January 16Th: Community Hot Topics!

[vasez]

Mods should be tradeoffs, for instance I like heavy caliber, but dislike serration.  Serration/Hornet strike are too much power with no drawback. I think there should be normalization..  The way power strength is done seems decent.  Intensify for 30% with no drawback, Blind rage for 99% with a hefty drawback, transient fort for  55% for a medium drawback.  

[Kracken]

IF THEY WILL LOSE SOMETHING USEFUL IN BEING HONEST!

 

than what is the reason of doing those pools if you don't answer them honestly?

but what will they loose ? I will tell you : Homers bird gonna lose his job.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Cracken

[(PSN)Onyxflamegod]

@Movement methods;
Only problem I personally have is how unreliable wall movement is. In addition to this I've clipped into things quite often (back whe I played on PC and on PS) when coptering. The only thing I'd suggest be done to this is to make it smoother and a bit more fluid.

 

@Pickups;
Only real problem I ever have with them is that you can't get them pretty much ever, in archwings. Fix this, please. The "fetch" effect we have is only about lv1 vacuum size for carrier. In vast outerspace.

Also, I feel that uncommon resource drops should be an additional different color. That or have some sort of visual effect like blueprints/mods. It's terrible to have to hunt down every yellow drop just to get nothing you want/need. Ever. Make anything that drops in a quantity of 1 have a different visual effect of some sort.

@ Damage mods;
I've always felt those were fine as is. If anything, when we get T5's and only after we get T5's, release a primed version of the base damage mods.
If something would be done sooner rather than later, adding base damage event mods into the game's rotation would be rather nice, as the sets get older. Similar to the Cicero set.

 

@Grab mechanics;
Maybe as a specific weapon and included with the weapons stance combos. For example if we ever get a more proper gauntlet item instead of spiked boxing gloves, or a bladed frisbee for hand-to-hand combat. Similar to how the Nikana has its own independant stance.
As any other implementation? No.

 

@Abilities;
Depends entirely on the frame I'm using. Personally I tend to main Nyx and Limbo when I'm not level grinding. All of their skills are utility skills or skills that can actually use scalable damage boosts. (Surge and Absorb) So for them, yes, I use all 4. However I then go to characters with primarily damage based skills and don't scale. And no, Intensify does nothing to help that, really. The best solution is to find a way to scale it more properly than Intensify. Either that or make a mod that works kind of like Hall of Malevolence, except for all skills in general. i.e. You kill 50 things with your damage skill and you rank up its damage, only for skills that are nothing but raw damage. (As in specifically code it to only work on those skills)
 

Edited January 20, 2015 by (PS4)Onyxflamegod

[Feyangol]

after ~2000 of votes i'm practically disappointed in the 40% of voters that don't want a properly working parkur...

And I'm disappointed that 60% of voters want to change the melee movement (-> DE isn't talking about parkour, only about melee movement).

 

 

What a lot of people don't understand is that parkour in Warframe is a combination of melee and jump. The jump has no power and is very slow, but precise, melee is very fast, but very hard to control. Only the combination of both elements is that what we call 'parkour' in Warframe. Only if you are able to use both parts of the movement system, you can jump around the map how you want. And it feels so freaking awesome to stand 20+ sec in air!

 

If you only use the normal wallruns, jumps and slides, you don't do parkour - you climb. If you only use melee, you also don't do parkour - you rush. That is why it is so hard to create a new parkour system - you can't remove the melee movement without an replacement if you want keep a good working parkour system. You can't just increase the movement speed for fix that problem.

We already had one parkour nerf, but the most people don't even know that. Now the parkour system is better than before with the right melee weapons (~the half of all melee weapons is good for melee movement).

 

But why should I use only the fast half of the melee weapons for being able to use parkour?

Because their is no other use to melee weapons. Melee weapons are often not viable, they don't do enough dmg, they are too risky -> only a small group of melee weapons is able to perform 'good'. And against 2 factions you can completly forget fighting in melee range in general if they have a certain lvl (~50): Corpus and Corrupted.

 

Nevertheless I would agree that it sucks to use only the half of the melee weapons.

