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[DE]Drew

January 16Th: Community Hot Topics!

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No it's not ironic.

That is the whole point of this, for you it is ironic for me no, you think that serration should be removed i don't, you have your arguments for this and you think they are good but i have mine and for me they are good.

So please keep that on mind, you are not the only one who have his own opinion about this topic!

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Do you think Sliding, Coptering, and/or Wall Flinging should be changed in some way?

Honestly speaking they could use some changes, sure - but let's face it, they are pretty low on the list. If you have time to worry about these, you just might use that energy and time for something really pressing.

Like changing the repetitive gameplay, balancing, lootsystem... etc.

 

Do you think pickups (orbs and ammo) need a revision?

Energy is a rather big problem - abilities being easily usable over and over again, even the ones that massacre everyone within a mile... and enemies added to the game to take that energy so players feel the "challenge". Ending up in simply annoying the players and promoting the how inbalanced the game is - alas if you cannot cast with certain frames or on certain maps you just lose. No matter how skilled you are since your only option would be taking out that enemy before they cripple you - but since their range is mostly bigger than your abilities' or weapons' (not to mention it's hard to react to them through 2-3 walls...) the results are based on luck rather than skill. Some might like that - them I would advise to play dice.

 

What is your opinion on pure damage mods (for example, Serration)?

Honestly speaking I feel that damage scaling is blown out of proportions. And as player damage is over the top, so shall the enemy health follow, thus ending in total inbalance. You are rarely "just right" for a mission - either too weak or too strong... and since most valuable loots need long missions on high level maps, you are rarely effective without exploiting something... mostly because every properly working tactic gets nerfed in hours.

The game is too dependant on damage scaling and as such exploitation will always be an issue - so instead of trying to force the players to abandon certain exploits (as DE tried to do it countless times in the past) it would be much more effective if instead of incredible damage scaling the game would stay within reasonable boundaries.

A heavy emphasis on lack of ammo would make high fire rate weapons much less viable and as such all other damage affecting mods could lose some extra weight too (instead of 3-400% dmg, you would be happy to get +50%, and since the enemies wouldn't get that much extra health either, it would mean just as much or even more).

Yes, that's very probable in a grinding/loot based game but even so the dmg range is just too wide. Players a bit weaker lose interest fast since they have to keep shooting a single enemy for minutes that a higher level player just oneshots  That's boring.

 

Would you grab enemies if you could?

Interaction with enemies is pretty damn shallow in the game. Sometimes they stagger or fall over but honestly speaking they don't feel like being there at all. When you swing your melee weapon for example, it just does the usual animation, doesn't matter if the enemy is actually in the way - and most of the time the biggest reaction is a simple stagger which looks weird considering a huge hammer just went clean through. Stop the weapon in it's path then, make the staggering happen when the enemy is actually hit (visually) etc.

Same goes for grabbing - if it will appear like the executions, characters growing in size just to match their target's animation... let's forget it then.

 

On average, do you use all of your Warframe’s abilities?

Hah, of course not. Most frames have only 1 truly useful ability. Not always the ultimate, not always just one - but in most cases.

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This is what I have already posted on keeping the damage mods.

Aquiring and levelling mods is a fundamental part of this game and is probably one of the best indicators of progression. Being able to transfer this progression from gun to gun is also unique. You start to mess with this system and you start to mess with what makes Warframe Warframe.

Remember when you first get into the game and hear about mods like serration, hornet strike, split chamber etc? How much you want them for your weapons, how their acquisition drives you on in the game, gives you motivation?

just because some people have forgotten the thrill of first finding a rare(ish) mod and the sense of acheivement when you finally get to max it doesn't mean these mods should now be scrapped because you're now bored. Same goes for the people who can't be @$$ed to actually strive for their power increases and just want it handed to them by having the weapons damage increase while its strapped to their back on Sechura.

Edited by (PS4)obsidiancurse, Today, 07:47 AM.

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Misc issues:

 

Wouldn't it be better to use some kind of Ability Log for finding out what abilities are used? Polls aren't great. 

 

Grabbing; Awesome, but with the current damage system (another reason to get rid of damage mods, WOO) implementing such would be a waste as players can instantly-kill everything with a full-auto assault rifle. Fix ballance/scaling first. 

 

Ammo/Pickups. 

Not currently a 'problem' But not a strength either.

Ammo restores are kinda broke. Weapons like the boar for example get half their ammo in one burst and then more ammo is wasted as the player is already full. The player then procedes to need another within the next three minutes. 

Maybe if you added interesting utility mods to weapons (again, an issue of scaling and ballance) like energy vampire or something to make those shot drop more ammo, then you'd have interesting solutions to the problem.

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I really don't like the idea of primed mods we already have...especially ranking up mods like serration. Seems pretty lazy and unimaginative for DE. I also don't like this new trend of weapons requiring other whole weapons to make a new weapon. I guess more and more people are getting their weapon slots for free from trading. I have played for over a year and I think I've got about 80 weapon slots now. I thought that would be enough to hold onto weapons I like and have room to make and test out new weapons but not anymore. Now I feel like I have to hold onto every new weapon I make in case it's needed to make a another newer weapon. I know it's early but so far for this new year in Warframe I'm disappointed with the direction (and updates) that DE is going in.

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I haven't bothered to read all the responses in this thread, so apologies if what I'm about to mention is already mentioned.

 

Regarding Serration and damage+% mods in general:

>The current system as we know it only favors weapons that can be built around all the damage% mods found in the game.

>A few responses I've read here is that Serration and the like should be removed completely. However, I believe that doing so would have the adverse effect on damage in general, as it would allow for less progression.

 

Serration-leveling-hybrid:

I have no objection to keeping Serration in the game. However, as some responses have pointed out, weapons should have their own innate damage progression. Such as, weapons start with a low damage, but gain increased damage with levels. However, this poses the problem where we will reach the top damage too easily.

