Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
[DE]Rebecca

Warframe Ability Changes: Nova

Recommended Posts

Thanks for attempting balance on Nova, especially her controversial ultimate that seemingly sucks the fun out for fellow players in her cell. Although I personally don't mind removing explosions all together, I can see why they are changing the ability little by little before rolling out more drastic alterations.

As for Null Star, that ability could use guaranteed stagger again, no objections there.

Anti-Matter Drop could maybe use a damage cap, increased by Power Strength along with the damage multiplier per rank. To represent that visually, the drop wiould vibrate like it was volatile, indicating max damage capacity being reached. Perhaps even increase its flight speed after reaching the damage cap for faster nuking?

I'm just glad there is a duration tradeoff now for MPrime spam builds. Of course, it still doesn't solve the low level room clearing "fun siphon", but we'll get there in time.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anti-Matter Drop could maybe use a damage cap

Cap AMD? It would turn it into a boring skill! The whole point of using it is to see how many lives the mobs in question would need to survive the nuke XD

Also, I'm ok with the changes proposed so far (if that expanding ring looks cool, i might even consider that a buff). But while we're on the nova topic, we could really take a look at skills 1 and 3 (not asking for a buff, rather a fix... though changing the slash damage from 1 into blast damage would really make more sense)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So is there still a x2 multiplier? If so then I don't feel like this really fixes the issue of M Prime being "the one skill that does it all" namely providing damage, CC, and a debuff all in one, and doing it better than some frames that were only designed to do one or two of those things.

 

If there isn't a debuff anymore than that's a bit better (I guess), it means Nova can longer do everything another frame was already meant to do; personally I would've removed the slow effect since it seems the most unfitting, but close enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now was that so hard?

 

 

Damage 2.0? All Damage 2.0 did for Nova is change Antimatter Drop to Radiation damage and Molecular Prime to Blast. This means she can do even more insane numbers towards factions weak against these.

 

And, since her damage numbers are already higher than the moon, it really doesn't matter anyway. Enemies have a finite amount of health. Even if they're strong against either Blast or Radiation, within the normal level boundaries (1 -50. Yes, level 50 and beyond is past the boundary of the game DE is trying to balance), everything just dies. And will still die with this update.

 

 

As stated above, DE is balancing the game for levels 1 through 50. Balancing the game for levels 50 through 100+ would make the actual, real game levels totally useless. Why do you think it takes so many mods, so many forma, so many fusions, and so many ranks to even stand a chance in level 100+ content?

 

And why do you think there's absolutely 0 nodes on the star map that features level 100+ content as its base? And why do you think level 100+ content gives you absolutely nothing aside from bragging rights? Because it's not part of the actual game.

 

Either way, MP still gives a slow duration and 2x damage. DE did not state anywhere that they were removing it, thus I'm not going to kneejerk myself off a cliff like everyone else. Antimatter Drop wasn't changed, either.

 

 

 

So don't go it alone? This IS a group oriented game after all. Nova needs checks and balances, just like everyone else. She's still powerful offensively, thus she still needs to be weak defensively. That's how it works. If you want power AND defense, go play Rhino.

 

 

Again. Antimatter Drop = not touched. Molecular Prime = still just as powerful as before, only with *gasp* a duration and an over time debuff that affects more and more targets!

 

What, are you crying about the "nerf" in her explosions? Do you know just how large a 10 meter explosion is? That's almost 33 feet. 33 feet; not too far from half of a damn football field.

 

And also this, stated in the OP: This is closer to other explosive weapons in the game. This is affected by range mods. So, Nova's explosions are actually exploding correctly now, but can be just as destructive as before if you mod them to be as such. Oh, lawdy, Nova's "high dps" is gone! (btw, DPS? Really? Damage per second? She debuffs and uses a tactical nuke. She and pretty much every other Warframe's abilities is centered around SPIKE damage and DoT. Gotta love people throwing DPSDPSDPS around everywhere. That acronym ruins games.)

 

 

So I guess we should just give a middle finger to people who play Ash, or Saryn, or Banshee, or Ember, or any other frames that, both in the past and the present, have been in dire need of buffing. Yeah, screw THOSE guys. MY favorite, overpowered warframe is finally getting SLIGHTLY nerfed! Sure her damage numbers weren't touched and the most devastating nuke in the game is hers and hasn't been touched either, but HEY! They're nerfing MY warframe! This game sucks! Let's TOTALLY ignore MY FAVORITE WARFRAME and push blame on the GAME ITSELF! Yeah! Because who gives a S#&$ about balance, AMIRITE!?

 

 

What stats? Most certainly not her damage, I hope. And since she still can do literally everything she could do before this "nerf" besides press 4 and instagib everything in sight immediately, I see no reason to change anything about her. Now she needs to be just a TINY bit more tactical. More methodical. A.k.a.; have a brain.

