Frost Revisited 3/3/2014

[Calica_D]

+ For Armour on Globe

 

+ For Duration increase. Don't make it last forever.

 

+ While your at it, buff his other abilities.

 

Also, nerf MP next. Nooba deserves it.

[ExplosiveFuel]

Well the animation "bug" where it froze enemies 5-6 seconds longer than the animation has been removed. Thus making ice wave the only semi-usefull skill frost has now. The ult was decent before but is now useless.

Frost now has little to no usefull CC accept for a single target sniper freeze shot.

An unreliable slow.

A globe that'll be taken down in seconds.

And an ult that doesn't do enough damage and doesn't CC anymore.

 

Other than his personal "high" armor. He is useless.

If he was supposed to be a defensive frame. Nyx and Trinity do it so much better.

If he was supposed to be a damage frame, you  have Rhino and Nova.

With this last "fix" Frost has no place in this game anymore.

[JDP04]

I already posted in the warframe feedback section, but i think this will fit here.. :D

 

My ideas for my favorite frame, Frost. :D

 

1. Freeze -> Freeze Ball/Orb/Blob

- Frost will shoot snow hadouken (very fast travel speed) that explode upon impact with anything(and Snow Globe)  except bullets.

- The blast will freeze enemies within 2-3m radius.

- If the blast hit Snow Globe it will restore 10 seconds Snow Globe duration.

- If the blast hit Snow Globe it will also restore 1 Snow Globe Layer (will have no effect if no Layers are broken). <-- see Snow Globe section

 

2. Ice Wave

- It's fine as it is (faster animation and more slow wouldn't hurt).

 

3. Snow Globe

- Make the animation more "see through", less opaque.

- Make it only 1 Snow Globe could active at a time.

- Make it have "Layers".

 

Rank 0 = 1 Layer, 1000 Health

Rank 1 = 1 Layer, 2000 Health

Rank 2 = 2 Layers, 2000 Health

Rank 3 = 3 Layers, 2000 Health

 

How Layer works:

- Just like having 3 globe active on top of each other.

- When a Layer breaks, ice cracking sound will play and the globe will invulnerable for 3 seconds.

- Overflowing damage from enemies will not carried over to the next/inner Layer.

- When the last layer break, it can be recasted again during the 3 seconds invulnerable.

- With this, it will be 75 energy = 3 Layers for 30 seconds, or reinforced 1 Layer plus 10 seconds with Freeze Ball/Orb/Blob.

- Frost players can maintain snow globe even when they are outside/far from it.

- Sample UI:

When a Layer break, it will flashes to notice the player.

 

4. Avalanche

- Make it freeze enemies, just like the bugged version.

 

I always imagined Frost as a Knight/General who can control the battlefield, different from Rhino/Valkyr with their Berzerker playing style.

Sorry if my english was bad, it's not my native language. :D

Thanks everyone~

 

 

Original Thread : https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/190494-my-ideas-for-frost/

Thanks~

[MrNonApplicable]

Frost was my first farmed frame, and despite it having mostly S#&$ty abilities I loved it, it was fun to play, a nice tank and certainly not OP.
I've neglected using frost much outside of defence because of its low viability, so I sincerely agree it needs a change.

I've given thoughts on how I feel the abilities should be altered, who knows, maybe they'll get noticed, though probably not.

 

1st: fine with everything about it staying the same, just don't keep it single target, up the blast into a mid-large radius blast/spray that can freeze multiple targets for a certain time. (Affected by duration and range mods with range mods increasing the size of spray/blast)

 

2nd: works fine, do what it needs for better damage, upon hitting armor "the intense cold cracks armor, lower armor strength and" and with corpus, weakness shields ... (essentially 100% status chance for alternatives to corrosive proc and magnetic proc, but with frosty visual affects)
Affected by range for boosting length and width, plus the other obvious ones

 

3rd: was suggested earlier, but yeah, globe still on duration, becomes damage resistance, not damage ignore or health, affected by power strength and range and duration as always.

