Time to do a send off for The Operator

[Aerikx]

It's been a hell of a ride. Was one hell of a twist back in the day.

However, Warframe is evolving.

Just like the implementation of Bullet Jump and free flow movement versus the limited Dead Space-ish movement, the drastic shift away from being 'Space Ninjas', and the embracing of absolute Power Fantasy. 

It's pretty clear now that Warframe's direction has shifted to tell the story of The Drifter, a 'Living Paradox'. 

And while I personally do not like The Drifter, the untapped potential and story telling that such a character.

Just like how many players did not like The Operator but came to cope/deal with it. There will be those who dislike The Drifter and come to cope/deal with it. 

One of the many things in Warframe that I enjoyed is that the questlines are impactful. Painfully/Emotionally so.

That said, one of my biggest criticisms of The New War was the lack of any impact. 

We only lost 1 major character that players came to care about. Natah, Darvo, Maroo, Konzu, Eudico, Little Duck, Clem, Baro, Stalker, Hunhow, Simaris, Syndicate Leaders, all survived with no injury or duress. 

This was incredibly disappointing because it made the war feel meaningless. There was no weight. The war ended and everything went right back to normal, no one bats an eye.

Ever since The New War, it's become painfully apparent that The Drifter is the focus, as all the interesting dialogue, story beats, twists, and now 2 Major Expansions (Duviri and soon to be 1999) are Drifter led. 

(Let's not forget that The Drifter voice actors have recorded over ALL of the previous Operator Dialogue in the game.)

That being said...

It's time to write the Operator out. To remove them wholesale. 

Ideally the best point in the story to do so is in The New War. Where such a sacrifice would be dramatically emotional. 

Concept:

Remove the Drifter or Operator choice. Let The Operator say something about feeling themselves fading, but they have 1 last thing to do, that they must make one thing right. They tell The Drifter: "This will be my Last Order."

So they set out on their Final Mission, and save Natah from Ballas. After saving Natah, they bring her home, then during the Natah/Lotus/Margulis choice, they fade away, ceasing to exist leaving only The Drifter. 

It's a bittersweet and heartbreaking end as it tells the story of a child who makes the ultimate sacrifice for their adoptive mother. A sacrifice that could leave and scar both Drifter and Natah. 

From there, all that needs to be edited is swapping the Operator with The Drifter in Jade Shadows. Hell, it would make more sense as Stalker and Drifter are arguably unlikely friends. 

This way, the narrative can feel more impactful moving forward, and the game doesn't need to twist itself into pretzels like a politician to make the plot work and now the direction the game takes will no longer be limited by "We don't want to put a child in this situation" dilemma.

(Although I personally liked how Warframe wasn't originally afraid of the grim darkness that is a 'Child Soldier' and all the grim revelations that brings into perspective about Stalker, Hunhow, The Grineer, The Corpus, and The Orokin.) 

So yeah, let's take a moment to reflect on the direction of the game's narrative and say farewell to The Operator for good. 

If reconning isn't possible/too much work then...let's put the Operator down (for good) in the 1999 storyline. 

Gameplay wise, let's get Drifter up to speed them. Amps and armor fully retrofitted for Drifter's model so no one feels cheated.

[rapt0rman]

lol no.

[Aerikx]

30 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

lol no.

Mind detailing why do you disagree?

[Chewarette]

No, The Operator is the cool one, the one who made a deal with the devil to get out of Zariman's hell. The Drifter said "lol nope" and chilled for god knows how long, who even cares.

The Operator is also the one with an emotional link to the Lotus.

The Operator is also the one with an emotional link to many Warframes.

The Operator was involved in everything important lore-wise (including Orokin stuff).

The Drifter is just here. It only exists because people wanted a non-teenager protagonist, and probably to create some romance S#&$ as we see will happen in 1999. The Drifter's only point of interest is that it exists. Somehow. 

To remove the Operator, you'd need to close like 80% of the stories that happened, including with the main characters (Indifference & Lotus included). You'd need to forge real relationships between the Drifter and Warframes, akin to those we've seen through Umbra or Jade.

And even then ? You'd have a brand new game with entirely different lore, with a very shallow depth. What makes the entire setup so cool is how Children, after living a terrific event, sealing a deal with an eldritch-level horror, have evolved to become who they are today.