 

Serration damage calculation:

What I'd suggest is to keep Serration in the game, but in addition to that, give weapons the level -> damage progression.

 However, Serration shouldn't affect damage like it does now. Instead, weapons could start out with x damage, which is the only damage Serration would have an effect on. Upon gaining levels, the weapons would gain sort of bonus damage that's not affected by anything except for the weapon's original base damage.

 This would reduce the impact Serration has on later levels. However, one could argue that Serration would become an obsolete mod because of this. Well, what about making it different from other mods (primary multishot mods aside)?

 

The barrel improvement: Serration

By this I mean that Serration would be a mod that, much like stance and aura mods, has its own slot. However, a mod like this should NOT increase the mod capacity, but neither should it reduce it.

 

Multishot damage calculation:

Now, to adress the problem that would arise from this: Multishot mods would now be the only way to go.

 Multishot would now only shoot bullets that will deal the base damage that is increased by Serration mod, but not including the damage from the weapon's levels. In addition to this, multishot'd bullets would also have the ability to proc status effects

I'm not entirely sure if this mod, too, should have its own slot or if there's something else that should be done to it.

 

Let's rework elementals, too:

I'm not exactly sure if elemental mods should also be tweaked to not increase damage purely, but to instead change damage into the element of the choice while combining the elements from earlier.

However, with elemental mods I would go for the following: Elemental damage (heat, blast, whatnot) wouldn't deal critical damage. Instead, if elemental damage is to proc, its damage is increased according to the multipliers of the elemental mods. So for instance, if you had two ice mods that both give 60% ice damage, you'd first get 60% + (0,4 * 0,6)  * 100% damage (that's 84% of the total damage of the weapon) turned into ice damage. After that, the 84% of the initial damage is increased by the multipliers from the mods, so that would be 0,84 * 1,6 * 1,6 = 2,15x multiplier for the bullet that does proc an elemental effect. In addition to this, if the status effect itself deals damage, the damage would be increased according to the mods you've installed.

 

Oh and some love for non-elements:

As for slash/pierce damage, I would suggest a similar treatment, where the weapon's original damage isn't changed, but instead the damage from proccing hits would increase, in addition to the procs' damage.

However, as slash/pierce etc mods generally give out less potential damage, crits would be allowed.

 

That's just my two (and maybe a half) grains of salt. I'd also like to see conditional mods, which increase damage on certain conditions. Much like Primed Chamber currently does.

 

Important note:

However, I wouldn't like to see all of this as a nerf. What I'd like to see is the weapons becoming more balanced, and by increasing the build options you could think of, I think we could achieve just that.

 

On to Abilities:

I find abilities very conditional. However, I don't think I own any frames where I could say that I use all four abilities. I suppose most of them are useless to me or just seem obsolete at higher levels. I honestly don't have much anything else to say about this. The mods from Syndicates are a good move in my opinion, as they offer some customization. I guess that's about it for abilities.

 

That became a wall of text quickly.

TL;DR: I'm proposing a damage 3.0

 

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I think Warframe  has a distance to go before it is the Profitable, Unique, Premier Space Ninja Gaming Experience that it can be.

Sliding, Coptering, and Wall Flinging:

I think Warframe movement needs to be a lot faster, responsive, controlable, and fluid, more acrobatic, more spectacular, more urgent, for it to be Space Ninja.  Right now it's movement system is very lame overall.  It has some fast moves but it has a lot of clunk, a lot of lock on slow animations, and pauses, making the fast moves unreliable and virtually irrellevant.  In the amount of time it takes me to execute one move, I can hit the keys 10 times and it all gets ignored.  That's lame.  There is the movement problem.  Limited player agency.  In addition to limited commands, the game ignores the majority of my commands, because it's busy playing long animations or pausing.  It's built in Homer's Drinking Bird or Auto Pilot (like Blade Storm and Peacemaker).

Incidentally, we used to be able to kick in mid air when launched via coptor, but since update 14, that has stopped because an extra, useless and slow, animation was inserted into the animation sequence.  Instead of respecting player agency and Space Ninja, letting us control our Tenno, letting us play the game, another layer of auto-pilot, homer's drinking bird, was inserted into the move set.

Without acceleration and momentum, there would be nothing to counter friction so movement would quickly slow to a halt and nothing Space Ninja would happen.  Without friction the Tenno would slide all over the place.  And, considering how much movement is controlled by auto-pilot animations, it will not attack the heart of the problem but only kill off what little control we do have.

Speaking of friction, why do dual wield melee weapons cause skating in place?  It looks really really bad.  Just ask a boxer or martial artist how that's supposed to work.

What we really expect from Space Ninja movement is to seemingly override physics as if it were possible by just donning super snazzy space long johns, giving us the fast, urgent moves one would expect of combat and Space Ninja.

We need to be able to move our Tenno to where we're aiming, so, the Tenno has to be able to pivot on a dime to go where the reticle is pointing, regardless of what his feet or hands are touching at the moment.

When the Tenno bump into things, they have to adjust course, immediately, so continuing to move into the object until a timer runs out, then sliding off the climable surface as if it wasn't climable, regardless of player input, has to stop.  What is required is responding to player input, not being stuck in an animation loop until time runs out, then not being able to inexplicably grab and push off the climable surface because the null animation, or the weapon sheathing animation, or whatever, is playing.  What we have now is more like a bad CGI than the
Interactve Experience one would expect of a Space Ninja game.

I don't think DE should get rid of butt scoot.  Just let us sprint faster and scoot farther.  Why does it have to be either or?  Why does it have to be lame?  Butt scooting should be a fast fun move we can execute while shooting.  Not something we do to accerate arthritis in our pinkies.  And Butt Scoot in AW, really?  Oh dear.  What next, Kubrow leaves skid marks in space?

