HibikiGanaha Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 (20 arcanes * 10 for a full stack * 70 helmets) = 14000 arcanes for helmets (20 arcanes * 10 for a full stack * 15 syandanas) = 3000 arcanes for syandanas (I hope you bought extra prime access accessory bundles for extra syandanas) 1 arcane = 1 day Assuming equivalent drop rate (which is not true): 17,000 days of grinding = 46 years 7 months of grinding Assuming void drop table equivalent ratio (15% for commons, 5% for rares) = 17,000 * 3 = 51,000 days of grinding = 139 years 8 months 25 days of grinding Assuming Nightmare mod drop table equivalent ratio (10% for commons, 1% for rares) = 17,000 * 10 = 170,000 days of grinding = 465 years 9 months 5 days of grinding To put this all in perspective, Primed mods got nerfed on their release schedule because it was seen as too much grind from some players. The best core spot is currently 5 cores/10min on average. (2min/core) * (528 core) = 1056 minutes = 17 hours 36 minutes of farming. RIP completionists, this one is actually impossible to complete in one lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayzemet Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 time to buuuy also ill never use those on helmets, only syndanas and then let them to be placed on chest pieces or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlraistlx Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) You're underestimating the power of money. Edited April 3, 2015 by xlraistlx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidPunch Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Not to mention that they will probably dilute the raid drop tables as well since they dilute every drop table Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattledOne Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 There will be more raid missions as time goes by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzkyl Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) If they lowered the cooldown to every 12 or 6 hours it would be much better to get the arcanes you wanted.Or have us at the end of the raid have us select 1 from 5 random arcanes. I waited 24 hours for arcane ICE, gee, thanks DE. Edited April 3, 2015 by cozzi21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverlordMcGeek Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Excellent. Now I have a short-term goal with my immortality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhrekr Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 OP, you have forgotten to give us your best guesstimation for the final number of Arcanes, of helmets and of Syandanas in the game. That number you have there is nice, but it means soo little. Probably by U36 we will have 40 Arcanes, 150 helmets and 35 Syandanas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YourMoms Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 There are like 3-4 arcanes worth assembling - the rest is junk&garbage. Not to mention you need not arcanize every single item ingame. Although I agree to discard this cooldown timer - this is annoying as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSpite Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 RIP completionists, this one is actually impossible to complete in one lifetime. Yes, because "completionists" are mentally well balanced people, and we should all make sure to give them well balanced games so they don't end up with a sniper rifle on a tall tower. Go calculate the times for all items in WoW or Guild Wars 2 or Borderlands 2. I have thousands of runs against The Warrior and still only non OP versions of the Conference Call. Getting all the Legendary/Pearlescent guns in that game might take thousands of years. Get ready for a LOT more things you will never get all of in this game. If you are seriously one of those individuals, I strongly suggest, for the safety of the rest of us, that you go and play something else. I'm surprised there is no complaints about getting to MR30, considering that is well known to be also impossible, and even at current rates of Frames and Guns coming out, not possible for another 4 years or so. Even assuming all Arcanes were possible not in 340 years but in say, 2 years, there is close to zero chance the original players will still be trying to max them. Trivial stuff is still trivial, regardless of possible psychological problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabpsi Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) Well... now the question: How can we change that? Here my solution: (the main tl&dr solutions are marked yellow/orange) I have some ideas: Since we will probably get a Raid for each faction over time (we already got Grineer. We will get infested, corpus, sentients... don't know what will happen to the void, so I won't mention it) we can shorten it a little bit. Soooo for example: We could have 4 raids every day. (1 Grineer, 1 Corpus, 1 Infested, 1 Sentients) That is a little bit better... but not really (it still takes wayyyy toooo much time...srsly, it isn't worrth trying... yet) Now we split the Grineer Arcane droptable ...what do I mean? This: The Grineer Raid gets 6 arcanes: Arcane Acceleration Arcane Agility Arcane Avenger Arcane Avenger Arcane Awakening ARCANE X The Corpus Raid gets 6 arcanes: Arcane Barrier Arcane Deflection Arcane Eruption Arcane Grace Arcane Guardian ARCANE Y The Infested gets 6 arcanes: Arcane Healing Arcane Ice Arcane Nullifier Arcane Phantasm Arcane Pulse ARCANE Z The Sentients the last 6 arcanes: Arcane Rage