Nullifier's Bubble Isn't Affected By Damage, And Here's Proof

[plznohurtme]

What's the most efficient and fastest way to deal with the 15 normal mobs to the right of that heavy? High ROF bullet hoses. They're no less a threat than that one heavy. And since there's a lot more of them than heavies, it balances out... at least it used to.

 

You've gotta be joking right now, nobody is this ignorant to make such idiot and false statements.  I've certainly never been killed by normal enemies while in the open because they were alive for 10-20 seconds, Bombards/Napalms/Tar Moa on the other hand... I give up trying to reason with people like you who just make up S#&$ to appease their argument and ignore everything that contradicts.

[TheHourMan]

Oh so thats how game supposed to work now, with no abilities and slow ROF weapons being useless?  

So WF is supposed to be crappy generic shooter with no customization and no different playstyles and tactics now?

And EVERYONE is fine happy with that yeah sure  

I think thats a bit of an overreaction. Unless of course, you spend literally all of your play time inside of a nullifier bubble. And Idk what you mean by slow rate of fire weapons being useless? Thats uhh, just absolutely not true. It takes 6 arrows for me to pop the bubble and then I kill the nullifier with a power just to spite his digital face. Complete overgeneralization.

[TheHourMan]

Though I do definitely think that nullifiers should be considered heavies so that less of them spawn at the beginning.

[HolidayPi3]

Apparently you didn't actually read my post so I'll try it with a link this time and a clear explanation.  As I said I take them out no problem with http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Akvasto which I only use because of the larger magazine capacity.  Nullifier shields can also be taken out with Lex Prime in less than one mag, but because I've run into more than one at a time I prefer a weapon with enough ammo capacity to actually face the situation at hand

 

 

This bit goes for all of you here, because you all want the same exact thing.

 

What's the most efficient and fastest way to kill a heavy? High damage limited magazine capacity weapons.

 

What's the most efficient and fastest way to kill Eximus? High damage limited magazine capacity weapons.

 

What's the most efficient and fastest way to get through Eximus shields? High damage limited magazine capacity weapons.

 

 

 

These arguments are not at all compelling because many high RoF weapons can still kill all of these just as fast as low RoF weapons. Amprex. Soma. Soma P. Boltor P. Synapse. Synoid. Boar P. And for many of these, ammo is a non issue because the game throws so much at you already.

The inverse is not true for low RoF, high damage weapons. No bow (Dread, Paris P) can take out Nullifier shields. The Hek can't take out Nullifier shields. The Opticor can't take out Nullifier shields. The Vectis can't take out nullifier shields. It goes on.

 

Furthermore, there's really no point in bringing up the 'tradeoffs' of the two different weapon categories, especially when the game is largely a horde based game, and already punishes low RoF high powered weapon because of it.

Edited December 26, 2014 by HolidayPi3

[Renegade343]

Have you tried doing a solo run where all the Nullifiers are aiming at you alone (plus all the other enemies on the map)? Almost impossible to ALWAYS be ready to duct for cover or react to your surroundings. I'd say I'm pretty darn good player, but even I can't do anything about a random shot from a random direction that kills me in one shot.

Yes, I have, and I just do one of the following: 

 

1. Copter and shoot, copter and shoot.

2. Roll and shoot, roll and shoot. 

3. Make my own cover, then shoot. 

4. Sprint to any cover, and shoot. 

[Insanityman]

@Renegade343 (first two paragraphs)

EDIT:gah, destroyed my quote and formatting >.<

 

In defence of Judgement8's position, I've been insta-gibbed by a nullifier Lanka mid dodge-roll the instant my invisibility fell off by an enemy on the floor below, through a tree in the void.  It was also not a one time thing.  On that note, why do they hit harder than the sniper crewmen? Maybe it's just odd anecdotes from me, but it seems that nullifiers hit harder than sniper crewmen of the same level.

 

Hosts/ Solo are at a major disadvantage. It almost feels like the enemy knows exactly where we are and are just abiding by some strange rule that says "For the next 14 seconds, you may not target this individual.  When the time runs out, end him."  If they can fix the enemy having some strange 6th sense that allows for perfect accuracy while running full tilt the other direction, the Lankas wont be a problem.  A bug fix might make em feel more fair.