That's two more issues with Warframe movement, sprinting interupts shooting and even when you can shoot while doing a move it ruins your aim horribly.  So, you can't have fun doing acrobatic, specatacular, Space Ninja gun play.  Which is wierd for a game with so much Homer's Drinking Bird and Auto Pilot built into it, that a Hollywood or Hong Kong movie would have more specatacular movement/gun play, without CGI, than a Space Ninja game.  Yet the enemy aimbot and bunny hop tall buildings with a single bound like they are the Space Ninjas and the Tenno are Space Wimps.  That's a severe lack of quality.  When non-CGI movies and the AI out Space Ninja the Space Ninjas, something is very very wrong.

At the end of the Year of Quality, will Warframe be low quality, high quality?  Will Warframe be the Premier Game Play Experience for ... something?

Or will Warframe be like all those other game?  Like Mass Effect 3, Dark Souls, Skyrim, The Secret World, D&D, etc., etc., etc.?

Pickups:

Percentage based drops do not matter because it's all controlled by drop tables, and spawn code.  Currently, there is no scarcity of these items unless there is a scarcity of enemy.  That is the underlying issue that creates the scenario the OP describes and it's not changed at all by percentage based drops.

It goes deeper than just the orb and ammo drops.  There just aren't many loot droppers in non-endless missions and the drop tables do not compensate for that.  

It's the same problem with mission rewards.  There is no compensation for endless vs. non-endless.  And, since December, it's gotten even worse.  Even T4 survival has been nerfed via reward table nerf.  Defense is more rewarding than Survival, even in T4.  PodFrame is what Warframe has become.  Sitting on a pod like a pimple gives better mission rewards than trying to play Space Ninja.

So it's worse than the old reward status quo where non-endless missions were always inferior to endless missions.   Now there is a pecking order among endless missions and the least active, least Space Ninja, mission is the most rewarding.  Why not just make a second game about sitting on pod, in a bay, instead of destroying this one?

Space Ninjas sitting on a pod all day like Space Barnacles on a rock while the enemy leap tall buildings in a single bound and aimbot.  Welcome to PodFrame, meet the 101st Fighting Mushrooms, stationed at Kronus Relay, off Saturn.  Today, I played Podframe.  In Podframe, I sat on a pod.  In that pod, was a grey statue.  And I defended it with all my revives.  Then I went for an upright crawl at Kronus.  Exciting commercial, yes?  It could be done by that Dwarf in the LOTR movie.

The game play is being distorted, player base is being fractured, variety and player choice and player agency are being subverted, missions are made obsolete, game play is made obsolete, because the drop tables, spawn code, and mission rewards are distorted.  It ruins the game.

After Viver, when DE reversed the nerfs and capped daily syndicate rep, I had hoped that they had learned the lesson of not destroying game play because of the rewards, because of business model issues.  I had hoped that they had learned to solve business model problems directly without hurting the game play.  But, December's mission reward nerfs have shown that DE has not learned from it's own success.  The misison pecking order was reshuffled, making the least Space Ninja mission into the most rewarding mission.

Damage levels, Powercreep, and Required Mods:

Warframe would not be too difficult without mods that increase damage.  We could all just play mercury with our MK-1 gear.  The game would be nearly at it's slowest, but, some people don't mind that.  The rest of us could do somethng else.  We could play the other 5 trillion games without mod cards.  Because, if Warframe is going to lose elements of it's uniqueness, and not be what it's advertised, we may as well play anything else.

I read the OPs in the source threads and some of them allude to customization, but:
1)  No examples of customizations were available.  Or, none that stood out in my mind.  Or, maybe my subconscious is suppressing the horrors of a great big Trojan Nerf Horse on the horizon.
2)  Mod cards systems are just as customizable as a non-mod card system.  Auras as an example.  Gems and sickets in other games.

Primed mods are funny.  Developers often use the thought of player base fractures to avoid taking up suggestions of various sorts.  But, don't primed mods fracture the player base into haves and have nots?  Don't they lead players to complain that other players are too powerful and others are not?  

It's really strange that in Warframe, high powered builds can play in the same mission as low powered builds.  Then, when the players with low powered builds complain, DE wants to nerf the high powered builds to calm them down, as if that's not a player base fracture created by DE.

And we often hear on the forums that it's not acceptable that players who want nerfs should self nerf their builds.   Yet, it's somehow perfectly fine to shove nerfs down the throats of players who want high powered game play.  Why the special treatment for the nerfers?  Why fracture the player base like that, pittig nerfers vs. non-nerfers?

Why not give the players who want low powered game play conclave rated misisons?  Or missions with nerfs as mission parameters?  Try out a variety of their ideas as tac alerts?  Or just put them on the star chart?  There is a lot of redundant real estate on it.  Let's see how good those nerfs really are.  Creat nerf locations on the star chart.  They'll still get to use and farm all the content.  Turn the star chart into a sieve and let the player base sort itself out.

It seems like there is a built in Nerf Pump in the game, and it's constantly getting primed for the next explosion, like a fracking accident waiting to happen, or like a volcano.  How is that supposed to provide an entertaining gaming experience, waiting for the next Vesuvious, having your fun ripped apart at the behest of special forum players, with every update?  Who would want to spend money on that if they new about it in advance?  Not anyone I know.  It's hard to recommend such a situation to people that I know.

Big numbers are not an issue.  The only thing numbers do is control how fast actions occur, actions such as converting hordes into tons of flying chunks and mist formations.  It's all an aesthetic, an Interaction Aesthetic, like making your own movie in real time.

Why is DE spliting the player base over numbers, over aesthetics?  Please, let's not go the route of the fashionistas.  There is a lot of room in the space mall for everybody.

So many player base fractures in Warframe, all created by DE, behold:

0) Weapon Obsolescence Fracture:

Because there is a weapons' pecking order, only the best weapons are worth investing in, worth the conviniences.  The rest are mastery fodder (a progression system that is no better than a straight up XP system, but much more costly to produce, and kills investment).  This lack of investment opportunities in content, I call Obsolescence.  It's often called Power Creep, but, that is mistaken.  

