Do Not Punish People For Not Being Around At Some Point

[Baskakov_Dima]

What I am talking about is the tremendous amount of items that are no longer obtainable but are usable by those who were around at the right time and got them. I can understand it as soon as it's just a pure reskin with no stat boost or purely cosmetic items, but there are a lot of things that affect gameplay. For example: 

 

I. Some auras that were obtainable because of a bug for some time, like Affinity Amp. The bug was fixed, but existing auras were not removed.

II. Arcane helmets. If you were not around at some point of time, you will most likely never get it, unless you spend hours and plat in the chat to get it.

III. Void Trader items, Prime things that don't drop anymore. You need to wait for them to be available again, and it's annoying.

 

Why is this all wrong?

 

Because it means that if you just join the game, you will most likely never see some content that is cut off, and the game isn't as interesting for you.

 

Because if you can't get some stat boost that is cut off, you will not be able to get a build like those who use it, and there is no reason for that. For example, you will never get the +15% power range from Coil Mag helmet.

 

What I suggest is:

 

1) Keep pure cosmetics or items just cosmetically different from what is available to everyone as they are present

2) If something is got by abusing a bug, but is not available to everyone because it's overpowered, it has to be removed. Probably, with some compensation -- for example, in the case of auras, it can be a set of legendary fusion cores.

3) If it is an item that was available for everyone at some point, but is discontinued, like Arcane Helmets, or event items, or sold by a void trader, there are several ways:

 

1. (Probably the best) Create an analogue in terms of gameplay that looks differently from what is discontinued, for example, a reskin of a gun sold by Void trader that you can craft by gaining all the components from a new quest.

2. (Not a good one) Make it possible to get it again as it was available.

3. Make an analogue that gives you same changes in game mechanics, but probably doesn't look or even work like that. For example, a "crystal" that applies same bonuses as some helmet did, doesn't work with an arcane helmet, and doesn't change the way you look like.

4. ...Again, remove it with some compensation to those who owned it...

 

Anyway, the solution has to be acceptable to both the old players who have a lot of such items and the new players who want to get them.

 

P.S. Regarding that "DE has promised to keep something a unique item" -- how many times did DE already break their promises? Are Prime items still just reskins with bonus polarity slots? 

P.P.S. About people "Not being forced to use an arcane helmet" -- you are never forced to use maxed Serration on your rifle, but how many builds really do not include it? None I guess.

 

Thank you for your attention. 

Edited July 22, 2015 by Baskakov_Dima

[Omega-Shadowblade]

First off you realize the void trader cycles through his goods after some point and that his weapons are essentially boosted reskins already right?

[(PSN)excat_56]

So what you are really saying is "Reward NO ONE for playing and supporting the game for a long period of time, because if I can't have it, no one can."

 

I don't have A LOT of those rewards that were only obtainable by limited means before I started playing. I'm still MR19. It doesn't effect my gameplay or progression one bit. 

 

No thanks. 

[Stratego89]

Those auras you mentioned were never even intended to be released- an update ACCIDENTALLY added them to transmutation tables- DE fixed the issue and allowed people to keep them, and they are now not even tradeable.

 

As for the rest of this. "I don't like missing out on limited time stuff, so there shouldn't be any- either add it back in or take limited time stuff I missed away from people and give them something else they wont care about and will become infuriated over."- that is what I read.

 

My point here: DE doesn't punish players for not being around, they reward them for being around.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Stratego89

[MagPrime]

Uh, no. 

 

Rare items and cosmetics are perks and incentives to playing a game.  If everything was available all the time, what would be the point in doing certain events, TA's or even alerts?

 

Not being nit picky but;

Prime Laser Rifle is obtainable in game still, you just have to get Wyrm Prime to have it.

Arcane Helmets are obtainable in game, you just have to use Trade Chat/Trading Post to get them.

Affinity Amp was a bug and you may be able to trade it but good luck finding someone willing to turn lose of it.