 

 

You've gotta be joking right now, nobody is this ignorant to make such idiot and false statements.  I've certainly never been killed by normal enemies while in the open because they were alive for 10-20 seconds, Bombards/Napalms/Tar Moa on the other hand... I give up trying to reason with people like you who just make up S#&$ to appease their argument and ignore everything that contradicts.

You have to be rather ignorant too, it seems obvious to me you've never played a squishy frame.  A single level 20 corpus crewman can wreck fairly easily with the full-auto-while-sliding-to-cover bug.  Two corrupted grineer can roast a Loki or an Ash that pops out of invis in a bad spot, and that's even if they come out in a dodge roll with natural talent on (Ash might live because of Smoke Bomb's stun, Loki likely wont as a host).  Bombards aren't an issue.  Neither are tar or swarm moas. Or Boilers. Or Heavy Gunners.  I hunt those to keep my team safe, and they keep the dangerous little S#&$s from tearing me to ribbons in return.  One stray bullet is more lethal than a hundred rockets, or tar pools to the wrong frame.  Put yourself in their shoes before bashing someone.

 

In response to the statement of yours that DoomFruit responded to:

What's the most efficient and fastest way to kill a heavy? Headshots with any weapon that isn't a spectra.

What's the most efficient and fastest way to kill Eximus? Headshots with any weapon that isn't a spectra.
What's the most efficient and fastest way to get through Eximus shields? Headshots with any weapon that isn't a spectra.

 

I've seen Gorgons, Heks, BurstonPs, BratonPs, Phages, Pentas, Ogris', Cestras, Vastos, Lexes, Mareloks, Karaks, BoarPs, HikouP, Despair, AkBoltos and recently Stugs absolutely liquefy level 50-75 heavy gunners. I'm pretty sure this covers most weapon types.

 

 For room clearing semi auto weapons are not the most efficient option.  Penta is. Or a syndicate weapon's explosion. Or a press4towin power.  Or a BoltorP (with this you don't even need punch through, as the bodies carry the damage past).  Snipers certainly aren't the best option.  The Latron line does ok, with punch through better, but not that much.  Soma or Karak's fire rate allows for a quick spray at head height and makes a fairly empty room.  If the enemies line up, a shred equipped Opticor does fine (or hey, add firestorm for some good lulz).  Of all the good options listed there, only one of those suffers against a nullifier.  They are all equal against an eximus health bar if you can balance your damage and fire rate and accuracy.

 

Semi autos are below average speed at clearing rooms (unless modded for punchthrough and fire rate, which tanks their effectiveness against tougher enemies), and below average speed at dropping nulli-bubbles.  They do reasonably against hard targets, when your teammates aren't pulling them, or stomping and hiding their heads behind their torsos midair, or soundwaving them away, or lighting them on fire or having them panic, or grabbing at their faces..... Hmm, it also seems that the semi autos (and other heashot loving weapons) benefit the most when the enemy is at their full potential against the Tenno (Frost's Ice Wave mod notwithstanding, that is the most amazing piece of work for a marksman EVER added to this game.)

 

For the Eximii, the most effective option, isn't necessarily the most efficient.  For arenas where you don't have constant line of sight to all approaches, you want to do something about preventing some of the nastier damage auras from annihilating your squishy team mates from beyond a wall.  You want to send assassin frames to deal with the support eximii (ice mostly, shock and magnetic ones too. Approaching them head on while slowed is a great recipe to eat 1000 rounds).  In most of the cases where my regular team and I actually have to coordinate, which weapon type you have is irrelevant, so long as you manage the threat properly, and keep it from applying whatever penalty it has to the teammates that suffer the worst from it.  For the eximii, it becomes a matter of trading positions to maintain damage output on that front, and strategically trading to keep certain frames where they wont get rocked by poison ticks, or fire waves.  For nullifiers it has become a braindead and simple "oh f***, turn all fire to north door".  Theres little to no strategy involved.  If they'd make em vulnerable to snipers  A: we'd have a reason to bring em, and B: a badly underused class of weapons would have a good role, finally.

