January 16Th: Community Hot Topics!

[Drejzer]

What pains me is the fact that i cannot continue my air-dash(melee) into a wall-run...

I sprint, slide, jump, use the air melee for distance and attitude fly like a swallow... and beautifully slide down the wall because I aimed a tad too low and arrived just below the edge (or slam the ground because I pressed "E" for 0.25s too long...).

After thinking a while I made up my mind (too late, 'cuz I voted...):

Those grabs! so many possibilities!

Yeah... wall-flings are unreliable, coptering seems weird, and vaulting is simply impractical... (and the air melee is not-so-trustworthy [see above])

 

so remove 1 person from "no opinion" and put it into "other"

Edited January 18, 2015 by Drejzer

[Brynslustafir]

What pains me is the fact that i cannot continue my air-dash(melee) into a wall-run...

I sprint, slide, jump, use the air melee for distance and attitude... and beautifully slide down the wall because I aimed a tad too low and arrived just below the edge (or slam the ground because I pressed "E" for 0.25s too long...).

Yes, being able to Chain mobility attacks and moves is a big part of any good movement system for an action game. 

[WrathAscending]

Coptering and other movement modes: Personally I do not make use of coptering and find rushers to be annoying. My playstyle is not for everyone and I'm sure rushers find my speed annoying too. I suspect that removing coptering would enrage a (large? vocal?) portion of the fanbase. Making frames faster or granting them higher base stamina would likely be a less incendiary solution.

 

Pickups: About the only issue I have with pickups is how rarely health orbs drop unless an Oberon, Nekros, or Trinity with the ability augment is present. The cash crunch is a perennial issue, especially for newer players.

 

Damage Mods: I think there was something of a lack of foresight as to how damage-boosting mods like Serration or Hornet Strike would stack with Heavy Calibre or Magnum Force and then Split Chamber or Barrel Diffusion and Lethal Torrent. Couple this with the Corrupted mods frequently not having any actual negative effect since their accuracy modifier rarely results in significant deviation from the intended point of aim and damage balloons even further. On the other hand, enemies can scale into near-invulnerability, so players will naturally want to turn the tables on them. I believe the developers have said that removing Serration or other similar mods isn't in their plans, which is good.

 

Perhaps coupling some exclusivity to mods so that players can have either Serration or Heavy Calibre but not both and either Barrel Diffusion or Lethal Torrent but not both with a balancing pass over enemy power levels would be a better compromise. I would also suggest that mods like Heavy Calibre and Magnum Force have a different effect than the current accuracy debuff- something like reducing the shots per clip (or ammunition in reserve, for bows) for Heavy Calibre or increasing weapon recoil for Magnum Force. If exclusivity is implemented for the damage mods, the corrupted mods would need a damage boost to take them above the standard mods and make them a viable option- players would then be choosing between a weapon that is easier to use but which deals less damage than a weapon that is more difficult to control or which requires greater precision due to the more limited clip size.

 

I also feel that Point Blank and Pressure Point need a damage increase. Releasing Primed Point Blank as a means of addressing the damage discrepancy between shotguns and other primary weapons was a start, but levelling it can be quite a pain. Melee weapons would require a bit more work to balance in any case due to the wild damage variations between crit and speed builds, but as it stands it's rare to see anything other than the Orthos Prime, Bo Prime, Dragon Nikana or Dual Ichors, which represent a tiny fraction of the available melee weapons.

 

Enemy Grabbing: If implemented it would probably be better handled with a new melee weapon and style mod. Control mapping is an issue.

 

Warframe Abilities: Even before the recent removal of power mods from frames I rarely if ever made use of all powers on a frame. I usually build around one or two powers so those are exceptionally good rather than having a more generalist build where all the abilities are rapidly outpaced by enemy levelling. The ways different abilities draw on different stat modifiers is often counter-intuitive, so if any changes are to be made I would rather see it done by standardising the system.

 

Power Duration: Affects only how long a power lasts on a target after being cast. No longer affects Slash Dash, Molecular Prime travel radius, Super Jump, etc.

Power Strength: Affects only how much damage a power does, how much health it restores, how many shield points it adds, and so on.

Power Radius: Affects only how far a power reaches. Determines how far Molecular Prime will travel, how far Slash Dash reaches, how high Super Jump or Tail Wind will take you, etc.

Power Efficiency: Affects only how much energy an ability costs to activate.

[Jahadaya]

The fact that the community is honestly voting to keep base damage mods is disappointing me. 

[geninrising]

The fact that the community is honestly voting to keep base damage mods is disappointing me. 

Me too, but of course shortsightedness is common when it comes to a perceived nerf, and never does the health of the game factor in.

[Innocent_Flower]

The fact that the community is honestly voting to keep base damage mods is disappointing me. 