You don't remove that on a whim.

[Eclipse2024Qc]

my answer is 100% no, I prefer the operator because they have the power of invisibility for longer, I can go anywhere, but that of Drifter is too limited, just a small area frankly, I don't like  not too drifty.  Stop asking that every time to leave out this operator, it's not up to you to decide.  everyone wants to keep the operator.  period.

[OniDax]

What they're about to do with the Drifter is a dating sim. If that's the evolution you're talking about, then I'd rather DE give us the option to move on from the Operator and Drifter altogether or return them to being merely the person in the chair. If they'd give us the ability to make our own protoframe with the Drifter or Operator, that would be sufficient for me. Pressing 5 can merely switch our ability set and weapon to the Operator's loadout.

[CephalonCarnage]

Frankly, the one to get rid of is the drifter - a character who was designed to be the centre of the new "elden ring a like" warframe. A change that obviously failed badly.

But its still here, rather than being quietly forgotten abotu and going back to the original story to continue it, DE can't bring themselves to get rid of this mistake. Ideally TNW should have been pushed aside as a "and in the alternate reality we no longer talk about" and a new TNW (you know, one that starts a new war against the sentients) that was better written without the covid lockdown and remote working getting it the way.

Operator is what made the game. The kid with the power suit is a staple of the most loved fiction. the "handshake with the devil" was stupid and just a feeble way to describe how the kids developed the powers. Instead of a great story of struggle and overcoming adversity both in the zariman and then the orokin, we instead got "and then you were magic, which was nice". That whole storyline hurt warframe, was an insult to the awesome story that had been teased out over the last ten years.

Now it seems a mockery. Keeping drifter, na. Let it be a bad dream.

[matt11mz]

This feels like the entirely wrong time to cut the Operator out. Maybe by the end of the Man in the Wall/1999 arc we can lose them, but it would kinda undermine the weight of the Post-NW era to give them the axe.

The Operator is the one who grew up with their void gift. The Operator is the one with unfinished business with The Man in the Wall. They rescued Umbra and the Lotus and so many others. They know this world, and have bonded with so many of its inhabitants.

The Drifter is the one who sacrificed everything to save everyone else.  They seem hinted to be saved by the Lotus in her last gasp. The Drifter is the paradox, even if we still don't 100% get why (if we do, please tell me). He has a score to settle, and a debt to repay, but the old world is gone. The Orokin have vanished, their parents are gone, they never had Margulis, and he lives in the world where Teshin is dead. All he really has is the Lotus (who he may or may not be indebted to) and his freedom from Duviri.

The two are from parallel timelines, but exist together. Getting rid of Operator and killing off the MC of his own timeline at the very start of a story arc all about emotions and time travel seems pretty poorly timed.

 

Not to mention, there's the giant elephant in the room that is plotholes and unfinished story. We've been building to this idea. "Don't forget Kiddo, you still owe me." "Don't forget Kiddo, you're nothing without me." "But from the deal, the wee child ran." This story NEEDS the Operator to work. Drifter's terms were inescapable, Wally's pretty much done with him from what we know. Getting rid of Operator now kills all stakes. Even still, what after all this? Drifter is only recently here as far as we are aware. they have no investment in really any characters yet, unless They've just merged with Operator, but we don't know that.

 

The story hasn't shifted to be all about the Drifter, it shifted to be about the philosophical concepts of reality, time, and psychology. You need the child who can never grow old with the adult whose childhood was taken. Two sides of the same coin, two branching fates merged into one.

[Anonymouse7611]

Lore-wise, the Drifter is the result of Warframe's Eternalism view of the multiverse and the Operator is the "prime" reality.  It has been through the Operator that we have experienced the present reality of Warframe, and the Drifter is a parallel version of the Operator that happened to never escape the Zariman Ten-O Void catastrophe.  Some strange thing that happened in the New War (which I don't fully understand) wherein the return of the Zariman into this/our/the Operator's reality allowed the Drifter's reality to merge with ours/the Operators. (That's what I think has happened, anyway.)