 

For Eximus shields: I'll direct your attention to a dozen different forum threads going on and on about how good BoltorP and Amprex are.  If you can't drop an arctic shield with Cestras, or Vastos, or DexFuris (if you have it) or some reasonable AkZanis there is no amount of help you can be given that can fix you.

 

In short: making the nullifier bubbles a purely hp based mechanic would defeat their purpose, but there need to be a few changes to a few small niches to make them suffer less against an already seemingly unfair enemy.  Beyond a certain point, the semi autos feel challenging and rewarding to go hunting with, but any really limited fire rate weapon suffers exceptionally against nullifiers (and it should really be the opposite).

Edited December 27, 2014 by Insanityman

[Renegade343]

@Renegade343 (first two paragraphs)

EDIT:gah, destroyed my quote and formatting >.<

 

In defence of Judgement8's position, I've been insta-gibbed by a nullifier Lanka mid dodge-roll the instant my invisibility fell off by an enemy on the floor below, through a tree in the void.  It was also not a one time thing.  On that note, why do they hit harder than the sniper crewmen? Maybe it's just odd anecdotes from me, but it seems that nullifiers hit harder than sniper crewmen of the same level.

 

Hosts/ Solo are at a major disadvantage. It almost feels like the enemy knows exactly where we are and are just abiding by some strange rule that says "For the next 14 seconds, you may not target this individual.  When the time runs out, end him."  If they can fix the enemy having some strange 6th sense that allows for perfect accuracy while running full tilt the other direction, the Lankas wont be a problem.  A bug fix might make em feel more fair.

Strangely enough, I never have been downed by a Nullifier Crewmen Lanka shot, even if it hits (except the one time I stupidly rushed into the shield dome, and got myself with a few Corpus Techs all firing at me at the same time) and I am hosting/solo. 

[Rollerlane]

im sorry are you calling for balance? i cant hear you over my rhino prime and boltor prime soz bby

[Althran]

im sorry are you calling for balance? i cant hear you over my rhino prime and boltor prime soz bby

 

heh.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Althran

[DSpite]

Sure, I'll just pull out my Tysis... oh wait, it also sucks against nullifier shields. Fine, let's look at my other favourite secondary, the Lex Prime... which also sucks here. I hate spray and pray weapons - there is no other way to put this. Single shot, high damage or utility guns are what I use. Too hard to one-shot with Latron Prime or Vectis? Taking too much fire? Not when they're corroded, virused and irradiated. Latron Prime/Tysis did absolutely fine against all enemy types and places prior to the nullifiers. It could stand up with the best Soma and Boltor Prime builds. Likewise, someone could previously go full sniper build (Vectis/Lex Prime) and do well with it. Not now. All because of ONE badly designed enemy.

 

Tell me - what exactly is foolish about preferring to take my time and pick accurate shots? Why should rambo Rhino and his trusty Soma be the only playable style now?

 

The only change nullifiers need if they are to be kept in their current form is that their shield needs to be purely hitpoint based and that it needs that stupid shrinking animation/invincibility frames to be radically shortened.

 

Then it's you not getting it now. You take the tools you need to deal with the situation. Not two hammers or two saws, just because you love hammers and saws THAT much.

 

You have an entire arsenal to pick from, but "can't do that because it's not my favorites. Oh look, this map has ice, not my favorite either, so I'll just jump out guys".

 

See a pattern?

 

You want the game to adapt to you, rather then the other way around. Not how it's done.

[yles9056]

Strangely enough, I never have been downed by a Nullifier Crewmen Lanka shot, even if it hits (except the one time I stupidly rushed into the shield dome, and got myself with a few Corpus Techs all firing at me at the same time) and I am hosting/solo. 

 

How about Corrupted Nullifier Crewmen? In T4E, their level are around 31~33. And their Lanka have high damage per shot as well as very fast firing rate. Have you ever get killed while doing T4 missions? Just out of curious.

[Renegade343]

How about Corrupted Nullifier Crewmen? In T4E, their level are around 31~33. And their Lanka have high damage per shot as well as very fast firing rate. Have you ever get killed while doing T4 missions? Just out of curious.

No. 