 

4th: works okay, just do what needs to be done to make damage more viable, higher default range, and all enemies that survive suffer a slow down affect with the number of seconds slowed down for correlating to the level of the ability.

 

Anyway, hope people like my ideas.
Please don't kill frost's only redeeming feature.

[Oizen]

Other than his personal "high" armor. He is useless.

Valkyr's base armor is almost double what frost can get with high steel fiber.

[Zephyric_Reaper]

Just wanted to add. 

The ice leaders are basically an upgraded version of frost.

-Mobile ice globe (and cooler) 

-chill aura

-ice dmg amp aura

and if not enough, radial blast of heavies

 

If an npc is much, much better than the frame, then something's wrong. And a beefier globe will most likely not make up for it. 

[MEsoJD]

When snow globe is set up, it doesn't have a set time, but health that frost can monitor. Make sure the globe is resilient, but limit the amount to three.

[chunky123]

Tenno,

 

Frost and his recent changes are still being reviewed by dev, and we'd like to start up another 'mega' post for discussion based on dev's current thoughts.

 

Dev has expressed the following considerations in the continued balancing of his skills, particularly Snow Globe:

 

1) Have the Armor value apply to health of the Snow Globe

2) Remove Duration timer from Snow Globe

 

As your sessions with Frost go on, please weigh in this week on dev's current considerations as well as your own thoughts.

 

Please keep the discussion and conversation in line with our best posting practices and rules - constructive posts are best posts.

 

Thank you!

In my opinion, if the snowglobe has a health limit and is increased by strength mods, it would be best to remove the duration timer of snowglobe, because by combining strength mods and efficiency mods to increase it's health and reduce its energy cost, this will reduce its timer, making it disappear after only a few seconds.

[(PSN)i_illusion]

Just wanted to add. 

The ice leaders are basically an upgraded version of frost.

-Mobile ice globe (and cooler) 

-chill aura

-ice dmg amp aura

and if not enough, radial blast of heavies

 

If an npc is much, much better than the frame, then something's wrong. And a beefier globe will most likely not make up for it. 

I really like the comparison your making between the two, and I agree. The Team Leader version of Frost is better then Frost in everyway. Which is very sad to say the least. The only true difference between the two is that Frost has a big stationary snow globe that protects your team, but being able to move the same bubble and run around with it seems more efficient and certainly more tankish than making a bubble and either sititng in it or running away from your shield.

 

Snow Globe's timer should be removed, and inside Snow Globe should slow down enemies and "freeze them" to such an extent where the power is constant. Now my question is, which is better? Mobile Frost Bubble or the regular Frost Bubble? Perhaps make a Prime Frost Snow Globe Ability that is attached to Frost Prime to start off Prime Abilities, which is basically a mobile snow globe like the enemies? This was we can have diversity between the two different playstyles, and Frost Prime owners can easily just switch to regular Snow Globe or Snow Globe Prime?

 

Also remove Freeze, make Ice Wave the new #1 they are both more or less the same as a direct ice related attack and by removing it you could give Frost the ability to attract enemies towards him. You know... An ability that is typically associated with Tanks? The ability would simply attract all enemies within a radius to draw their attention towards Frost attacking him solely instead. Once the DE figures out a good way to work out Snow Globes health, the two abilities tied together would help Frost fit into his role more of a Tank; keeping the heat off your team while taking most of the damage.

