Crush Has Two Big Problems (Mag, No Stun)

[Shimonoki_Ryuji]

Is the 'Prime' detail implying this is exclusive to him or does his Vanilla counterpart suffer this also (I assume yes)?

 

Both Frosts suffer from this. Which makes his ult at high lvls not only inviable in terms of damage, but also inviable in terms of crowd control.

[(PSN)Artennos]

Dev is taking a look at this and experimenting with some changes to address many of the issues listed (particularly point 2 from OP)!

 

Thanks Rebecca! God know Mag needs as much help she can get, lol. Some changes may help players decide to choose her for missions! :)

[Yazeth]

Is the 'Prime' detail implying this is exclusive to him or does his Vanilla counterpart suffer this also (I assume yes)?

 

I'm pretty sure it's the same for both Frosts. 

[rapt0rman]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Mag's magnetic theme in no way justifies crush doing magnetic damage. Everything about it screams massive physical trauma, it really doesn't matter that it's caused by a space magic magnetic field... their bodies, regardless of faction, are being LITERALLY CRUSHED... like seriously.

[SullyTheStalker]

I agree with most of the stuff presented by OP, but Mag should keep Magnetic damage on her ult.  Instead of removing the Magnetic damage type, Magnetic damage itself needs to be buffed.  I've posted about changing this before, but metals are very responsive to magnetic fields (especially iron, which makes up Ferrite armor), so Magnetic damage should be able to absolutely pulverize Grineer armor and Corpus robotics.  Unfortunately, that's not the case.

 

I've also suggested changing Crush so that it deals one tick of Magnetic damage on each of the first 2 parts of the animation (when Mag is lifting her hands) and Finisher damage on the last part (when Mag actually performs the "crushing" motion).  Makes more sense with how she's crumpling enemies into little balls of meat and scrap.

Edited February 19, 2015 by SullyTheStalker

[Chroia]

Since this is now the active post, a 'just in case' repost:

 

Crossposting (same/related?) issue with vids.

 

Thread name: ENEMIES STILL SHOOTING WHILE RAG-DOLLED

Abilities affected: Mag's Pull, Valkyr's Ripline (OP, both have vids) and reportedly Vauban's Vortex.

[taiiat]

Dev is taking a look at this and experimenting with some changes to address many of the issues listed (particularly point 2 from OP)!

fantastic.

i cast my opinional (so not a word) vote for Crush having the same Stun Effect it had originally, long ago.

Enemies affected were not only folded up into a ball and other stuff, but once they were dropped back to the ground, while they weren't actually stunned, their first action would be to stand up, and they stood up from Crush REALLY slowly.

a 'modern' alternative could possibly be getting up as normal after Crush (from the floor ofcourse, landing on their feet is silly), and a couple different interesting options:

- failing to actually get up the first two times, almost getting up, then collapsing on themselves again (magnetically crushing bones!)

- getting up successfuly, 75% Chance to flop on their face whenever they move(for... 10 seconds?), and when they try to attack, also flopping on their face(up to twice).

[(PSN)Fac3kick3r_lolz]

I think Crush needs to be toggleable with enemies getting forcefully pulled to Mag and getting crushed and when the ability is toggled off it sends all the enemies ragdolling. Effective and stylish 

 

http://i59.tinypic.com/27xmixf.jpg

 

 

Edited February 19, 2015 by (PS4)Fac3kick3r_lolz

[Sannidor]

Since this is now the active post, a 'just in case' repost:

 

 

Thread name: ENEMIES STILL SHOOTING WHILE RAG-DOLLED

Abilities affected: Mag's Pull, Valkyr's Ripline (OP, both have vids) and reportedly Vauban's Vortex.

B..but that's desperate and kinda rude.

 

Oh, nevermind

 

forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/402497-enemies-still-shoot-in-bounce-state/

 

forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/398742-we-still-get-stuckfall-after-melee-parry-please-fix-it-already/

Edited February 19, 2015 by Sannidor

[egregiousRac]

Crush has been in dire need of changes, especially since ragdolling was broken on a bunch of abilities. Crush used to leave the enemies ragdolled, and then they had to get back up.

 

Is the 'Prime' detail implying this is exclusive to him or does his Vanilla counterpart suffer this also (I assume yes)?

 

The stun time on Avalanche, regardless of Prime or not, is a bit shorter than the animation. The ability is worthless.

It was much more balanced when there was the bug that increased the stun time to five seconds. It actually felt like a strong CC. Cut the damage down to half and bring back the long stun and Frost users will be happy.

[EvanTheNewbie]

They should have some kind of crippled effect. I mean, their whole bodies were picked up and crushed into themselves, so it should have some negative connotations. Could be a slow and bad accuracy, could just be stun where they writhe in pain while on the ground.

Edited February 19, 2015 by EvanTheNewbie

[SoulDust]

While you're at it just make ever ability stun because every ability should stun AND have damage over time and kill enemies at wave 50 without problem right...oh wait..that's right..they shouldn't.

 

 

Edit: Stop asking for buffs, thanks

 

and stop giving them

 

 

Thanks

Edited February 19, 2015 by SoulDust

[CrazyCatLad]

While you're at it just make ever ability stun because every ability should stun AND have damage over time and kill enemies at wave 50 without problem right...oh wait..that's right..they shouldn't.

 

 

Edit: Stop asking for buffs, thanks

 

and stop giving them

 

 

Thanks

Lol...did you even see the gifs?