[Anatolius]

Those things will never be coming back in sny shape or fashion and it not a punishment for others but a reward for people who were there from the beginning.

You can still trade arcane helms and some of those mods are generally worthless withiut other people who have the same thing. Arcane helms were discontinued for a reason but it would be rude to just outright take things people spent time and money on

[DeMonkey]

DE doesn't punish players for not being around, they reward them for being around.

Couldn't have put it better myself. 

 

Items will come back around like the Strun Wraith. Make sure you're around please, so we don't get another thread about how you're being punished.

 

4. ...Again, remove it with some compensation to those who owned it...

What do you consider a suitable compensation for removing an item, that is currently unobtainable, from the people who put in effort to get it?

[(PSN)excat_56]

What do you consider a suitable compensation for removing an item, that is currently unobtainable, from the people who put in effort to get it?

 

 

Well, it only makes sense to in return reward you with something that will immediately have to be taken away, because other's players can't have it either since they never had what was taken out for exchange in the first place. In the end you'll end up with 1 argon crystal with half a timer (#satire) Sounds like OP wants a vicious cycle of, take everything from everyone that I don't have. 

 

Entitled crybabies - the new trend coming to all your favorite games. 

Edited July 21, 2015 by (PS4)excat_56

[Nomicakes]

This has been one of the most self-centered, non-Excal-Prime-focused (though it was mentioned) "I want what others have" posts I've seen in a while.

 

Just... wow.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Nomicakes

[(XBOX)RIOTx420]

If you weren't there you missed out , it's not the end of the world , it's just a game.

We've all missed out on items from time to time , doesn't affect game play at all.

[magusat999]

One point I want to address - some things are not just cosmetic - like Arcane Helms and Excalibur Prime. In Excalibur Prime's example - that is 4 extra revives for the same type of character. Each Warframe you do not have is a loss of 4 revives that someone else get to have and you don't. They can hypothetically (well actually not hypothetical - realistically) play that much more than you can because they have more "lives" than you. The players with Arcane helms have advantages of not having to mod up a slot (because DE took away helm stats but did not "fix" their complimentary Warframes... its MONEY, BABY!). So in that regard I agree that everything that was ever created should have a conduit - for fairness - that other players can get it too - including Excalibur Prime (okay i'm butt-hurt about Excal Prime cuz I was there when he was offered but I was new and didn't know a damn thing, and thus NEVER GOT HIM! WAAAAHHH!.... ummm excuse me...)..

[VKhaun]

I agree 100%. Segregating content by time or location is stupid and brings nothing to a game.

 

The trick is, you can't just talk about one game. A developer needs credibility when it makes announcements and promises, and a developer needs a good reputation for the sake of all it's games overall. Think about game developers and the reputations they have. Good reputations come from repeatedly making good games. Neutral reputations come from just making games, some good, some bad or even just all meh to bad. Actual bad reputations in the industry only come from two places: handling money and breaking promises.

 

I won't derail to thread #2,483 about the current issue, there's a mega thread about that and more, but DE is always walking the edge of thin ice territory after promising content as exclusive, that belongs to part of an ongoing collection. RPG gaming is full to the brim with semi-competitions who could have overlooked something like "Founder's Excalibur" with some special little trim or something minor on the model, but who will always see their collection of prime gear as missing "Excalibur Prime".

Edited July 21, 2015 by VKhaun

[DietEbolaCola]

Not giving a reason for players to sign in every day.. or ever week.. would be an unsuccessful F2P model.

 

That being said, I do like when they pull stuff out of the vault that I may have missed the first time around..

Edited July 21, 2015 by DietEbolaCola

[-Amaterasu-]

1 Affinity amp was never meant to exist and very few people got it even when it was around

 

2. arcane helmets were removed because people complained about them you can still get them off others

 

3. how is the prime laser rifle even exclusive literally just get a wyrm prime and you get it for free

 

literally nothing you mentioned has any real relevance to game play

[S3EK3R]

Others can't have exclusive stuff, but I can. Also, I want them for free.