[tris1]

Well if im correct avalanche has now (stealth nerfed) making frost even worse it seems frost is down to useless now if they want to fix frost properly then they need to stop adding further nerfs that arnt even highlighted

So far you see those special soldiers running around with mobile snowglobes and have extra abilities which to me as some aboce have said is even acting better than a warframe which defies even the lore content there using, there have also people including me saying that frosts skills can be beaten by other frames which is the case however now that they nerfed avalanche does frost actually have any viable skills which arnt beaten by all other frames skills

Freeze: single target and breaks on damage and not instant hit so can miss targets easily this only is thought of as a skill to bring to a boss fight but even then its hardly considered useable

to fix this all it needs is to be a cone shape which freezes all targets in that area or make it freeze enimies that are close to the enemy you aimed for

Icewave:on paper this may have looked nice but in the field its not what I have experienced is that it has a 50 percent proc chance (why 50) and slows targets yes thats nice but infact its not you get a very short and small wave of ice which slows targets for about 4 seconds but this not including the cast time

To fix this all it needs is to be affected by range and duration mods which increase the slow duration and the wiedness and distance of the wave and the slow duration time increased which also leaves a layer of ice that slows the targets

Snowglobe:oh wow big problem. I will not include the timer and the armour.

So we got a non mobile deffense that has a very small amount of hp that dosent even last for 8seconds on a t3 and dies so quickly on high level maps but is also effected by the cons od its huge!! It attracts way to much bullet fire and does not even block staggers/procs and certain damage types like iron skin but is also beaten by the special soldiers running around with there frost powers (wtf)

To fix this you need to increase the slow effect the bigger the globe gets and smaller the globe gets with the addition of blocking damages like the napalms and scorches getting through and give the globe some more hp or add a damage reduction to globe so it stand longer on hits it takes but limit the number of globes available to 3-4 only if the other effects are added

Avalanche:this was a bulls up with a cheery on top for good measure I am one of the people who said the cc effect was a bug and needed to be fixed but also stateded it should be the effect on acalanche with out it being a bug so you could increase the duration aswell

This is a simple fix just give avalanche back its freezing cc effect but it works with and without range mods

Sorry for the long post but I was upset about snowglobe but with avalanche being effected its starting to just get ridiculous. Just becuase im more in favour od overhauling all frosts abbilities ill add another post showing what they should have been like and should be like.

[Hyperion5182]

Here we go again...

 

I would say Dev's are definitely going in the right direction and the armour bonus would definitely make it more interesting. Both should be implemented for sure. It would restore some faith in the community too.

 

However, I am going to bring it up even though I don't want to - how many globes are we going to be restricted in using? I would say 3 even 4 sounds reasonable. I mention it because if not we'll get globe chaos throughout the battlefield and it'll do more harm than good so I see this feature being implemented eventually. Unless once you cast another after your final, the first one ever casted instantly disappears but either way, still a limit of 3/4 would fit nicely with it. Makes sense now that I think about it.

 

Anyways...

 

Honestly at this point i'd say globe restriction=1. But it'd be able to MOVE like the enemy globes.

[xXRampantXx]

I say remove the timer, but still limit it to one globe at a time if possible.

[Nkomo-Sama]

I think the timer was a great idea and that if the point was to make frost more than a one trick pony then limiting his ONE trick at the time (snow globe) makes him have to use that trick more often to be as effective OR rely on other powers that were rather ineffective. Especially at defending a location. I say leave snow globe in it's pre hp state maybe reduce the timer by a few seconds reduce cast amount to say 3 at a time and keep the new buffs. There. Frost has more than one trick.  I fell in love with the new avalanche with its frozen proc and the new ice wave buff.. Those made the snow globe nerf acceptable because there was support taking up the slack and Frosts' ultimate power felt fitting....an avalanche of big boulders that froze the surrounding atnosphere/enemies....Ultimate. Yet the nerf of my brand new beloved avalanche is baffling. You have a good idea...why destroy it?  On pluto and ceres survivals the enemies chew through my snow globe in less than 7 seconds with the current hp setup and everything is maxed intensify, continuity, armor, etc...... what mods affect snow globe now anyway?  I implore you... when testing a character/change do it at the highest difficulty and make adjustments on it being feasible in that instance.  Not OP in the harder missions just feasible...so the people like me who only play the "hard" missions can still rely on our powers being effective.

