Proposed Multishot Change Mentioned In Devstream 59 [Megathread]

[peekitea]

Quality includes balancing and fixing bugs.

 

They never promised "quality" to mean only things we'd like.

Of course not. Only the things they like.

[Culaio]

It will not happen.

DE explicitly said that they don't like how we are dealing too much damage.

Why would they make changes that won't change the status quo ?

 

problem is that we dont really want to do too much damage, but only this type of damage works with screwed up scaling of enemies in endless modes. this change will hurt ALOT people who can do only solo of endless missions because of bad internet connection like me(i am fine in non-endless missions because missions like this most of the time end before I get disconnected). since I can take only ONE corrosive projection, I already have problem suriving after 35 min in, and I use boltor prime with best possible build. after 30 minute I am going throuh ammo very quickly, and use multiple ammo restores so this change will hurt people like me the most.

 

So this change is VERY bad idea until they fix scaling of enemies, this change will only make full team with corrosive projection mandatory, something people who solo endless missions cant do.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Culaio

[DxAdder]

The End is Here !

 

I think they would be better off just getting rid of the mod for all weapons and be done with it. 

 

Any any case for all those rage quitting please mail me your stuff !

Edited September 5, 2015 by DxAdder

[peekitea]

problem is that we dont really want to do too much damage, but only this type of damage works with screwed up scaling of enemies in endless modes. this change will hurt ALOT people who can do only solo of endless missions because of bad internet connection like me(i am fine in non-endless missions because missions like this most of the time end before I get disconnected). since I can take only ONE corrosive projection, I already have problem suriving after 35 min in, and I use boltor prime with best possible build. after 30 minute I am going throuh ammo very quickly, and use multiple ammo restores so this change will hurt people like me the most.

 

So this change is VERY bad idea until they fix scaling of enemies.

 

Dude, we don't do enough damage sometimes. Even my favorite weapon, good ole mutli-forma'd Tonkor's damage lowers around level 60 enemies, forcing me to either climb and run desperate circles or cowardly run back to extraction. Letting them consume our ammo reserves in our guns is going to make is into gimps, aside from the star chart is concerned. 

[DaftMeat]

Eh, I can deal with it.

[Slifar]

 

The issue is that it changes nothing.

It just makes the meta more elitist.

 

 

First, more people will demand Corrosive projection more than ever. This is simple.

Less sustained damage, means we have to maximize whatever we can get.

Right now you can walk into a 40 wave or 60 wave def and even without 4x CP, no one bats an eyelid.

With the changes, you bet 4x CP will be much more heavily enforced.

 

 

More ammo issues also a push towards more power spam frames.

The game is power spammy enough as it is.

Why is DE encouraging more press 4 to boom options when so many people already complain about this ?

 

Again, part of this change is bringing weapon power more in-line with warframe powers in terms of damage and kill-times. I mean, sure, sometimes I see a Saryn just running around spamming her abilities, but she's already been stated for a re-work to help balance out her kit, so I think talking about her spam is a little unfair. And Exalted Blade has already started coming under fire to help bring it a bit more in line, effectively losing out on a 100% damage mod. Sure, it might not be fixed YET, but Rome wasn't built in a day, you know! And at the end of the day, the fact remains that I have a LOT more killrange on my guns, which tend to do more damage anyways, than any warframe will ever have on any of their powers. It's pointless for Saryn to run down the hall to use her 4 if I can just mow everyone down with my Soma Prime before she even gets in range. This happens a bit more often than you'd think! 

 

 

Well, they're going to have to do something drastic with Warframe abilities if they don't want that to be the case, because nerfing guns alone won't change that.  I'm not even at endgame and I can already see that a lot of damage-based abilities (outside of something like Exalted Blade) cost too much and do too little.  Why would I burn 100 energy to take out a handful of guys only to have 100 more enemies immediately charge me?  It's a waste even at my level and I can only imagine it gets worse as you go up.  You could drop multishot from the game entirely and it would change nothing about this.  

Already in the pipelines, good sir! Saryn, Volt, and Valkyr are currently up on the chopping block, and they seem to want to continue adjusting the frames to bring them more in line with Excalibur. 

