Riven disposition and Combat Discipline

[Dunkelheit]

At this moment, a lot of Incarnon weapons benefit hugely from a high Riven Disposition, which makes a lot of weapons quite overpowered (and the Rivens very expensive). I have not seen any Riven Disposition updates from DE for a long time, but I had a break from the game, so maybe I missed it. Please correct me if I am wrong. Will Rivens no longer be adapted to high/low usage of weapons?

Another point I would like to have a look at is Combat Discipline, which makes Avenger very viable on a lot of frames, Atlas being a prime example: His kit is strong, but he was not able to really crit, but with Avenger and Combat Discipline (and an Incarnon weapon like Magistar or Ceramic Dagger), he has a high crit modifier which makes him very strong.

My question is, has DE handed out any information about those 2 points I mentioned? Is it worth polarizing some frames for Combat Discipline or get a good Torid Riven (or other rivens for Incarnon weapons) or is DE looking at these outliers?

[Drachnyn]

Regarding the riven disposition thing:

 

[Zakkhar]

1 hour ago, Dunkelheit said:

Another point I would like to have a look at is Combat Discipline, which makes Avenger very viable on a lot of frames, Atlas being a prime example: His kit is strong, but he was not able to really crit, but with Avenger and Combat Discipline (and an Incarnon weapon like Magistar or Ceramic Dagger), he has a high crit modifier which makes him very strong.

May I ask what are you refering to here? What do you mean high crit modifier? Atlas Landslide has x2 or 200%% crit multiplier, which is one of most common crit multiplliers in game and is pretty standard for pseudo-exalts (besides Gara's x1).

Also what is the problem (wrong) here exactly? Is it your perception of him as strong (he is not). Do you want him to stop being stong?

 

Edited September 21 by Zakkhar

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

8 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Regarding the riven disposition thing:

 

I'm so happy that went with that approach.
I've used the Latron as my main weapon for years. Now that it has it's incarnon, it's insanely good.
The problem is, I use it because it's a better Latron. Most New users use it because it's an incarnon Latron.
If my riven get's hit due to this, I would be mad upset. When and if they do incarnon changes, I'd rather them nerf the alt fire.
It should be a tradeoff to use the incarnon form, not always an immediate upgrade. 
It doesn't make sense to me to hit a button, get AOE damage, more per enemy damage, and a higher tier of crits. Why use that base fire at all except to get the alt.

[Zakkhar]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

I'm so happy that went with that approach.

Me too. It is exactly what Helldivers2 devs do not seem to understand, They introduce new goodies and nerf them after 3 months.

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

It doesn't make sense to me to hit a button, get AOE damage, more per enemy damage, and a higher tier of crits. Why use that base fire at all except to get the alt.

It is a trade-off, there are builds for normal form as well, utilising the Latron Aug (Double Tap). If you mod and Evolute for Incarnon your norrmal mode will be worse, if you mod for noral mode, Incanon will be a sidegrade.

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, Dunkelheit said:

Is it worth polarizing some frames for Combat Discipline

It's hard to determine what the future of Rivens are when DE has decided to die on the Disposition hill, but for Combat Discipline, you can already work towards Aura Forma on all your Warframes which has no downside if Combat Discipline were (unlikely) changed.

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

55 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Me too. It is exactly what Helldivers2 devs do not seem to understand, They introduce new goodies and nerf them after 3 months.

It is a trade-off, there are builds for normal form as well, utilising the Latron Aug (Double Tap). If you mod and Evolute for Incarnon your norrmal mode will be worse, if you mod for noral mode, Incanon will be a sidegrade.

Nope, my build has not fundamentally changed since before scarlet spear. This has always been my main eidolon gun.
I can tell you every change I've done to it since I built it.
Got my riv with Critical Chance, Critical Damage, Electricity, and negative puncture. Built the build, 2 versions 1 one for radiation, and 1 for corrosive.
When Double tap was introduced, I removed Hammer shot, as I wasn't using SC.
When Galvanized mods were added, I switched out chambers.
When Arcanes were added, I added one.
When Semi-shot cannonade was added switched out serration for it, and point strike for critical delay.

I'm sitting at: 223% CC, 10.3 CD, and my sole source of damage is one of those 2 elements I choose. Double tap increases every additional shot by 20%.
The alt fire is sitting at: 339% CC, 13.1 CD

The bonuses I've used to buff the incarnon, I went with to buff the base fire. Base CC, and CD. +15 to the mag, and increase damage by +6, with the sprint speed bonus.

I know there is a "new" build where you rely on puncture to armor strip, but I'd rather just delete them from existence.

Edited September 21 by (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE

[Karyst]

3 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

At this moment, a lot of Incarnon weapons benefit hugely from a high Riven Disposition, which makes a lot of weapons quite overpowered (and the Rivens very expensive). I have not seen any Riven Disposition updates from DE for a long time, but I had a break from the game, so maybe I missed it. Please correct me if I am wrong. Will Rivens no longer be adapted to high/low usage of weapons?