The fact is that the way DE proceeded from that point to force us to choose whether we're following the Drifter or Operator as opposed to having both the Drifter and Operator wandering around our Orbiters.  And although we can switch between Drifter or Operator as an appearance, the fact that they two don't both constantly exist in the same place accentuates the "primeness" of the Operator.  For sure, the Operator should not be removed, as mentioned, since the Operator has the more direct ties to Lotus and the Warframes.  In fact, i only just realized that it was the Drifter that was the main character in the Jade Shadows.  I feel like this might be more a case of voice actor's availability than a plot driven aspect.  (Wow, this realization explains why I felt my character was so rude and rash rather than empathetic in the Jade Shadows quest.)

I chose the middle dialog options, because I have been consisting choosing the middle dialog options because that's the "alignment" for my Operator that I've been working towards.  The Operator has had all those choices available.  The Drifter feels confined and as a result the Drifter's personality has been a more sarcastic and fatalistic character, which I don't identify with.

TL;DR.  No. Operator is the heart of Warframe.

[Eclipse2024Qc]

Il y a 1 heure, Anonymouse7611 a dit :

TL;DR.  No. Operator is the heart of Warframe.

true

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Eh, personally I like both. I have no intense dislike for either, I also like having both as a general concept, and think their current existence is good, and makes sense, and going forth, can create interesting dynamics and also potentially more as far as story telling angles they may wish to pursue. Regardless, and more importantly, and I could be wrong too, but I don't really see them removing either. So like, potentially I could suggest something like... how they should steal magical earrings from Ballas evil twin brother, called Otaro Earrings, and then fuse, creating a Doperator, and then explain why this is the best idea ever... Since I couldn't see DE implementing that... 

[Circle_of_Psi]

Dude, I don't like the Operator, but even I have to say No to this

 

Leave my Drifter's Son alone D:

[Dr_Mechano]

11 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

Frankly, the one to get rid of is the drifter - a character who was designed to be the centre of the new "elden ring a like" warframe. A change that obviously failed badly.

Lets be honest, Duviri was a hidden Soulsframe melee test to see how people felt about the melee combat...and it was basically warframe melee combat, it was floaty, the weapons felt like they had no impact or weight. They then stapled a Roguelite mechanic on it (several years after Roguelikes have begun to fall off in popularity) and that was...yeah...

Oh and continued the trend of 'we don't want you to play your warframe in a game called Warframe' which is still continuing with the 1999 update.

[(NSW)XXxzadrixXX]

On 2024-08-22 at 7:18 AM, Aerikx said:

It's been a hell of a ride. Was one hell of a twist back in the day.

However, Warframe is evolving.

Just like the implementation of Bullet Jump and free flow movement versus the limited Dead Space-ish movement, the drastic shift away from being 'Space Ninjas', and the embracing of absolute Power Fantasy. 

It's pretty clear now that Warframe's direction has shifted to tell the story of The Drifter, a 'Living Paradox'. 

And while I personally do not like The Drifter, the untapped potential and story telling that such a character.

Just like how many players did not like The Operator but came to cope/deal with it. There will be those who dislike The Drifter and come to cope/deal with it. 

One of the many things in Warframe that I enjoyed is that the questlines are impactful. Painfully/Emotionally so.

That said, one of my biggest criticisms of The New War was the lack of any impact. 

We only lost 1 major character that players came to care about. Natah, Darvo, Maroo, Konzu, Eudico, Little Duck, Clem, Baro, Stalker, Hunhow, Simaris, Syndicate Leaders, all survived with no injury or duress. 

This was incredibly disappointing because it made the war feel meaningless. There was no weight. The war ended and everything went right back to normal, no one bats an eye.

Ever since The New War, it's become painfully apparent that The Drifter is the focus, as all the interesting dialogue, story beats, twists, and now 2 Major Expansions (Duviri and soon to be 1999) are Drifter led. 

(Let's not forget that The Drifter voice actors have recorded over ALL of the previous Operator Dialogue in the game.)

That being said...

It's time to write the Operator out. To remove them wholesale. 

Ideally the best point in the story to do so is in The New War. Where such a sacrifice would be dramatically emotional. 

Concept:

Remove the Drifter or Operator choice. Let The Operator say something about feeling themselves fading, but they have 1 last thing to do, that they must make one thing right. They tell The Drifter: "This will be my Last Order."