[Vaskadar]

1: Flash Freeze (25 EN)

Damage: 100/150/200/250 (Cold)

Effect: Fires a high-speed exploding projectile. All targets within a 5/6/7/8m radius are frozen for 6/7/8/9 seconds until 30/35/40/45% damage is dealt to their health. Explodes on impact. After the damage has been dealt, targets are still slowed 30% for 3 seconds afterward.

2: Ice Wave (35 EN)

Damage: 300/450/600/750 (Cold)

Effect: Launches Ice Wave and leaves a lingering slow effect barrier of ice crystals that slows targets 30/35/40/45% that lasts for 3/4/5/6 seconds. Targets passing through take minor cold damage per second. Initial impact still deals massive damage. 100% Proc Rate

Ice crystals shrink over time.

3: Snow Globe (50 EN)

Effect: Produces a shield of various ice plates that absorb up to 4000 damage a piece. Fire damage passes through, but physical damage is blocked. Once the ice plates break, they dissipate into vapor. Upgrades produce more ice plates of smaller sizes to reduce the space that enemies can shoot through once they've broken an ice plate. Damage threshold is increased with strength mods. (A combination of Volt_Cruelerz' take on Snow Globe and my own). Cannot be multicast.

4: Avalanche (100 EN)

Damage: 1000 (Cold)

Effect: Frost launches a massive rolling avalanche forward that accumulates mass with the number of enemies affected. Enemies pushed by the avalanche freeze. Frozen enemies that collide with level geometry take additional damage and are slowed for the duration of the cast.

If cast in the air, Frost will ride the Avalanche forward and steer it by aiming.

[Elestor]

remove the time. 

but
I disagree with limiting the number. I for one used it to slow down enemys advance in such a way that i dont affect my teammates. Ofc this presumes you know the enemys route . 

 

In my oppinion a good review of Frost should be made considering existing warframes skills , animation time , effectivness and movment speed. 

He is the embodiment of cool, clam and strength so the lack of movment to get the job done is somewhat understandable, yet he lacks mobility .. ...

 

unless you constantly try to slide. ( would be cool like sub zero :P )

Edited March 7, 2014 by Elestor

[Arzete]

Make the snow globe take a certain number of hits before it breaks so it scales better or make it mobile like the ice leaders with a slow aura. These two options I support the most. Better yet, have the snow globe have both attributes.

[drunkpunk222]

After last patch Avalanche skill not freeze enemies anymore with any mods, power duration or overextended not work for that, frost is boring if he is useful only for globe, not playing frost anymore after last changes, i was fine with globe durability, can stay its ok, noobs not playing more then 5 waves in lowest lvl maps to feel it anyway and pros can handle without.

Edited March 7, 2014 by drunkpunk222

[Neyd]

Snow Globe Scaling with armor is a nice concept imo but I don't think it's going to make much of a difference since Frosts already high armor makes the relative mitigation increase through mods rather diminutive.

 

What I think would be the best (for making Frost more viable in the somewhat more mobile, fast paced missions) would be to make his Snow Globe move with him and remove the timer, but in doing so limiting him to one Snow Globe at a time.

 

I still to this day have not found any real value in his Freeze but I have this issue with nearly every Warframe (the issue of finding myself using 3 abilities regularly and regarding one of them utterly useless or underpowered that is) so don't mind me, perhaps Freeze is secretly awesome and I just don't get it ^^

Edited March 7, 2014 by Neyd

[goozilla]

No. None of that armor crap. Giving it more HP isn't the issue. Its that it doesn't last against anything past lvl 15s. 30 if you're running both Blind Rage and Intensify.

 

How do you fix Snow globe? Either:

 

Make it follow Frost, have infinite durability, reduce the range a bit, make it shoot through-able by other Warframes, and drop the timer down to 8 seconds or something.

 

OR, make it like Ember's ol' Overheat, but in globe form. It does a damage reduction as bullets pass through the orb from the outside, acting like a cushion from bullets, lasers, whatever. Don't care. Base 40% DR, and is affected by power strength. And give it a cap of like 95% or something. That way its STILL RELEVANT IN HIGH LEVEL MISSIONS, and we'd still have to consider the range, timer, and power strength, allowing us to carry more than just snowglobe.

