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[DE]Rebecca

Frost Revisited 3/3/2014

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I wonder. 

 

Would it be exceptionally overkill if it used both Frosts armour rating and half (tempted to say all) of each of his teammates to form the buff to the Globes health?

 

Suppose it would be but again, it would encourage teamplay, albeit typical frame spam too though.

Edited by Naith
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This covers all warframes but, we need changeable elements for warframes after dmg 2.0. You can make a viral frost to nerf enemy health or blast frost to blast em off with ulti. Of course combination of 1 base and 1 other element. Maybe dmg res ones can do that. Otherwise frost lacks dmg and usefulness against infested and grineer, or even corpus.

Edited by Cemges
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-Have the first ability return snowglobe health to max and give it some other effect that isn't damage when used outside of snowglobe.

 

-Release armor 2.0

Edited by Seanjuju
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1) Have the Armor value apply to health of the Snow Globe

2) Remove Duration timer from Snow Globe

 

both of these are exactly what i was going to suggest in a post of my own. this would drastically increase the durability of the shield and make it more versatile then ever by being able to stack fleeting expertise and drop bubbles as needed, where needed. in my opinion, this would make the frame more fun to play then original without being OP.

 

the only things extra i would like to add is that steel fiber needs to effect the bubble as his armor is now raised. also, either by effecting the frost directly or by hitting the bubble itself; external sources like warcry should also have an effect and thus creating more depth of group synergy. 

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-snip-

1) Have the Armor value apply to health of the Snow Globe

2) Remove Duration timer from Snow Globe

-snip-

1: I'm not entirely sure how this would work, I'd be more inclined to put Ability power or ability duration here to increase armor, but whatever.

2: Wonderful, a health AND time limit seems too much for the snow globe.

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I feel like both of the considerations and making it so only 1 globe can be out at a time would be good, and possibly make it so that when u summon a new globe while the old one is out it collapses into ice shards damaging enemies inside.

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Make it have "layers", each one can resist a certain amount of damage and when it breaks the next one starts taking damage until they all die causing the globe to disappear, Power Strength  would add more layers/make them stronger since Frost already has a Power Strength helmet and his 2 and 4 abilities are now better it would be very effective.

 

Intensify( old Focus) and maybe Blind Rage would replace the 2-3 power duration mods that most Frost builds use meaning that not only his Globe would be stronger but it would also buff his damaging abilities whereas the duration mods only made a significant impact on Globe, leaving his Freeze,  Ice Wave and Avalanche being sub par due to not having  mod capacity to actually add mods that make them stronger.

 

Thanks for being open to feedback, will be looking to see what happens next.

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I really liked the change on Frosts Ultimate. Now because of the people who claimed frosts sphere was taking the challange away(which they clearly didnt know not using frost makes the game challanging on their minds) and their tears, sphere got changed.

 

I dont mind the change since they changed his ultimate too and its now great.

 

Infact since we took the "overpowered" sphere away from him, lets add another power instead of using or trying to fix the new and useless sphere.

 

Something like a HUGE aoe that slows down eeeverything, movement speed, fire rate, reduced cold,viral etc resistances and make it drain energy from Frosts energy pool like an active ability. That would help his squad and make different builds for frost. Forget about adding armor etc to him, since his sphere is gone , there is no reason to play him as a tank. Just a heavy nuker or crowd controller.

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I'm fine with it. Though I worry people will be able to find ways to make it so powerful that it becomes basically what it was before... ruining the point to the nerf. Still, having to load armor mods in would add build diversity and such, which I'm all for.

Edited by WhiteCopain

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I honestly think both changes should be implemented. Snow globe is completely useless on high level defense right now. 

Edited by Plasmaface
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1) Have the Armor value apply to health of the Snow Globe

1) Please, if you're going to apply some stats to snowglobe do not not use armor alone.

That forces the player to slot armor mods in particular as it offers no reward to snowglobe for other tank builds..

instead use the combined number of Health, Armor and Shields as a basis then take a percentage of that to buff snowglobe.

That way, any tanky build will be viable.

 

BTW-Rhino skin should have the same treatment. 