 

 

Me too, but of course shortsightedness is common when it comes to a perceived nerf, and never does the health of the game factor in.

when I first looked at this thread, I saw fairly even split between keeping and removing. now it isn't so much. I'm even now suspecting foul play; The notion to make such mods even more powerful was previously a minority feature. less than 10% picked it as an option (and it's an incredibly harmful idea for the game. It's not a funny joke). During the the first 24 hours of the poll the community was pretty split with about 25% on the keep, 10% on the buff, 24% on the remove and 14% on the change. It's changed so very much since then.  

 

Maybe it's a bunch of people without serious thought on the matter, I mean picking the 'keep' option: 

-it's one step above not having an opinion to go with what's current (odd way of thinking, but a lot are like that) 

-They're under the assumption that they won't get compensated for their lost mods. 

 

 

But seriously; Buffing damage mods? There's no way a logical person who's put thought into the subject could vote that way. Maybe it's one of the more fanatical power-tripers making alts to vote on. 

 

Eh, Maybe DE Drew is to blame? 

 Some of the source threads discuss the repercussions of removing Serration and the effect that would have on power levels. Do you think Warframe would be too difficult without mods that increase damage?

Yo, Biased much? Work under the assumption that enemies get rebalanced too. 

Edited January 18, 2015 by Innocent_Flower

[geninrising]

when I first looked at this thread, I saw fairly even split between keeping and removing. now it isn't so much. I'm even now suspecting foul play; The notion to make such mods even more powerful was previously a minority feature. less than 10% picked it as an option (and it's an incredibly harmful idea for the game. It's not a funny joke). During the the first 24 hours of the poll the community was pretty split with about 25% on the keep, 10% on the buff, 24% on the remove and 14% on the change. It's changed so very much since then.  

 

Maybe it's a bunch of people without serious thought on the matter, I mean picking the 'keep' option: 

-it's one step above not having an opinion to go with what's current (odd way of thinking, but a lot are like that) 

-They're under the assumption that they won't get compensated for their lost mods. 

 

 

But seriously; Buffing damage mods? There's no way a logical person who's put thought into the subject could vote that way. Maybe it's one of the more fanatical power-tripers making alts to vote on. 

Agreed, I have the same thoughts on the What abilities do you use question but various individuals have screamed at me for it so I'm just biding my time to see if they correlate the answers given to the actual ability use data to see if they are about right where the poll says they should be.

 

Due to the fact that there could be a huge potential nerf inbound IF all players admitted to said p42w mentality. It's along the lines of your ideal on power trippers making alts to vote in MOAR POWER. Instead it could be a bid to KEEP said un-metered power usage.

[Karmak13]

TLDR: Pure damage mods should be removed and worked into the base damage via the leveling of weapons (Every 3 levels add the % rank damage into the base damage of the weapon)

 

My opinion on pure damage weapons mods is this:

 

With damage mods such as these, the pure mods hornet strike, serration, and pressure point. I believe they should be wrapped up and included into the base weapon damage themselves. This would increase damage on all weapons overall but free up mod space.

 

Here is where it would be more interesting: Since all weapons lvl up, every 3 levels, increase the base damage of the weapons by 15% (in serrations example). So by the time the weapon has reached lvl 30 it will have 165% extra damage.

 

This will help newer and veteran players alike, allowing weapons to level during missions will allow some missions to last longer and not having to back out to mod your weapons as much.

 

In the long run this will allow for more overall customization to weapons. Still using the Braton as a rifle example, you could customize it to be a faster reloading, higher magazine, and silenced weapon. This pulls less focus on damage and more on the situational  customization, as well as giving a feel good incentive to leveling a weapon up.

 

This example only includes serration and not including mods like Heavy caliber. I think in this situation, corrupted mods that included damage could be changed to be less effective by lowering the % increase damage and reduction to accuracy, still making it worth getting but not feel necessary.

 

Also, you could then change the way elemental work to either be "Additional elemental damage" as they are now, or change them to "convert" a % of damage to elemental.

 

Thanks for reading, I know a lot of it seems convoluted. I kept typing and my brain stopped working. :P 

[Ryjeon]

Coptering, Sliding, and Wall-flinging are some of the only deep mechanics in the game offering limitless ways for people to improve their own ability to pilot their character and augment their mobility. I like the fact that coptering a Tipedo feels very different than coptering a Gram and that it's up to the player to adjust their playstyle accordingly. Taking coptering out of the game isn't going to make people stop rushing. It's just going to hurt the people who use these mechanics as part of their combat repertoire. I love that from nearly any position in a room I can take a running jump and strike a target in the head with a melee weapon from 20 meters away. These tools increase melee precision and survivability and reward the player for the time spent learning to chain them together effectively.