 

 

That's why I say:

 

Allow people to move as fast, simple and precise as with melee without melee if you want to remove/nerf the movement component. This does not mean that you simply increase the basemovement-speed, we need also some kind of a dash ability for every frame which works accelerating, which does not depend on the environment and is completly free to use (no energy costs!).

 

 

If you add such a mechanism, I'm for a rework of the melee movement.

 

Edited January 20, 2015 by Feyangol

[geninrising]

And I'm disappointed that 60% of voters want to change the melee movement (-> DE isn't talking about parkour, only about melee movement).

 

 

What a lot of people don't understand is that parkour in Warframe is a combination of melee and jump. The jump has no power and is very slow, but precise, melee is very fast, but very hard to control. Only the combination of both elements is that what we call 'parkour' in Warframe. Only if you are able to use both parts of the movement system, you can jump around the map how you want. And it feels so freaking awesome to stand 20+ sec in air!

 

If you only use the normal wallruns, jumps and slides, you don't do parkour - you climb. If you only use melee, you also don't do parkour - you rush. That is why it is so hard to create a new parkour system - you can't remove the melee movement without an replacement if you want keep a good working parkour system. You can't just increase the movement speed for fix that problem.

We already had one parkour nerf, but the most people don't even know that. Now the parkour system is better than before with the right melee weapons (~the half of all melee weapons is good for melee movement).

 

But why should I use only the fast half of the melee weapons for being able to use parkour?

Because their is no other use to melee weapons. Melee weapons are often not viable, they don't do enough dmg, they are too risky -> only a small group of melee weapons is able to perform 'good'. And against 2 factions you can completly forget fighting in melee range in general if they have a certain lvl (~50): Corpus and Corrupted.

 

Nevertheless I would agree that it sucks to use only the half of the melee weapons.

 

 

That's why I say:

It seems you are confused sir. Parkour is the element that involves your ability to run on walls and hop over objects. Melee movement is a completely separate subset of movement abilities.

[Feyangol]

It seems you are confused sir. Parkour is the element that involves your ability to run on walls and hop over objects. Melee movement is a completely separate subset of movement abilities.

That is the point.

It isn't only the ability to run on walls and hop over objects in Warframe. It is the ability to use movement components of the game to jump from wall to wall, around the full map and not only over some little objects.

[Tails-san]

Movement: Coptering needs to be less necessary for keeping up. Going without a melee needs to actually have some viability outside of defense. Mesa gets bonus health for not having a melee weapon equipped, but this bonus isn't worth losing coptering. If coptering is going to stay, it needs to be something that isn't a huge loss to go without.

 

Pickups: There are a number of cases where ammo gets to be a massive problem. The Kohm is the worst of all of them. Ammo pickups and types need to be tailored more to the individual weapons and their ammo capacities and consumption rates, rather than arbitrary weapon classes. As things stand, Kohm using shotgun ammo is unacceptable in every way, though just changing it to rifle won't solve everything. Also, primary and secondary weapon should never share ammo, a problem that can currently occur with Angstrum and Castanas.

 

If you want to keep the 3 primary ammo types idea, I would suggest replacing the current Rifle-Shotgun-Sniper with a light-heavy-special (or light-medium-heavy, but I feel that won't fit the last category as well) system. Light would be most fully automatic weapons, which rely largely on fire rate and a slew of bullets to kill. Heavy ammo would be middle of the line weapons, like most semi-auto weapons are, weapons that are more oriented towards a single shot's damage, but still fire somewhat quickly, whether to take down a heavy unit, or take down individual enemies rapidly. Lastly, Special ammo would pretty much just be the same thing we already have as Sniper/Bow/Launcher ammo, simply renamed to cover the several weapons that use it. Additionally, the amount of ammo gotten should be able to vary by weapon for special cases, often involving a change in ammo capacity. This would be for weapons such as the Kohm and Grakata (and perhaps Soma) that expend ammo so quickly that even light ammo is vastly insufficient. Pistols can either use purely this ammo multiplier, or be split into two categories, one for the full-auto machine pistols, and one for everything else, with special case pistols (I.E. Castanas and Angstrum) simply having a vastly reduced ammo-per pickup.