Obsolescence is what occurs when maximum fitness rating expands in a manner that produces a pecking order among content.  Obsolescence does not occur when all weapons can progress to maximum fitness rating.  Under such circumstances, Obsolscence does not occur no matter how much or how fast power expands, or creeps, because all weapons can keep up, thereby not becoming obsolete.

People will say that the fix for Obsolescence is Incomparables (The Noun).  But, that's like saying Ignorance is Bliss, until it's not, until dissatisfaction gnaws at you and you don't know why.  The idea that things cannot be compared is like a self inflicted lobotomy.  Incomprables are said to be choices that can only be chosen subjectively.  Which makes no sense because everything can be compared for Fitness of Purpose.

One can use a noodle to hammer nails if one subjectively decides to do so.  But, then it's silly to complain that the noodle is not a good hammer and that the hammer is OP at hammering.  It's silly to complain that a 12 oz. hammer is not as good as a sledge hammer at driving 4' stakes into hard rocky frozen ground.

The way to end Obsolescence and creat variety in content, and investment, is to give them all purpose and allow them all to progress to the maximum fitness for their designated purpose.  Not putting on blinders and pretending everything is fine.

1) Shotguns Fracture:  Shotguns, the iconic Boomstick, once popular weapons, now the worst Boomsicks in the game because of spread and damage fall off.  As it plays out in Warframe at the moment, spread and damage fall off have no use, no purpose worth considering, it's pure punishment for daring to have fun.

Shotguns can be compared to any weapon category in the game under all circumstances and found objectively lacking.  They have no purpose.  They're not worth investing in.  Their distinguishing characteristic is spread and damage fall off and under no circumstance is that effective for anything.  Shotguns are not worth the time and effort put into to making them look and sound great, and perform like S#&$.

2) Sniping Fracture:  Sniper Rifles are among the most effective boomsticks in the game, displacing shotguns.  However, that's not what attracts players to them, in their imagination.  Players are attracted to sniper rifles in the hopes of Sniping game play, not shotgun or assualt rifle game play, but, there isn't any in Warframe.  Sniper Rifles are crammed into the same purpose as all fire arms and it distorts them all.

A 12 oz. hammer, a sledge hammer, and a wet noodle are all being expected to compete at cutting vegetables and stiring soup.  That is Warframe's game mechanics design in a nut shell, and the forums encourage it then complain about it.

3) Obsolete Mods fracture:  Required Mods?  What about obsolete mods?

For most rifles, the 4th best mod in terms of DPS is Speed Trigger (preceded by Serration, Multi Shot, and Heavy Calibur).  Getting rid of Serration will not change anything because the pecking order among mods will continue to exist.  Primed Serration will not rid Obsolescnce among mods.  It will just create more haves vs. have nots player base fractures because of it's distribution method, as well as prime the nerf pump.

Speed Trigger is in a different category of mods than mods like Serration are, even though they both impact Damage Per Second.  All strictly damage mods, Serration for example, matter only when used against a destructible object.  They impact both Damage Per Second and Damage Per Shot.  Timing, or weapon cycle, or Seconds Per Shot(or Magazine), mods, such as Speed Trigger for example, matter regardless of the target.  They impact Damage Per Second and not Damage Per Shot.

Damage Per Shot and Damage Per Second are not applicable to indestrucable targets   Only against destrucable targets can Damage Per Shot or Damage Per Second be applied, and felt.

However, Damage Per Second = Damage Per Shot / Seconds Per Shot.  Seconds Per Shot can be felt, against all targets.  Furthermore, the factors that constitue Seconds Per Shot (magazine size, reload time, rate of fire, charge time) determine the Firing Time Ratio of a weapon, the portion of time spent firing the weapon divided by the amount of time spent firing it plus reloading it.  Firing Time Ratio can always be felt.  The entire cycle of a weapon can always be felt regardless of what one shoots at.  It's Interaction Aesthetic, regardless of how much damage is done or not done.

Just take a look at any discusion involving Tigris's low Firing Time Ratio.  Some people like it precisely for that.  It gives them a sense of suspense that they enjoy.  (But only upto a certain enemy level because of Obsolescence.  After a certain enemy level, they are TSOL as there are no investment opportunties for them with Tigris and most likely no other weapon with the Interaction, Visual, and Audio Aesthetics they want.)  

Players who could like a particular weapon if they could customize it without losing effectiveness, are TSOL in Warframe because of the mod pecking order placing Speed Trigger above Slip Magazine and Fast Hands.

The mod pecking order distorts Interaction Aesthetics like all the other arbitrary pecking orders in the game.  Interaction Aesthetics distortion removes whatever feelings players may have to invest in the game.  It makes players feel like throwing the game away, along with it's heap of throw away content, for a higher quality Interaction Aesthetic of their choosing.

The effects of this distortion are evident on the forums because so many players complain about it, without understanding it at all or caring about the player base fractures that they promote, and the negative consequences.

It's rare to see complaints on the forums, let alone forums riots, about the visual or audio aesthetics, compared to the mountain of complaints regarding Interaction Aesthetics.  There might have been some mention of Trinity's lobster tail in a hot topic, once.  Probably not.  I don't remember many, if any, rage quits or forum riots over Trinity's lobster tail.  Don't remember seeing any Minky memes as a result of his refusal to get rid of her lobster tail.  

Rage quits and forum riots over Interaction Aesthetics are more obvious.  But, by no means is that the only result.  Since Warframe is Free To Play, Not Pay To Win, it's very easy for a paying player to just convert into a free player before just moving on, possibly, never coming back after sorting out DE's Method Of Operation.  It's as easy as just playing Mercury when all the damage mods cards go away, like how we all started the game, without mods.  How much profit does Mercury bring to Warframe?  Are there many Mercury Whales in Warframe?

Grab and Throw Mechanics:

I'd rather just kill them.  The current animation system can't handle this sort of thing.  It'll be too sedate and involved to matter.  Rather than empowering the player, giving them agency, it'll be another drawn out Homer's Drinking Bird, another Auto-Pilot, in the animation system.  It could be a fist/claws/sparring stance.

