Proposed Multishot Change Mentioned In Devstream 59 [Megathread]

[WilYen]

The three rifle and shotgun physical damage mods, and the pistol/rifle/melee/shotgun pure status mods. The melee physical damage mods are reasonably okay (they're cheap to put in and most melee weapons are very heavily biased towards one damage type), and the +60% pistol ones are... I wouldn't say great but at least there are some weapons where you might put them in because they're not totally useless.

 

So actually, 10.

 

so why can't they tie these to base damage

Edited September 5, 2015 by WilYen

[(XBOX)SlyTYRANT]

Dude, we don't do enough damage sometimes. Even my favorite weapon, good ole mutli-forma'd Tonkor's damage lowers around level 60 enemies, forcing me to either climb and run desperate circles or cowardly run back to extraction. Letting them consume our ammo reserves in our guns is going to make is into gimps, aside from the star chart is concerned.

This ^

Also ancients with damage reduction make you use so much extra ammo.

Just a nerf so they can get us to use snipers more.

Edited September 5, 2015 by (XB1)SlyTYRANT

[low1991]

Quality includes balancing and fixing bugs.

They never promised "quality" to mean only things we'd like.

Year of Quality. With Quality referring to more RNG grind feast and more bullet sponge enemies with weaken player' DPS.

 

While I'm against this, I do understand the reasoning behind it. So if this does come to fruition I won't be too upset about it.

You'r weird. Not being upset when your favorite gun (all of it) got Damage per ammo nerf? and now you got to spent more time in xx mission due to crappy ammo efficiency & DPS which you could have completed it in a much lesser time limit?

[Shiichibukai]

Dude, we don't do enough damage sometimes. Even my favorite weapon, good ole mutli-forma'd Tonkor's damage lowers around level 60 enemies, forcing me to either climb and run desperate circles or cowardly run back to extraction. Letting them consume our ammo reserves in our guns is going to make is into gimps, aside from the star chart is concerned. 

Thats not the guns fault. Its their damage 2.0 stuff. They need to tweak that anyway for endless runs

[(PSN)wonderwoman814]

well its not what i would like but i can totally see why they are doing it. people will complain becuase they have to have  MAXIMUM POWAH!!! LOL personally .. i like a challenge but i would like them to re balance some guns to work with the changes as well with the nerf.

[Marthrym]

+1 OP. Enemy scaling has always been one of the main issues in Warframe. It prevents fair balance for both us and the AI, and it breaks early-to-mid game, turning it into a joke, while making "endgame" utterly unfair and broken unless you CC the Hell out of everything to prevent getting insta-gibbed, no matter the firepower you bring with you.

Many players have been begging the devs to get their sh!t together and make a viable scaling system for almost 2 years now. We're still waiting. Meanwhile, they keep adding stuff on top of a completely broken base. It's a freaking miracle the entire edifice hasn't crumbled under its own weight yet...

[(XBOX)Pumba315]

They did state they will be reworking ammo and enemy scaling.

Actually, they stated there would be some weapon rebalancing. The problem is, if they want to keep damage roughly the same, while nerfing multishot, they either have to drastically buff damage, or drastically buff clip size and increase your ammo pool, or both. Anything less than this will result in a loss of damage and weapon viability.

The multishot nerf would not be so bad, IF they also announced that they were going to be balancing enemy scaling to the new damage output of weapons. But they didn't. They just said, "People want us to fix mandatory mods. So we're nerfing multishot and tweaking some weapons."

[ZawaniTokiwa]

WHY DE WHY??? STOP PLZ

[low1991]

...tweaking some weapons."

Ok... GG WF.

Time to wait and see which weapon getting tweaked after multi-shot nerf. Only these tweaked weapon will be viable from then on.

[Skaleek]

Some people just want to see the world burn.

[shut]

Dark Souls is very differently designed from Warframe and is, although something people love, probably not a good example to use for difficulty scaling because the way it works is that literally every enemy and encounter is very finely hand-tuned. Dark Souls-style difficulty doesn't work in a game which has random enemy squad composition and map design.

