Ember Changes [Post 15.11.0 Megathread]

[Holynight6]

Accelerant cannot chain stun.

About three weeks back I reported it as a bug after testing and finding that not only did it not re stun, but it also didn't refresh he duration of the debuff. It has since been fixed and the stun allowed to occur on refresh of the timer.

[Awazx]

Why the hell would I want a toggle on an ability that last 10 seconds? 

 

 

But the game is full of such things.

[HAYABU5A]

thanks to DE for these changes ! cc is the saving grace 

 

after testing, found a some interesting builds and playstyles

simultaneous burst CC and burst damage, can pop what u need from guard and counter, u use it when u need it at mid to close range

superior to old and boring long duration aoe build, more dynamic gameplay and more options

 

ofc not the most optimal for endgame but doable thanks to cc options and most importantly definitely funsies 

ember is viable and in a good place now 

ppl who still say she isnt need to learn 2 play and/or adjust to changes

[Nosferagon]

I kinda wonder who is in charge of balancing stuff within DE. It's incredible how he/she/they miss the mark so often.

 

So my experience.

 

- Armor and stamina are a nice addition. nothing to say there.

-.Fire Blast - looks nice and the knockdown is appreciated. still needs damage buff.

- World on Fire - Assuming the inability to pick up orbs is a bug, the only difference i see is a built-in natural talent which was poorly done - the animation looks completely out of sync with varying degrees of speed. needs to hit more targets and needs damage buff.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Lone.Hunter.99

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

Ok this is 70 posts out of 167 negative responses to this change to Ember. I found 5(approximately) posts happy about these changes, 5(approximately) posts or so talking about random crap and the rest were discussing various arguments players were having in regards to the changes. 

so incredibly bad, I'm assuming that it will be fixed.

 

It is absolutely clear precisely how the community feels about WOF changes DE Fix it.

 

Ember was my first frame after I started over because I hated Excalibur so much. I have approximately 300 hrs solely on ember prior to her first WOF rework.

 

Every single time you touch Ember she gets WORSE than the previous iteration. STOP IT PLEASE! Statistical buffs and a useless tickle mechanic on her Fireblast do not FIX her problems. In addition ignoring many cries for a change to WOF to bring it CLOSE(not even precisely competitive) with the rest of the AOE damage skills has been entirely ignored by making her ult cost MORE than every other ult in the game. Not only costing more at BASE but costing more due to the ignorance of keeping a duration mechanic at all. I refuse to even take my favorite frame into any game at all since Scott's supposed attempts at QoL improvements(nerfs).

 

I am sick and tired of seeing frames completely relegated to the crapper for 6 months to a year because of ignored feedback and this cannot continue. 

 

edit: 7 more negative posts while I was typing

Yep

 

This is proof that developers do not play their own game.

 

Edit: And also, is the result of fear (yes, fear) that this "wonderful" community has inspired developers in search of paranoid "balance".

That's what I'm getting.also. "Balance" to this community simply means "make it play like all the other games."

 

Look, to help alleviate the continual strife on these forums, let's just do this directly: DE Team, exactly what is your vision for Ember? Is she a caster? Tank? In-between? Sure you can ask a bunch of strangers from all over the world to help you make the game, but without a clear vision of what you want to do, you're just going to generate strife and will get people fighting due to conflicting desires. Maybe you do have a clear vision, but if so, be more forthcoming with it. So, help the players help you - tell them exactly how you see Ember. No need to get into specifics, but set a goal for the community to reach. Then, they can have a good discussion on it and real progress can be made. Human beings must have some type of structure within which to operate - if not, they will then become disorderly.

[MrNonApplicable]

I kinda wonder whose in charge of balancing stuff within DE. It's incredible how he/she/they miss the mark so often.

 

So my experience.

 

- Armor and stamina are a nice addition. nothing to say there.

-.Fire Blast - looks nice and the knockdown is appreciated. still needs damage buff.

- World on Fire - Assuming the inability to pick up orbs is a bug, the only difference i see is a built-in natural talent which was poorly done - the animation looks completely out of sync with varying degrees of speed. still needs damage buff.

I would totally upvote, but I reached my limit in this thread.

[climatiseur]

Alright, after playing a bit and doing some math, I've noticed a few things. First things first, this ability's initial cost is actually 56, not 50, meaning it already costs more than it used to with no mods. For the time being, I'm going to assume this is a bug and continue my math ignoring it.

I've also noticed something else that I think most people have missed. With the energy drain, and the ability to toggle this ability off, it seems like it will cost either the same amount of energy or less because you could just toggle it off, but I think we've all missed something

Before, if I put on a Narrow Minded, the ability lasted about 20 seconds, and cost, at a base, 100 energy. Now, I have to put narrow minded on to get that duration, I still lose the range, but now it costs 150 energy. As soon as you add duration to it, it costs more and more energy, bumping up from what used to be 100 all the way up to 191.