Abilities and “Energy 2.0”:

The problem isn't energy.  The problem is Obsolete abilities.  I saw nothing proposed in that source thread that would make Obsolete abilities not obsolete.  No one is going to use an ability that does less damage than their gun unless it has a purpose.

All of the following 1 an 2 abilities have a purpose so players use them:
Smoke Screen
Sonar
Radial blind
Banish
Riftwalk
Invisibility
Pull
Hall of Mirrors
Iron Skin
Speed
Shock

To challenge this point, relative to the source thread, I propose people use Volt with starter gear on Mercury.  I bet they will find Shock very useful under those circumstances, and far into the solar chart, from the perspective of a new account.  The same could be said about Mag and Excalibur, under circumstances.

Ash, has increased health and some low cost abilities, with the right mods, he's great for No Shields and/or Energy Drain Nightmare Mode.  Under the circumstances, he's a lot of fun to play, very unique among warframes, under circumstances RNG locked for no good reason at all.

But, that is the underlying issue with Warframe, creating all the problems raised in the OP.  Warframe is dead.  Podframe tooks it's place.  The vast majority of Tenno content in Warframe lacks purpose and progression, it goes nowhere, therby making it Obsolete.

Taking ideas from other games when there is no purpose to any of it is not going to change a single thing, other than to finally kill Warframe once and for all.

And to finish off in fun and style, this week's Hot Topic Song is ...



 

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Sliding, Coptering and Wall Flinging:
Well what can I say? I don't mind the way these mechanics are right now, but one thing that I usually don't like is the fact that the character keeps rolling after a small falling, when this happens the rolling mechanic is unstoppable and almost tends to make me fall after trying going to a certain location on the Void where it's only possible through parkour or via the use of certain warframe abilities like Nova's Wormhole. So I think it's intead a good idea trying to make some improvements to the Parkour system.
Let me give you an idea for the Parkour 2.0, I played other games like Tomb Raider and Prince of Persia some time ago and those really had a parkour system that was easy to master and awesome. What I mean by that is that you could basically grab on the edge and stay there, or you could move sideways and let it go or climb whenever you whould like. In fact if you take a close look the parkour mechanics of those games you'll see what I mean.
But even so I just don't see how the currentparkour system could be improved, but I can say that the coptering system actually depends on each melee weapon, for example the Galatine is a heavy sword which mean that its coptering doesn't give much distance, so I instead use the directional attacks. In fact I tend to find myself using the directional attacks more times than coptering, especially when I want to get to certain places on any tileset.

Damage levels, Powercreep and Required Mods:
I've heard something about the possible removal of damage type mods or what so ever. Well I think that those mods SHOULD NOT be removed, but instead be improved in someway. I mean you'll have to consider the existance of weapons that don't deal much damage and the damage mods are the only things that can help them to deal more damage, so it's better not to remove the damage type mods. But either way I think that the damage type mods are just fine, I don't think that they need improvements at all. They could of course recieve some tweakings and so, but they don't need to be removed. I actually don't like making missions that are too hard for me, therefore the damage type mods souldn't be removed because they are needed for those type or super hard missions.

Grab and Throw Mechanics:
Well I'm not sure about this topic but, pretty much like on the 1st, this idea of grabbing enemies only depends on the mechanics of each game. I mean, we have to understand that Warframe is essentially a shooter game, not some kind of Smash Bros. where you can grab and throw your opponents away.
When I played Prince of Persia 2 the grab mechanic really made sence once that the game was purely melee/combo fight mechanic, I'm not seeing how the grab mechanic could work for Warframe once that it's essentially a shooter game. I mean, in case you spot an enemy, especially a heavy unit, the first thing you want to do is to kill him/her as fast as possible, or to run for cover in case your in a highly serious situation. I'm not sure about most players but sometimes I like to knockdown heavy units by going Dynamic Entery on them, or rather kicking them, giving me enough time to finish them off.
Sure that you can already "grab" enemies with Valkyr's Ripline and Mag's Pull, which mean you can basially go Mortal Kombat style on them (GET OVER HERE!!!) but that hardly counts. ^_^;
But anyway, this idea of being able to grab enemies in Warframe seems to fit better for when you want more ways of stealth kills instead of grabbing them in the middle of the fight with everyone shooting at you. In other words, if you instead use the grab and throw mechanics as part of stealth kills that will be much better.

Abilities and "Energy 2.0":
Well it's not like that I use all or just some abilities of all warframes that I currently have, it all depends on each warframe, it doesn't mean that the 4th ability is always the most used by most players. The idea, as far as I could see in some videos, is all about knowing what each ability is capable off.
I usually try to give as much use of all abilities as I can, but it all depends of the situations. For example:
Nova: Being one of my favorite warframes, I mosly try to kee using Null Star once that it can be used as a defensive mechanism for her in order to stay alive. I only use Wormhole when I want to reach to certain areas, the Antimatter Drop is also useful yet I don't use it that much once that I need to know how to use it. Molecular Prime is basically that ability that most players can but 2 different kinds of builds: slow or speedy. I now understand why is that, the speedy MPrime allows it to travel much farther, however I mostly prefer the slow build because it can help me to take care of the enemies when their movements are drastically slower.
Saryn: She's also my favorite and I almost use all of her abilities, her Miasma can almosy instantly kill all enemies around and the Venom and Molt abilities have poison proc effects, I also like to use the Molt to distract the enemies. But the Contagion doesn't seem to create any effect at all, I don't know, probably because I didn't put any duration mods on my Saryn, but it still something that some times I try to use in some cases.
Valkyr: I like to use the Ripline to get to hight places, grabbing enemies with it is quite hard. Some times I use Parasylis but only on heavy units to finish them off. However I mostly use Hysteria in combination with Warcry, especially when I want to prevent the enemies to ever kill me once that it allows Valkyr to become immune to anything.
Mirage: Like with Nova, I moslty use Hall of Mirror in orther to stay alive as much as possible, also in combination with Eclipse for other effects. Prims almost takes forever to cast but it's useful, even to stun the enemies. Also I try to use Sleight of Hand as a supportive ability in missions like Mobile Defence, especially when I want to prevent those dolts to ever trigger the allarm or even to lock the doors.
Excalibur: I remember that Radial Blind had more usefulness before not being able to go through walls anymore, but in compensation Radial Javelin goes where all enemies are in range, even through walls. Also I use Slash Dash whenever I feel like and Super Jump is more useful to get to high places.