 

How to fix Avalanche:

Bring back whatever it was you "fixed". If the animation lasts longer than the stun, there's a @(*()$ problem.

 

Also, remove freeze. Its a pointless move.

 

Edit:

Ice Wave costs too much for what it does. Drop to 35 or give it some other buff.

Edited March 7, 2014 by goozilla

[HAYABU5A]

as we can see most people are ok with snow globe, having accepted that they cant rely on it they embraced a new crowd control style of playing frost

 

now most people are more concerned with the state of avalanche

 

DE addressed the issue here but there has been nothing since https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/189874-put-overextend-avalanche-back/page-2#entry2217973

 

can we know what the intentions for avalanche are ? frost is in a unplayable (for all levels of play) state at the moment, relegated to low to mid levels only

 

this basically sums it up 

I have done this pure offennsive build with frost. With only avalanche and Ice wave. Let me tell you it's very lack luster, and at a certain level you might as well stop waisting your energy because your damage abilities dont do anything anymore. Well besides ice wave that slows.

 

To me you're still thinking people are now complaining about Snow Globe, when the point of this thread was the Avalanche stealth nerf where it no longer freezes. It lasted 5 seconds and now you're still in the animation where enimies are supposed to be frozen and they're shooting you. The only thing that was buffed was ice wave. Which I appreciate. It was much needed slow on the skill. But with the avalanche nerf along with the snow globe nerf frost has no place in this game anymore except for medium maps or lower. No more taking frost to outer planets, no more taking him to T3 void. Why would you? His abilities dont do anything for you anymore at those levels. Sure you could but you're just using your weaponry and the frame is just there not doing anything.

 

 

[GamingEntity]

What I like about Snow Globe:

-Blocks all incoming projectiles (save for a few missiles and flames)

-Slows everything down on the inside

 

What would I like for it to do:

-All of the above.

-Unlimited slowing of enemies in the globe (which had been ninja fixed-out a while ago...I believe)

-Remove timer

-Have a set HP amount, power strength and armor rating affect it.

-Have it stun the enemies that are inside the globe radius when Frost casts it.

 

 

This would make snow globe just as offensive as it is defensive. This adds more utility to Frost, and gives the player time to think and react rather than mindlessly run around killing everything that isn't a Tenno.

 

It's not a matter of Frost playing a "Tank" role or "Damage" role. For me I find Frost to be a supporter. I'll pound the ground with ice wave to slow the enemies, since it can hit up in a line pretty far, and wide, with stretch mods.  I'll hit "4" when I want to stop the shooting and get moving.  I'll pop a shield to help with team mates taking too much heat; or to slow down a giant mob wave before I get roflstomped.  What I end up doing is running around with a regeneration aura that heals health over time, which I feel complements his skills of slowing and stopping enemies; this gives me, and my team, time to heal a bit when everyone is frozen or too slow to catch up.  Over all I play Frost as a supporter.

 

How does this factor into Snow Globe? Supporting skills should excel in supporting roles.  Would I like the globe to move with me? Of course! However, I would hate to see fully stretched globes flying around and not performing to the best of their ability. 

Edited March 8, 2014 by GamingEntity

[Monolake]

Edit: as VKhaun proposed just give globe guaranteed fixed protection time of atleast first 5 seconds. (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/191705-frost-globe-math-for-proposed-band-aid/#entry2230812)

 

I did the math.

 

Armor band aid is barely OK, assuming it stacks with power mods

base Frost armor 190 = 39% mitigation, making globe = 5700 hp

focus+helmet (+45% power) +base armor, globe= 8272 hp

focus+helmet (+45% power) +maxed armor, globe= 11825 hp

+max efficiency  = stack 4 globes for  47300 

 

In the testing  power moded for 8500 hp globe dies in 5-6 sec to a single lvl30 corrupted heavygunner

in void defence you will have 4 of them at the same time + bunch of other mobs, your stack of globes will last for 5-6 seconds at lvl30

 

I propose rising base globe hp to 5000 on top of all that to make sure it lasts ~10 seconds vs lvl30 wave T3 defence (very gross approximation, I dont remember how many mobs are attacking and cant know their damamge output).