 

Saying they are only useful for skipping content and that they are uncontrollable mechanics entirely misrepresents their gameplay potential and their place in Warframe.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Ryjeon

[(PSN)Alcatraz235]

I have a few suggestions that could come up in an update that would benefit everyone and make the game  a lot more fun. 

1. Could you please add the emotes to the dojo because when i promote my clan members i would like to be able to bow to them instead of crouching. This i  think will make the game alot more fun and interesting.

2. To me i think it would be pretty cool if there was a mode where players could fight each other using their ships.

3.Also i think it would be in everyone's best interest if there was also syndicate decals you could build in the dojo such as ,Flags,Statues,ect that would also be very very cool.

 

If only two of these above could be brought in an update i would choose number 1 and 3 i really hope that someday soon you can use the emotes to bow,meditate,ect in the dojo it would be really cool  

 

These are just some ideas ive been thinking about-Alcatraz235

Edited January 18, 2015 by (PS4)Alcatraz235

[Jahadaya]

when I first looked at this thread, I saw fairly even split between keeping and removing. now it isn't so much. I'm even now suspecting foul play; The notion to make such mods even more powerful was previously a minority feature. less than 10% picked it as an option (and it's an incredibly harmful idea for the game. It's not a funny joke). During the the first 24 hours of the poll the community was pretty split with about 25% on the keep, 10% on the buff, 24% on the remove and 14% on the change. It's changed so very much since then.  

 

Maybe it's a bunch of people without serious thought on the matter, I mean picking the 'keep' option: 

-it's one step above not having an opinion to go with what's current (odd way of thinking, but a lot are like that) 

-They're under the assumption that they won't get compensated for their lost mods. 

 

 

But seriously; Buffing damage mods? There's no way a logical person who's put thought into the subject could vote that way. Maybe it's one of the more fanatical power-tripers making alts to vote on. 

 

Eh, Maybe DE Drew is to blame? 

 

 

Yo, Biased much? Work under the assumption that enemies get rebalanced too. 

Agree 100%

 

And holy crap I just noticed that people voting to BUFF pure damage mods is actually surprisingly alot. I assumed that choice was a joke from the start. wtf are people smoking? 

[Dr4m4t1c]

Instead of having mods, I think our warframe and weapon's stats should increase as you level. Serration and its kin should be removed and replaced by a rank - to - damage system, this way, the best players are the most skilled, not the best farmers.

I would say instead of having them entirely removed they could be made to work like the warframe shields where the base damage of the weapons and other stats improve but addition of the mods would result in an increase but only using the base damage the weapon came with. This though is just a random thought.

[YogatBear]

I think limbo needs a revision or something as for the last question...

[geninrising]

Agree 100%

 

And holy crap I just noticed that people voting to BUFF pure damage mods is actually surprisingly alot. I assumed that choice was a joke from the start. wtf are people smoking? 

What those same people are not taking into account is that all things in WF must remain balanced to a degree and that commensurate buffs to enemies must take place as our overall DPS goes up.

 

Whereas if the removed said mods or integrated them into weapon leveling we might possibly catch a break. As it is most enemies in game are no more than bullet sponges and no amount of damage you can do per shot will alleviate that spongy feel due to the fact that their HP or armor is scaled accordingly to what we can put out by the devs. It's a form of artificial difficulty. The enemies are more resilient to harm and thus more difficult, but in reality they just take a little bit more to kill rather than requiring we think on our feet and perform any type of intelligent adaptation. 

[(PSN)KaxMcc]

Sliding/Coptoring:

 

As far as sliding goes, I'd like it if the momentum boost was removed. It's become sort of a reflex to spam the slide button while running as an attempt to increase speed and IMO it looks really goofy. I'd rather have a bit of acceleration added to sprinting instead.

 

As for coptering...

 

If coptering is to stay, it should have its animation completely changed and it should be unaffected by weapons' attack speed.

 

All weapons should have the same coptering potential and none of them should fling you across the universe the way 1.3atkspd weapons do.

 

^^pretty much this

 

Pickups

 

The only issue I currently have with pickups is that they don't scale at all. I think HP and ammo should scale depending on your max so they never become useless.

 

Damage levels, Powercreep, and Required Mods

 

I'm of the opinion that they should be moved not removed. All of the mods that are required should at the very least be applied separately so that players can have a little more room for diversity in the mod system.

 

I feel like modding should be more about crafting a unique playstyle for each weapon/frame rather than just straight vertical progression. Currently the mod system is trying to do both but the latter will always take preference over the former since it is essential to progression.

 

I'd say either move the damage progression to have it scale with weapon level or just give progressive mods thier own slots so they don't overlap with the rest.