In short, it all comes down to skill and knowledge of all Warframe/Archwing abilities.

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Base damage mods that add raw damage should be removed. To make any weapong good or viable, it is a MUST. Let the weapons gain power as they level up. For instance:

 

Soma does 12 damage at base. and a fully ranked serration would bring it up to a 31. In order to apply this damage at the end. Increase the damage of the weapon by 15% every 3 levels. At rank 20, it has the equivalent of a level 10 Serration. This would free up more slots on our weapons for better things, clip size, ammo mutations, etc. Because right now, maximized builds only require damage mods.

 

On top of that, lets talk about multishot. It makes sense to be a mod, but wouldn't that be something better fitted for a focus system?

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Sliding, Coptering, and Wall Flinging:

I think that most players will agree that proper movement is a skill and that theses tools are a mechanism for our skill to be expressed.

 

As such Sliding is fine, but Slide Attacks (coptoring) are not because because it doesn't have a drawback inherent to it's function; like rocket jumping: player injury or slash dash: energy cost. However straight removal of the "slingshot" would prevent me from hitting targets are not where I am sliding. I think that there should be some penalty for using Slide attack without hitting anything, and as a preliminary guess extra stamina use would be a fine starting drawback.

 

I have no experience with wall flinging but I thing that wall running should have a "crouch" change to allow me to slow down my wall running speed to make things easier to hit with my guns and my wall attacks, however wall-running's stamina cost does not need to be decreased because I am choosing to use my stamina to line up a future action like a wall fling.

 

On powers I made a post on it recently but I will just link it here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/386101-fixing-powers/

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If so many player want a change to coptering, I will make a request if DE thinks seriously about to remove/change/nerf it:

 

 

Allow people to move as fast, simple and precise as with melee without melee if you want to remove/nerf the movement component. This does not mean that you simply increase the basemovement-speed, we need also some kind of a dash ability for every frame which works accelerating, which does not depend on the environment and is completly free to use (no energy costs!).

 

 

If you add such a mechanism, I'm for a rework of the melee movement.

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About the grabbing enimies thing, it would be really cool if you could grab enemies and use them as a shield for a little bit

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Pleeeeeease do not nerf coptering/sliding. This movement is part of what makes warframe so fun, and feel so fluid. It makes you feel like liquid death washing over the map killing everything in sight. It is also something I feel is a completely unique draw to this game. Sprinting about is old news, flow like a Tenno!

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Adder9 doesn't seem to know that you can actually choose whether you want an acceleration in your slide or not.

One of the latest updates to the slide attack perfected that move. Not only can you choose whether you want an acceleration, you can actually decide how much acceleration you want in your slide attack.

 

Here is how you perform a slide without an acceleration:

1. Make sure you're NOT using the toggle crouch.

2. When performing the slide, instantly release the crouch button after pressing the melee key.

There, you slided without an acceleration.

 

And to perform a slide with acceleration:

1. When performing a slide, do NOT release the crouch button after pressing the melee key.

 

There is more. The longer you hold down the crouch, the more acceleration you can get.

Want a small acceleration? Hold it down just for a split of a second.

Want the max acceleration? Hold the crouch throughout the slide attack.

 

So yes, slide attack is very controllable nowadays.

The main issue I have with parcouring nowadays is this: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/355552-jump/?hl=%2Bjump+%2Bcollision

 

^Everything this guy said rings true. Please don't remove these features since they make the game unique and beautiful.

It still has me feeling like a bad-! space ninja whenever I pull off a fling or flop across the better part of a room,

drop into a roll, do a 180 around a corner and one-shot a heavy gunner in the head.

There's just nothing like it anywhere, and one of the main attractions of Warframe.

 

If I want to play a slow run-of-the-mill shooter then the market has that covered.

Only Warframe is Warframe (Destiny is a pale, shameful comparison).

 

Also I want to grab all the things! Like, pick up a grineer or a charger and use it as a shield. Yeah!

Even better if I can pick them up and copter across the world with them in tow.

 

As for serration, it's a cool mod and I have it maxed. But then there's splitshot and then there's heavy caliber and then...

I like them but I won't miss them I think. Only solution I can think of here is if removed, the guns need to be fully powered on their

own and we only mod fire rates and elemental stuff and proc% and whatnot. But that's just more of the same isn't it?

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Sliding, Coptering, and Wall Flinging:
Personally, I would like to see Parkour/Movement 2.0 come with an increase to base movement/sprint speed so that these tricks hardly feel necessary, while still keeping some advantage to using these tricks such as quickly crossing large gaps. I have some friends who are not very good at coptering or have trouble using the slide controls. Bringing base speed closer to the potential of the more average coptering weapons would be great, though maybe tone down some of the insanely fast weapons flinging you insane and impractical distances.
 
Pickups:
Health pickups should scale with content, either in drop frequency or health restored. Energy pickups are probably fine. Ammo pickups need to be evaluated on a per-weapon basis, high fire rate weapons such as Grakata need to have more ammo restored from pickups.
 
Damage levels, Powercreep, and Required Mods:
Serration and base damage mods need to go. These mods currently only exist to be a required sink of time and resources for all players, limiting your build freedom and taking away mod capacity. Damage should be baked into the weapon right from rank 0, or powered up as the weapon levels up. Multi-shot is a bit of a different beast. It should be a potentially amazing mod choice for some weapons but less effective for others. Mods in general need to provoke more thought than "Is this a crit weapon? What faction is it going to be good against? What elemental damage do I need for that faction?"
 