[yles9056]

No. 

 

Wow. You are a skillful player. I get killed quite often while soloing T4E and T4C.

[letir]

You want the game to adapt to you, rather then the other way around. Not how it's done.

Can you call a situation, then guy with Soma (P) or Boltor P should "adapt" to situation? I think, not, bcs this weapons alredy better for 80-90% in Warframe, where you fighthing with hordes in small/medium rooms all the time.

Edited December 27, 2014 by letir

[Garuger]

THe other issue is the obscure size of the bubble it should be reduced at least 50%~60%.I mean it even covers the snow globes which is just beyong ridiculous

Edited December 27, 2014 by Garuger

[traybong111]

I just wish Nullifier shields had a bit longer delay before they regenerate--taking down a shield with 4 Detron shots is no problem but I'm pretty sure I've shortened my own life span by a few years from all the rage seeing that damned thing bubble up again before I finished reloading. 

[Harazard]

I feel like Nullifiers shouldn't use the Lanka they can't be the most tanky yet most damage dealing enemy in the void can they?

[Mickey33]

From what I know, the bubble shrinks as it takes damages. When I spray 6 boltor prime shots at Nulifiers and stop, the bubble shrinks on its own and disappear after 2 seconds without any further shooting.

So, the problem is, the bubble shrinks too slow! And it will continue to absorb everything, even when the damage threshold for it has been reached.

Plus, Nulifiers IMO are too over-powered at the moment. They can tank, they can disable, they can protect allies, they can shoot you to the death with extreme accuracy over distance. And they have a sniper rifle for god sake! My Rhino Prime with maximized strength is one-shot to death through iron skin when corrupted Nulifiers are at level 40 or so on. 

[Icebreccer]

Then it's you not getting it now. You take the tools you need to deal with the situation. Not two hammers or two saws, just because you love hammers and saws THAT much.

 

You have an entire arsenal to pick from, but "can't do that because it's not my favorites. Oh look, this map has ice, not my favorite either, so I'll just jump out guys".

 

See a pattern?

 

You want the game to adapt to you, rather then the other way around. Not how it's done.

 

Says the guy who spams Boltor Prime 24/7. So when do you need to adapt and use a different weapon? Never? Right, because it has no weakness unlike some other weapons against the Nullifiers.

 

It's easy for you to tell other people to adapt when you don't have the same issues. Not everyone wants to run with Boltor Prime + Synoid Gammacor loadout. Some might like to take Lanka and Angstrum to a run which are both completely different weapons and still suck against the Nullifiers.

 

Why is it that some weapons require you to adapt while others are always good? Oh, right you should only use few weapons in the game. Others are just MR fodders. ***** variety all hail to Boltor P and Soma.

[Althran]

THe other issue is the obscure size of the bubble it should be reduced at least 50%~60%.I mean it even covers the snow globes which is just beyong ridiculous

that's another thing.  Nullifiers should not be able to become eximuses.  That's just plain stupid.  They're already better than cold eximus, why should they have 2 F#%#% SHIELDS

[RobWasHere]

Void nullifier is not affected by damage, "normal" is. Try shooting one with Vectis, 4 shoots to break his bubble.

[Squick]

The bubble shrinks at a set rate regardless of how much damage you do. It also has health, though - so you might be 1-shotting the health with a marelok and it just needs to shrink down until it doesn't exist, while the braton is also slowly withering it down.

[Icebreccer]

The bubble shrinks at a set rate regardless of how much damage you do. It also has health, though - so you might be 1-shotting the health with a marelok and it just needs to shrink down until it doesn't exist, while the braton is also slowly withering it down.

And that is BS. The shrinking should happen depending on how much damage you do on it. So instant "pop" if you deal enough damage.

[quietcanary]

so they need to patch the new void nullifiers im guessing?

[letir]

The bubble shrinks at a set rate regardless of how much damage you do. It also has health, though - so you might be 1-shotting the health with a marelok and it just needs to shrink down until it doesn't exist, while the braton is also slowly withering it down.

It not exactly the case.

 

Shields affected by 3 stats:

1) Cap on min/max damage.

2) Shrinking speed.

3) Time between hits.