 

Damage mods: I'm honestly not sure what should be done about this, but something needs to be done. As things are right now, it often feels like build variance is merely a matter of 2-3 mods at best, element choices nonwithstanding, since merely swapping element isn't really a different build.

 

Abilities: I usually only use some of my abilities, either because modding for each is mutually exclusive (especially if corrupt mods are used), or because some abilities are severely lacking. There is usually a focus on a single ability though, with others only being used occasionally.

[Kracken]

That is the point.

It isn't only the ability to run on walls and hop over objects in Warframe. It is the ability to use movement components of the game to jump from wall to wall, around the full map and not only over some little objects.

if as you described around the whole map than the whole concept of creating levels goes to waste.

[Feyangol]

if as you described around the whole map than the whole concept of creating levels goes to waste.

I think that you missunderstood me.

I don't mean that you should be able to jump from one end of the map to other end, you should be able to reach the other end just by jumping from wall to wall - it isn't possible without melee movement.

[Kracken]

I think that you missunderstood me.

I don't mean that you should be able to jump from one end of the map to other end, you should be able to reach the other end just by jumping from wall to wall - it isn't possible without melee movement.

then tell me what coptering is capable of doing ?

[Feyangol]

then tell me what coptering is capable of doing ?

Exactly what I said.

[Kracken]

Exactly what I said.

so this is healthy "movement" ?

i don't think so ...

 

but if "yes" then the whole idea of parkur goes the drain ...

Edited January 20, 2015 by Cracken

[Cpl_Facehugger]

The target of removing Serration and the damage mods is not to stop players from going for damage, it is to make all mod slots actually accessible. Serration and multishot are the only mods that you find on just about every single build ever. No one would ever remove one of them and replace them with another mod and claim that they did it to make their weapon perform better. Elemental mods may be present on every weapon as well, but they still let you choose which combination you want to take.

A weapon's purpose is to deal damage, so obviously players want to maximise that, just as you say, so you are also correct to say that trying to stop players from going for damage is not possible.

What can and should be done, however, is to allow players to choose themselves how they want to do that by giving more viable options, which Serration and multishot impede as essential mods. Slapping all of your elemental damage mods into your weapon should be possible, but it shouldn't be the only viable option there is.

 

Sure. Which is why I'm in favor of removing serration and MS and moving their bonuses over to level up rewards for guns, similar to warframe abilities or how frames get shields/etc on level up.

 

What I'm saying here is that, basically, as long as you give players any option to increase damage, they're going to take it over other options most of the time. So if your goal is to get players to use utility mods, you need to work around that.

 

 

I'm very fond that you seem to consider it a rivalry, but really; You were talking rubbish from the beginning. 

 

"it's human nature too..." Gross over-generalization. Speak for yourself. Not to mention how stupid the maths were. "5% or 500% people will always choose more damage" Are you sure? Are you absolutely sure? 

 

 

Again; Sweeping generalisation. 

- What If I wanted to kill numerous weak enemies? (and didn't have a damage frame)

- What If I wanted to counter the weaknesses of a weapon rather than add to it's strengths 

- What if there were utilities that helped with other things, like vamprisim or a fear proc? 

 

You know what the new player meta will be? ROF and reload, both of which ultimately increase DPS. Remove those too? Ammo, which ultimately increases sustained DPS. Remove ammo capacity mods? Golly, what mods are left? Uh... Eagle Eye? Something that helps you hit distant targets, thus dealing more damage to them? :o

 

Straws, Straws. At this point it doesn't matter. Can you make a better weapon than everyone else with an optimal build? Yes. Will the optimal build be so powerful that it's a must have and players can't choose otherwise? Absolutely not. 

 

A rivalry implies I have a credible opponent. There are certainly people I respect who can actually counter my arguments and who I sometimes disagree with - Notionphil, for instance, but you're no Notionphil. As we can see by how terrible your arguments are here.