If base damage mods are to go, I insist all players get compensated with appropriate fusion cores/credits/ducats for these mods being taken out (for all ranks of them, not just fully-leveled). If base damage mods are to stay, I still insist that Primed Point Blank was a slap in the face to all players, as it should have never existed. Point Blank should have just changed to 10 ranks max.
 
Grab and Throw Mechanics:
Absolutely yes, without question. I want to be able to grab one guy and make a well-placed throw into a crowd so he knocks over 5-10 other guys. Make it happen.
 
Abilities and “Energy 2.0”:
I really have no problem with the overall system for energy/abilities. However,  many frames need an ability or two looked at to make sure all of their abilities are attractive beyond hitting 4. Consider how many enemies it might hit, how much damage it might do, how situational it is (e.g. Silence), how often players are actually using that ability vs other abilities in a frame's toolkit. Reduce costs and/or increase damage accordingly. Make some abilities scale with enemy health so not everything boils down to crowd control.

And then there's Nekros, who needs to be completely reworked to not be just a loot harvester.

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I feel some of the extremes should be evened out in coptering. If it's going to be a thing, it need to be semi-viable regardless of what what you're swinging. Not 'take one of these six or don't bother as walking is faster'.

 

I also feel that some of the damage should be taken off of the mods and put back into the weapons. Weapons go up in conclave as they rank even without mods, so why not give them slight boosts as we 'wear them in' and get used to them?

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Sliding, Coptering, and Wall Flinging:

 

I don't really care , it would save my mouse 3rd area which is not made for this ... , but IF you do this (seem like you will do whatever the poll result will be) atleast remove the Stamina system so we can run / melee withouth thinking that we can't copter

 

Pickups:

 

Can't disagree this post , some weapon are bullet eater need to be fixed even with ammo mutation mods some are terrible , for Health orb , when i started warframe it used to drop everywhere... but i had low health so ,there was to much health orb drop for what I need'ed . for Energy well , will waiting for a fix people use energy restore , but getting 20 energy when the first cost double is not good.

 

Damage levels, Powercreep, and Required Mods:

Well ,something it's sure we love power / damage I got one kind of idea,why not simply make them earned from mastery rank? so instead of being killing machine at rank 2 because trade allow it , make it so we get More Health , More Shield ,More Power , More Damage from doing succesfull mastery test , this is a random exemple : from Mastery rank 0 to 1 you get + 2% to all stats , and more then from 1 to 2 4% etc

and for Primed Serration , Yes & No , because maxing out this mods will cost alot , and burn alot of mod point ,but for those who can do this , they will just kill faster than they used to do (they probably was doing stuff easy enought probably

 

Grab and Throw Mechanics:

Depends ,it could be interering system, don't know if it will be used alot ,but I think when you are in trouble could be somewhat good

 

Abilities and “Energy 2.0”:

This can't be serious just for the post name "The anti 4" it's wrong , People don't use 1-2-3 (not for all frame ) because they are :

 

-Weak

-To much repetitive

-Does not do what i would like

-it's won't make people use more other's power

-I've to add I don't understand why you guys need to want to stop people playing with one power if they want to let them be , it's not something you

should care , theire is no ranking , nothing to win ,so just play nicely and if someone abuse just ask nicely to slow down instead of tryng to stop everybody because you don't like something.

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Coptering should lose it's acceleration, but wall flinging should be toned down.  Sliding is okay as it is, as we can't sprint inside dojo and relay and ship.

Pickups could use a little revision, graphically if not nothing else.  Health pickups should heal a little more, because they don't drop unless Nekros is desecrating or Obby is ulting, and he has a heal anyways.

 

I think weapons' damage should scale with level.  Serration should be built in.  Everything else should be optional.  However, what if instead of mod rank, we based mod effectiveness on weapon level.  IE, for a weapon that goes to rank 30 and a mod that goes to level 5 with 6 steps (unranked,1,2,3,4,5), the mod's effectiveness on the weapon should increase one level for every 5 ranks the weapon is.  So a rank 26 weapon would have a level 4/5 mod.

 

Grabbing would be situational.  Normally, we rush, so grabbing wouldn't help because we kill everything so quickly.  In later levels, like t4 survival, if we could execute a grabbed enemy, I'd use it, even more so if we could use a grabbed enemy as a meat shield at the cost of reloads with our primary but with no cost with our secondary.  IE I'd have to drop the enemy to reload my Boltor Prime, but I could reload my Tysis at will with a meat shield.
Perhaps meat shields would provide damage reduction like Ember's old Overheat, and that DR would decay as the body took more damage?

I use most abilities a little bit, some warframes are better than others with that.  I'll use Saryn's 2 and 4, but her 1 and 3 don't scale well at later levels.  Ember tends to be weak in all levels.  With Excal I'll use everything unless I build specifically for one ability.  Etc.

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If things like serration were removed, I'd hope enemies and their HP scale better. Things like serration have been made fairly mandatory to survive. So if it is changed/removed please remember we are going to do that much LESS damage. The enemies armor/hp has to remember that. It'd open up a new world of loadout options if we didn't rely so heavily on it.

 

If it does go bye-bye. I hope we get our fusion cores of compensation for building the thing up.

 

 

Never been able to wall fling/attack/jump/run with any regular consistency so I'd like a system that has more control.

 

Depends on the frame if I use all 4 abilities or not. Some I do, some I don't.

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Sliding, Zorencoptering, and wall-flinging:

IMO they are just fine as they are. However, sprinting needs to be buffed. I have never had problems with missing melee attacks due to slide attack movement speed.

Solution: No change to sliding, "Zorencoptering", and wall-flinging. Just buff sprinting so it gives a massive speed increase, on par with sprinting in the original Mass Effect (for reference, the original Mass Effect had a sprinting option that lets you run 3x as fast as normal).