 

Do you wanna know why they chose to have her MPrime spread outward over time? Because that means the enemies nearest her - i.e.; the enemies that prove the biggest threat to her current well being in a general sense, will get hit by Mprime instantly. Thus, she can slow them, debuff them, and make them explode as soon as possible so she can survive and escape. And while she's finding a safer spot, her Mprime continues to spread throughout the rest of her foes to stop them from pursuing her too quickly. Then she can just pick them off from afar with whatever she wishes to use. THAT is what DE was going for, and I, for one, am very happy to see this change. Actual strategy with my Nova? Whodathunkit.

 

 

tommy-lee-jones-implied-face-palm.png

 

 

Yeeeah I wish you had stated this "point" as your first one. I would've realized answering you would be a totally futile effort and a waste of time.

 

 

Well here's your problem. You seem to think everything in this game should be worked on.........except the things you don't. One thing developers learn pretty damn quickly is that you can't have selective memory nor favorites. AI could be improved. The leveling system could be worked on. Game difficulty, especially for newcomers, could be tweaked. But guess what? Weapons and Warframes should also be worked on, too. You can't just sit there and exclude content as a developer. They read the forums, learn of both the strengths and weaknesses of their game, and figure out what can be fixed quickly and what will need a much longer and heavier hand. Warframe abilities are certainly far easier to tweak and edit than enemy AI. And, seeing as there are truly countless threads about Nova being overpowered/ruining the game for lower levels/not being "fun" to the general public, as well as Trinity's Blessing literally trivializing the whole entire game, as well as Ash being underwhelming and weak compared to the other frames, as well as Banshee also not being fun or enjoyable to play as for most users... Yeah, I'd say DE is certainly in the right to look at these Warframes and rework them to make them both fun and balanced to play with - especially while in a group.

 

The only thing I would fully agree with, is to change back Null Star to what it used to be. It doesn't do a 100% stun proc anymore, thus isn't that awesome defensive ability Nova could most certainly use. I believe this was a change that slipped through the cracks during Damage 2.0's debut, since of course that was when proc chances for certain "status effects" were created. It should be 100% again, because Nova is indeed very squishy.

Nice answer, i don't nessacerly agree but your thoughts and feedback were nice to read.

Edited by Bazools
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would love it if you adjusted Null start and made it somewhat viable to use

 

Anitmatter drop is amazing

 

And Worm hole is absolutely viable utility In my opinion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the recent addition of toggle abilities, I wonder if it would be feasible to implement something where the aura emanates away from Nova for as long as the player toggles MPrime, to a maximum range.  The Nova could untoggle MPrime at their discretion or when it had reached max range and whatever is caught within that area would be affected by the regular effect.  This would introduce a little nuance to the power and allow other CC powers to offer some utility while the Nova toggles the MPrime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Low-level critters can be killed by any AOE ability, or running around at full speed with a no-catalyst Amprex, or by looking at them funny. That's nothing new. The nerf is coming because DE noticed that MPrime was outdamaging every other ability, trivializing content, and essentially removing any semblance of difficulty. The community has known this since Nova was released, and the nerf is long overdue.

 

If your MPrime isn't wiping out a screen full of enemies at 40+, you need to let them cluster more. The ability's damage scales with the number of creatures - 100 creatures in the AOE = 100x damage. Stop spamming it and let the enemies swarm your snow globe/absorbing Nyx/etc before you use it, and it'll all die. It's not rocket science.

 

Remember back when survival and defense missions would "wrap around" after the enemies hit level 99? What frames do you think were being used to get that high? Rhino (stomp = disable, roar = more damage), Frost (globe = objective defense), Nova (mprime = kill), Trinity (blessing = team defense). Frost got a balance pass a while ago, Trinity just got a balance pass, and Nova is getting one now. Rhino won't be needing one because he's mainly an enabler.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that having the damage multiplier, slowdown debuff and explosion damage/radius as a function of distance from caster would work out well. At 0-3m, the enemy takes the full brunt of the 2x multiplier, 50% slowdown and explosion damage/radius, but if the enemy is farther out, they take a reduced debuff. This would encourage a more risk/reward situation where you have to go dangerously close in order to have the same effectiveness as now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now was that so hard?

 

 

Damage 2.0? All Damage 2.0 did for Nova is change Antimatter Drop to Radiation damage and Molecular Prime to Blast. This means she can do even more insane numbers towards factions weak against these.

 

And, since her damage numbers are already higher than the moon, it really doesn't matter anyway. Enemies have a finite amount of health. Even if they're strong against either Blast or Radiation, within the normal level boundaries (1 -50. Yes, level 50 and beyond is past the boundary of the game DE is trying to balance), everything just dies. And will still die with this update.