 

Now:

 

1. Yes, I'm absolutely sure. Examine the player meta for nearly every game that has a player Meta. The most obvious example that comes to mind is Mass Effect 3's MP mode. There, the player meta is damage and armor piercing for nearly every gun - even if that player only has the rank 1 damage mod with its mighty 5% increased damage. The only exception there is certain guns that benefit more from other things, eg the Prothean particle rifle, which gets a huge damage boost the longer it fires, so players sometimes swap out the damage mod for a deeper magazine to take advantage of this because it ultimately gives more DPS.

 

In games of this sort, there's basically three aspects players look for: DPS, Healing/tanking, and CC. Healing/tanking and CC in Warframe are overwhelmingly handled by Warframe powers and their mods, leaving us with DPS. This is why the player meta for this game generally involves chasing DPS.

 

You're not going to change this by merely "rebalancing" the weapon mods. If you nerf serration into only giving 5% damage in total while leaving other options to increase DPS, players will gravitate towards those other options. You end up with instead of serration being a must have mod, it's piercing hit, or an elemental mod, or fast hands, or something else entirely that ends up increasing effective DPS.

 

2. If you want to kill numerous weak enemies, you're going to go for a high DPS weapon. Usually some sort of automatic or explosive option. Warframe is actually slightly anomalous in this, in that armor scaling at really high levels is such that high damage/low DPS weapons become the better option there because the high DPS/low damage per shot gun won't do any damage at all. Again though, effective DPS on the targets is key.

 

3. What do you mean, counter the weaknesses of a weapon rather than enhance its strengths? How does that affect the player meta at all? I mean, you can do that now with some guns (eg fast hands on supra), but we're talking about the player metagame here, and that option is widely considered useless. I mean, even if we nerf serration into a 5% total damage boost or something, you're just going to end up with people choosing fast hands over it because it increases sustained DPS. Which is why I say that DPS is king. Either you're going to end up with the player meta chasing DPS.

 

4. We have radiation right now to proc as a utility effect. We have blast, impact, and frozen to proc as CC effects. How many people use radiation versus how many use corrosive in the player meta? Not as many, and mainly for heavy grineer (who receive a 75% damage boost from it, hmm). How many use radiation for the procs over the ones who use corrosive for the procs? Even less. The player meta widely considers impact the weakest of the three base damage types. Cold is brought not because of its slowing effect, but because of its damage boost vs shields and alloy armor. Practically the only exception that comes to mind is lifestrike and winds of purity, but that is due to how inconvenient healing is in warframe. And yes, there are always exceptions to any wide reaching statement. Duh. We're talking about broad trends here.

 

The logic, and to be frank it's very compelling logic, goes like so: "I can CC an enemy with radiation to make him maybe not shoot me for eight seconds... Ooooooor I can just slot on more damage to kill him faster and definitely not have him shoot me ever again."

 

Seriously, if you're going to comment on player metagames, you really need to understand how and why those metagames form.

 

5. Right now, nearly every weapon is, with the right mods and sufficient effort, able to casually clear DE approved content. And yet there are "best builds" and "best guns." And those builds and guns almost inevitably feature optimization for... What? You know, I'm sure you do. Damage.

 

Players can always choose to use weaker weapons, nonoptimal mods, etc. They can do it right now if they choose. Sometimes I do for lulz, bringing out my S#&$-tier guns and weapons out for a spin. But the player meta won't. Which means that if your problem with serration and the rest is because "the player meta says these are necessary mods", merely nerfing the necessary mods isn't going to change the underlying issue, it will merely change the necessary mod from serration to whatever other DPS booster there is, whether it's reload speed, fire rate, or whatever. There's still necessary mods, it's just that now the optimal build has another mod instead of serration.

This is what I mean when I say that there's no actual way to rebalance the mods so that the player meta won't have one build to rule them all. You can get closer to multiple builds to rule them all by introducing other mods that do the same thing (eg "headshot serration" that gives 200% damage instead of 160% damage, but only for headshots) in different circumstances, but you're still talking about DPS being the main thing the player meta will look at.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Feyangol]

so this is healthy "movement" ?

i don't think so ...