Arcane Resistance Arcane Strike Arcane Trickery Arcane Victory Arcane Warmth "Wait: Why did you use 6 arcanes for every Raid-type if there are only 20 out there atm?" Because we will probably see more arcanes in the future...just planning ahead...sry^^ Okay, now we have the "we still get a random Arcane at the end of the mission" problem. Since RNG is a big part of this game this will probably not change...but here (still) my idea how to solve that: We could have the option to invest Void Keys and/or Warframe parts at the beginning of each Raid to decide which Arcane we will get as a reward later. Would work, right? Farming Warframe parts is for endgame players not that hard. Yes, it is still a pain and takes a lot of time, but that's Warframe. And we have enough Void keys lying around. OR: After every Raid we get 2 Arcanes instead of 1. Simple thing, doesn't really need an explanation. But it would probably be a little bit too "good" for us...and not both ideas I just wrote together, that isn't possible. And to top it off: The Raid-Cooldown is reduced to 15 hours. Simple and small thing. But it is easier to plan for a group and we can do raids more often (in theory) That's all I can say at the moment (sorry I am to tired and sleepy to do the math right now) Thank you OP for explaining one of the problems we have currently with Arcanes. I hope DE won't make weird droptables and thinks "well, you guys all could trade. It isn't a big deal." (yeaaa sorry, they probably don't think that...I am just tired :s) What's your opinion/thoughts? Do you have any other ideas how to solve this problem? :3 edit: Yes, arcanes shouldn't be easy to obtain. Some of my ideas would make it wayyy toooo eaasyy... I know. But right know, with only 1 Raid and 21 fking arcanes, there is no hope for players. It is annoying. (no matter if the player is a completionist or not, those droptables and chances should work better and don't take over 10 years to get them all) Edited April 4, 2015 by Fabpsi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God_is_a_Cat_Girl Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Doesn't the rare arcanes have less than 1% drop rate though? >_> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabpsi Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Doesn't the rare arcanes have less than 1% drop rate though? >_> Please don't tell me that ;A; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God_is_a_Cat_Girl Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I actually don't see much of a reason for arcanes to have different drop rates when we only have 1 raid, and can only get a reward every 23 hours. Except that it pretty much says "this arcanes are crap, but you can have them all the time because we don't want them, but not the ones that you might want because they can be useful". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) Yes, because "completionists" are mentally well balanced people, and we should all make sure to give them well balanced games so they don't end up with a sniper rifle on a tall tower. Completionists are actually rational ppl which simply enjoy the game and can put time into it. they got some stuff->so they want to get more->they get more stuff->they want even more This cycle continues until they got everything, they want more of what they enjoy, with this example game content. Once you get something you like you crave for more of it, its natural rational and expected. Edited April 3, 2015 by Davoodoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adder9 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Have we all forgotten that the point of a game is to play, rather than to acquire? Sometimes, I think it is more fun to just play with what I have and make it work. That philosophy has me wielding a 6k damage per second Paris (not prime), a 1.5k damage per second Aklex, and a very op pangolin sword. I'm quite content with that set and I have no need to try to reinvent the wheel. Just my opinion; players shouldn't be in agony if they can't grind for it all without paying for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WiiConquered Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I don't get why they need to be stackable. Just let players get the max bonus each time they get one. It's not like we're going to run out of places to put them, but if that's actually a concern let us sell them for tons of credits or Ducats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibikiGanaha Posted April 3, 2015 Author Share Posted April 3, 2015 There will be more raid missions as time goes by. All that does is increase daily grind and reduce the overall grind time. Even with 4 more raids, we are standing at 2 and a half hours of grind per day for the raids and 93 years overall. OP, you have forgotten to give us your best guesstimation for the final number of Arcanes, of helmets and of Syandanas in the game. That number you have there is nice, but it means soo little. Probably by U36 we will have 40 Arcanes, 150 helmets and 35 Syandanas. Add another 200-2000 days for every prime that comes out every 90 days. Add another 200-2000 days for every new syandana and 400-4000 days every time a new frame gets released. Yes, because "completionists" are mentally well balanced people, and we should all make sure to give them well balanced games so they don't end up with a sniper rifle on a tall tower. I strongly suggest, for the safety of the rest of us, that you go and play something else. Might want to get yourself checked out if that is what you think