(PSN)Azure_King03 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Honestly I find it hard to blame people, my last run was golden cores and forma blueprints, actually my last three runs have been forma blueprints for wave 20... People are going to want to do something the fastest and most efficient. Even when mesa is finally nerfed people will just switch frames to something like equinox, and then people will have some new complains about that since the whole, oh you just sit there doing nothing won't really be a viable complaint. While I agree that the player should have been fine without a mesa, mesa and frost are staples of defense and most people expect them in the game. Honestly only you yourself are ruining the fun of the game for yourself, you don't need to play with mesa and when you host a defense game you could clearly say no mesa and have a mesa less run, but at the end of the day it's just like the trading in this game, if you can get the better run and not feel bad about it, then why not right...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DxAdder Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Some people will always Min/Max and we have been given the tools( Mods) to do so. A group before they start need to be clear HOW they want to play the mission. If the want to do the mission in the shortest amount of time with the least effort so be in, it there choice. How this got turned into yet another Mesa /Draco bash ... I guess we need atleast two or three threads on this all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f3llyn Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 What an overreaching statement. Loki doesn't have any damage skills and he's top tier. So what if he is? One good frame that doesn't have abilities that damage (directly) doesn't refute what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraank Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 You are allowing bias to come into the picture. Just because the OP can put on a good show about being a victim just as much as the other guy. also this just in. The majority of the world doesn't speak english. I'm not. At least i didn't intend to. Even if OP is not telling us all the details about what happened. It's simply not the point of the topic to blame anyone for what he/anyone else has /hasn't done. Maybe this story is just his personal tip of the iceberg. Maybe it was the 42th time that something similar happend to him. we dont know. Still, everyone knows punctuation, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil_m3nace Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I'm not. At least i didn't intend to. Even if OP is not telling us all the details about what happened. It's simply not the point of the topic to blame anyone for what he/anyone else has /hasn't done. Maybe this story is just his personal tip of the iceberg. Maybe it was the 42th time that something similar happend to him. we dont know. Still, everyone knows punctuation, right? Punctuation changes according to the language that is spoken, and some dont even use it like thai or tamil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabolicalHamSandwich Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 That's true, telling other people how to spend their free time is altogether wrong. However, it speaks to the wellness of the game when 3 out of 4 squad members have nothing to do in a defense mission where a Mesa is present. It's fair to assume that some newer players, not playing the Mesa, will get the wrong impression of the overall game from that experience. I know mesa should get a rework for the sake of all those that complain but I also see an issue with why people complain. Like I was talking in chat once and the topic was mesa. The reasons why they didn't like her or draco wasn't because it interfered with they game. It was just because they didn't like the way those people played. That was the consensus and nobody said anything or went any deeper then that. The whole "I don't like it because it's not how I want them to play" is my issue. The moment I mentioned I do me and let them worry about them and why people worry about others the convo ended quite quickly in changed agreement afterwards and changed onto something else~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnicius Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-skimmer- Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Solutions have been proposed to fix mesa already, just make her ult similar to excals, except gunkata-like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fari Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 To be fair, defense didn't used to be so weirdly slow. But yeah, ehh... Mesa is boring, Speed Nova is the only absolute must in defense imo. Mesa reliance is stupid. Honestly though just gotta kick those guys and find people who don't mind as much, there's plenty who don't necessarily want Mesa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DxAdder Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Or we could just Peacemaker as is... and address how is Mesa able to gain so much energy to use this ability all the time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Shodian Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Imo play the way you want to play. There are certain frames that are better at different objectives but that doesn't mean you should change your style if you're not going to have fun. I really only change frames when I see my current setup just isn't working, other than that I pick who I like and have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaMicahZay Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 +1 for the OP. I'm in the camp of tenno who doesn't care for damage skills. All damage skills should be reworked to not do damage or removed all together. Weapons should be a tenno's only source of offense. I know that's not a popular opinion, but it's how I feel. I don't fully disagree with your point, but I find it ironic you have an Ember Prime pofile picture. However also think that while we need to be less reliant on damage abilities, frankly, they are quite fun to use when not too OP. And that is what the game is ultimately about, fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon1951 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I am MR16 and I have to admit I have always found it amusing when people request certain frames for the earlier defense missions like T1-3, the simple fact is, and the OP may not like this, but the whole point of the defense mission is to protect the pod and if you have four people watch each corner and use their powers wisely you can do it with pretty much any four frames. There is absolutely no reason, unless your gathering resources or energy, that you should be running all over the place