 

but if "yes" then the whole idea of parkur goes the drain ...

Berserker is the problem in this video, not the speed of the zoren.

 

Everyone, who actually tried different movement weapons, knows that the zoren's are only in the middle of the fastest copter weapons (and not very good in terms of air melee). You can reach this speed only with the fastest of all copter weapons without additional movement bonus: the ceramic dagger. And even with this dagger you are not able to copter from one end of a map to another (with the exception of using Zephyr :P ).

 

I don't think that something works wrong here.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Feyangol

[Kracken]

i give up ... you are beyond help ...

[Innocent_Flower]

Large, decently written (rather verbose) argument. 

I think you missunderstand me. (or perhaps I Misunderstood you; You tend to factor more items under 'DPS' than I do. Also you specifically used the term 'damage' in the first post.)

 

I'd be extremely happy to have players increase their DPS with stuff like;

Reloading faster

Having larger clips. 

Converting damage types to be more specialized. 

Adding a specific damage type (with limits to how many times they can do this)

Having a status proc that does damage. 

Having a mod that increases collateral damage through punch-through or explosions. 

 

But; I'd be even happier to have damage not so powerful as to completely dominate mods. Look at the above list: you probably won't need all of those for most guns. You'd probably have one or more slots free for something that doesn't improve DPS, but improves your survival rate or helps the damage of something else, or makes the game otherwise easier. Maybe if players didn't instakill everything, slowing the enemy down or putting them to panic with guns might be useful enough to take a slot; Or perhaps such mods would be cheaper than the DPS increasing mods. 

 

I'd also be happy to have a 'nerfed' serration that might not always be best for DPS in comparison to another mod(though i'd prefer serration removed entirely, both as a mod and as an innate feature. As an innate feature you wouldn't be able to scale your damage back for a challenge;and if you could; what would be the point in it?) 

 

Players might always want to do the most DPS; But I'd go on to say that it is that it's sometimes best to not let the players do what they want and set restrictions. (and players without restrictions also has the problem of encouraging the game to throw in enemies without restrictions) 

[-.E.-]

Do you think Sliding, Coptering, and/or Wall Flinging should be changed in some way?

 

Sliding, coptering is very useful skills for fast moving and evade but it has to be use more in close combat with an enemy. It means, use them in usual moving seems really weird(abnormal acts). So I suggest passive short dash moving(like Excalibur’s skill) to replace coptering and sliding.(wall flinging is ok) Also place more objects for fluent, dynamic pakour and some hidden short cuts in a map similar with an Assassin’s creed(trespassing the street through the building)

 

Do you think pickups (orbs and ammo) need a revision?

 

Automatically picking up system is nice. But I think 25 up for health and energy seems not enough(for heavy users finished with forma work). At least need 50. And ammo, has same opinion raise the number for supply.

 

What is your opinion on pure damage mods (for example, Serration)?

 

Simple example, in soma. If serration out. It might be just a bullet eater with much worse damage. It might be really makes player stressful. I know the game could be easier when primed pure damage mod released. So I suggest set a limit mastery rank(may be 10?) to using that mod and limited release date for purchase from void trader.(only one chance to get that mod, after that, never return) Or pretend it’s usage as forma. It means, if you put that pure damage mod in a some weapon, can’t put it with other weapons(one chance to adjust that mode with only one weapon) That would be real and hardcore customization. And furthermore, I think bonus effect in pure damage mod might be OK like syndicate weapon mods. That will makes weapon more unique than other player.

 

Would you grab enemies if you could?

 

This kind of martial arts, grabbing and throw. Also human shield. You really think it is useful for gun fighting? As you know those kind of skills are specialized with an assassin related dudes(see Assassin’s creed, hitman). But warframe is just dog fight on the ground. Following my experiences, most players weren’t use close combat. Yeah, grab and human shield is really attractive motion for action games. However, this game is out the line of ninja concept since long time ago. We are in future warfare, martial arts might be highly lethal for warframe.(even with a shield) Many players are playing like Master chief not Sam Fisher. But depends on situation, better be make some auto finishing events as execution. Means, more variable stealth kill motion.