 

 

As stated above, DE is balancing the game for levels 1 through 50. Balancing the game for levels 50 through 100+ would make the actual, real game levels totally useless. Why do you think it takes so many mods, so many forma, so many fusions, and so many ranks to even stand a chance in level 100+ content?

 

And why do you think there's absolutely 0 nodes on the star map that features level 100+ content as its base? And why do you think level 100+ content gives you absolutely nothing aside from bragging rights? Because it's not part of the actual game.

 

Either way, MP still gives a slow duration and 2x damage. DE did not state anywhere that they were removing it, thus I'm not going to kneejerk myself off a cliff like everyone else. Antimatter Drop wasn't changed, either.

 

 

 

So don't go it alone? This IS a group oriented game after all. Nova needs checks and balances, just like everyone else. She's still powerful offensively, thus she still needs to be weak defensively. That's how it works. If you want power AND defense, go play Rhino.

 

 

Again. Antimatter Drop = not touched. Molecular Prime = still just as powerful as before, only with *gasp* a duration and an over time debuff that affects more and more targets!

 

What, are you crying about the "nerf" in her explosions? Do you know just how large a 10 meter explosion is? That's almost 33 feet. 33 feet; not too far from half of a damn football field.

 

And also this, stated in the OP: This is closer to other explosive weapons in the game. This is affected by range mods. So, Nova's explosions are actually exploding correctly now, but can be just as destructive as before if you mod them to be as such. Oh, lawdy, Nova's "high dps" is gone! (btw, DPS? Really? Damage per second? She debuffs and uses a tactical nuke. She and pretty much every other Warframe's abilities is centered around SPIKE damage and DoT. Gotta love people throwing DPSDPSDPS around everywhere. That acronym ruins games.)

 

 

So I guess we should just give a middle finger to people who play Ash, or Saryn, or Banshee, or Ember, or any other frames that, both in the past and the present, have been in dire need of buffing. Yeah, screw THOSE guys. MY favorite, overpowered warframe is finally getting SLIGHTLY nerfed! Sure her damage numbers weren't touched and the most devastating nuke in the game is hers and hasn't been touched either, but HEY! They're nerfing MY warframe! This game sucks! Let's TOTALLY ignore MY FAVORITE WARFRAME and push blame on the GAME ITSELF! Yeah! Because who gives a S#&$ about balance, AMIRITE!?

 

 

What stats? Most certainly not her damage, I hope. And since she still can do literally everything she could do before this "nerf" besides press 4 and instagib everything in sight immediately, I see no reason to change anything about her. Now she needs to be just a TINY bit more tactical. More methodical. A.k.a.; have a brain.

 

Do you wanna know why they chose to have her MPrime spread outward over time? Because that means the enemies nearest her - i.e.; the enemies that prove the biggest threat to her current well being in a general sense, will get hit by Mprime instantly. Thus, she can slow them, debuff them, and make them explode as soon as possible so she can survive and escape. And while she's finding a safer spot, her Mprime continues to spread throughout the rest of her foes to stop them from pursuing her too quickly. Then she can just pick them off from afar with whatever she wishes to use. THAT is what DE was going for, and I, for one, am very happy to see this change. Actual strategy with my Nova? Whodathunkit.

 

 

tommy-lee-jones-implied-face-palm.png

 

 

Yeeeah I wish you had stated this "point" as your first one. I would've realized answering you would be a totally futile effort and a waste of time.

 

 

Well here's your problem. You seem to think everything in this game should be worked on.........except the things you don't. One thing developers learn pretty damn quickly is that you can't have selective memory nor favorites. AI could be improved. The leveling system could be worked on. Game difficulty, especially for newcomers, could be tweaked. But guess what? Weapons and Warframes should also be worked on, too. You can't just sit there and exclude content as a developer. They read the forums, learn of both the strengths and weaknesses of their game, and figure out what can be fixed quickly and what will need a much longer and heavier hand. Warframe abilities are certainly far easier to tweak and edit than enemy AI. And, seeing as there are truly countless threads about Nova being overpowered/ruining the game for lower levels/not being "fun" to the general public, as well as Trinity's Blessing literally trivializing the whole entire game, as well as Ash being underwhelming and weak compared to the other frames, as well as Banshee also not being fun or enjoyable to play as for most users... Yeah, I'd say DE is certainly in the right to look at these Warframes and rework them to make them both fun and balanced to play with - especially while in a group.