So they set out on their Final Mission, and save Natah from Ballas. After saving Natah, they bring her home, then during the Natah/Lotus/Margulis choice, they fade away, ceasing to exist leaving only The Drifter. 

It's a bittersweet and heartbreaking end as it tells the story of a child who makes the ultimate sacrifice for their adoptive mother. A sacrifice that could leave and scar both Drifter and Natah. 

From there, all that needs to be edited is swapping the Operator with The Drifter in Jade Shadows. Hell, it would make more sense as Stalker and Drifter are arguably unlikely friends. 

This way, the narrative can feel more impactful moving forward, and the game doesn't need to twist itself into pretzels like a politician to make the plot work and now the direction the game takes will no longer be limited by "We don't want to put a child in this situation" dilemma.

(Although I personally liked how Warframe wasn't originally afraid of the grim darkness that is a 'Child Soldier' and all the grim revelations that brings into perspective about Stalker, Hunhow, The Grineer, The Corpus, and The Orokin.) 

So yeah, let's take a moment to reflect on the direction of the game's narrative and say farewell to The Operator for good. 

If reconning isn't possible/too much work then...let's put the Operator down (for good) in the 1999 storyline. 

Gameplay wise, let's get Drifter up to speed them. Amps and armor fully retrofitted for Drifter's model so no one feels cheated.

No man just no. You know how much of an impact the second dream had?? You how many people will be pissed if this occurred?? We had the operator fsr much longer then drifter and so there's sentimentality there(not to mention better gameplay in my opinion).

This is something you can't change nor cope with. The operator is the heart of warframe and put it on the map!

 

 

[Famecans]

Operator and Drifter are two different game perspectives, I love this because it keeps the player aware that it is a science fiction game. There are recent games that use this same approach, for example The Last Of Us Part 2 gives us the power to control the other side of the game's story, so the player is part of the game's universe and not just the main character.

Following this approach, I can say that I would love to see more stories within the game. We have Tenno, Drifter, Khal, and I hope to see Veso and Teshin soon. The difficulty here is technical because there are two or more models of different sizes that need to be adapted for both game mechanics, in this case I can say that the DE should make missions really restricted to a single type of character, vehicle, weapon, mechanic, etc. or perhaps a universal way for all characters to be able to access the existing mechanics telepathically.

[Fallowsthorn]

I'm gonna dissent a bit and say I do like OP's concept and reasoning, even if I don't think that's where the game is going to go. But, like, I'd 100% read that AU, I think it's a solid narrative.

However, by and large the reason this won't and can't happen is that a video game cannot take away something players have put time and energy into obtaining, or they risk losing those players. The exception is tutorials/introductions to sequel games, which obviously doesn't apply here. Sentimentality and storycrafting aside, it's just not practical.

On 2024-08-23 at 3:19 AM, Dr_Mechano said:

Duviri was a hidden Soulsframe melee test

Yyyyep. There's a reason Duviri feels like a tacked-on extra game with very little connection to Warframe itself, and that's because... it's a tacked-on extra game with very little connection to Warframe. Notice how all of the people working on Soulframe left right after Duviri dropped, and no one's really done anything with it since. It's still fun and I still like it, but aside from occasionally adding decrees and slowly pushing the quest back behind The New War where it should have been in the first place, ain't nobody touching Duviri with a ten-foot pole, and I don't blame 'em.

On 2024-08-22 at 8:05 AM, Chewarette said:

The Operator is the cool one, the one who made a deal with the devil to get out of Zariman's hell. The Drifter said "lol nope" and chilled for god knows how long

Not quite. Both the Operator and the Drifter agreed to the deal; the difference is the Operator got saved with the rest of the kids, and the Drifter didn't. One of the Zariman tablets lying around Duviri says something like "I said I'd save them. I didn't say I'd save you too." Presumably, any Operator who didn't take the deal simply starved to death or was murdered by the adults or just never left the Void, or what have you.

[Aerikx]

Really happy to see so many people support the Operator. 

BTW, as I said. I prefer the Operator to The Drifter but the game is blatantly shifting away from them.

On 2024-08-23 at 1:10 PM, (NSW)XXxzadrixXX said:

You know how much of an impact the second dream had?? You how many people will be pissed if this occurred?? We had the operator fsr much longer then drifter and so there's sentimentality there(not to mention better gameplay in my opinion).