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I'd say remove the timer, don't use the armor value (!), but any player inflicted freeze damage would restore some of the globe's health. Also the number of globes should be limited to the mod level: one piece for every mod level.

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I'll bold this part:

ARMOR = MORE EFFECTIVE HP

If you give it Armor, all you're really doing is just giving it more HP. That will not fix the problem.

It almost sounds like you're saying that it needs to either be immortal or it's useless though. The whole point is to get rid of that.

 

Also a lot of abilities get worse as time goes on (Think Iron skin being immortality at low levels), this shouldn't be really any different unless they start trying to rebalance everything.

 

 

 

1) Please, if you're going to apply some stats to snowglobe do not not use armor alone.

That forces the player to slot armor mods in particular as it offers no reward to snowglobe for other tank builds..

instead use the combined number of Health, Armor and Shields as a basis then take a percentage of that to buff snowglobe.

That way, any tanky build will be viable.

The whole point is to make armor more useful since almost nobody slots it, and all you're asking for is the ability to not slot it >_>;..

Edited by WhiteCopain
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Maybe Frost should get more armor. Him and Rhino both are slower than Valkyr and yet they have less armor. I know that's somewhat by design because she is meant for melee but if his power is going to rely off his armor maybe he should get a buff. Besides, Rhino got a speed buff already...

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Every frame should have one power that is not affected by or otherwise scales with enemy level.

 

The old snow globe was actually pretty good. There wasn't any reason to change it. However, if DE thinks it was overpowered, why not limit us to one snowglobe at a time? This would mean the frost would have to be extra careful about recasting; no more overlapping timers with double globes.

 

Snow globe is useless for high level level enemies right now. This will continue to be the case as long as it has a finite health.

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Works for me.

 

Except there is currently no way to really give Frost more armor.

 

The Armor mod barely gives anything, with it only giving a % boost to armor it might end up being unstatisfactory.

Bascially, Buff Frost's base armor.

Edited by Oizen
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I have to mention this immediately, but I like the changes that were made to Frost. Everyone says he has been nerfed and I couldn't disagree more.

His skills are better balanced now so that his snowglobe skill isn't the only one that could be of some use to anyone. I found myself having a lot more fun with Frost than ever before and I definitely don't regret getting Frost Prime not long ago.

 

The freeze skill is now slightly better in every way (I can't say more than that),

the ice wave skill is now my personal favorite as I cannot stop spamming it, that is how good it is. The damage buff did wonders for this skill, as well as the ability to freeze anything nearby that it didn't kill, making it extremely useful for everyone on the team,

the snow globe is the only skill that I could say got nerfed, this isn't necessarily bad. Giving it health has made me more careful with how I use it, where and when (I no longer have to spawn a globe, then stand in place until it's gone, then spawn another one, which is what Frost was limited to, and also why people avoided him). The snowglobe nerf gave the other abilities the polish they well deserved (besides, it's not THAT big of a nerf),

the avalanche skill got a very nice new look (the old was buggy and awkward), the damage buff made it worthy of being an ulti skill, I never really used it before because it was pretty useless, the damage buff and casting speed changed that.

 

Those are my thoughts on the current changes, but for the future recommended changes...

The armor thing sounds logical. With this we will be able to customize our globe further, to match any given situation (if I understood it correctly).

Removing the timer is... a whole different story. It is a big change that will affect not only the people using Frost, but the entire team. this could be the thing that could either greatly improve, or utterly destroy this ability. Globes that never go away would be annoying to many, unless a slight change is made:

Let players projectiles be able to go into and out of the snow globe, and leave it the way it is for the enemies (I believe this would make things better for all of us, especially if the "no timer" is added to the globe). I hope the community agrees with me.

 

There was also a recommended change that sounded interesting: the snowglobe that follows the player. This would change Frosts support aspect and maybe even improve it. You would be a walking shield, basically acting as mobile cover. I think that would be a nice addition to the skill, though it will greatly change the way we use Frost, and I have come to realize that people never take kindly to change (though it depends on the change).

 

That is everything I have to say. I really like Frost. He is one of my current two favorite frames (the other one being Ash, and I do think Ash deserves a re visit as well). I hope that the devs come to a good conclusion and without stress, I really do care about this frame and he definitely deserves these changes.