 

I don't think there's really a problem with Warframe being Too Easy outside of the veterans with tons of mods and game experience, or a problem with Warframe being Too Hard-it's more a problem that the difficulty curve is more or less bonkers, with the difference between 'comfortably crushing things,' 'being challenged,' and 'oh god run' being like, 5 minutes in a survival.

 

I'm not asking that stat scaling be removed almost entirely (stats should still have a role in this game; otherwise we'd be left without a real sense of "progression" in addition to the issues that you mentioned). But I think that it would be good to make the game more similar to Dark Souls in that it'll easier to be nicely challenged from a mission, without enemies being too strong or too weak.

(For the sake of clarification, I'm not asking for DS-level difficulty, either. That would be a fiasco for this game.)

 

Like you say, the "being challenged" sweet spot exists for less than, like, 5 minutes in a typical Survival mission, and even the "comfortably crushing things" timeframe is small compared to the awful "blowing the map apart but trying not to fall asleep" timeframe that most Survival missions have. Basically, what I want is for those enjoyable timeframes to take up more of the Survival mission, and this can be accomplished if the scaling is made less stupid. 

Your scaling suggestion in the OP would greatly alleviate this issue, while of course solving the issues that you bring up in the OP.

Edited September 5, 2015 by SortaRandom

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

Stupid! And not in any way a priority.

[RedVoidDragon]

As someone who's spent a lot of money on this game I'd like to give this idea my own personal two big thumbs down. Seriously DE stop listening to the armchair devs *@##$ing about "mandatory mods" because unless you make all mods just plain suck there will always be mandatory mods. This change will either make it mandatory not to use multi shot, which in the case of primaries will be a ~47.7% damage reduction to the weapons that use it, or people will swap out an element for an ammo mutation which will still be a damage reduction, but a much smaller one depending on how many elements they were able to stack in the first place (worst case 32.2% for going from two down to one element, and 19.6% from 4 down to 3). Unless you of course change how ammo is gained for these massive magazine weapons, in which case you're not actually changing anything so why go through the circus here?

 

Leave well enough alone, there's nothing here to "win" except with a, admittedly vocal, minority that doesn't really understand what they're asking for anyway other than "I want multishot gone so I can use this other mod that would be mandatory if multishot didn't exist"

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

No more ammo restocking for new missions also. If you finish your last mission with 214 billets you have 214 billets to start the next mission. Unless you pay plat to restock.

[Vaxillian]

Ballyhoo.

[Xlazius]

If they're up for the task of changing weapon balance and/or enemy scaling accordingly, to make it so it still takes the same amount of time and effort to kill said enemies then i couldn't care less about the change, hell i'd be happy to have an extra slot or two. If they put in a serious amount of testing into it after the re-balance then sure it could work out fine. That said however I'm not going to get my hopes up, don't see them putting so much effort into something they probably deem so trivial. 

[peekitea]

As someone who's spent a lot of money on this game I'd like to give this idea my own personal two big thumbs down. Seriously DE stop listening to the armchair devs *@##$ing about "mandatory mods" because unless you make all mods just plain suck there will always be mandatory mods. This change will either make it mandatory not to use multi shot, which in the case of primaries will be a ~47.7% damage reduction to the weapons that use it, or people will swap out an element for an ammo mutation which will still be a damage reduction, but a much smaller one depending on how many elements they were able to stack in the first place (worst case 32.2% for going from two down to one element, and 19.6% from 4 down to 3). Unless you of course change how ammo is gained for these massive magazine weapons, in which case you're not actually changing anything so why go through the circus here?

 

Leave well enough alone, there's nothing here to "win" except with a, admittedly vocal, minority that doesn't really understand what they're asking for anyway other than "I want multishot gone so I can use this other mod that would be mandatory if multishot didn't exist"

[peekitea]

No more ammo restocking for new missions also. If you finish your last mission with 214 billets you have 214 billets to start the next mission. Unless you pay plat to restock.