 

On average, do you use all of your Warframe’s abilities?

 

4^th skill is most powerful, long-ranged and useful in most warframes.(not all but most) For example, vortex, absorb and javelin and disarm etc. On the other hand, most of first and second(especially the first)skill is useless. I know you have a better understand about this, developer. See vauvan’s 1,2 skill! Bumping and tickling? OMG. Must fix and change those useless skills not energy system, if you want players use the warframe as 100% in combat zone. Plus, I know the syndicate skill mod is some kind alternative for 100% using 1-3 skills, but think about it. That mod use 1 upgrade slot and also most of them is useless(example as useful one – soul survivor). Those bonus effects have to patched as passive(second form of skill). Means, If player fulfilled some condition with specific skill, skill will be change as advanced form.   

 

 

P.S Please also care with Archwing; health, energy orb system and  variable missions for it.(at least add boss misson or dark sector for leveling)

Edited January 20, 2015 by Ignitia

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

Health and Energy picks ups are fine the way they are now.  If you aren't getting enough there are plenty of ways to compensate for that already.  Syndicate weapons, gear restores, master thief and opening more containers, frame powers, kubrows digging or opening lockers, etc.

 

The one simple change I want is more diversity to resource picks ups.  Why is it that from across the map I can determine if ammo is for a rifle or a pistol (color coding) but I have no way of know if a resource is neural sensors or salvage other than to pick it up.  Makes no sense. 

[Cpl_Facehugger]

 

I'd be extremely happy to have players increase their DPS with stuff like;

Reloading faster

Having larger clips. 

Converting damage types to be more specialized. 

Adding a specific damage type (with limits to how many times they can do this)

Having a status proc that does damage. 

Having a mod that increases collateral damage through punch-through or explosions. 

 

But; I'd be even happier to have damage not so powerful as to completely dominate mods. Look at the above list: you probably won't need all of those for most guns. You'd probably have one or more slots free for something that doesn't improve DPS, but improves your survival rate or helps the damage of something else, or makes the game otherwise easier. Maybe if players didn't instakill everything, slowing the enemy down or putting them to panic with guns might be useful enough to take a slot; Or perhaps such mods would be cheaper than the DPS increasing mods. 

 

I'd also be happy to have a 'nerfed' serration that might not always be best for DPS in comparison to another mod(though i'd prefer serration removed entirely, both as a mod and as an innate feature. As an innate feature you wouldn't be able to scale your damage back for a challenge;and if you could; what would be the point in it?) 

 

Players might always want to do the most DPS; But I'd go on to say that it is that it's sometimes best to not let the players do what they want and set restrictions. (and players without restrictions also has the problem of encouraging the game to throw in enemies without restrictions) 

 

The issue here is that it's not really possible to any great extent. "You don't need it, really" is an argument that applies now, yet the player meta ignores it. Really, how many endgame tier guns need all elemental mods to handle well in endgame content? Not many. I outkill soma prime users with my braton prime very handily, and that's with wasting a slot on ammo mutation.

 

That's my underlying point here: The player meta is overwhelmingly a damage meta. We don't strictly need the DPS we have outside of very long endless missions, but the meta builds for DPS anyway because that's the player meta's end goal.

 

Making any of the changes you say you'd be happy with (save for removing all damage mods entirely) isn't going to change that at all. You're basically trading serration for any other mod that ultimately increases DPS. At the end of the day, it's the same underlying issue, it's just that rather than serration being mandatory for all builds, it's some other mod.

 

IOW, it's not a matter of "I don't need serration any more since it was nerfed, maybe I'll try hush," it's a matter of "Serration was nerfed. Boo. I better crunch the numbers and figure out what's the next best thing I can slot in that slot to increase my DPS." Because if players wanted to use hush right now and accept losing DPS, they already can. You're not going to fix the issue by making utility mods more attractive in comparison to damage ones because they're basically on separate axes, unless those utility mods ultimately increase DPS in which case you just turn those utility mods into mandatory mods.

