are in different spots and not there is just overcomplicating things for no reason whatsoever, especially when one looks and talks to/at the other, by looking to where he stands in relation to the Lotus and the Drifter himself.

You really do lack imagination , those that want simple answers usually do , not much i can do about that.

[chofranc]

All this problem could have been easily resolved by just calling the update "SEVAGOTH PRIME" like some of the previous update that came with a prime a nothing big but QoL changes and bugfixes, the previous prologue quests where short like this one but they worked because they wheren't the main update(Chain of Harrows and The Sacrifice). They shoot themselves in the foot by naming the update like the Prologue which implied something bigger, the quest doesn't even explain or gives a hint on what even the title means(Lotus Eaters). In the Apostasy, Lotus abandons her belief and goes with Ballas, an so is an apostasy, in the Chimera Prologue, we see that Ballas is merged with Sentient parts and thus it becomes a chimera, an hybrid being.

Edited August 25 by chofranc

[0_The_F00l]

15 hours ago, matt11mz said:

While I'm not sure on both being 100% separate physically, (they DID do this in the Void half of the Sanctum, so idk if that influences anything), there is one dialogue choice that shows they are at least aware that both are appearing in front of Lotus. One of Drifter's lines is "Hey, you're scaring the kid." so he is at least aware that Operator knows what's happening. Still room for debate, but my credits are on them both being there.

Oh yes , the point of my argument is that it's not clear cut on what's happening.

(and not that my view is the only correct version of events.)

Depending on your choices you may get completely independent dialogues or ones where there is some interaction. 

Mine was completely independent. Yours was clearly not. Hence there is a scope for debate.

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

That's your first mistake right there mate , you assume everyone makes the same dialogue choices and has the same experience. So to answer you , No , i did not miss it cause it was not part of my experience and choices in the quest. Thats why i said you may have seen more than me. There are 6 dialogue choices and each is different.

So what happened in your dialogue? Anyways, it is clearly intended that both are there since the outcome of one talking at/to the other is there. While facing them aswell.

20 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Hah , you are free to your opinions , wrong as they may be. Any of the experiences that lotus had is capable of changing her. The lotus you speak to now is not the same lotus that put you in the transference chair. She is also not the same one that abandoned you and left with Ballas, you can stay in denial as much as you wish.

Of course she isnt the same. But that isnt the point I'm arguing against. You are just adding unknown attributes to her, that comes from practically nowhere. There are plenty of people that can hear and see the Void.

20 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Taking things literally to defend yourself i see , very well lets clarify cause clearly you are choosing to not understand context or using ignorance to add confusion.So , DE came up with the idea to INCLUDE the concept of eternalism in their storytelling so they can get away with pretty much any plot holes that may have happened , already exist or may happen in the future. If they didnt do this and stuck to classical timeline (or branching multiverse) theory then most of the lore would fall short of making sense.

But that isnt how it works, so no they cant. They would have to change it to a completely new reality (a new point of observation), since the only thing out of the ordinary (for eternalism) is that one thing got ripped out physically by Wally in order to coexsist in one reality. Since the Drifter has always been in the same reality as the tenno, only seperated from it within a pocket dimension. Otherwise the tenno would have never been able to observe the Drifter nor the Drifter being able to observe the tenno. Since the observed reality is bleeding through into Duviri and Duviri is bleeding out into reality since the membrane is under pressure. Anything they wanna change will all come down to the Void and has little to do with eternalism itself, since the Void simply breaks laws and is completely made up as it is used in the game.

If they had a multiverse timeline setup, more things would in reality make sense, since suddenly plot holes and lore holes could come from another verse. But with eternalism, the different perspectives do not mix, Drifter being the exception due to what Wally did. If we were able to enter another "reality" within the concept of eternalism it wouldnt result in a DC or Marvel thing, where we'd have Earth-1 and Earth-616 Batman as two seperates, we'd just observe reality in a different way while there would still just be one us, and we would likely be unaware of it.

20 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

You really do lack imagination , those that want simple answers usually do , not much i can do about that.

No I have plenty of imagination. There is just no point to it when we know what the game is rooted in, what theories are supposed to be reality within the universe and so on. Then we also have how things are animated within the prologue, how the Drifter acts towards both Lotus and Operator, along with as I mentioned in my previous post, that the Operator is clearly also using the Orbiter, as seen in Jade Shadows, which takes place after TNW. Which places him smack in the middle of reality.

[Alpha545]

Much like with Jade Shadows and practically everything that has come before that, it grinds my gears how much Warframe's story/writing/dialogue/worldbuilding seems averse to having people understand it. It's never willing to sit you down an explain what's going, why it's going on, what people want and what they know. I want to get invested in the story, I *want* to like it, but there's this barrier that I can't get through, like the story doesn't actually want me along.

For instance, I still don't know what the Lotus really wants. I feel like every time we get anything from her it's in some sort of mind-altered state. In the early game she is implied to be under some sort of mind-control from Ballas so as to function as the Lotus, then when Ballas shows up she is overtly being affected by something, she seems to alternate between confidently anti-orokin/anti-tenno and *confused*. Then after absorbing a few archon shards she seems to sort-of go back to early game Lotus except that I'm suspicious as to how she reacts to the Operator trying to help. It doesn't give me protective vibes (although I expect that protective vibes *was* what was intended), more 'leave me alone' vibes. (In fact it kinda feels like we bullied her into becoming the Lotus again as a result.)
Anyhow, now during Lotus Eaters she is apparently affected by Wally, so we have the same issue again. In fact she says she want to give us to Wally and I just don't know what to make of it. All of this has left me in a state of "I just don't know :(".

I would like to know: who is the Lotus at this point? What are her motivations? Does she care about the Operator? About the Tenno? About her work as the Lotus?
And for anyone who has an answer to these questions: why do you think that that is the answer?

[Rhagius]

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

snip

you clearly remembered the storyline better than i did. i must have headcanoned the multiverse timeline thing together with eternalism at some point, but all of that really doesn't change the icky feeling of what happens with us being the consciousness, the "tenno" and having so many contradictory things presented in the game now. if the drifter and operator got physically split and are both present and active at the same time and in the same universe, then one has to operate with a different ego/consciousness than us. and if that is the case, we should not be allowed to make decisions for the one we didn't choose ( andi don't think liking ot to other rpgs is fair, as that would throw the whole concept of the players being the tennos straight out of the window) and we shouldn't be able to switch.

i am willing to put this to DE simply retconning us being the actual tenno consiousness and now we are just people playing multiple characters, but i think that massively sucks in comparison.