[CY13ERPUNK]

+99999 OP

 

these abilities need to ragdoll enemies afterwards, then these issues would not occur

Edited February 19, 2015 by CY13ERPUNK

[drunkpunk222]

Vauban vortex not holding enemiies in vortex, if u not shoot mobs they just going through, only few are affected, can see very good in orokin derelict survival.

[havikryan]

magnetic damage doesn't make sense on crush because magnetic is only good vs shields but mag already has polarize to INSTANTLY destroy the enemy their shields making crush it's damage useless.

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

Both Frosts suffer from this. Which makes his ult at high lvls not only inviable in terms of damage, but also inviable in terms of crowd control.

Yep, and I agree with this as well. I thought it was like this for vanilla frost as well, but wasn't completely sure - memory's bad today.

[(XBOX)Skode]

magnetic damage doesn't make sense on crush because magnetic is only good vs shields but mag already has polarize to INSTANTLY destroy the enemy their shields making crush it's damage useless.

But she is Mag... the Magnetic frame so i guess it DOES make sense even if its a lame damage type. Its why im personally not fazed by it doing that damage but yeah it really is long overdue stun effect, its the worst Ultimate in the game IMO based on how quickly enemies can just retaliate consequence free should they survive it which most do at higher levels. 

[Chroia]

B..but that's desperate and kinda rude.

Possibly, but these all seem to be related, so I thought it'd be better to promote them to attention while the cause is being looked at.

 

 

Vauban vortex not holding enemiies in vortex, if u not shoot mobs they just going through, only few are affected, can see very good in orokin derelict survival.

That only happens with Infested.

The Ancient Healer aura makes them immune to the Vortex's pull after the first time.

idk if Working as Intended, but it's been the case since implementation.

[WaRDeMoN787]

+1

Great points! I look forward to some fixes for mag/prime.

[Mesyra]

I think that when mag uses bullet attractor/pull/crush, the enemies should get stuck to the nearest metal surface for ~5 seconds and be slowed a lot.

 

crush needs to effect the accuracy/movement speed permanently for effected enemies.

[Sannidor]

crush needs to effect the accuracy/movement speed permanently for effected enemies.

 

It needs to affect some stats, for sure.

 

How about 5% chance of insta-death for all non-boss enemies?

I mean, crush looks pretty brutal, cloned flesh or not - bodies break and should not heal that easily.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Sannidor

[KittyDarkling]

2k damage isn't going to kill a level 120 gunner very fast...

 

Please don't make balance suggestions against enemies over level 60. The game really only should be balanced against level 50s, because they're the last level DE has shared plans of rewarding you for fighting.(rotation D)

[LifeNine]

I played Mag since I started the game back around update 7, and am still playing Mag to this day. According to the stats, I play Mag 83% of the time. Back then, Crush did knock down enemies and was a good "Oh S#@t!" button because it knocked everyone around you down and you can run or revive a teammate. The knock down was removed (either accidentally or intentionally) and I made a thread in the bug section a long time ago, but it never got any responses and thus was never fixed. Hopefully it does get fixed this time.

 

I don't necessarily think changing the damage type is necessary. Mag was always good at and used for stripping away shields. With the knock down on Crush I don't think doing a little more damage on Grineer is necessary. In fact, it might be worst to change the damage type to impact because impact only does -25% to cloned flesh. So you might do a little more to alloy units, but you end up doing less to every Gineer unit in general. Also, Crush will do a lot less damage again Corpus if Crush was changed to impact because it will do less damage to shields (from +75% to +50% and +25% for shields and protoshields respectively) and Crush will do -25% to flesh. I.e. if Crush takes out all the shields, it will to less health damage.

 

Edit: Found the post I made back in December of 2013.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/145535-mags-crush-not-properly-stunning-enemies-after-cast-animation/

Edited February 19, 2015 by LifeNine

[FLSH_BNG]

I know Crush used to cause enemies to fall to the floor and have to get back up. I haven't used my Mag in such a long time though so I didn't realize that it was nerfed this badly.

 

As for the damage type, being that it's Mag, I think that it should stay magnetic. Sure it's not great for killing high level Grineer, but Mag's Built to tangle with the Corpus anyway.

 

When it get's to the point where things stop dying with Crush I always went for multiple castings of Pull; It has a longer reach, and ragdolls everyone... sometimes even throwing them into chasms which is an instant kill.

 

 

The main issue here would be solved by having Crush ragdoll targets affected by it, as they were before Damage 2.0. (Perhaps a reversion of Pull to go with it, to pull enemies to the caster's feet rather than fling them from one side of the room to the other.)

 

As for the rest of it, I think Mag requires just a few more touches...

 

- Make Magnetic damage slightly more potent against Ferrite Armor. If compensation is needed, reduce its effectiveness against an Infested armor type. Presently it's only useful against Shields (which is part of the reason Proto Shields are so frustratingly indistinguishable from regular Shields, as they're affected exactly the same way).

- Make Crush pull affected enemies into "clusters", dealing more damage in each cluster based on the number of occupants.

- Give Crush an augment that throws the clusters in the direction she's aiming, affected by Bullet Attractor, dealing additional damage at the impact location to all involved.

 

This would be really good, especially about increasing damage to ferrite armor specifically. Ferrite sounds like it is derived from Iron which is easily magnetic with a little help. This material should be Mag's plaything.

Edited February 19, 2015 by FLSH_BNG