 

/thread

[(PSN)PeetSquared]

I've been collecting arcane helmets in trade chat and don't mind things being made unavailable, so this topic really doesn't mean much, to me. However, I've been wondering...why were arcane helmets taken away? They seem a lot of fun for min/max players and collectors alike.

[MagPrime]

One point I want to address - some things are not just cosmetic - like Arcane Helms and Excalibur Prime. In Excalibur Prime's example - that is 4 extra revives for the same type of character. Each Warframe you do not have is a loss of 4 revives that someone else get to have and you don't. They can hypothetically (well actually not hypothetical - realistically) play that much more than you can because they have more "lives" than you. The players with Arcane helms have advantages of not having to mod up a slot (because DE took away helm stats but did not "fix" their complimentary Warframes... its MONEY, BABY!). So in that regard I agree that everything that was ever created should have a conduit - for fairness - that other players can get it too - including Excalibur Prime (okay i'm butt-hurt about Excal Prime cuz I was there when he was offered but I was new and didn't know a damn thing, and thus NEVER GOT HIM! WAAAAHHH!.... ummm excuse me...)..

And for players like me, I have almost every 'frame as well as the plat to purchase more revives.  But seriously, if you're burning a revive or 3 every mission, then you need to re-evaluate your mods, weapons, 'frame choice and play style...

 

And Arcane helms are still obtainable in game, just not from the alert drop tables or appearance tabs.  They aren't so amazing that they replace a fully ranked mod, at most it's half a mod or something.  They aren't really game breaking to have.

[magusat999]

1 Affinity amp was never meant to exist and very few people got it even when it was around

 

2. arcane helmets were removed because people complained about them you can still get them off others

 

3. how is the prime laser rifle even exclusive literally just get a wyrm prime and you get it for free

 

literally nothing you mentioned has any real relevance to game play

Excluding number 3 which you are correct about - the rest is wrong.

 

1) Affinity Amp amp have been a mistake - but it's still around. This it should be available to everyone or removed altogether.

 

2) Arcane Helmets were removed - not because people complained, but for DE's own reasons - just like everything else they nerf / remove there are internal reasons (like MONEY) and they use the few whiners as a poor excuse to do something they had already planned on doing anyway.

Also removed because people complained does not address the point. They are still around, people still have them and NO everyone does not have access because when one is sold it isn't a duplicate - only one person can have the same arcane helm, and new ones are not being offered. "Get them off others" does not solve the argument - if there were 4 million people playing when stats were removed and they became "arcane", and 11 million people are playing now - how do the extra 7 million "Get them off others" if no new ones are being offered???

[H3dsh0t]

Excluding number 3 which you are correct about - the rest is wrong.

 

1) Affinity Amp amp have been a mistake - but it's still around. This it should be available to everyone or removed altogether.

 

2) Arcane Helmets were removed - not because people complained, but for DE's own reasons - just like everything else they nerf / remove there are internal reasons (like MONEY) and they use the few whiners as a poor excuse to do something they had already planned on doing anyway.

Also removed because people complained does not address the point. They are still around, people still have them and NO everyone does not have access because when one is sold it isn't a duplicate - only one person can have the same arcane helm, and new ones are not being offered. "Get them off others" does not solve the argument - if there were 4 million people playing when stats were removed and they became "arcane", and 11 million people are playing now - how do the extra 7 million "Get them off others" if no new ones are being offered???

 

Actually you are the one that is wrong about arcane helmets. People complained because they were being forced to wear specific helmets to get the stat boosts, rather than it being a cosmetic decision. Please get the facts right before you start saying it was all down to money, because it was listening to the playerbase that got them removed.