 

 

This thread does a nice job of summarizing the facts stated in the devstream. This is especially useful for players that heard about the change on a superficial level but didn't realize that DE was rebalancing weapon stats in accordance with the change.

 

However, the cynic in me believes that weapons that already have stat issues within the current system won't be sufficiently compensated for the change in multishot mechanics.  The below assumes the worst-case scenario in which no weapon receives stat changes.

 

-snip-

See, I can fully understand these reservations, and you make good points. 

 

Unfortunately, DE didn't really specify any weapon-specific changes, leaving stuff like that all up to our own opinions on what we think will happen! I'm also not entirely sure how much they can/should change with this one thing. It may end up very well being the case that some weapons get nailed a bit harder than others for a bit, but I like to think that, as with many other major changes, the overall effect will result in a net-gain. But that just seems to be based off of the information as I currently see it, and I certainly don't know everything! 

[Unholyrequiem]

Someone should go make a thread called "Why you should stop making multishot threads."

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

Of course not. Only the things they like.

No only things people whine about. Unfortunately there are loads of very vocal players who cry OP who really have no idea what they are talking about. They see certain abilities, weapons etc wrecking face on the star chart or low level void and call for the nerf stick.

[(XBOX)AyersyBears]

Not really. 

 

 

I do not agree with OP. Even if the changes have not been implemented, it doesn't mean people should stop having an issue with a huge change that affects gameplay mechanics, despite there being little to no information about it. Dubiously so.

 

So you're saying it's a good thing to jump to conclusions then? You've stated people should be allowed to have an issue with something, despite knowing little or nothing about it. 

 

 

 

Very illogical way to think if you ask me.

[rizzimusprime]

For me the problem is not about the practicality or the logic behind the change. And let's be straightforward here, warframe is far from logical. The issue I have is that this is a poor business tactic. The mod when it was released did not work as intended and they knew about it. Did they make an attempt to fix it within a timely manner after release? Sadly the answer is no. They just "rolled with it" as stated in the devstream. So now you have a community that modded and form'd their weapons a specific way. Now everyone will have to change the way they mod which was also quoted in the devstream. Their policy is pretty much if it works and it's fun then nerf it. If it sucks then give it an overhaul and repeat this process. It's one of the oldest business practices in the book. Which in the long run = more profit and $$$ for them. But its also the exact reason why I don't play or support games like that anymore. I shouldn't have to change how I like to play or stop using my favorite gear/loadouts cause you change one or two stats.

Just my 2 cents...please don't crucify me for speaking my mind. There is already enough of that in social media.

This is a post from another thread about this very same topic.

[peekitea]

No only things people whine about. Unfortunately there are loads of very vocal players who cry OP who really have no idea what they are talking about. They see certain abilities, weapons etc wrecking face on the star chart or low level void and call for the nerf stick.

 

I have a feeling a lot of those same people are support this nerf. Shoot, I think personally nothing should be nerfed. Just buff all the stuff that needs a buff and call it a day. That is probably a better way to rectify these situations.

[Rhundis]

While I'm against this, I do understand the reasoning behind it. So if this does come to fruition I won't be too upset about it.

[peekitea]

So you're saying it's a good thing to jump to conclusions then? You've stated people should be allowed to have an issue with something, despite knowing little or nothing about it. 

 

 

 

Very illogical way to think if you ask me.

 

Damn straight they should. We actually have enough information behind it. Multishot consuming ammo. Ammo rate deteriorates. Nerf: The Electric Bogaloo. 

 

And let's say we didn't even know about it, and they just slapped that change onto us. You would expect just as much rants, if not, more so. 

[thewikdone]

The simple question is why.....who would benefit from it...how does it help ANYONE? There is soooooo many more glaring problems that need attention over this. Fix kubrow ai, enemy ai, archwing etc etc etc, I dont understand why they would devote so much time of changing stuff because of one mod.....

[(PSN)killing-stare]

It seems like they're essentially proposing turning multishot mods into Corrupted mods... if the fact there's "no downside" to using them as Glen put it is a problem, then what of Serration, Hornet Strike and Point Blank? It's a slippery slope when you start going down that route. 