[geninrising]

I think limbo needs a revision or something as for the last question...

Really Limbo just got a change on his ult that makes him AWESOME! Of course I guess some people don't like synergy or a cohesive concept implementation.

[Tyrian3k]

when I first looked at this thread, I saw fairly even split between keeping and removing. now it isn't so much. I'm even now suspecting foul play; The notion to make such mods even more powerful was previously a minority feature. less than 10% picked it as an option (and it's an incredibly harmful idea for the game. It's not a funny joke). During the the first 24 hours of the poll the community was pretty split with about 25% on the keep, 10% on the buff, 24% on the remove and 14% on the change. It's changed so very much since then.  

 

Maybe it's a bunch of people without serious thought on the matter, I mean picking the 'keep' option: 

-it's one step above not having an opinion to go with what's current (odd way of thinking, but a lot are like that) 

-They're under the assumption that they won't get compensated for their lost mods. 

 

 

But seriously; Buffing damage mods? There's no way a logical person who's put thought into the subject could vote that way. Maybe it's one of the more fanatical power-tripers making alts to vote on. 

 

Eh, Maybe DE Drew is to blame? 

Yo, Biased much? Work under the assumption that enemies get rebalanced too.

It's pretty much a fact that many people think that these mods would just be removed with no compensation. Just looking at any thread suggesting it reveals that many instantly say no to it because of that very reason. Saying "keep things as they are" is also the typical decision of those who are too lazy to look at discussions.

It should have been made clear from the start what exactly removing damage mods will entail since no one can make an informed decision without the information being presented in the first place.

[Brynslustafir]

This community dissapoints me. People are really too shortsighted to see that the benefits of removing serration completely outweigh the cost. 

[haolee510]

This community dissapoints me. People are really too shortsighted to see that the benefits of removing serration completely outweigh the cost. 

Personally I think removing Serration would only make another mod takes its place.

[Apsalus]

If adjustments to coptering are made, they should not detract from existing movement speeds.  It's bad enough that wall flinging was nerfed in U14.  Those that want to see coptering nerfed/removed, consider this: My speed is my teammates' lifeline.  If you are worried that you are being left behind and can't withstand the mobs, you should haven't come along.  If you want to explore every single nook and cranny in the level at your leisure, find players of like mind or go solo.  Admittedly, I love soloing the daily syndicate missions because it gives me a deeper appreciation of the level designs.  Hidden areas that I had breezed by for months are really cool to find.

 

If pure damage mods are removed, they should be replaced with equal or better passive weapon level bonuses and we should be compensated for the removed mods accordingly.

 

 

This community dissapoints me. People are really too shortsighted to see that the benefits of removing serration completely outweigh the cost. 

DE has explained it very poorly.  I don't think that people see the possibility of getting the benefits of the pure damage mods as passive bonuses to the weapons and instead they just think that they will lose it altogether.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Apsalus

[Brynslustafir]

Personally I think removing Serration would only make another mod takes its place.

No, they would make the damage buff apply to the weapon in increments as it levels up. 

 

They even talked about it on one of the devstreams.

 

As I said, people are too shortsighted to see that removing serration is the better option.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Plasmaface

[Caobie]

This issue with serration is not that it exists and that its required. Thats not the root of the issue. The real issue is the way infinite scaling works and how prevalent and valuable endless missions are. Either endless missions need to be adjusted or made not endless. The best way to handle an enemy that has more health and armor is just flat do more damage, thus serration (and its kind) are necessary to play in the higher end of endless missions and theres the issue.

[haolee510]

No, they would make the damage buff apply to the weapon in increments as it levels up. 

 

They even talked about it on one of the devstreams.

 

As I said, people are too shortsighted to see that removing serration is the better option.

No, what I mean is people want Serration removed to free up a mod slot and makes more varied build. But by removing Serration, another mod would take its place as must-have on builds. Surely you can see what I'm trying to say.

[Brynslustafir]

No, what I mean is people want Serration removed to free up a mod slot and makes more varied build. But by removing Serration, another mod would take its place as must-have on builds. Surely you can see what I'm trying to say.

Nope. There aren't any other mods that are as essential as serration. Multishot comes close, but nothing comes close to multishot. It will give people more freedom to customize their builds. That's all there is too it. 

[Brynslustafir]

This issue with serration is not that it exists and that its required. Thats not the root of the issue. The real issue is the way infinite scaling works and how prevalent and valuable endless missions are. Either endless missions need to be adjusted or made not endless. The best way to handle an enemy that has more health and armor is just flat do more damage, thus serration (and its kind) are necessary to play in the higher end of endless missions and theres the issue.

No, the issue is that serration is so much better than other mods that you've got to be crazy to not use it. Serration needs to be removed and the game needs to be rebalanced around it.