 

Also there are 32 frames in the game that are obtainable, if you have gone through 128 revives in 24 hours, I think you need to re-evaluate how you play rather than complain that you can't use those extra 4.

[magusat999]

And for players like me, I have almost every 'frame as well as the plat to purchase more revives.  But seriously, if you're burning a revive or 3 every mission, then you need to re-evaluate your mods, weapons, 'frame choice and play style...

 

And Arcane helms are still obtainable in game, just not from the alert drop tables or appearance tabs.  They aren't so amazing that they replace a fully ranked mod, at most it's half a mod or something.  They aren't really game breaking to have.

Your trying to "excuse away" everything, but just because it doesn't matter to you personally does not make it trivial to another person. Buying revives is not the same as having an in-game character with revives and everything that goes with the character. Otherwise we could just have one Warframe and buy up a bunch of revives - I mean what's the point of having all the Warframes (which I also have, save for Excal Prime) when you can just have a whole bunch of revives/ AND the person with the extra Warframe can buy revives too - so that is not a replacement for them having that advantage over you.

 

When is the last time you saw an Alert for Arcane Helms? Arcane Helms - not the ones that look like them but have no stat increase. There are a finite amount of Arcane helms available, based on a time when Warframe had less than half the user base, That is not enough for everyone to have a chance at getting them. And they do not replicate - one helm is one helm - when you sell it you lose it and someone else has it. Trivializing whether they are important to have or not is speaking for other people - you don't know if its game breaking or not for someone else, or how important it is for another player - has no bearing on the point of things should be offered to everyone at some point.

 

People shouldn't use their preferences to dictate what other people should or should not have - that's up to the individual, not someone living outside of another person's body. Just let things be available and if what you think is so then it wont change anything because people "won't need it" - right??? (that's for a couple of people, not just Noamuth)...

[magusat999]

Actually you are the one that is wrong about arcane helmets. People complained because they were being forced to wear specific helmets to get the stat boosts, rather than it being a cosmetic decision. Please get the facts right before you start saying it was all down to money, because it was listening to the playerbase that got them removed.

 

Also there are 32 frames in the game that are obtainable, if you have gone through 128 revives in 24 hours, I think you need to re-evaluate how you play rather than complain that you can't use those extra 4.

For one - nobody was 'forced" to wear them. People could always not wear one of those helms if they chose. They were complaining about SOME helms because they did not have the stats that they should have had. I WAS THERE. That point is completely wrong. Get YOUR facts straight, they removed them because of internal reasons and used the player base as an excuse - same stuff they pull to this day. the very fact that you said "forced" shows you have no idea what you are talking about. It was a choice and you did not have to wear them.

 

And secondly, making that silly point about "burning through revives" as if you don't understand what "hypothetical" means, or what potential is, is just childish and ridiculous. it adds nothing to the argument an is just insulting. Since you don't understand, evidently, it is the POTENTIAL to use a number of revives more than anyone who cannot obtain those frames. If you have 32 and I have 31, then you have POTENTIAL to use 128 revives without paying for more (hi Noamuth) to my 124. The point isn't arguing about whether a person should use the revives and it is begging the question to dissolve it down to something irrelevant and inapplicable as you keep trying with that inane point.

[(PSN)PeetSquared]

So wait...arcane helmets were removed because people were complaining about being "forced" into using them?

Smh, sorry...that is just lame. Way to ruin the party, folks. I fail to see how anything was being forced upon anyone. It's a min/max stat, at best. I wish people had just left well enough alone so some of us newer players could get them without spending hundreds in plat.

Edit...don't wanna come off as salty. I'm not and I don't mind hunting the helmets through trade chat but I think that is a lame reasoning for their removal.

Edited July 21, 2015 by (PS4)PeetSquared

[taiiat]

Arcane Helmets should have been stripped of their stats and those stats moved to an interesting 'specialization' feature, i agree. then you'd have a new gameplay system to interest Players. i.e. more content.

however, Affinity Amp and other unreleased Mods are simply not released yet.

in the meantime, you don't need to worry about it, because all of the unreleased Mods are not particularly impressive. very little reason to want them in the first place, considering their stats.