I agree. Which is why the fact the Game's narrative continues to ignore and disregard The Operator is a spot in the face.

I would rather the Operator have a heroes send off versus become a side/background character in THEIR own story.

Because that is what Warframe is now.

The Operator IS second fiddle to The Drifter. The Operator is now nothing more than an NPC in their own story. 

And to be blunt...

The Operator deserves better.

Hence why, I would rather they be removed versus downgraded to irrelevance. 

(I think the vast majority of the community plays Drifter now too....I haven't seen another Operator in game in over 4 months.)

[Sir-Lorkhan]

Wow thats the worst take I' ve ever seen. Like people said above, the Operator is 100% needed for literally the whole plot lol.

Remove the Operator, you literally remove the 1 person that connects everything together, has links with everyone. 

You say that the Operator is irrelevant but the last quest, Jade's Shadow LITERALLY had the Operator in it and not the Drifter lol

[Rexis12]

On 2024-08-23 at 6:19 PM, Dr_Mechano said:

Oh and continued the trend of 'we don't want you to play your warframe in a game called Warframe' which is still continuing with the 1999 update

You genuinely don't have to worry about that, because that's just for the quest. We get full use of our Warframe's back, because the new Dev team actually understands that we want to play Warframe and not "S#&$ty new game mode no. 6".

14 hours ago, Aerikx said:

I prefer the Operator to The Drifter but the game is blatantly shifting away from them.

I honestly have no idea why anyone would think this. 

The only reason that the Drifter is being sent to 1999 is that he's the disposable one. 

We do not have a Wally Drifter, the stories all still have the Operator as the main de facto 'character'. 

The only exception was Duviri which was literally them trying to make a new game mode, and then failing. 

Like c'mon. 

[Aerikx]

5 hours ago, Sir-Lorkhan said:

Wow thats the worst take I' ve ever seen. Like people said above, the Operator is 100% needed for literally the whole plot lol.

Remove the Operator, you literally remove the 1 person that connects everything together, has links with everyone. 

You say that the Operator is irrelevant but the last quest, Jade's Shadow LITERALLY had the Operator in it and not the Drifter lol

I am aware. I even stated that Operator was in that quest.

Once again, playing a minor role. However, in that quest's narrative, the role of side character was acceptable. 

However, The Operator being back seated/taking a side character role in The New War, Duviri, and now 1999 is ridiculous. 

Whispers was written in a manner to where either character fit. Although it seemed promising as the words 'Chosen Operator's were used. Although that's ominous in and out of itself.

Although it as I stated in the OP, the narrative continues to lean in Drifter's favor with extra dialogue and explanations/lore being dropped/revealed for and only to The Drifter. 

Lotus Eaters while brief, really nails in that Drifter is where the narrative is shifting. Where we like it or not.

Go rewatch Lotus Eaters cutscenes. The Operator is literally just 'There' standing there like a cardboard cutout while The Drifter once again steals the show.

Sometimes main characters shift/change in storylines. Sometimes, characters die in order to expand/tell better stories.

4 hours ago, Rexis12 said:

The only reason that the Drifter is being sent to 1999 is that he's the disposable one. 

We do not have a Wally Drifter, the stories all still have the Operator as the main de facto 'character'. 

The Drifter is being sent because The Lotus actually trusts The Drifter and has faith in The Drifter to do what needs to be done. Due to the events of The New War this (unfortunately) makes absolute sense.

The New War was where the narrative shifted, where The Operator's story reached its climax and the title of Main Character was transferred.

The Drifter saved the entire System, NOT The Operator.

The Drifter was able to find and secure Natah, disrupt Narmer operations for an unknown period of time, win over Hunhow and The Stalker, cripple Narmer's operations, single handedly defeat entities (Archons) that The Operator requires Warframes to combat, rescue and revive Natah, pilot the Warframes, and defeat Ballas.

Note that she calls The Drifter 'Her Champion'. Where as she tells The Operator she wishes to hand them over to The Indifference. 

The narrative has already established The Drifter to be more skilled, powerful, wise, and decisive than The Operator. 