It would make sense to me, to either remove the timer from it and reduce energy drain per second to 4, or just revert the drain and have the ability to toggle it off. Right now the changes to World on Fire in regards to it's energy drain is only a buff to those who have their World On Fire duration bellow 10 seconds, and for everyone else it is a serious nerf, costing significantly more energy to use.

You missed the part that the cost is affected by efficiency.

My world on fire cost 1 energy per second, last for 15 s so in total it only cost me around 50 energy, which is halved of the original.

 

My mistake. further tests needed.

----

It's costing me around 4 energy per second, which means it is affected by efficiency.

Edited January 22, 2015 by climatiseur

[H.Katsura_999]

I just spent a few void mission with Ember and the only thing i really like is the movement speed buff and Fire blast extending wall.

 

The Armor buff is nice but i still too mediocre, I get downed a lot and i spend most of my popping health restores.

 

I know her play style is supposed to revolved around a reckless caster/damage dealer but i find it hard to do because i barely have any EHP to back me up when up against multiple opponents.Take enough hits and your dead.

 

Please remove the LOS in fire blast AOE and make it affected by range mods. It is good as of now but that LOS ruins it, not good for tight corners or places with cover, and having it affected with range mods will make it pretty much a very powerful CC ability unique to ember.

 

As for WoF, I don't use it much, I don't like spamming it and its only good up to a certain level as its damage scale horribly with armor.

Maybe make it proc 100% and cause enemies to panic when ember is at a certain distance from them like 15 meters and that they take more damage when WoF is in effect then i'll use it for its utility.

[00zau]

You missed the part that the cost is affected by efficiency.

My world on fire cost 1 energy per second, last for 15 s so in total it only cost me around 50 energy, which is halved of the original.

And it would have cost you 25-40 energy before the 'buff.'

[xmegarockx]

put fleeting expertice and transient fortitud and boom u have 2.5 second of wof

Edited January 22, 2015 by xmegarockx

[-InV-igo95862]

Don't run duration builds on Ember anymore. If you go over 10 seconds duration your ultimate would cost more then it used to.

 

 

My build is Fleeting Expertise and Stream Line. I just run around the map and stun enemies all around with Accelerant and Fire Blast.

[geninrising]

You missed the part that the cost is affected by efficiency.

My world on fire cost 1 energy per second, last for 15 s so in total it only cost me around 50 energy, which is halved of the original

What are you talking about the original as in most recent iteration prior to this one cost a total, of 25 energy no matter how long you had it modded for. Now it costs much more even on a  full efficiency build.even if math is precisely what you said 50 energy is now twice as much as it previously cost to use it factoring in said efficiency. So now it is not only the least useful ultimate it is also the most expensive SMH

[IlluminaZero]

I was... Pretty shocked too when I tried out Ember. WoF. Nerfed. Why. I can't think of ANYONE that asked for the ability to cancel WoF while maintaining it's low duration... And there are a ridiculous number of suggestions on how to change Ember too.

[RealPandemonium]

World on Fire is worse. The only buff it got was animation speed, but otherwise the ability was nerfed hard.

50 energy cost + 5 energy per-second + 10 second duration = 100 energy cost. No change there... except wait, you can't pick up energy while it's active now! Great buff guys!

 

Why the hell would I want to to toggle it? To be able to pick up energy? I could have done that with the pre-patch World on Fire without having to recast it. Seriously, worst "buff" ever.

Basically they should have just sped up the animation and let us cancel it early instead of making it a false toggle.  I thought they were gonna make it an actual toggle that gained additional efficiency from duration (to accommodate the players who like to run WoF for long periods) but I guess pandering to the misguided demands of people who don't play Ember is a better strategy than actually addressing her issues.  

 

The armor change slightly buffs the melee QT+Rage+LifeStrike build but otherwise doesn't really matter.

 

The sprint speed increase is welcome, but also not essential.

 

The flame wave change gives her some dumb CC but actually makes Fire Blast worse for CC within the initial cast range due to the wave knocking enemies down that would otherwise have been locked in the fire proc animation for 7 seconds.  

 

All of the recent frame revisions (since the Oberon change) have been lazy pandering to the most vocal forum users with no real design taking place and have shown no innovation in terms of ability mechanics (except, of course, shoehorning the Toggle mechanic in ways and places where it doesn't belong.)

Edited January 22, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[ReizoRyuu]

I don't know why DE is so afraid to give Ember a full rework, all these buffs/changes don't really fix any of the issues ember has.

She is far to reliant on every single power mod (strength/duration/range/efficiency) and has to limit herself to a single damage type to get the most out of it.

Sure it's nice that's she's a bit faster now, and the wall of fire itself on fireblast is nice too (even though the damage is pitiful), but all of her abilities rely too much on each other and on too many different type of mods. Sadly she's still by far the worst of the worst.

 

Marvel Heroes is constantly reworking some of their older heroes (52 reviews), simply because they became outdated or didn't work as well as their newer heroes, I mean they recently completely reworked Hulk and he went from "meh-alright" to "just awesome"; again, why is DE so afraid to simply rework this fiery frame, instead of applying bandaids to wounds that need stitching.