about completionists. This might actually be the worst attempt at trying to discredit someone on the forums that I've ever seen. Do you understand how crazy you sound by making this argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibikiGanaha Posted April 3, 2015 Author Share Posted April 3, 2015 Well... now the question: How can we change that? Here my solution: (the main tl&dr solutions are marked yellow/orange) I have some ideas: Since we will probably get a Raid for each faction over time (we already got Grineer. We will get infested, corpus, sentients... don't know what will happen to the void, so I won't mention it) we can shorten it a little bit. Soooo for example: We could have 4 raids every day. (1 Grineer, 1 Corpus, 1 Infested, 1 Sentients) That is a little bit better... but not really (it still takes wayyyy toooo much time...srsly, it isn't worrth trying... yet) Now we split the Grineer Arcane droptable ...what do I mean? This: The Grineer Raid gets 6 arcanes: Arcane Acceleration Arcane Agility Arcane Avenger Arcane Avenger Arcane Awakening ARCANE X The Corpus Raid gets 6 arcanes: Arcane Barrier Arcane Deflection Arcane Eruption Arcane Grace Arcane Guardian ARCANE Y The Infested gets 6 arcanes: Arcane Healing Arcane Ice Arcane Nullifier Arcane Phantasm Arcane Pulse ARCANE Z The Senients the last 6 arcanes: Arcane Rage Arcane Resistance Arcane Strike Arcane Trickery Arcane Victory Arcane Warmth "Wait: Why did you use 6 arcanes for every Raid-type if there are only 20 out there atm?" Because we will probably see more arcanes in the future...just planning ahead...sry^^ Okay, now we have the "we still get a random Arcane at the end of the mission" problem. Since RNG is a big part of this game this will probably not change...but here (still) my idea how to solve that: We could have the option to invest Void Keys and/or Warframe parts at the beginning of each Raid to decide which Arcane we will get as a reward later. Would work, right? Farming Warframe parts is for endgame players not that hard. Yes, it is still a pain and takes a lot of time, but that's Warframe. And we have enough Void keys lying around. OR: After every Raid we get 2 Arcanes instead of 1. Simple thing, doesn't really need an explanation. But it would probably be a little bit too "good" for us...and not both ideas I just wrote together, that isn't possible. And to top it off: The Raid-Cooldown is reduced to 15 hours. Simple and small thing. But it is easier to plan for a group and we can do raids more often (in theory) That's all I can say at the moment (sorry I am to tired and sleepy to do the math right now) Thank you OP for explaining one of the problems we have currently with Arcanes. I hope DE won't make weird droptables and thinks "well, you guys all could trade. It isn't a big deal." (yeaaa sorry, they probably don't think that...I am just tired :s) What's your opinion/thoughts? Do you have any other ideas how to solve this problem? :3 edit: Yes, arcanes shouldn't be easy to obtain. Some of my ideas would make it wayyy toooo eaasyy... I know. But right know, with only 1 Raid and 21 fking arcanes, there is no hope for players. It is annoying. (no matter if the player is a completionist or not, those droptables and chances should work better and don't take over 10 years to get them all) My idea for fixing this is to remove fusion into cosmetics and add arcane slots. Grey out a slot if an arcane helmet is used. This cuts the grind down to (20 arcanes * 20 for full effect) = 400 days of grind for a full set of arcanes (assuming equal drop chance) or 4000 days (assuming the nightmare mod ratio) Add in more raids getting put into the game and the grind gets reduced to a few months to a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seth Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Warframe is becoming a pinnacle of bad design lately, and raid rewards are just newest add-on. I didn't expect that it would go so far and I've been playing since closed beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabpsi Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) My idea for fixing this is to remove fusion into cosmetics and add arcane slots. Grey out a slot if an arcane helmet is used. yea, a "arcane/stat-slot" for helmets (and Syandanas) together with some smaller adjustments is a good idea too in my opinion^^ In the past there were already a lot of suggestion for that kind of slot...DE never really said "no" ... mhhh... I can't remember why we didn't get a slot.... Anyway, good idea ^-^ Edited April 3, 2015 by Fabpsi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8gbMoreRAM Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 You're underestimating the power of money. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Momaw Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 I'm just going to assume that this thread is some kind of extremely elaborate parody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Why would you ever need this, though? Like, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibikiGanaha Posted April 4, 2015 Author Share Posted April 4, 2015 Why would you ever need this, though? Like, why? So you have freedom to switch between the cosmetics you like without being forced to farm more of the same arcane, or being forced to buy more of the same syandana. Luckily I only use 3 different syandanas, so that's only 3400 plat i need to spend on extras of the ones I already bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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