--------------

Ammo/energy/health drops:

IMO the entire consumable/item drop system is defective by design. I would argue that consumables and being able to "run out of supplies" in the middle of a fight rewards consumable-spamming instead of actual skill.

Many old/classic role-playing games had this problem, where you could be absolutely lousy at the game and win because your inventory was an arsenal of scrolls, potions, and wands. Alternately you could actually have a clue how to play the game and lose anyway because you ran out of consumables.

The energy drop system is defective by design. I can't think of any other game that limits ability use through item drops. Switch to a cooldown system or a regenerating energy system or something, almost anything would be better than the energy drop system that forces everyone to "equip energy siphon or GTFO".

Health orbs need to be more common and scale with mission level and/or maximum health if they are supposed to be the standard way to regenerate lost health. I would also suggest slowly regenerating health (built-in Rejuvenation for frames). Health orbs need to drop more frequently and from more enemies, and perhaps they could give a quarter of maximum health (also an indirect buff to Vitality)

The ammo drop system is yet another defective implementation that's way overdue for an overhaul. I can't think of any other FPS/TPS that gives every weapon the same amount of ammo per item drop.

Currently, you always get 10 or 20 ammo no matter what weapon you are using. As a result, most rapid-fire weapons are trash and everyone is forced to squeeze as much damage as they can into their upgrade loadout.

The obvious system is to give different weapons different amounts of ammo and ammo regeneration. Archwing sets a good precedent for the ammo system. IMO, standard missions should also have slow ammo regeneration, with ammo drops giving a large amount of ammo instantly (see above explanation on how reliance on consumables diminishes the skill-based aspect of a game).

Warframe's TPS style is often compared to Mass Effect (except that Warframe is fast-paced, not cover-based). With that in mind, here are some examples of how broken and unplayable Mass Effect 2 would be if it was "balanced" like Warframe:

-Every weapon gets 10 ammo per random ammo drop (from enemies), 20 ammo for ammo drops found in missions. As a result, the only useful weapons are sniper rifles, shotguns, and heavy pistols because anything else will just run out of ammo.

-Abilities wouldn't recharge, instead you have to pick up energy from enemies that randomly drops. In addition, some enemies project a field that nullifies every ability. As a result, no one plays as an Engineer, Sentinel, or Adept.

-No health regeneration: you can only regain health with the Unity ability and random drops from enemies. Additionally, every enemy has a random chance to bleed proc through shields, which diminishes health. There is no way to avoid it except being in cover 100% of the time. 1-2 recruitable characters may have healing abilities.

-Conditions and knockdowns disregard shields. No way to prevent/avoid them except taking cover. You can get knocked down randomly any time you aren't hiding behind cover. (IMO, Mass Effect's approach to "no conditions or knockdowns while shielded/armored" would be a welcome improvement over Warframe's "conditions and knockdowns everywhere")

-Non-regenerating armor buffs would be applied over regenerating shields. (See also: Iron Skin). I can't think of any other game where armor is worn over shields.

-Insanity difficulty challenge: No shields.

Is that ridiculous, or is that ridiculous?

------------------

Required upgrades (Serration/Hornet Strike) and Power Creep

Solution to Power Creep: Limit enemy scaling.

#1:remove scaling damage resistance.

Currently, Grineer are overpowered because they scale cubically with level:

-Health increase per level

-Armor increase (damage reduction) per level

-Increased chance per level of being an Eximus

This is ridiculous. Remove damage reduction scaling with amount of enemy armor. Just make it like armor in Mass Effect 2 - another layer of health with different resistances.

Removing scaling damage resistance decreases need to focus on damage. It also provides viable endgame damage options besides puncture and corrosive.

#2: impose hard/soft level limit on enemies.

One easy and obvious solution is to limit enemies at a reasonable, difficult level, perhaps 40. Another solution is to have enemies scale up to level 30-35, and then additional health/damage/shield/armor/etc increases per level diminish greatly (soft level limit).

#3: Make ammo and reload upgrades viable. Properly scale ammo drops or make ammo regenerate, further removing the need for "damage everywhere".

----------------

Grab and throw:

This might be a nice addition in the future... once Warframe's existing issues are fixed.

----------------

Energy 2.0:

Just use a cooldown-based system or a regenerating energy system like every normal game does.

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But removing Serrations without rebalancing the entire damage system would still results in people putting other damage mods into their weapons. Be it corrupted or elemental, people would still want the highest damage possible.

 

But they WOULD rebalance it, so your entire point is moot. 

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But they WOULD rebalance it, so your entire point is moot. 

 

There's no effective way to "rebalance" the system such that people won't chase damage in one sort or another. The reasons for this are because of human nature. Whether it's an extra 5% damage or an extra 500% damage, people will always choose to do more damage.

 

Like, people like to say that making elemental mods convert X% of a weapon's damage into that element instead of simply adding X% elemental damage would make builds more viable. It wouldn't. People would still build corrosive/cold in the void simply because of the procs and damage boosts vs armor.

Unless you're willing to get rid of the entire armor/flesh/shield vulnerability system, but that'd be a tremendous step back.

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I think the sliding, coptering and wall flinging should have a slight change , for zephyr for when she flings off the wall , some sort of wings on her back make it so she glides in the air She can finnaly be a Gliding Bird of DEATH, Sliding is fine but i think they should have a minor buff to the coptering making it FASTER THAN EVER MWUAHAHAHAHAHHAH..

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There's no effective way to "rebalance" the system such that people won't chase damage in one sort or another. The reasons for this are because of human nature. Whether it's an extra 5% damage or an extra 500% damage, people will always choose to do more damage.

The hell are you talkin' bout? Do you think this is some kinda comedy routine? Can I play the straight man and say, in the most deadpan way Imaginable "Damage? are you sure you're not talking about sit-ups?"

 

I can't actually make that funny or grammatically correct. You need better material for this to work. Please stop posting... annoyingly worded falsities. 

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