I dunno... my gut feeling is that this could be a mistake, but I'd like to see exactly how DE intends to rebalance all of the weapons/enemies/ammo pickups to compensate. 

[EetNotErn]

Please, do quit. Maybe we'll have less knee jerk doom saying around here.

[TheBrsrkr]

Not really.

One is an actual discussion between two or more people who disagree, the other is just screaming that you're right and they're wrong.

[peekitea]

One is an actual discussion between two or more people who disagree, the other is just screaming that you're right and they're wrong.

 

That sounds more like an opinion rather than a real definition. Kinda like how most of this is opinion. Besides, I haven't personally used caps lock on this thread.

 

Not too much.

[Syln]

#"insert random deception feeling here" will kill warframe for me :p

[WilYen]

Eh, I can deal with it.

 

say hello to the new mandatory mods

[(XBOX)SlyTYRANT]

I was getting excited again for warframe but have to say the multishot just reminded me why I was losing instrest.

Seems like a Bungie move when they nerfed autos. I split and never looked back.

[EmptyDevil]

Is that difference in any way at all significant to warrant one over the other?  

 

Have you considered accuracy and recoil?  In the end, recoil will really be the only defining factor as to whether rate of fire or multi-shot is the preferable choice.  For example, a Lex would probably get more mileage from multi-shot than it would from fire rate.  A high RPS weapon might benefit more from rate of fire, especially if you're the type to sweep bullets across an area to kill a group.

 

In the end, if you have a +100% fire rate mode, and a 100% chance for an additional round mod, you're spending the same amount of ammunition to get the same results in nearly the same amount of time.  Hence why people are pointing it out as being "a fire rate mod."  Before, it was like a nightmare version of serration/hornet strike with +status and +crit chance.

 

Frankly, I feel this change is going to just be uninspired.  I would have much preferred a straight nerf to the chance, or simply dividing the damage between each bullet fired without consuming extra ammo, that way the mod is strictly about providing additional crit and status proc chances.

 

Yes, the difference is significant depending on the type of weapon you're putting it on. You pretty much pointed that out in the second question.

 

Players have been asking DE to make mods like multi-shot and Serration less mandatory for all builds on all weapons, So we don't have to feel like we always need this mod. That is exactly what we're getting because then we can put more thought into which mods to use, instead of just slapping on everything for straight damage with no drawbacks.

[Shiichibukai]

Bye you wont be missed. 

 

On topic: Use ammo mutation - problem solved. Im already using it on almost all weapons and STILL deal damage especially for guns like amprex or soma hell even the synoid gammacor im using the ammo mutation. This is an idea they put out it will get tweaked yada yada yada. Stop freaking out already beside they will give ammo hungry weapons some sort of buff as they mentioned so PLEASE for the love of god.

 

Calm down take a chill pill and wait for the actual update as im pretty sure ppl are just overly exaggerating as usual.

[low1991]

say hello to the new mandatory mods

^ + Ammo restore kits can't support my ammo draining-thirsting guns.

[(XBOX)AyersyBears]

Not really. 

 

 

I do not agree with OP. Even if the changes have not been implemented, it doesn't mean people should stop having an issue with a huge change that affects gameplay mechanics, despite there being little to no information about it. Dubiously so.

 

 

Damn straight they should. We actually have enough information behind it. Multishot consuming ammo. Ammo rate deteriorates. Nerf: The Electric Bogaloo. 

 

And let's say we didn't even know about it, and they just slapped that change onto us. You would expect just as much rants, if not, more so. 

 

Make your mind up.

 

We don't have enough information. There was mention of changing the ammo pools of some weapons. They didn't say anything about what they are going to do to enemies, or how they would balance weapons in other ways to make this change viable. Granted they didn't say they were going to do those things, but they didn't immediately say they weren't either.

 

Sadly, I expect nothing different from a gaming forum. If they slapped that change, and nothing else on us, with no warning, I would expect ranting, from the people who tested it out as well as the people who hadn't. That's my point. If they had actually implemented this change, on it's own, right now, people would be playing it, and finding it was probably bad, after actual testing. Ergo, actual feedback could/ would be presented, and needed changes looked into and applied. You are assuming that this is the only thing they will do, and not thinking about other changes they could possibly make to make the change viable.