Prime Laser Rifle...

uh, you get Prime Laser Rifle when you craft Wyrm Prime.

in general however, Players should have access to things that would be interesting content. not having access to it means there's less content available.

i'm glad more Players have access to Strun Wraith now. i've enjoyed it in this Damage System for a long time. (in the previous Damage System it was just super high Damage, which while made it incredibly effective, was still rather boring). more Players being able to enjoy that is all the better.

should others not be able to get it? absolutely not. because i'm not an 'entitled crybaby' that thinks they're a special snowflake and anything i have others shouldn't be able to have.

same goes for any other item i have. if it's interesting and either is different Playstyles or allows some Playstyles to be more practical in application, i want everyone to have access to it. more content, and more fun for everyone.

nobody was 'forced" to wear them. People could always not wear one of those helms if they chose.

please stop being wrong.

people had legitimate complaints because some of the Cosmetic Helmets they liked, had Stats that were a downgrade in all situations.

why should they get a Stat downgrade to use a Cosmetic they like?

Cosmetics and Stats being tied to each other is always a big nono.

similarly, if you don't didn't like the Helmet that is statistically superior in every way, you're trapped again.

go yell your Illuminati bulls... somewhere else.

we don't want to hear conspiracy theories.

i'm sure there's some nuts that think Aliens are on earth that you could talk to and have a good time with.

the rest of us know how and why things happened. the truth. you can peddle conspiracy theories somewhere that isn't here. /b/ might be a good place for that.

Edited July 21, 2015 by taiiat

[(PSN)PeetSquared]

Damn, a lil salty? It's a game, calm down.

[MagPrime]

For one - nobody was 'forced" to wear them. People could always not wear one of those helms if they chose. They were complaining about SOME helms because they did not have the stats that they should have had. I WAS THERE. That point is completely wrong. Get YOUR facts straight, they removed them because of internal reasons and used the player base as an excuse - same stuff they pull to this day. the very fact that you said "forced" shows you have no idea what you are talking about. It was a choice and you did not have to wear them.

 

And secondly, making that silly point about "burning through revives" as if you don't understand what "hypothetical" means, or what potential is, is just childish and ridiculous. it adds nothing to the argument an is just insulting. Since you don't understand, evidently, it is the POTENTIAL to use a number of revives more than anyone who cannot obtain those frames. If you have 32 and I have 31, then you have POTENTIAL to use 128 revives without paying for more (hi Noamuth) to my 124. The point isn't arguing about whether a person should use the revives and it is begging the question to dissolve it down to something irrelevant and inapplicable as you keep trying with that inane point.

Hi Magu.

 

I'm sorry but this entire discussion about releasing Excal Prime because Founders get more revives than us is inane.  You would have had a better chance if you had used the missing affinity tactic and you could have lumped in the rest of the Founders weapons and the closed beta gear.  Being able to use a hypothetical situation doesn't make you an adult, mature or a 'grown up' it just means you understand the concept and are able to put it into practice, it's something my 3 year old nephew is able to do regarding cookies, naps, puppies and video games.  Try again.

 

And no, people weren't literally forced to use the Arcanes but they felt they had to use them to get viable builds.  And no, the complaints weren't the sole reason they were removed, they were taken out because in conjunction with the complaints, DE felt they had approached cosmetics with enhancements incorrectly.  So, they were removed from the drop tables and later Arcane Enhancements were added because they were more inline with DE's vision.

 

Which brings me to another point.  Arcane Enhancements are easily accessible either by plat or playing the raid, why is anyone bothering with the arcane helms anymore?  The A.E.'s are supposedly better than the helms and again, easier to obtain.  So, why make such a fuss over something that is obsolete and outclassed?  Oh right.  "I want it."