Alternatively make globe scale with armor or power mods more, to avoid overbuffing it for low level players, make it more mod-dependant (ie make power mods apply double bonus to globe HP)

DE could do the proper math to see what value is needed to sustain attack at typical T3  defence/survvial wave. 

 

Please keep in mind that very low% of players have maxed Steelfiber (its expensive to max), and Blind Rage is not accounted for, because its highly inefficient (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/189000-de-buff-blind-rage-reasoing-and-math-inside/?view=findpost&p=2201893) and there are not enough slots to equip all the mods, Focus+SteelFiber+Streamline+Fleeting  would be the best build. 

 

All in all Frost will still need to babysit the globes at highlevels, but atleast they will offer protection lasting enough to dispatch the enemies. Radial blind or Chaos will still remain better alternative. 

Edited March 8, 2014 by Monolake

[Cemges]

I don't know if de reads every single post, but I think the most efficient way to fix it with an extremely easy way is to make the globe hold a set number of projectiles that you can mod to raise with intensify. narrow minded and overextended can be both used for different uses. And the thing scales infinitely as long as there is a maximum number of enemies on the map. Only thing remains is to set the number of those projectiles fairly.

[Azamagon]

Very quick ideas how to fix Frost for good:

 

Freeze - Make it freeze in an AoE. The damagecap before shattering should be 10/15/20/25% of target's max health of 100/200/300/400 damage, whichever is the highest (Scale this cap with Power Strength). Make Freeze damage 50% of total damage instantly, then the other 50% upon shattering (no matter how).

 

Ice Wave - Keep the cold proc. Also make it stagger and pushback enemies 5 meters or so (Pushback scales with Power Strength). Make it a bit wider. Make it leave an icy patch behind, which forces the cold proc on enemies walking over it and lets allies slide over it with no momentum loss.

 

Snow Globe - Could be fixed to be anything other than what it is now. Lots of good ideas have been said all over the forums here:

Version 1: Goozilla's version - Make it reduce incoming enemy damage by 40%, scalable with Power Strength (can cap at 95% or so).

Version 2: Make it more like a dome of 8 plates. These plates spin around and each plate have a seperate amount of health, to spread the damage more evenly. Plates regenerate their health over time, more so when not under fire. If a plate shatters, it is lost, but Freeze (by passing through or splashing onto the globe) can repair plates as well as "revive" lost plates!

No matter the version: Make its slowing radius also scale with Power Range btw... >_>

 

Avalanche - Make it freeze targets reliably. Freezes targets for 4/5/6/7 seconds (Affected by Power Duration). Just like for Freeze, make Avalanche damage 50% of total damage instantly, then the other 50% when the freezing effect ends. Leave an icy atmosphere behind which very slightly slows enemies walking in it, and boosts allies armor (affected by Power Strength) when they remain in the atmosphere. (Could give armor to the globe if it remains in a "health"-version)

 

Then you have Freeze for a quickthrown ability (even when reloading etc) which can freeze in a small area for a long time, but don't freeze too reliably (can shatter early).

Ice Wave is for greatly defending an area, keeping enemies away from the area with the pushback and lingering slow, as well as provide a minor boost for ally travelling

Snow Globe is the main defensive protection in Frost's arsenal, obviously.

Avalanche is your seminuke, ally armorbooster and RELIABLE freeze, but not as potentially longlasting as the #1 ability.

 

Other ideas: Instead of having Freeze and Avalanche deal lots of initial and/or shattering damage (still some damage, but less than now), make it so frozen enemies suffer a bit more damage taken from any damaging sources while frozen. That would scale really well.

[Zyfe3rX]

Remove timer

Add armor benefits.

Let us spawn 4-5 of em