 

The only thing I would fully agree with, is to change back Null Star to what it used to be. It doesn't do a 100% stun proc anymore, thus isn't that awesome defensive ability Nova could most certainly use. I believe this was a change that slipped through the cracks during Damage 2.0's debut, since of course that was when proc chances for certain "status effects" were created. It should be 100% again, because Nova is indeed very squishy.

 

Bravo, sir. You dismantled the person's logic, logically.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you realize how conceited you appear just saying that? I get more power and destruction out of my Rhino 

I'm not saying anything against Nova itself. But are you really going to try to tell me the majority of players go into 60 min t3 survival and use it as a damage buff? Because I don't see that very often, myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the fact that it still does the same thing just not nearly as overpowered. You can't hit 4 spend 25 energy(efficiency maximization) and kill EVERYTHING it makes the nova balanced and the nova NEEDED To be balanced. I'd like Null Star to be tweaked perhaps make it stagger enemies so it can provide the nova with more protection.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hm, this is interesting. Duration modding affecting Mprime.... as well as Strength.... this skill has actual drawbacks from corrupted mods, unlike before.

 

I've been waiting for a few abilities with obvious finite durations being afflictable by negative duration modding, specifically 4's. Fleeting Expertise has had a serious impact on balance in this game. Now we're beginning to see some drawbacks from its use, starting with one of the biggest offenders. Best part is, the impact isn't even that severe. I don't care for Nova much, nor do I hate her, but this is looking fair so far. Despite not caring much for Nova, I'll gladly dust mine off and see how this plays out on patch day, and post my feedback.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright folks you got your nerf. Now stop crying pls.

Thanks DE for properly balancing nova

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nova has been a tough one to balance for quite some time. Im glad the issue is being adressed carefully. Seeing the way balance go out now is quite nice. Taking nyx for example. I must say, she is perfect at this point. She is a gamechanger of what balance can be. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nova has been a tough one to balance for quite some time. Im glad the issue is being adressed carefully. Seeing the way balance go out now is quite nice. Taking nyx for example. I must say, she is perfect at this point. She is a gamechanger of what balance can be. 

 

Nyx had chaos nerfed multiple times before no ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
for molecular prime I wold do this

not register all kills so players don't complain about stolen kills like nyx chaos

decrease the duration to 10 seg at max

decrease the range to 20m, Explosion range 15m

make it not able to be casted again until the efect ends, same as rhino stomp (maybe is not the best) or put some long animation to prevent the instant permacast, something like the old ulty of volt or nyx/banshee something arround 6 seconds

how mods affect it

-Explosion and Explosive radius (10m at max rank) depend of damage mods. its logic more dammage bigger the explosion

-Duration and slow-motion (35% at max rank) are afected by duration mods

-Range is afected by range mods 

 

this way it can be builded for damage or control separately

Edited by KonRon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like that mprime is finally being changed, but do you have to alter the duration? Now that the range will be much smaller do you also need to shorten the effect? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

'I don't like people using this frame because it eradicates the enemy with amazing efficiency, thus strengthening the dominance of Tenno, let's nerf it! Yeah! I hate it when people use stuff that's better than what I'm using! 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you give Null star a buff,like giving it a effect that would increase the time it stays on,wich could be extended with "duration mods"then the compromise would be ok.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The grime is real here (I am not too fond of M-Prime as it stands now)... but I hope these changes will slowly aim towards an overall balance. I agree 100% with people having her 1 staggering opponents on the other hand.

Edited by RibbonRobbin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So let me get this straight...

 

MP will now be a ability, which expands from the area you casted it...

and expansion duration is affected by Power Duration... 

 

Making Fleeting Expertise useless, since based on DE logic its to ''balance'' out Energy costs vs utility...(''If you want to spam MP, there is a price to pay''

 

bitch-please-meme-generator-if-people-wo

No normal people used Null Star....i doubt this will change something, than being a Nerf-Hammer

Is it a tunnel vision to ''balance'' one ability or an ''idea of shifting power'' from MP so players would actually use other abilities??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, since we already got the base values and the "What is affected by what" in the OP.

 

So it would be nice to also get the cap values.

 

Please and Thank You. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think MPrime doesnt need the slowing/vulnerability effects.

Oh really? Did you even fight against 50+lvl enemies? Pure damage abilities that don't scale become too weak and useless in late game. That's why Ember sucks. Crowd control and utility skills rule in Warframe.

 

I think DE could solve the major problem with Nova (op damage at low/mid levels) just heavily reducing damage from MPrime explosions and removing MPrime recasting while it lasts. It would force players to use combo: MPrime as debuff/cc ability and Antimatter Drop as damage ability - instead of just spamming "4". Nothing else needs to be changed.

 

Also it would be good if DE reworked Nova's first skill (it's near useless now) and increased her shileds (basic 100 instead of 75) for more survivability.

Edited by AntLion
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...