 

Ergo, if the endgoal is build diversity, the tendency for players to gravitate towards DPS needs to be taken into account in any solution. Removing serration, nerfing it, etc, these are all things that aren't going to solve the problem.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Cpl_Facehugger

[BlackPoloDress]

아예 놔두자와 아예 삭제하자 라는 투표쪽이 제일 많이 치우치네요..

 

이러니 DE측도 아예 삭제하면 큰 반발이 일어나서 다시 놔두고 조금 조정하는 형식만 취해오고.. 똑같습니다 모든게.

 

너무 큰 변화가 없을 정도로 작은 변화나 편의성 개선등등을 취해야 할텐데 그냥두자! 아예 삭제하자! 면 

 

큰 변화에 적응하지 못하고 여러 불만이 나오는건 어쩔 수 없습니다.

 

바꾸기 전에 유저들의 생각도 바꿔야 한다고 전 생각합니다.

[AD_marine]

1. some weapon coptering too much fast,higher

[Nosferagon]

Coptering and such: Leave them be. As of now they are the only viable fast movement maneuvers, without them the frames look and feel waay too slow.

 

Orbs and Ammo: Due to many weapons having various Max ammo, this should be changed to be percentage based, same with orbs.

 

Damage Mods: Would i remove them? yes. But only if weapons scaled per level instead. If the problem is having lower Mastery ranked players having too powerful weapons (balance breaking and all) maybe add an extra damage boost per mastery rank?

 

Enemy Grabs: Interesting if applied in a stealth environment. other than that, i believe warframe has way too many enemies for this too be viable.

 

WF ability Usage: Depends on the WF's Kit really.

My Favorites: Loki - i use them all, the least used being Switch teleport. Saryn - i only use her 2nd and her 4th. her first merely for the viral proc. and her 3rd when my finger slips. Nyx - i use 3 of her powers, since her 2nd is a waste of energy. Oberon - i use them all, with less focus on his 1st and 2nd. Frost - 3,3,3,3. 2 and 1 if i'm going with variety. unfortunately he needs a serious update. Volt - i main his 2nd and 3rd ability. his 1st i use less often and rarely his 4th due to being/feeling underpowered.

The rest (those i use only to clean their dust or for specific uses - Nekros 333+333. Ash - 1 and 4. 2 with less frequency. 3 is nice but too much of a pain too aim. Nova - i just don't use her first unless its at the end of the mission due to the pretty balls. Ember - I just don't use her 3rd. Only useful for infested exploitation (and even that ends quickly).  Mag - i don't use her 3rd since my build for her (full St negative Dur) nerfs it to the ground. but only because of that. Hydroid - his 1st and 4th consistently. his 2nd for movement and his 3rd to rest/ go afk. Mesa - i use everything but only like to use her 3rd and 4th. Valkyr - lately i found just her 2nd and 4th are enough. her first to feel like spiderman. Vauban. his first for kicks, and then the 3rd and 4th. 2 is just for trolling. Zephyr - never use her 2nd ability. Same for Mirage. The rest of the warframes i don't like to use.

[AD_marine]

영어로 못쓰겠어요,.5번 투표에 대한 의견입니다.

 

패치로 인해 어빌리티 모드가 자동으로 바뀌면서 자유롭게 스펠 쓰는 것이 가능해 졌지만

안 쓰던 스펠은 결국 안쓰게되죠. 그것이 에너지가 아까워서는 아니죠. 그냥 안좋아서 안쓰죠.

 

자주 쓸수 있으면 재밌게 플레이할 수 있겠지만 쓸대없이 에너지를 소모하는 스킬들이 있긴 합니다.

발키르의 립 라인, 제피르의 테일 윈드, 텔레포트 종류들..무한정 쓴다고해도 게임에 지장이 없고

자주 쓸수 있으면 게임을 다양하게 즐길 수 있는 스펠들이지만 에너지가 아깝죠.

 

반대로 에너지 소모가 너무 커서 못써먹는 스펠이 하나 떠오르네요

닉스의 업소브. 괴물같은 스펙을 가진 아군의 총격을 맞는다거나, 고티어 미션에선 잠깐 키는게 두려울 정도로 너무나 소모가 큽니다.