willy nilly because if you do two things happen, you leave your corner open which means someone has to cover two corners and if you get downed away from the pod that means someone has to go revive you which mean you now leave two corners open. No matter if I'm using Equinox or Excalibur or Frost and I do what I just pointed out, with the exception of maybe Mesa, I will always come out of a defense mission with more kills than any team mates I play with who are running around. I have never really seen any reason to go after enemies in a defense mission when there whole logic is to destroy the pod and they have to come to you any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorsContraction Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I feel ya OP happens to me ALL THE TIME. Not like occasionally, but all the time. Whenever I host the mission I bring whatever frame I want, people will cry and moan about it and I say "Hey you don't want to run with me, find another person running the key.". A good chunk of them will leave the lobby right there and then, and good riddance. I miss actually having a group that is playing the game. Yeah you still need frost for defense, but that's the only frame I'd argue that is absolutely necsesary if you're planning to do many waves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Atroxium Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Why didnt he go Mesa then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolake Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I'm still amazed that peacemaker hasn't been changed yet. How can there be a frame with an ult that takes away 95% of the interaction from the other players in the squad? Peacemaker literally reduces the game to 3D tower defense where the other three players need to keep the aimbot turret supplied so the enemies don't come down their predetermined paths to destroy your base. Yep. Except tower defense needs much more strategy and interaction. Mesa just makes the game play itself. To OP and others: dont make this into a personal flame, it's not helping and will only get your posts/thread deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CheaterMcCheat Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Mesa yes, Excalibur no. Leave him alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Yep. Except tower defense needs much more strategy and interaction. Mesa just makes the game play itself. To OP and others: dont make this into a personal flame, it's not helping and will only get your posts/thread deleted. When Mesa never existed, people just press the lasers on the harder waves. That is how people got to 80+ waves back then. Void defence never had much strategy at all. Frost + Nova and you are pretty much set. And oh, old Excalibur or Loki + Booben if you wanted to face roll harder. What strategy ? It was Frost 3 + Nova 4 + CC and press lasers if there are too many of them. No strategy at all. Mesa just removes the Nova and CC equation until enemies were getting harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WereFowl Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I think allot of people are annoyed at Mesa because it's not a fun final ability (stand in one spot and keep clicking - woo gameplay!) especially when you compare it to excalibur's exalted blade. I can see why people might not like the fact that there are allot more excaliburs around, however that's mostly because exalted blade is one of the few tier 4 skills that are actually fun to use and is more than just 'press 4 to win' (even with the completely unnecessary nerf coming) I can see why people want to have the ideal team when grinding a mission for a rare part as the RNG in this game is frustrating as hell, but on the other hand this is a game people are supposed to be playing for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolake Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 When Mesa never existed, people just press the lasers on the harder waves. That is how people got to 80+ waves back then. Void defence never had much strategy at all. Frost + Nova and you are pretty much set. And oh, old Excalibur or Loki + Booben if you wanted to face roll harder. What strategy ? It was Frost 3 + Nova 4 + CC and press lasers if there are too many of them. No strategy at all. Mesa just removes the Nova and CC equation until enemies were getting harder. You already described strategies that require many actions from the players, like shooting mobs - the main part of it. With Mesa you just afk while the aimbot turret does everything. She removes the very core shooter gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoakinBlackforge Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 HAHA nice THAT GUY that you post of is me and i dont really care what you all say... u can call me scrub u can call me unskilled but im playing this game for more then a 1.5 years and i like doing missions in fast way why would i waste time in mission if i can do it in 20 min? why to do it in 50 min? you just dont get it thats your problem... i could report you for words that you said but im not like you mate im not crying for little things... and for all hates you can go and cry to your mothers ... THIS IS GAME WHICH I LIKE TO PLAY AND I LIKE PLAYING IT AS I WANT THIS IS WHAT I ENJOY U CANT MAKE ME DO WHAT I DONT WANT TO... Bunch of crying kids... This isnt your game, you derpling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) You already described strategies that require many actions from the players, like shooting mobs - the main part of it. With Mesa you just afk while the aimbot turret does everything. She removes the very core shooter gameplay. Shooting at a bunch of near stationary mobs with shred isn't much strategy. It takes as much effort as a Mesa player holding down his left mouse key. And back then, Mprime was instant cast and hits everything within range. Edited August 19, 2015 by fatpig84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) You already described strategies that require many actions from the players, like shooting mobs - the main part of it. With Mesa you just afk while the aimbot turret does everything. She removes the very core shooter gameplay. that is true only for lower level without nullifiers and can apply to more frames other than mesa Edited August 19, 2015 by ..atom.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubbi Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 No. Don't blame the frames. Blame the players. And the broken gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakatchi Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 It wasnt mesa, it was the player. You couldve put him in any frame and it would've turned out the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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