On a side note, I would like to suggest which frames require a re visit like Frost (in my humble opinion, of course): Saryn, Ash, Oberon (maybe a few tweaks), Trinity (a re-design is required, in my opinion, one of the ugliest frames).

 

Thank you for bearing with me. 

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If you insist of giving HP to the globe then Duration HAS to go, no debate there, for it's cost and function there is just not other way.

But of course as you may have noticed a lot in this thread do indeed limit the globe's number, either be just one or merely a few but either way number limit and no duration in, in my opinion, the best way to go. That is if you insist keeping globe with HP.

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I'll leave the Snow Globe discussion to my fellow tenno. They've got it covered.

 

I will add that, as the changes to Frost's abilities allow him to be more mobile and aggressive (ALELUIA!), he could really use a speed buff!

 

Please let Frost move slightly faster. And while we are at it, speed up all warframes that are still stuck on the bottom of the speed spectrum. It doesn't have to be a lot, just enough so that frames like Frost don't feel like such a burden to move, specially when compared to their more nimble counterparts.

 

This game is a lot about freedom of movement. Some frames, however, are still so slow their movement capabilities could be considered obsolete by today's warframe standards.

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I like the changes.
Gives a good reason to frost use Steel Fiber and become a "Tank" while at the same time, making Snow Globe stronger.

Removing the Duration makes sense now the Frost will want to use Power Strenght mods more, making his offensive skills better too.

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Between the 2 :     :) Armor > Duration . 

 

Other ideas for it : 

- Toggle skill - Use it when you want and disable when you want just so ppl can shoot in. OFC it has a cost for using the skill and a drain while active. 

 

- Cast able - to a location . so it would slow enemys , help teammates until you get there... Frost is slow so he WONT GET TO THE FRONT LINE FIRST

 

- Trap skill - You use it to create a thin layer of ice where enemys loose their balance,and slip past you + a little of slow / ice dmg.

 

- Team skill - MIST - radius is same as globe but reduces enemys vision to enemys and gives ice element dmg (small % to ppl inside it ). It would encourage melee and stealth play.

 

 

In my oppinion IF you want him to TANK.... he has to be the first in combat to absorb the dmg... not the last with a few dmg skills and a globe for DEF missions. Because ppl move around alot and it(globe) is quickly left behind ... What good dose it do if ppl advance throught the map faster than you can cast it ....So something should be changed for him to be an effective tank to fast teammates and very mobile enemys (not neccesarally to the globe)

Edited by Elestor

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I have expressed my opinion regarding the impact of an duration-less snowglobe a few days after the rework in my thread here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/173791-giving-snow-globe-the-iron-skin-treatment/#entry2036609

Give it a shot. Its worth a read.

 

My opinion hasn't changed much since then. And I believe that it is the better threatment for Frost of those two suggested here.

 

Though, I am not sure about the statement anymore that it will be enough to get Frost to where he needs to be.

His Avalance and Freeze effect is really confusing me... haven't tried him out much since tbh. I was pretty disappointed about him. There was no role he could do well anymore. He is slow, can't nuke, CC still seems unreliable / confusing and his defensive abilities get nullified in high level gameplay.

 

But yeah, a duration less snowglobe could help him out to give him a role that makes him worth picking again. It would maybe turn him into a bruiser kind of warframe with a focus on support.

 

I would like to try out a energy efficiency build that allows me to stack how many snowglobes I need that would then allow me to run around the objective and kill stuff.

 

Someone should double check in what way stacking snowglobe hits the performance of the game though. Perfromance is going to hell recently. Its alternating between 15 and 90 fps for me in almost every game since U12! I used to be able to play with constant 60fps before the multithreading patch.

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Globe is invulnerable for the first X seconds.

Damage prevented while invulnerable = extra HP pool for the globe.

 

 

I've seen it suggested more than once, and it makes the most sense IMO.

Makes people choose when to use it, to get the best out of it.

Adding armor/resist mods would be lovely as well though.

Edited by VKhaun
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All this snowglobe business sounds good, but what of his first power? I've seen some people on the forums and in-game that say his number 1 should have a wider strike range. Maybe chills the targets it passes by and freezes the main target?

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