고티어에선 거의 못쓴다고 보면 되겠죠. 그래서 카오스만 씁니다.

 

닉스를 대해 쓰다보니 에너지 소모를 떠나서 완전히 쓸모없는 스킬도 떠오르네요

사이킥볼츠..왜 있는거지...패시파잉 볼츠로 바꾸면 가끔은 쓰지만....

 

어떤 방식으로 에너지 시스템을 바꾸려는건지 정확히 모르겠지만

일단 시급한건 각각의 스펠 성능을  재검토가 아닐까..

[Skultimos]

On average, do you use all of your Warframe’s abilities?

 

It depends on which Warframe it is.  Some powers I never use (Excaliburs super jump) so there are certain frames that I just use 1 or 2 but depending on the mission type I usually use at least 3 regularly for most of them.  It's very rare that I use all 4.  Some of the abilities just seem like a waste of talent.  I'm glad that DE put in the syndicate mods as well because now it gives me a chance to diversify my playstyle.

Edited January 21, 2015 by T3574M3N7

[00zau]

Movement is fine; removing the 'derpy' movement options leaves two options. Either buff sprint speed a ton, in which case movement becomes more boring and less skill-dependant (yes, coptering requires little skill, but it's more than 'hold shift + W'), or don't buff sprint speed, in which case in addition to becoming boring, movement is also slow as molasses rolling uphill during a Siberian winter.

 

Pickups. Health orbs need to drop from enemies. Without life strike or a frame with a heal, there's no reliable way to get health back in a mission, which means you can be attritioned to death with bleed or toxin. Health orbs dropping from enemies would fix that. I think the enemy air drops in survival need to be removed entirely; air drops are generally okay now, but there are still times where you'll get screwed by not having enough enemies show up, and those that do don't drop energy. Instead, improve the lotus air drops so that as long as they're hit regularly, you won't run out of air (give about a 10% buffer on each one; say an air drop every 2:30 and 2:45 worth of air in each, allowing you to build up a surplus). Allow overstacking the air as well, to allow players to build up a significant surplus if they're good enough.

 

Removing 'Required' mods won't fix the system; the 9th and 10th 'best' damage mods will just rotate in. There needs to be a reason to bring utility mods. There isn't, and removing serration/split chamber won't fix that; we'll just add in two more elemental/crit/bane mods instead. Give us freebie (no drain) 1-2 utility only slots, that we can put any mod that doesn't effect burst DPS (no fire rate mods, but stuff like fast hands, magazine mods, silencers, zoom mods, ammo drums, etc). I'd love to slap fast hands and mag mods on my latron and torid, but I ain't gonna give up one of my damage mods to do it. Hell, I can barely affort to give up a slot for shred on some guns that work great with shred.

 

Grab and throw. I barely melee as is, and haven't bothered with any timing-based combos. I ain't gonna use it; don't really care.

 

Abilities. All abilities need to scale into high level content. Crowd control, % based damage, etc. More 1 abilites need to be able to hit multiple targets and autotarget like Volts 1; having to line up your sights for a single target nuke that likely won't do any more than a bullet is pointless. There need to be more options in ability costs; 25 energy for a single target nuke is a crappy cost when a room-broom is 100. Make 1s cost like 0-10 energy. Make 2s and 3s cost <50 energy.

Also, streamline 'frames kits. Sometimes skills become bad because of how you have to mod for the best abilites. The best way to mod Saryn's Ult (her best skill) makes her 1 and 3 essentially worthless, and her 2 no longer acts as much of a decoy. Nyx's 2 is garbage regardless of modding, but slapping overextended on (which makes all of her other skills strictly better) makes it even worse. One of embers main weaknesses in recent months has been that she can't mod for one stat exclusivley; she need range, duration, damage, and effeciency. Make it so that each skill is usable with the same dump stat (or at least isn't hurt too badly). Nyx shows how it works; ignore her 2 and she doesn't really need any power strength, which lets her run Overextended, which works really, really well for her 3 and 4, and gives her more range on her 1.