Duviri reveals this with the fact that The Drifter not only conquers and overcomes their mental issues, but The Drifter is revealed to have created Duviri, Thraxx, everything. The Drifter literally manifested an entire persistent living breathing world completely filled with sentient beings.

The Operator doesn't even come close to The Drifter's feats (which is honestly shocking). The Operator is nothing more than a child soldier and a bad one at that.

If you look at the Narrative post New War, Natah has been very cold towards The Operator.  

Once again, probably because after all the growth and development The Operator received, The Operator ultimately is a failure who has to constantly be saved. (Just being blunt)

Lotus (at the time of SD), Teshin, Sevagoth's Shadow, and even Drifter (which is incredibly damning...) have all had to save The Operator, with Drifter functioning as both the heavy lifter and clean up crew. 

Lotus Eaters essentially made me look back on the story as a whole, rewatch cutscenes, analyze dialogue cause the way the 'Lack of a Choice' was delivered made me raise an eyebrow.

This helped me uncover the subtle signs of the major narrative shifting. And it's been present since Angels of the Zariman where Drifter shockingly gets a little bit more lore and established history than The Operator, specifically because The Zariman we explore is The Drifter's Zariman.

The Operator's Zariman is in the one found in Duviri (The Color Flips are meant to signify this) which is why the Holdfasts and Drifter have more detailed/informed dialogue exchanges during the questline. (It's not very much but it has impact.) 

This kind of ruffled me as The Zariman was like the crux/heart of The Operator story, but we didn't get that narrative beat. We got The Drifter's version instead, and from there we got Drifter's origin story to a degree (ala: Duviri) where Drifter is shown effectively shown to be on par with Dax soldiers/Teshin without a Warframe.

The argument: Duviri was a soul frame demo doesn't invalidate or change the fact that the narrative of Duviri is part of Warframe canon. And that narrative dramatically empowers and overpowers The Drifter to where they surpass The Operator in literally every regard. 

And now the next narrative arc is one where Drifter once again, is going to save the universe and clean up everyone's mess. 

I get being attached to The Operator but this is like holding onto your childhood toys. They are just sitting in the attic/basement, serving no purpose, getting no use.

What are they being held onto for? 

The only difference is that Operator is a character, so seeing them fade into irrelevance is damaging to the story. Better for them to receive a definitive 'ending' to their journey. 

The irony...

For years folks begged for Operator to get aged up/become an adult. The wish was granted and in typical monkey's paw fashion, now no one wants to let the character have their swan song. 

[CoreEyeBloodRock]

I would say merge 2 beings into one with a quest. This would solves most of our problems. It's like a movie Everything Everywhere All at Once

[(NSW)XXxzadrixXX]

2 hours ago, CoreEyeBloodRock said:

I would say merge 2 beings into one with a quest.

Operifer, Drifator? Operative! 

On a serious note that would be a good solution.

[CephalonCarnage]

On 2024-08-27 at 4:23 PM, Aerikx said:

This kind of ruffled me as The Zariman was like the crux/heart of The Operator story, but we didn't get that narrative beat. We got The Drifter's version instead, and from there we got Drifter's origin story to a degree (ala: Duviri) where Drifter is shown effectively shown to be on par with Dax soldiers/Teshin without a Warframe

except this is wrong. The whole Duviri is literally a dream. Drifter is fantasizing about it all - the shiny dax soldiers are not real, and the drifter kept dying. You can't do that unless its not real.

the story is stupid. You can tell because Duviri has the undercroft where ... guess who! The operator comes along to fight things (press 5 and see for yourself). It measn the whole thing is canon, but in such a bad way it has hurt warframe, and will keep hurting warframe until the devs do something about it. Right now, the storyline and quests are disliked, inconsistent and I'm sure either ignored by players who just come along to get past them and play more warframes (not Duviri) or actively hated like the Jade quest.

[SquishyWiggles]

Getting rid of content/mechanics never makes sense, unless we are talking about fixing pablos broken physics.  Remember when they got rid of our favorite corpus tilesets along with a few others?  There was major loss with those decisions.  Taking away a key portion of the game because you don't like it, doesn't consider that 90% of the rest of the player base would like to experience everything warframe has/had to offer.    Also what does this have to do with The Lotus Eaters?