Edited January 22, 2015 by ReizoRyuu

[Lancars]

I don't know why DE is so afraid to give Ember a full rework, all these buffs/changes don't really fix any of the issues ember has.

She is far to reliant on every single power mod (strength/duration/range/efficiency) and has to limit herself to a single damage type to get the most out of it.

Sure it's nice that's she's a bit faster now, and the wall of fire itself on fireblast is nice too (even though the damage is pitiful), but all of her abilities rely too much on each other and on too many different type of mods.

 

Marvel Heroes is constantly reworking some of their older heroes (52 reviews), simply because they became outdated or didn't work as well as their newer heroes, I mean they recently completely reworked Hulk and he went from "meh-alright" to "just awesome"; again, why is DE so afraid to simply rework this fiery frame, instead of applying bandaids to wounds that need stitching.

Hmmm i have to agree with you. Why can't they be reworked? What is this thing about making something then leaving it as is? They talked about never wanting to update the older frames and primes to be more up to date. Like they are afraid they will break something.

[Xtenz]

She's almost the same as before anyway . (without taking into account the WoF nerf .........) .

 

Theses changes seems like they have been done in  a rush . This "toggle" WoF is an absolute joke. And none of her real problems were addressed.

 

remove  duration scaling on WoF, make it last as long as you want to with the toggle  , lower the mana consuption per second  (at least a little) .

 

This or any suggestion  that i have done in one of my previous post (#132)  would fix her .. 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/388985-ember-changes-post-15110-megathread/page-7#entry4291866  (long post ..)

Edited January 22, 2015 by Xtenz

[Beef-DeathLegacy]

Make WoF a spell charge stack.

Limit the amount of explosions (charges) with duration determining the interval between explosions. Power strength will determine explosion damage and total count of explosions. WoF will only trigger explosion when there's an enemy in range. Explosion will continue as long as there is a live enemy in range. WoF expires when charges are exhausted.

This will be like leshrac's ability without the duration.

[CHunterX]

I kinda wonder who is in charge of balancing stuff within DE. It's incredible how he/she/they miss the mark so often.

I seriously believe most balance changes, at least for numbers, are simply done by rolling a pair of die.

"Oh, our new Synoid Gammacor's roll came out bad and the community thinks its garbage, better roll again! Oh look, two sixes! Guess it's gonna be the best gun ever now!"

"Kohm came out pretty poorly with snake eyes, lemme try again!" A six and a three, not bad, but lets have another go at it! A six and a five, that's more like it!"

"Panthera is pretty poor on the damage, lets see if we can buff it up. Oh, a six and a one, that's enough to buff it's secondary fire but I guess the primary fire is stuck being piss poor!"

This explains the poor Rakta and Paracyst; they are just cursed with bad luck.

[LisRestall]

To people who doesn't get why WoF was nerfed. It's rather simple.

 

Previously, WoF if you put a 50% duration mod would still cost 100 energy but is extended to 15s.

Currently, WoF if you put a 50% duration mod, the total cost is now 125 energy but is extended to 15s.

 

At first I didn't notice this too as I quickly assumed that at least another 10s duration is only 50 energy but I was wrong.

[Feld5her]

DE please remove duration on WoF.

[geninrising]

To people who doesn't get why WoF was nerfed. It's rather simple.

 

Previously, WoF if you put a 50% duration mod would still cost 100 energy but is extended to 15s.

Currently, WoF if you put a 50% duration mod, the total cost is now 125 energy but is extended to 15s.

 

At first I didn't notice this too as I quickly assumed that at least another 10s duration is only 50 energy but I was wrong.

The point is that it is a nerf blatantly as the ability now costs a substantial amount more than it did previously FOR THE EXACT SAME FUNCTION.

 

This is a slap in the face, end of story. Sheer ignorance to add further costs for no additional functionality.

[Sword_Symphony]

Remove the duration on WOF and the casting cost of Fire Blast to 50. Then Ember will be perfect. 

[RealPandemonium]

The point is that it is a nerf blatantly as the ability now costs a substantial amount more than it did previously FOR THE EXACT SAME FUNCTION.

 

This is a slap in the face, end of story. Sheer ignorance to add further costs for no additional functionality.

He should have said "how" instead of "why."  The two of you are in agreement; he was just explaining the nerf to the uninitiated.  

[geninrising]

So we are at 90 clearly negative posts about this change, approximately 10 positive(5 of which have not tested it at all and so cannot count) and roughly 98 either arguing about things or laughing at how bad the "balance" changes or attempted "buffs" work out(these are mostly pokes at whomever is in charge of balance)

 

Keep in mind I only counted 1st complaints from individuals not multiple posts. Also keep in mind that there are actually many people here that did not dignify the post with a response at all. They just came to laugh and shake there heads at those of us who actually had hope.

Edited January 22, 2015 by geninrising