Another point I would like to have a look at is Combat Discipline, which makes Avenger very viable on a lot of frames, Atlas being a prime example: His kit is strong, but he was not able to really crit, but with Avenger and Combat Discipline (and an Incarnon weapon like Magistar or Ceramic Dagger), he has a high crit modifier which makes him very strong.

My question is, has DE handed out any information about those 2 points I mentioned? Is it worth polarizing some frames for Combat Discipline or get a good Torid Riven (or other rivens for Incarnon weapons) or is DE looking at these outliers?

Atlas can also subsume Kullervo's 1 now.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

3 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Me too. It is exactly what Helldivers2 devs do not seem to understand, They introduce new goodies and nerf them after 3 months.

It is a trade-off, there are builds for normal form as well, utilising the Latron Aug (Double Tap). If you mod and Evolute for Incarnon your norrmal mode will be worse, if you mod for noral mode, Incanon will be a sidegrade.

Helldivers 2 should be a case study on what happens when devs go too far nerfing S#&$, prioritizing "balance" over fun.

[L3512]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Helldivers 2 should be a case study on what happens when devs go too far nerfing S#&$, prioritizing "balance" over fun.

Helldivers 2 just got a patch that basically undid most the nerfs. Most weapons and strats are very good and usable now.

[Dunkelheit]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Drachnyn:

Regarding the riven disposition thing:

 

Thanks, I appreciate your input. But then we need to ask this question the other way round: Why are the new prime weapons damned to have low dispositions for a very long time when obviously the Incarnon weapons are so much better?

[Dunkelheit]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Voltage:

It's hard to determine what the future of Rivens are when DE has decided to die on the Disposition hill, but for Combat Discipline, you can already work towards Aura Forma on all your Warframes which has no downside if Combat Discipline were (unlikely) changed.

There is a downside: Aura Formas are expensive to make or buy :)

[Sephylon086918]

2 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

There is a downside: Aura Formas are expensive to make or buy :)

You get a free 1 from nightwave, and we did just get a new one.

Edited September 22 by Sephylon086918

[Dunkelheit]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Sephylon086918:

You get a free 1 from nightwave, and we did just get a new one.

2 done, 50 more to go

 

[C11H22O1]

5 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

Thanks, I appreciate your input. But then we need to ask this question the other way round: Why are the new prime weapons damned to have low dispositions for a very long time when obviously the Incarnon weapons are so much better?

Every time something new released and people used it a lot it would get the disposition reduced and people would complain that they wasted resources and money on rivens, now we have this system where it starts as low as possible to avoid these complains.

Always thought it was rich that people would engage in this system that was known to reduce and increase the values of these mods and yet those aware of this still complained about it.

[Zakkhar]

2 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

4 hours ago, Sephylon086918 said:

You get a free 1 from nightwave, and we did just get a new one.

2 done, 50 more to go

Not sure if you realise but you can use normal forma in aura slot as well. If you know you gonna run CD, there is no reason to run Aura forma at all.

Only thing Aura forma gives you is flexibility (eg. Speedva/Slowva).

 

Edited September 22 by Zakkhar

[Voltage]

7 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

There is a downside: Aura Formas are expensive to make or buy :)

150 Platinum for 3 isn't actually crazy expensive. Don't think about it as buying them in one go.

14 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Not sure if you realise but you can use normal forma in aura slot as well. If you know you gonna run CD, there is no reason to run Aura forma at all.

Only thing Aura forma gives you is flexibility (eg. Speedva/Slowva).

Aura Forma future-proofs your Aura slot. That's quite a good reason to use it.

[Famecans]

The exorbitant prices of Rivens mods on the market are creating a bubble that is about to burst.

The availability of Rivens mods on the market and in-game shows that the prices are speculative and excessive, aimed only at generating profit. Therefore, any price above 500 platinum is a scam.

Basically, these speculators are holding onto Rivens and setting prices that no one wants to pay, while the game continues to distribute thousands of Rivens mods every week. You can get several Rivens mods each week, open them, roll them 10 times, and then discard them, because there will always be more Rivens mods to open the following week.

Another factor that further devalues the market are the purchase automation tools that operate outside of the game. These tools simulate an auction house with speculative listings that are not associated with the actual content of the game.

In short, the Alecaframe tool has a market scalping function that automatically searches for and buys listings that are valued well below market value. In other words, speculators are holding prices while the game continues to devalue their stocks.

[SneakyErvin]

Combat Discipline + Avenger is a nice combo, on frames that cannot reliably take damage otherwise. It doesnt exactly break anything, since all frames aside from Revenant can already make easy use out of Avenger by simply getting hit. For Atlas it just helps to get around his iFrames since outside of that he takes damage like any other frame.

CD is far more "abusive" on a frame like Inaros, that can kick in Grace for a measly cost of 1-10hp (depending on mod rank) per kill he makes instead of having to rely on enemies to hit him to trigger it, enemies that will deal far more damage to him as a pure health based frame.