 

That's just horrible. But very very plausible at this point. 

[IggySnow]

Didn't they say they thaught putting a utility slot on weapons for things like ammo capacity, mag size, etc was a cool idea? If so they better roll that out with this change. Slightly lessen the blow of this major nerf.

[Demoonic]

I probably won't quit the game for good, but if this change goes in I'll probably stop playing for a long while until its changed back. This isn't coptering all over again, this is actually nonsensical.  

[DaftMeat]

say hello to the new mandatory mods

  

^ + Ammo restore kits can't support my ammo draining-thirsting guns.

If you're not dropping several at once for burst weapons, you're not doing it right.

:3

[Culaio]

Dude, we don't do enough damage sometimes. Even my favorite weapon, good ole mutli-forma'd Tonkor's damage lowers around level 60 enemies, forcing me to either climb and run desperate circles or cowardly run back to extraction. Letting them consume our ammo reserves in our guns is going to make is into gimps, aside from the star chart is concerned. 

 

I said that because there are guys, defending this change saying that we can already kill lvl 100+ enemies in 1-2 seconds, and I have no idea how someone does that, maybe if they have full team with corrosive projection.

 

people who  always take full corrosive team to endless missions have no right to defend this change, since they are reason why DE thinks we are doing "too much damage", which is a total BS >_>, they dont care about people who like to play with random players.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Culaio

[peekitea]

Make your mind up.

 

We don't have enough information. There was mention of changing the ammo pools of some weapons. They didn't say anything about what they are going to do to enemies, or how they would balance weapons in other ways to make this change viable. Granted they didn't say they were going to do those things, but they didn't immediately say they weren't either.

 

Sadly, I expect nothing different from a gaming forum. If they slapped that change, and nothing else on us, with no warning, I would expect ranting, from the people who tested it out as well as the people who hadn't. That's my point. If they had actually implemented this change, on it's own, right now, people would be playing it, and finding it was probably bad, after actual testing. Ergo, actual feedback could/ would be presented, and needed changes looked into and applied. You are assuming that this is the only thing they will do, and not thinking about other changes they could possibly make to make the change viable.

Then it's a good thing there are two sides to this. Of course you should expect nothing different, that's life. Some people like oranges, others think it's about the nastiest food there is. If that happened I would expect more ranting. But they do make changes they do not really tell us about until after, so I would not really put it passed them. A lot of that happens in hotfixes. The point I am getting across is there is no need to complain about people complaining about this. I personally spend money on this game. I spend my time. People actually pay for things in this game because they want to save time, and that money results in people funding money in this game called Warframe. That money goes to the devs who work on this game and decide what and what does not happen. The fact that they do have a dev stream invokes discussion among the player base, which is why they probably do it. They want us to know exactly what it is we are getting into. Which leads to threads like this. Who cares if people are upset. Really, who cares. As far as you know, when it is all said and done, after the nerf, the same people who spent money on this game are going to be gone a few days after, and you will have your happy community of like minded individuals who think that DE can do no wrong in the development in the game. Forbid that anyone mentions at any time about if they dislike something you do, because we must stay positive all the time, even when it is our money being put into this game. Our time. Our resources. I do not think DE is funded by anyone else in the long run. They don't have any other job (that I know of) other than making video games.

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

Bye you wont be missed. 

 

On topic: Use ammo mutation - problem solved. Im already using it on almost all weapons and STILL deal damage especially for guns like amprex or soma hell even the synoid gammacor im using the ammo mutation. This is an idea they put out it will get tweaked yada yada yada. Stop freaking out already beside they will give ammo hungry weapons some sort of buff as they mentioned so PLEASE for the love of god.

 

Calm down take a chill pill and wait for the actual update as im pretty sure ppl are just overly exaggerating as usual.

 

If you had read the post, you would see why your response has already been covered.

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

I do not know why you spend time in telling people they shouldn't complain. In fact, I find it funny. Make ten more threads. Please.

Dat